What a spineless nation...

Sir Gallagher

Weren't a good proportion of the fraud claims made found to be invalid. So basically a lot of the people ringing up have been proven to be nosey bastards who dont know what said 'fraudster' is entitled to. People just flinging mud at the wall and seeing wat sticks, shams.

BarackPyjama

irelandspurs wrote: »

Thanks i like to do my bit.:p

While you're saving society, maybe you can help out with the billions or Euro of cash and trillions of Euro in natural resources being stolen from our country and do something to rid this country of industrial scale political corruption. If you solve that, then perhaps we'll have the resources to improve a health system close to the point of collapse. Or feed and give shelter to the homeless. Or have the means to protect the most vulnerable in our society.

No, no. Sorry. Forget what I said. You just rat on your unemployed neighbour and everything will be fine. :rolleyes:

rgmmg

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

Changing for the worse? Ireland has always been a nation of curtain twitchers. "Jaysus did you see yer wan at number 42 - and her a widower" etc, etc. I'm not surprised at all

irelandspurs

BarackPyjama wrote: »

While you're saving society, maybe you can help out with the billions or Euro of cash and trillions of Euro in natural resources being stolen from our country and do something to rid this country of industrial scale political corruption. If you solve that, then perhaps we'll have the resources to improve a health system close to the point of collapse. Or feed and give shelter to the homeless. Or have the means to protect the most vulnerable in our society.

No, no. Sorry. Forget what I said. You just rat on your unemployed neighbour and everything will be fine. :rolleyes:

Lol i was being sarcastic ,I'm unemployed myself.

Corruptable

Only 33% of the claims actually lead anywhere (from RTE News yesterday).

There's no doubt the rise in reports is simply due to increasing bitterness. Few people seemed to have a problem with those who were working and claiming during the good times, in fact, few people seemed to be concerned with other people at all during those years.

Unfortunately just because the archetypal "Jacinta" uses her children's allowance to pay for her hit doesn't mean that it's welfare fraud as such, however, if she's working in addition to receiving Job Seekers then fair enough.

stupidusername

Corruptable wrote: »

Only 33% of the claims actually lead anywhere (from RTE News yesterday).

And what most seem to be forgetting is that only 21% of the money saved was from cutting off fraudsters,the rest was due to staff errors!!

Show Time

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

More like the hard working people have said enough to single mums claiming money for being on their own with the partner shacked up with her and the five kids. Or the dossers who do fcuk all but are still in the pub three and four nights a week. About time the good folks of Ireland said enough.

SEPT 23 1989

The elites in this country are laughing at you

leggit

sounds like the op got ratted on, tough break man. Are they making you pay back all the money you stole??

cloptrop

Show Time wrote: »

Or the dossers who do fcuk all but are still in the pub three and four nights a week. About time the good folks of Ireland said enough.

These dossers are not benefit cheats they just spend their benefits on drink . Instead of things like clothes , heating etc . You cant report them for that.

leggit wrote: »

sounds like the op got ratted on, tough break man. Are they making you pay back all the money you stole??

When you re caught you just have to pay a fiver a week back ,
HERES WHT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE REPORTS YOU
You get caught working on the sly .
Your boss gets rid of you cause he cant afford to pay your insurance , holidays , prsi etc./ you stop looking for nixers.
You stay on the dole , you pay a fiver week back if you are found guilty.

THE REAL PROBLEM is employers paying people into the hand. But no punishment will be done to these. So many people are told now they can have a job and get paid into the hand or have no job . Simple. Any of my friends in the domestic building trade working , one girl I know works in a creche , cleaners and restaurant staff are all being hired now into the hand . THE DOLE CHEATS are just people that want to work but have no other option . If they tell the boss they wont work into the hand the boss will get someone else. Theres alot of people on here that talk **** they no nothing about just so they can bash single mothers or people on the scratcher.
Every hundred you pay in prsi your boss will pay around 4 or 5 hundred in prsi and insurance etc. These are the real cheats not a chap thats told to work for 250 a week and collect his 200 dole and sure thats a weeks wages for you.

abouttobebanned

Some of the replies to this thread, especially on page 1 (as usual, the thanks whores), make me want to commit violence. Kfallon, if you had've been near me when I read your post I would have introduced you to a baseball bat.

Mod note: banned

Corruptable

cloptrop wrote: »

These dossers are not benefit cheats they just spend their benefits on drink . Instead of things like clothes , heating etc . You cant report them for that.

Correct. I'd actually love to read some of the reports, as they're probably from people who haven't a clue what's fraud and what's not.

ejmaztec

They shouldn't lock up the fraudsters, because it would probably cost more to keep them in prison.

They should shoot the thieving fiddling fuckers instead.

Stiffler2

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

Don't worry about all these posters comments Jewett, I understand you completely. The glass they are looking through appears to be opaque instead of being clear. kunt-tree is a mess, no one gives a $h!t and the Irish don't have the balls to stand up to the gubberment so turn on eachother instead.

Users are mentioning the words "stealing" here.
What about my usc charge, water charges, house charge etc...

That is the gubberment stealing from me because they can't pay back the money "they stole" in the first place.

Now ppl are turning on eachother to save a measily €180 a week.
Yet they have forgotten about the €176 billion of debt that we're in.

Don't worry though, nothing will change and it will only get worse becuase everyone's testicles fell off in the late 90's

ChippingSodbury

jewett wrote: »

Yes, where were all of these ethical upstanding individuals during the height of the Boom?

I am getting a really getting to see a different side to the Irish now. Happy-go-lucky when they had cash in their pockets but quickly turn bitter and vindictive when they get poor. This is the first time in my life where I have seen this sort of collective vindictiveness and spitefulness shown by the Irish.

I would imagine this weekend some Irish will be exchanging pleasantries with their neighbors over their hedge or on the footpaths of our towns and suburbs.(while at the same time questioning themselves whether or not that neighbor has reported them). Lovely state for the country to be in.

Meanwhile, the NAMA millionaires, fat-cat politicians, corrupt councillors
and our other "elite" will continue to defraud the system their way.
If the dole-cheats are shoplifting the state , our elite is doing an ongoing and systematic heist with truckloads of Euro. But there are no phones lines or emails addresses setup for people to shop them.

Lots of the "elite" bankers/ developers etc. knew each other so using this logic, they couldn't snitch on each other or they might meet in the boardroom some day and wonder "was he the one who ratted me out to Financial Regulator?". We might not be in the mess we're in now if some of them had told the truth, but of course, you're not allowed to rat out your mates/ neighbours/ acquaintances...

Going after the "elite" is the right thing to do, as is going after the SW cheats.

All citizens are equal, some are more equal than others (or so it seems)

kfallon

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Some of the replies to this thread, especially on page 1 (as usual, the thanks whores), make me want to commit violence. Kfallon, if you had've been near me when I read your post I would have introduced you to a baseball bat.

Of course you would have :rolleyes:

44leto

I think this is a healthy development, why do people have this sense of entitlement here, the social welfare system is meant to be an assistance to those that really need it. It is not meant to be an extra income.

So here my proposal to encourage good citizenship. A 500 to a 1000 euro anonymously written cheque to anyone who reports people who later were found out to be either welfare or a tax cheats.

With that reward even detective agencies would get interested, fuk em is what I say.

abouttobebanned

kfallon wrote: »

Of course you would have :rolleyes:

I would have. I don't like you.

Hawk Wing 2

robman60 wrote: »

So you're okay with people fraudelently claiming YOUR tax money every week? Would you not report it if someone was stealing €188 from you each week? It's effectively stealing my money and your money, I know I'd report it.

your tax money is paying off German and French bankers, the IMF and Europe are paying the publci sector wages and dole at the moment

44leto

Hawk Wing 2 wrote: »

your tax money is paying off German and French bankers, the IMF and Europe are paying the publci sector wages and dole at the moment

As a lot of my income is paying off loans,,,but hey,, I did borrow that money.

tayto lover

dark crystal wrote: »

Unjust laws or not, people are breaking them.

Would you report a person who broke any of the laws I mentioned?

Yes.

kfallon

abouttobebanned wrote: »

I would have. I don't like you.

Do you do your Keyboard Warrior thing as a hobby or is it full time??

abouttobebanned

Actually hate keyboard warriors. Just kidding bucko, I'm sure you're salt of the earth ;-)

dark crystal

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes.

If so, good luck to you is all I can say.

Heads up, people, tayto lover wants to wash the streets of scummy illegal music and film downloaders, tv licence evaders and discounted cigarette smokers.

I think would all sleep better in our beds knowing these criminals are being handcuffed and marched away from the rest of us good, upstanding, law abiding citizens.

Now where is my phone, I'm going to rat out my neighbours for that unlicenced dog of theirs.....

Freddie59

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

Don't see the problem. There are people who have been working and signing for years. Claiming money paid in taxes by you and I. In the good times we all pushed it to one side. But I suppose there are now people (working) who are on the breadline and have decided that it's no longer acceptable for their neighbour to earn more than them and enjoy a lavish lifestyle at their expense.

Sign of the times really.

dark crystal

Freddie59 wrote: »

Don't see the problem. There are people who have been working and signing for years. Claiming money paid in taxes by you and I. In the good times we all pushed it to one side. But I suppose there are now people (working) who are on the breadline and have decided that it's no longer acceptable for their neighbour to earn more than them and enjoy a lavish lifestyle at their expense.

Sign of the times really.

I honestly don't know anyone on welfare who lives a lavish lifestyle.

If some of these working people ever lost their jobs and had to live on €188, they might be a trifle more sympathetic to those who might feel the need to supplement their meagre income by doing a nixer or two, or childminding on the side.

They get a hell of a lot less than Enda Kenny or Joan Burton, who both supplemented their already lavish salaries by taking up to €50,000 in extra payments from an opposition party expenses fund. By the way, that's money paid by us taxpayers too.

But hey, that's perfectly legal, so let's rat on the neighbours instead.

donegal_road

I mentioned this before on a similar thread that got locked, I think its worth mentioning again..

All TV3 or any other station has to do is make a program about dole cheats, then the system can sit back and watch the country police itself.

TV3's documentary claimed that the money saved would reverse the impending cuts in future budgets... which is nonsense. I have a feeling that this claim was made in order to prompt the public into action ie. reporting welfare fraud.

The amount recovered by cracking down on welfare fraud would cover NAMA and the Golden Circle's dinner bill in the Shelbourne for a week. They are the real reason we are facing enormous cuts, not dole cheats.. I think that the figure of €188 per week is more comprehenible to Joe public, than say €30,000,000,000 for example

jewett

donegal_road wrote: »

The amount recovered by cracking down on welfare fraud would cover NAMA and the Golden Circle's dinner bill in the Shelbourne for a week. They are the real reason we are facing enormous cuts, not dole cheats.. I think that the figure of €188 per week is more comprehenible to Joe public, than say €30,000,000,000 for example

I think the problem with a lot of people is they simply don't understand the maths. Its like when Lenihan and Cowen signed the bailout agreement first there was a remarkable lack of discontent from the Irish. I think they just did not understand the implications at the time.


Meanwhile, "€188 a week" is easy to understand for any reader of the Star or listener to Liveline.


"Near...Far away" anybody...

mikom

donegal_road wrote: »

The amount recovered by cracking down on welfare fraud would cover NAMA and the Golden Circle's dinner bill in the Shelbourne for a week. They are the real reason we are facing enormous cuts, not dole cheats.. I think that the figure of €188 per week is more comprehenible to Joe public, than say €30,000,000,000 for example

Quoted for truth.

RTE Prime Time reported that NAMA is spending over €1m per day on all the costs associated with conducting its business. The figures quoted are as follows:

> €25m on Legal Fees
> €10m on Professional Fees
> €75m on Insolvency Costs
> €78m given to banks to manage loans
> €44m Staff Costs

...coming in at more than €1m per working day. Reporter said the figures were ex VAT.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/182096-nama-spending-1m-per-working-day-prime-time.html

People can't see past their own noses in this country.
True patriots dob in their neighbors.......... but remember, what you see as ok today may be reportable tomorrow.

Liam Byrne

jewett wrote: »

donegal_road wrote: »

The amount recovered by cracking down on welfare fraud would cover NAMA and the Golden Circle's dinner bill in the Shelbourne for a week. They are the real reason we are facing enormous cuts, not dole cheats.. I think that the figure of €188 per week is more comprehenible to Joe public, than say €30,000,000,000 for example

I think the problem with a lot of people is they simply don't understand the maths. Its like when Lenihan and Cowen signed the bailout agreement first there was a remarkable lack of discontent from the Irish. I think they just did not understand the implications at the time.


Meanwhile, "€188 a week" is easy to understand for any reader of the Star or listener to Liveline.


"Near...Far away" anybody...

I think part of the problem is that decent folk are being ripped off by spongers at every end of the scale, and since we can't seem to do much about the ones at the "top" level (look where voting in those that promised to fix it got us) we have to have the satisfaction of doing SOMETHING to limit the effects of at least some who contribute nothing to society.

But yes - I only wish the will was there to go after EVERYONE who wilfully and consciously waste and rip off our money.

donegal_road

sorry I forgot to mention that with interest, it will probably amount to over €50,000,000,000

RainbowRose81

donegal_road wrote: »

I mentioned this before on a similar thread that got locked, I think its worth mentioning again..

All TV3 or any other station has to do is make a program about dole cheats, then the system can sit back and watch the country police itself.

TV3's documentary claimed that the money saved would reverse the impending cuts in future budgets... which is nonsense. I have a feeling that this claim was made in order to prompt the public into action ie. reporting welfare fraud.

The amount recovered by cracking down on welfare fraud would cover NAMA and the Golden Circle's dinner bill in the Shelbourne for a week. They are the real reason we are facing enormous cuts, not dole cheats.. I think that the figure of €188 per week is more comprehenible to Joe public, than say €30,000,000,000 for example

Well here wealthy frauds criminals are treated more fairly than ordinary fraud criminals and the consequnces of their crime is minimal compared to the white collar fraud criminals who blew hundreds of billions. The law in this country is in favour of the middle class and higher because the law itself and criminals justice system is created by the higher classes, you don't see many barristers from marginised areas because they are not given equal oppertunities in life to meet their social and educational needs.

ItsNoAlias

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Well said. We are a Society (still). It is everybody's duty to play by the rules. We all had our part to play in this country's downfall, some more than others, it must be said, so there's no point in blaming politicians/ senior civil servants/ bankers/ developers. Most people accepted pay rises, racked up fair amounts of debt, bought houses/ cars/ holidays/ tans/ beer etc. etc.
I'm sick of the "it was someone else's fault" attitude as long as the someone else isn't an ordinary Joe like themselves. SW fraud is adding to the problem and is a crime: it's black and white. And to the previous poster who says sure it's only 0.1% of the SW budget: that's a hell of a lot of money that could be put to good use in other areas. Yes, the SW staff need to stop making mistakes as well but fixing the two issues are not mutually exclusive.

I have a problem with the We all had our part to play part of your comment. I have no debts, own no property, and paid taxes for the last 10 years. Some people who are adults now in 2012, were teenagers in 2007. It is no their/our fault that the country is in the state that its in. Never had a chance to vote as they weren't old enough.

I am not saying Please think of the children but your arguement is not valid for these individuals. It is a cop out

Rabidlamb

Meh, if I can get my unemployed neighbour to mind my 2 kids for €200 a week it's a win win.
She can meet her mortgage & I can justify staying in work.
Neither of us become a burden on the state.

Freddie59

dark crystal wrote: »

I honestly don't know anyone on welfare who lives a lavish lifestyle.

If some of these working people ever lost their jobs and had to live on €188, they might be a trifle more sympathetic to those who might feel the need to supplement their meagre income by doing a nixer or two, or childminding on the side.

They get a hell of a lot less than Enda Kenny or Joan Burton, who both supplemented their already lavish salaries by taking up to €50,000 in extra payments from an opposition party expenses fund. By the way, that's money paid by us taxpayers too.

But hey, that's perfectly legal, so let's rat on the neighbours instead.

Read my post fully. What I said was that people are getting sick of those who are working AND signing. Before you play the 'rat' card.:rolleyes:

donegal_road

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Meh, if I can get my unemployed neighbour to mind my 2 kids for €200 a week it's a win win.
She can meet her mortgage & I can justify staying in work.
Neither of us become a burden on the state.

very good point

tayto lover

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Meh, if I can get my unemployed neighbour to mind my 2 kids for €200 a week it's a win win.
She can meet her mortgage & I can justify staying in work.
Neither of us become a burden on the state.

If your unemployed neighbour pays tax on what you give her then the state wins too. We all win.

ChippingSodbury

ItsNoAlias wrote: »

I have a problem with the We all had our part to play part of your comment. I have no debts, own no property, and paid taxes for the last 10 years. Some people who are adults now in 2012, were teenagers in 2007. It is no their/our fault that the country is in the state that its in. Never had a chance to vote as they weren't old enough.

I am not saying Please think of the children but your arguement is not valid for these individuals. It is a cop out

Yes, you're correct: maybe I should have said "almost all of us". But the main point is that anyone breaking the law needs to be held account, whether or not they contributed to the country's downfall or not. SW fraud is wrong, however the facts come to light. A previous poster quoted a figure of 50,000,000,000 for the size of the hole and sure €188 isn't going to make any difference: €648m will make a difference. Is the debt figure still a big one? Yes, but it's smaller by €648m

up for anything

tayto lover wrote: »

It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.

You should have stopped at the word crime. You ruined what you said for me by that needless qualification.

Red_Wake

Classic Irish talk.

Know a lad who's doing something wrong? Sure he's a grand lad, I wouldn't rat him out.

Corruption occurs at every level of society, the above Irish tendency is why it is so endemic.

EGAR

I think in some of the cases SW officers are asleep at the wheel.

If someone has 4 kids and has been on Lone Parent since the first kid was born, yet the father of all four is the same guy, even named on the birth certs, then I really wonder why no alarm bells ring.

The whole system needs an overhaul IMHO.

ChippingSodbury

Red_Wake wrote: »

Classic Irish talk.

Know a lad who's doing something wrong? Sure he's a grand lad, I wouldn't rat him out.

Corruption occurs at every level of society, the above Irish tendency is why it is so endemic.

Ah now. Sure, it's only a crime when it's "them" doing it.

Freddie59

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Yes, you're correct: maybe I should have said "almost all of us". But the main point is that anyone breaking the law needs to be held account, whether or not they contributed to the country's downfall or not. SW fraud is wrong, however the facts come to light. A previous poster quoted a figure of 50,000,000,000 for the size of the hole and sure €188 isn't going to make any difference: €648m will make a difference. Is the debt figure still a big one? Yes, but it's smaller by €648m

You have to start somewhere. Look after the pennies, etc.

lividduck

Me and the OH are up at 6 every morning to go to work, seldom home before 6 in the evening, I dont work and pay tax to benifit Social Welfare fraudsters, I dont care who they are if I know someone is cheating the system, I report them, simple as!

lividduck

lividduck wrote: »

Me and the OH are up at 6 every morning to go to work, seldom home before 6 in the evening, I dont work and pay tax to benifit Social Welfare fraudsters, I dont care who they are if I know someone is cheating the system, I report them, simple as!

Totally agree. It seems we cant do anything about the banks and the corruption in politics except vote them out and welcome the next set of gangsters. At least we can do something about this. There is people totally taking the piss and a message needs to be sent.

Rabidlamb

tayto lover wrote: »

If your unemployed neighbour pays tax on what you give her then the state wins too. We all win.

Childminding is the most unpoliceable of professions.
They tried to get unofficial childminders to register a few years ago but about .001% did.
The thought of submitting yourself for HSE audits & submitting tax returns scared everyone off, next there'd public liability insurance & first aid courses to worry about.
If you earned over a threshold you became liable for tax which would just be passed onto the parents.
They in turn would just go to the next girl down the road who needed a few quid.
What about the family lucky enough to still live next to Granny who babysits for free, should the parents pay BIK for their great saving.
Childminding is minefield that is impossible to bring into the tax net.

CarrickMcJoe

Problem is that Social Services turned a blind eye to fraud during the good times, now that we are broke they want us to do the job that they are being paid to do, but were too friggin lazy to.

AudreyHepburn

What exactly is wrong with reporting fraud? Do we not have a duty to report crime?

I spent 6 months unemployed, trying my damnest to get work and unable to get the dole due to the means test. It galled me, and still does, that I was expected to depend upon my parents in my twenties when there are 1000s of fit well people who are well able to work but too lazy to do so in the dole queue, not to mention to those claiming entitlements they don't need.

Why should protect these people? They are no better than theives.

uberalles

A friend of a friend used to take phone calls reporting dole fraud in the UK.
A lot of the time it was a jealous neighbour ..... “and she got new curtains last week as well and she on the dole ......... “

gerryo777

EGAR wrote: »

I think in some of the cases SW officers are asleep at the wheel.

If someone has 4 kids and has been on Lone Parent since the first kid was born, yet the father of all four is the same guy, even named on the birth certs, then I really wonder why no alarm bells ring.

The whole system needs an overhaul IMHO.

It's like a timewarp on here. Late 80's into early 90's it was the same.
The 'unmarried mothers' had the country f***ed.
This thread is bull****e, voyeurism is alive and well in little old Ireland.