Moving from Sweden to Ireland

Zifnab

Hi!

Me and my wife are considering to move from Sweden maybe some time 2013-14.
And we got our eyes on Waterford, Ireland.

How's the labormarket in Waterford?
Housing prices (average)?
Things to do with the kids?
Any kind of children/toddler groups?
Schools, costs?
business climate?
(It is a typical swedish trait to never expand or develop if it can be avoided, i am very sick and tired of that mentality).
How is the view on entrepeneurs and new businesses?
Is it easy to climb in the career inside a business?
How's the people? Age, young parents? views on moms staying home with their children (i ask because in sweden it is reprihensible that a parent would choose to stay home instead of taking a crappy job).
Howäs the collective traffic? (is that whats it called? bus and train?)

We are both in the age around 25, one kid thats 2 years old and another one on the way (so probably around the ages of 3-4 and 1-2 when we plan to move).
I have a second/third level school education in IT, and i have working experience as a teamleader. and a few university courses in business and economics, thats the probably the road i want to go.
We have a dog and is looking for somewhere close to nature and outside of a city centre.

Help, please?
Atleast to answer some of my questions.

Zifnab

Oh.
One other thing.
How does the school system work?
Do you have to begin at the age of 4?
I am converted catholic, but i do not want to make that choice for my daughter, is unbaptisted children treated differently?
Is the school free?
Is there school uniforms?
Do the students get lunch at school, does it cost them anything?
Etc.

younggrinner

Hi,

You have probably seen this forum but if not there are a number of Swedes who have posted about living in Ireland http://www.familjeliv.se/Forum-0-0/

You'll probably find prices to rent or buy high compared to Sweden (depending on where you're based in Sweden). Childcare will be a lot more expensive than you're used to as well and will eat up most if not all of your take home pay if you want to have the kids there fulltime.

Lycka till!

Max Powers

labour market...not great
housing prices...reasonable
public (collective) transport...not as good as Sweden i imagine but OK
creche and child care....loads of choice, can be a bit expensive
schools...reasonable, low enough cost
stay at home Moms.....brilliant if you afford it
Outdoor stuff...loads of scenery, mountains,coast and beaches around this part of Ireland

Zifnab, most people here would look at Scandanavian countries and think that they have, steadier economies, better off on OECD tables, healthier lifestyle, better healthcare etc.

SillyMcCarthy

Stay where you are my good fellow!

fricatus

How's the labormarket in Waterford? Not great, but there are jobs if you've got suitable skills, or are not too fussy
Housing prices (average)? About €160k for a 3-bed semi, but falling still, so best to rent in the short term
Things to do with the kids? Loads I imagine. Nobody I know with kids seems to have too much trouble finding some sort of activities. GAA (Gaelic) sports are very popular, especially hurling. If you don't know that sport, you soon will if you come to Waterford :-)
Any kind of children/toddler groups? Not my area of expertise, but there seem to be plenty
Schools, costs? No idea
business climate? Business owners complain an awful lot about the constraints on business, but at the same time, Ireland is quite highly ranked in international studies, so how bad can it be? A lot of business here is "who you know" but in America they call that "networking" so I'm not sure it's just an Irish thing, hehe.
(It is a typical swedish trait to never expand or develop if it can be avoided, i am very sick and tired of that mentality).
How is the view on entrepeneurs and new businesses? Positive I would have thought...
Is it easy to climb in the career inside a business? I guess so, if you work hard enough.
How's the people? Age, young parents? views on moms staying home with their children (i ask because in sweden it is reprihensible that a parent would choose to stay home instead of taking a crappy job). Not sure I understand all this question, but I don't think there's any societal pressure for a mother to go out and work, just financial pressure! If you were drawing the dole instead of working, you might hear negative comment, but then again being Swedish, you'd probably get away with it. It would be different if you were African, but the reality is that most people staying at home on the dole are actually Irish...
Howäs the collective traffic? (is that whats it called? bus and train?) Hehe, we call it "public transport" (but let me learn Svensk before I criticise your English!). I would imagine it's much better in Sweden! It's not too bad, but most people find that the easiest thing is just to have your own car. Maybe in Dublin someone could get by using only public transport.

Good luck!

Zifnab

Thanks everyone!

Younggrinner:
i am somewhat aware of that forum, but i'm not interested in swedes experiences and opinions about ireland.
more specifically i'm interested in the opinions of people from ireland, and even more specifically, from Waterford.

Max Powers: Thanks, but just to get some perspective:

Our rent is (3rooms+bathr+kitchen 84m2: 590€ + electricity 50€ = 640€
4km outside of the city center.

I understand that we have cheaper broadband, i pay 27€ for 100/10mb/s

children start school at the age of 6.
elementary school is free (12years), with free lunches, no school uniform.
In universities we pay for our own litterature.

Public transport within the city limits are 2,69€. Busnet is well connected, atleast once every halfhour during weekdays and daytime.
The closes neighbor town is over 150km away.

Labormarket is tough, most jobs available requires 3-4years of university studies in selected fields or if you can concider a part-time nightshift, or coldcalling salesman job.

Stay at home moms are not socially acceptable in Sweden, i beg to differ.
And the society is based on two-income families, so there is rarely an option.

Sure, scandinavia is a wellfare place, if you fit the pattern, sadly we do not, or share the common beliefs with the rest of sweden.
Simply put, we do not feel comfortable here.

Working hard is seldom enough to advance, companies are reluctant to expand or develop the business.
If you want to try to start your own business, or reach for the stars everyone complain and nag about everything that can go wrong, instead of what could go well.

Solair

Well, it's swings and roundabouts.

In terms of how things are organised, Ireland's model would be closer to the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada than to Scandinavia.

Ireland's tax rates are definitely lower than Sweden, but you will find that socially provided services are not as good or that there are no equivalents, so what you don't pay in income tax, you often end up paying in other ways.

Childcare in Ireland is not state funded, other than a one year pre-school grant, and it can be quite expensive by any comparison.

The healthcare system is also not quite as universal, and a lot of people have supplementary private insurance. While this is not hugely expensive (i.e. not like the USA), you would want to factor in a few thousand Euro / year for cover.

The school system is based on a different model to most countries. Primary schools and secondary schools are independent entities. The state funds them, but they organise themselves. So, in most urban areas you will have a choice of different models of school ranging from non-religious Educate Together, to Gaelscoils (Irish-language speaking), to Catholic, to Church of Ireland (anglican) etc etc.
For historical reasons, there is still a very heavy dominance of Catholic schools. That being said, they are publicly funded and they do have to accommodate people different backgrounds.

School is free, but there are sometimes voluntary payments for extra facilities that the state does not cover.

University / other 3rd level education, provided you're an EU citizen, is heavily subsidised but not entirely free. There are significant registration fees involved, but they're not enormous. It's certainly "free" when compared to the USA.

The jobs market very much depends on what kind of job you are looking for. Ireland's in a bit of an economic crisis at the moment. This has had massive impact on some sectors (construction / related industries) and almost no impact on some other sectors e.g. IT. So, depending on what you do, you could find it quite easy to get a job, or almost impossible. It's hard to generalise!

There's definitely a strong entrepreneurial culture and it's heavily encouraged by the state too with considerable support for start-up businesses.

The enterprise culture within businesses is similar to the UK or even the USA tbh. I haven't found it very different. Again, most English-speaking countries tend to share that kind of thing and there are a LOT of US companies with bases here.

Housing is a LOT cheaper than it was, but it can still be quite expensive and because renting is generally seen as a short-term solution here, the range and quality of rental properties can be quite unimpressive. You often find rental properties aren't very family-friendly and most are furnished, which can be a problem if you have your own stuff.

Public transport's OK in urban areas and for long-distance rail etc, but the population is quite scattered (low density), making it impractical in many areas. So, there's quite heavy car-dependence compared to many European countries. In many respects, it's more like part of the United States or Australia/NZ when it comes to transportation.

Road transport is pretty good. There's an extensive motoway network these days, which is pretty large given the size of the country and most major inter-urban roads are quite good. You'll still find lots of bad roads in rural areas though which probably wouldn't be classified as much more than farm access roads in other countries.

Other than that, the standard of living is quite high by any European standards, but it's definitely less like Scandinavia and more like other English-speaking countries in terms of how things are funded and organised.

Telecommunications:
Broadband - excellent in urban areas, 100mbit/s connections are available on cable.
Rural areas perhaps not so good. But, you can get decent connections in most places and you're not utterly dependent on DSL as there are quite a lot of FWA (Fixed-Wireless Access) solutions in rural Ireland these days.
It's probably more expensive than Sweden though.

Have a browse through www.upc.ie/broadband (Cable in Waterford City)
http://www.cablesurf.com/ (Small cable co. in Dungarvan Co. Waterford) up to 120mbit/s
DSL: http://www.eircom.net/broadband/ http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband http://www.digiweb.ie/home/broadband/dsl/ (there are lots more)

Mobile phones:
Lots of choice of networks and relatively good value if you shop around.

I would suggest that you spend a while here renting and looking around before committing to a move. I would suggest that anyone planning on switching country does that regardless of where they're moving to. Moving somewhere totally blind is never a good idea.

Pets: (you need to get a Pet Passport + a lot of up-to-date health information and vaccines for your Dog. Ireland is rabies-free, so there are considerable restrictions on importing pets. You will be required to have all the supporting documentation when you bring your pet into the country. Until quite recently a 6-month quarantine process was required!)

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/pets/

Kotek Besar

Sweden or Waterford? Jobs market?

Stay. Where. You. Are.

BBM77

Zifnab wrote: »

Hi!

Me and my wife are considering to move from Sweden maybe some time 2013-14.
And we got our eyes on Waterford, Ireland.

How's the labormarket in Waterford?
Housing prices (average)?
Things to do with the kids?
Any kind of children/toddler groups?
Schools, costs?
business climate?
(It is a typical swedish trait to never expand or develop if it can be avoided, i am very sick and tired of that mentality).
How is the view on entrepeneurs and new businesses?
Is it easy to climb in the career inside a business?
How's the people? Age, young parents? views on moms staying home with their children (i ask because in sweden it is reprihensible that a parent would choose to stay home instead of taking a crappy job).
Howäs the collective traffic? (is that whats it called? bus and train?)

We are both in the age around 25, one kid thats 2 years old and another one on the way (so probably around the ages of 3-4 and 1-2 when we plan to move).
I have a second/third level school education in IT, and i have working experience as a teamleader. and a few university courses in business and economics, thats the probably the road i want to go.
We have a dog and is looking for somewhere close to nature and outside of a city centre.

Help, please?
Atleast to answer some of my questions.

Out of curiosity what is it about Waterford that attracts you.

Media999

Zifnab wrote: »

Hi!

Me and my wife are considering to move from Sweden maybe some time 2013-14.
And we got our eyes on Waterford, Ireland.

How's the labormarket in Waterford?
Housing prices (average)?
Things to do with the kids?
Any kind of children/toddler groups?
Schools, costs?
business climate?
(It is a typical swedish trait to never expand or develop if it can be avoided, i am very sick and tired of that mentality).
How is the view on entrepeneurs and new businesses?
Is it easy to climb in the career inside a business?
How's the people? Age, young parents? views on moms staying home with their children (i ask because in sweden it is reprihensible that a parent would choose to stay home instead of taking a crappy job).
Howäs the collective traffic? (is that whats it called? bus and train?)

We are both in the age around 25, one kid thats 2 years old and another one on the way (so probably around the ages of 3-4 and 1-2 when we plan to move).
I have a second/third level school education in IT, and i have working experience as a teamleader. and a few university courses in business and economics, thats the probably the road i want to go.
We have a dog and is looking for somewhere close to nature and outside of a city centre.

Help, please?
Atleast to answer some of my questions.

amacachi

Just so you know OP, if you do make the move you'll face the "Why did you come here!?" question a lot. Not in a racist/xenophobic way, just the way it is in this thread because Irish people are convinced that places like Sweden have roads paved with gold and everything is magnificent.

School system here is Primary school from age 4/5 to about 12 years old.
Secondary school follows primary school. The first 3 years is for the Junior Certificate exams that don't mean anything whatsoever apart from being state exams. There's an option then of doing Transition Year which is a year of doing nothing towards the Leaving Certificate. The Leaving Certificate is 2 years so most people finish school around 17 if they didn't do Transition Year and off to college.
There's a lot of talk about about overhauling the current system but given that this is Ireland your kids could well be finished before anything major changes.

merlante

If you can rustle up any kind of third level IT qualification, or even if you just have experience, there are plenty of IT jobs in Waterford -- mostly based out of the Arclabs building. Try to sort out a job before you make the move.

Zifnab

First of all:
Thanks everyone!

Haha, i thought it would sound quite unusual, but not on the brink to insanity to move from Sweden to Ireland.
Sure, we are aware of the economic problems in Ireland, the crisis has hit all of europe. INCLUDING Sweden.
And trust me, our roads are not paved with gold.

Sure, we got a good healthcare system IF: you work full time, are not sick more than seven days, live in some part of the country with good hospitals or health centers (many of them are bad).
Both in healthcare, schooling and state working, they have workers at the age of 50+ with the mentality to never develop, learn or use modern research and data, which put the whole country in a stagnant state.

And sure, you get good unenployment funding IF: you worked full time atleast one year, try to get any crap jobs available in the whole country, and pay over 65€ a month to the union.
AND spend almost 8hours a day filling in forms and call waiting .
(And full time jobs with permanent employement are really hard to come by).

Public schools in Sweden was crap incarnate when i went there, and as i've understood, it still is. bad teaching, spoiled brats, parents do not care and children turn into morons.

If you do not put your children at daycare at the age of 1-2, you are concidered a freak.

Work is harder to come buy, prices are rising all the time, and if you get between the cracks, you're pretty much screwed.

But mostly because i do not like the swedish people, the swedish government or the swedish mentality.

I do not know, this may still sound good in the ears of some of you.
Put i am tired of Sweden.

Just so you know, i am talking about a few years ahead, this is not a whim to move, i am putting careful planning into this.


Why i look at Waterford?

Well, I get a good feeling about the east-southeast of ireland.
The size of the town feels comfortable enough,
decent climate (last week i had below -30c outside, not really ok).
It seems to be close to nature,
Below 170km distance to two large towns.
But then this is a concideration, i will have to see it first.

guitarzero

I think the best thing would be to come on holiday for a while, maybe a few weeks, get to know the people a bit better. Yep, come to Ireland and just get an idea of what the folks are like. Even take note of the weather and employment if you like, culture aspects etc.


Just dont jump at the prospect at living here.



Have you thought of anywhere else OP?........??!?!!?!?

Zifnab

guitarzero wrote: »

I think the best thing would be to come on holiday for a while, maybe a few weeks, get to know the people a bit better. Yep, come to Ireland and just get an idea of what the folks are like. Even take note of the weather and employment if you like, culture aspects etc.


Just dont jump at the prospect at living here.



Have you thought of anywhere else OP?........??!?!!?!?

As i said, i do nothing without planning and concideration.

Somewhere else in ireland? or the rest of the world?
When it comes to Ireland, i look at the east-southeast.
I have no problem living a little closer to Dublin, but my wife do not want to live to close to a huge city.

I am also concidering somewhere in massachusetts, maybe Salem or Chelsea (US).
My wife is thinking of maybe England, probably Leicester or the south coast.

shinfujiwara

Zifnab wrote: »

I am also concidering somewhere in massachusetts, maybe Salem or Chelsea (US).

Is it that easy for an European to move to the US?

I thought it was really hard unless you had skills they wanted so hard to the point of employing you for several years.

Just curious.

Zifnab

Yes it is incredibly hard.

You need either close relatives or spouse from US.
OR excellent working skills, or doctorates.

The rest of us probably have their best chances with the Green Card Lottery.

So the odds are pretty bad, but still not impossible.

Bluefoam

At least you are focused... Waterford, Salem, Leicster...

shinfujiwara

Zifnab wrote: »

Yes it is incredibly hard.

You need either close relatives or spouse from US.
OR excellent working skills, or doctorates.

The rest of us probably have their best chances with the Green Card Lottery.

So the odds are pretty bad, but still not impossible.

Thank you for the answer.

opinion guy

Zifnab wrote: »

Sure, we got a good healthcare system IF: you work full time, are not sick more than seven days, live in some part of the country with good hospitals or health centers (many of them are bad).
Both in healthcare, schooling and state working, they have workers at the age of 50+ with the mentality to never develop, learn or use modern research and data, which put the whole country in a stagnant state.

Ok you do know that Sweden usually tops all polls on quality of healthcare ?
Ireland ..... doesn't.

If you get sick in Ireland you can expect 12hour plus waits to be seen in A&E, waiting lists for basic investigations such as colonoscopies and MRI's, waiting lists to see specialists that can be over a YEAR long. Etc Etc.

Zifnab

opinion guy wrote: »

Ok you do know that Sweden usually tops all polls on quality of healthcare ?
Ireland ..... doesn't.

If you get sick in Ireland you can expect 12hour plus waits to be seen in A&E, waiting lists for basic investigations such as colonoscopies and MRI's, waiting lists to see specialists that can be over a YEAR long. Etc Etc.

Sadly that's not true anymore.
I think the view of sweden is very glorified.
Lots of things has happened in the last few years.
There has been cases where people with cancer has been forced to look for full-time jobs.
After 7 days of sick leave, you need a doctors verdict that should go through the social incurence office. that takes weeks to months. And you must practically be dead to get your sick leave incurance.

If you do not have a full time permanent job, you still get close to nothing payed out if you get sick or unemployed.

In the long term, i do not think ireland is much worse.
If you stay healthy.

dayshah

What sort of skills to you have?

I think it would be worth your while to move here for a year for a different experience at least. Rent is fairly cheap in Waterford, and its not like they won't allow you back into Sweden after a year.

As for nature, we have some nice seaside and mountains, but we don't have the same right to walk freely that you have in Sweden, but most areas of the mountains are free to roam.

Zifnab

dayshah wrote: »

What sort of skills to you have?

I think it would be worth your while to move here for a year for a different experience at least. Rent is fairly cheap in Waterford, and its not like they won't allow you back into Sweden after a year.

As for nature, we have some nice seaside and mountains, but we don't have the same right to walk freely that you have in Sweden, but most areas of the mountains are free to roam.

Well, i got experience from a lot of different areas.
Warehouse work w. teamleader experience, food- vegetables- and spirit/alcohol wholesales, logistics, three years IT-education (probably not sufficient today, haven't worked with it since 2006).
some university courses in business and economics.

Hard work is almost never a factor for climbing within a company in Sweden, Either you must have worked there your whole life, or you get in from the outside with insane educational criteria.
As long as there is a possibility to get more responsibility i can take almost anything.

What kind of jobs generally exist?

merlante

Interestingly, this Dutch guy, Hofstede came up with a scale for measuring different types of cultures. There are 4 dimensions: Power Distance, Individualism-Collectivism, Masculinity and Uncertaintly Avoidance. Countries are rated here.

Ireland is virtually identical on 3 measures, but completely at odds on the 4th, the Masculinity dimension: Ireland 68 - Sweden 5.

So you are going from a country with people much more like the second column here to one much more like the first column.

I'm sure plenty of Irish people would like to swap.

dayshah

Zifnab wrote: »

dayshah wrote: »

What sort of skills to you have?

I think it would be worth your while to move here for a year for a different experience at least. Rent is fairly cheap in Waterford, and its not like they won't allow you back into Sweden after a year.

As for nature, we have some nice seaside and mountains, but we don't have the same right to walk freely that you have in Sweden, but most areas of the mountains are free to roam.

Well, i got experience from a lot of different areas.
Warehouse work w. teamleader experience, food- vegetables- and spirit/alcohol wholesales, logistics, three years IT-education (probably not sufficient today, haven't worked with it since 2006).
some university courses in business and economics.

Hard work is almost never a factor for climbing within a company in Sweden, Either you must have worked there your whole life, or you get in from the outside with insane educational criteria.
As long as there is a possibility to get more responsibility i can take almost anything.

What kind of jobs generally exist?

IT is the best opportunity. WIT, our local polytechnic has good IT courses too, so you could even come to study here.

spankmemunkey

Dont leave Sweden for Ireland full stop!

And especially not for Waterford,

I made a very similar move a few years ago and ive regretted it ever since, There are NO JOBS and its getting worse and worse and worse,

If im every sick i will get on a plane to germany with my E1,11 and present myself in a german hospital, not the third world hospital in waterford, you come out sicker than you went it, everything is being cut in this country and the tax's are increasing the schools have less teachers, its a nightmare, youll regret it im tellin you,Das ist echt unglaublich!

Solair

OP :

The economic situation in Ireland is currently really up in the air. We don't know what the hell is likely to happen over the next few years. I would hold off on moving here, unless you've a really good job lined up.

It's no where near as bad as Greece and there is an actual economy and quite a few positives, but it's just that we do not know what's going to happen with the Eurozone or the banking debt bubble etc. Our wonderful leaders, both the elected ones here in Ireland and the not quite so elected ones at EU level have managed to provide absolutely no sense of any kind of viable path out of the mess.

If you're just moving here for the hell of it, give it a few years before making any decisions. I don't think this is a particularly good time to move to Ireland from a country that is in a more economically stable situation at the moment.

In 3-5 years time, the situation may be very different and things may have returned to normality. Things may turn out fine for Ireland. However, for the moment, I would advise you to stay in Sweden, particularly if you have kids as you would be taking them into a country, with a reasonable standard of living but with a relatively unpredictable future ahead of it.

Riversuir

Before you decide to move to Ireland or to any other European country you should look at the EURES website, www.eures.europa.eu. This is a European Commission website and will give you information about living and working in 30 european countries, what job vacancies are available in each country and will also give you details of EURES Advisers in each country who may be able to give you further information about the region/city/country that you are thinking about moving too. Also check out about what "U" forms you have to get completed before you move. Will make this alot easier for you if you do decide to move.

spankmemunkey

Wasnt that the same site that said Ireland was one of the best country's to live in ? Like we were suppose to be in the top 5, No way!

The schools are **** the hospitals are **** dont get sick in ireland youll be put on a long list for it to sorted and probably be dead by the time you get to be seen, They/We are paying the price now for selling our souls in the economic boom, not everybody sold their soul but everybody is paying the price.

Ireland is also a very very corrupt country only now or in the past couple of years is it coming out how corrupt it actually is.

Run run run run run run for the hills, keep away keep away!

fricatus

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Wasnt that the same site that said Ireland was one of the best country's to live in ? Like we were suppose to be in the top 5, No way!

The schools are **** the hospitals are **** dont get sick in ireland youll be put on a long list for it to sorted and probably be dead by the time you get to be seen, They/We are paying the price now for selling our souls in the economic boom, not everybody sold their soul but everybody is paying the price.

Ireland is also a very very corrupt country only now or in the past couple of years is it coming out how corrupt it actually is.

Run run run run run run for the hills, keep away keep away!

The end is nigh! The end is niiiiigggghhhh!!! Why won't anyone listen to meee...??? Ahh haaa haaaa... sob!!!