petition - cats reclassified from vermin

Mo60

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

LOL at the cat hatred comment followed in quick succession by a claim that you haven't insulted anyone :pac: - my cat is curled up on the couch snoring his little head off. For someone who advocates releasing what they deem to be domestic animals into the wild to be killed under the wheels of a car, wrapped around someone's engine, used for 'entertainment' by idiot kids etc, etc, that's a bit rich to be honest :rolleyes:

As for people who are throwing the 'so called pet-lovers' phrase around. I find it laughable that so called pet-lovers do them the injustice of leaving them open to the dangers listed above and have no problem with it whatsoever and so called 'animal welfare' organisations who send cats off to people who openly admit they are not going to keep the animal contained on their property for it's own safety and then have the audacity to accuse anyone else of anything. I've killed a handful of cats in my time due to being unable to avoid them on the road. I find it completely disgusting and abhorrent that other people have forced this situation on me though complete and utter neglect of what are supposed to be members of their immediate family (if they are not then they are their descendants).

Very few of us here will have the benefit of a fast, pain-free death, what on earth is so wrong with us doing this justice for the animals we supposedly love and have done us so much service? Sure why would we do that when we can leave them out high and dry to die a long drawn out painful death, what a great way to end an already miserable and wretched existence for an animal whose ancestors were 'supposedly' one of mankind's greatest companions. Death is the ultimate release from pain and suffering, this is why we afford our own pets this small courtesy when their quality of life falls below a point we deem acceptable. I'm sure you are not going to tell me you would rather watch your your own pets suffer in agony than do them this service so why are so against affording the same courtesy to someone else's abandoned pets? It's completely illogical and the only reason I can think of is that people allow their own emotions to get in the way of doing what is best by the animal, it's no different to stuffing a dog full of chocolate because 'he likes it'.

My cats are also curled up beside me, and when they let me know that they want to go out I will let them outside. This is my choice and the choice of every cat owner that I know. This does not mean that I do not care about my cats, as you are so fond of posting.

I can honestly say that I have never killed a cat when driving, maybe because I am more careful.

Cherry Blossom

boomerang wrote: »

I honestly wasn't trying to catch the poster out, or have him flamed. I just want to understand everyone's point of view. I would have found the answers very helpful. I have read a great deal of impartial, scientific research on feral cats, and so far there is nothing to suggest that they are the vermin they are perceived to be. That's why I'm curious.

His answers would still have got him banned as discussion of hunting methods etc. is against the forum charter. You may be quite happy to accept what he may have said, but there are plenty more who wouldn't. The poster can PM you if he wishes to give you a reply.

(This is a mod post, but doesn't seem appropriate to type it in bold)

It has already been said - no more hunting references, from anyone.

kildare.17hmr

I wonder if the owner of the dead kitten squashed around the corner that my 2 kids saw yesterday out walking the dog with their mother loved it?

Drive as carful as you like but are you gonna swerve to avoid a cat with a car coming the other way? Doubt it

are you serious

I hate working days... I always miss the good posts!!

Mo60

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I wonder if the owner of the dead kitten squashed around the corner that my 2 kids saw yesterday out walking the dog with their mother loved it?

Drive as carful as you like but are you gonna swerve to avoid a cat with a car coming the other way? Doubt it

Never had to swerve to avoid an animal. If I see any animal I slow down, not drive at it as I have seen being done.

kildare.17hmr

Mo60 wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I wonder if the owner of the dead kitten squashed around the corner that my 2 kids saw yesterday out walking the dog with their mother loved it?

Drive as carful as you like but are you gonna swerve to avoid a cat with a car coming the other way? Doubt it

Never had to swerve to avoid an animal. If I see any animal I slow down, not drive at it as I have seen being done.

Yeah but its the ones you dont see till its too late that you will hit, can happen to anyone

Cherry Blossom

Mo60 wrote: »

My cats are also curled up beside me, and when they let me know that they want to go out I will let them outside. This is my choice and the choice of every cat owner that I know. This does not mean that I do not care about my cats, as you are so fond of posting.

I can honestly say that I have never killed a cat when driving, maybe because I am more careful.

The thread is about feral cats, unless you are planning on releasing your pet into the wild, my comment is not directed at you. I used to have the pleasure of living a mile from a lady who at one point was feeding over 50 stray cats. I imagine you haven't killed any because you have less cats. It's not the ones that are killed that cause the problem though, it's the ones that are 'almost' dead. Any idea how much fun it is trying to take a half dead wild cat to a vet at 2am? - None, that's how much and hope you never have to.

Mo60

AJ - sorry I do not understand your last post. How does the fact that I have less cats relate to not having killed any?

boomerang

Limericks wrote: »

My stance is a logical one, trap all feral cats an destroy them. Just as it is done with dogs, it's a working system. I am not saying it is perfect, but it is better then to have them destroy not only themselves with disease but the protected indigenous species which they prey on every day.

I think culling is far more difficult and has less satisfactory results than you'd think. Taking a totally dispassionate view, culling is really a waste of time. Even on Tory Island, where it was carried out to protect the last outpost of the corncrake, repopulation is inevitable without mandatory neutering of pet cats on the island.

I would love to see some hard facts on the damage to Irish wildlife by feral cats. The only study of hunting habits that I'm aware of was carried out in Yorkshire in 1979. Rural and suburban ferals took mainly small mammals such as moles, shrews and mice. Of 500 prey items recorded in the survey, only 25% were birds, and of these the species recorded in greatest numbers were house sparrows, starlings, blackbirds, greenfinches and dunnocks. None of these are birds of conservation concern.

Cherry Blossom

Mo60 wrote: »

AJ - sorry I do not understand your last post. How does the fact that I have less cats relate to not having killed any?

If you frequently have to drive home at 2am in a heavily cat populated area with dense hedges it is inevitable that eventually one is going to appear out of a ditch in between the car and your line of vision.

Traonach

boomerang wrote: »

I think culling is far more difficult and has less satisfactory results than you'd think. Taking a totally dispassionate view, culling is really a waste of time. Even on Tory Island, where it was carried out to protect the last outpost of the corncrake, repopulation is inevitable without mandatory neutering of pet cats on the island.

I would love to see some hard facts on the damage to Irish wildlife by feral cats. The only study of hunting habits that I'm aware of was carried out in Yorkshire in 1979. Rural and suburban ferals took mainly small mammals such as moles, shrews and mice. Of 500 prey items recorded in the survey, only 25% were birds, and of these the species recorded in greatest numbers were house sparrows, starlings, blackbirds, greenfinches and dunnocks. None of these are birds of conservation concern.

House Sparrows Monitoring suggests a severe decline in the UK house sparrow population, recently estimated as dropping by 71 per cent between 1977 and 2008 with substantial declines in both rural and urban populations.
Large decreases also in Starling and Greenfinch numbers.

On Tory Island all the Island's pet cats have been neutered so hopefully there won't be any more feral kittens being born.

boomerang

Thanks for the info, Traonach. I wonder what has caused the decline? Do you have any more info on it?

Traonach

boomerang wrote: »

Thanks for the info, Traonach. I wonder what has caused the decline? Do you have any more info on it?

Exact causes for decline in House Sparrows and Starlings are unknown, but alot of research is being done. In London the humble House sparrow is now very rare:(.
In Greenfinches a disease called trichomonosis is a main cause of declines

boomerang

I am inundated with house sparrows. I fed them all through the hard winters of the last few years, and they love the thatch for nesting. They are right bowsies altogether and I love to hear their chatter.

Discodog

boomerang wrote: »

Thanks for the info, Traonach. I wonder what has caused the decline? Do you have any more info on it?

A shortage of invertebrates to feed the fledglings. Google Kate Vincent as she did the authoritative study on behalf of the RSPB.

It had nothing to do with Cats.

Discodog

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Very few of us here will have the benefit of a fast, pain-free death, what on earth is so wrong with us doing this justice for the animals we supposedly love and have done us so much service?

Because it sets a precedent. If we are not going to try & help any animal lead a fulfilling life then why have them at all ? Why not just kill every stray dog, unwanted horse, feral cat etc etc. It also reinforces the message that killing an animal is an acceptable way to dispose of it. It diminishes life.

I too have taken literally hundreds of ill & injured wild & domestic animals to Vets at all hours of the night. Every effort was made to give them as comfortable a life & recovery as possible. I loved doing it, irrespective of whether the injury was from neglect, because from that moment on you are starting to make things better.

I would be honoured to have such a caring person as a neighbour even if she wasn't able to care for the cats in an ideal way. At least she was making an effort & trying to make a difference.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

I would be honoured to have such a caring person as a neighbour even if she wasn't able to care for the cats in an ideal way. At least she was making an effort & trying to make a difference.

Every one of them had cat flu, infected wounds from fighting, one was missing half of it's face they were all seething with fleas - all as a result of far too many living in close quarters, we've reached new heights now if we are referring to animal hoarders as 'caring' and should feel privileged to have them for neighbours :rolleyes:

Discodog

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Every one of them had cat flu, infected wounds from fighting, one was missing half of it's face they were all seething with fleas - all as a result of far too many living in close quarters, we've reached new heights now if we are referring to animal hoarders as 'caring' and should feel privileged to have them for neighbours :rolleyes:

You are using the past tense. Presumably you got together a few volunteers, maybe a local Vet & SPCA so that the cats were cared for. That's what the people sponsoring this petition do every day.

For a short time I did agree with you regarding wondering if the petition is a good idea. This thread has convinced me that it is.

ziggy23

Here's a photo of one of the ferals I have living in my shed at the moment. She is absoloutly beautiful and spotless it's such a shame that cats like this are going to be culled:(

Odysseus

Pets are different, but ferals will always be vermin to me. This does not mean however that they should be mistreated.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

You are using the past tense. Presumably you got together a few volunteers, maybe a local Vet & SPCA so that the cats were cared for. That's what the people sponsoring this petition do every day.

For a short time I did agree with you regarding wondering if the petition is a good idea. This thread has convinced me that it is.

The problem existed for a period of about 30 years between the time the woman's brother passed away and she passed away despite her nephew constantly trying to reason with her and limit the numbers but he also wanted to deal with his own way, didn't want strangers upsetting her.:rolleyes: It started with one cat and escalated, it was not resolved or controlled until she died other than the constant removal of any kittens that were found before she knew about them.

angelfire9

ziggy23 wrote: »

Here's a photo of one of the ferals I have living in my shed at the moment. She is absoloutly beautiful and spotless it's such a shame that cats like this are going to be culled:(

I have a feral living almost permanently in our cat house (the €200 insulated and heated cat house that my cat turned his nose up at) in the cold snap winter 2010-2011 my cat house housed 3 feral kitties that I tried to TNR and failed with 2 out of the 3
I don't know at this stage if you can call a cat who is permanently resident a feral?? He stays there every night but is gone by morning
He is wormed (via sneaky feeding) but not vaccinated or flea treated

boomerang

Angelfire, there is a tasteless flea treatment that you can add to his food - it's called Capstar.

http://www.medicanimal.com/setSessionLocale/product?product_id=167&newLocale=en_GB&gclid=CNDv18D_r64CFcpB4Qodc0ozQQ

Don't worry too much about him not being vaccinated - he has probably been exposed to some of the strains of cat flu by now, and will have some level of resistance to them. He will have to take his chances with panleukopaenia, but it's kittens that are most at risk, not adult cats.

I still don't understand why some of us consider feral cats vermin. What does vermin mean, really?

cos!!

Vermin - various animals or insects, that are destructive, annoying or injurious to health.

I think feral cats tick those boxes?

Discodog

boomerang wrote: »

I still don't understand why some of us consider feral cats vermin. What does vermin mean, really?

There are plenty of dictionary definitions but the legal definition in Ireland seems to imply that it is any animal that doesn't have protected status. Our law works on the principle that it is OK to kill any animal that isn't protected.
So we make the protected animals an exception.

If the proposed AWB follows that of other countries then this will be reversed. In other words all animals will be protected unless they are specifically excluded.

cos!! wrote: »

Vermin - various animals or insects, that are destructive, annoying or injurious to health.

I think feral cats tick those boxes?

So do puppies