DoE testing - The Last Word

niloc1951

Just another example of The RSA applying commercial vehicle rules to our motor caravans which are not vehicles operating in the commercial world.
Motor caravans are in fact private passenger vehicles (same as cars) by legal definition.

Morgan The Moon

niloc1951 wrote: »

What is the expiry date of the cert.

In the early days of testing last year 'vans entitled to a two year cert were only being given one year certs, this was due to the proper admin not being in place when testing became law.
However, later on when the admin caught up the one year cert was exchanged for a two year one, but you had to go to the local motor tax office and ask for the exchange, it was not done automatically.

If you haven't exchanged your one year cert why not try now, you have nothing to loose. If they wont do it then you will just have to get a test done.

The date of original registration of the 'van is also important, depending on exactly when it was it might not be over ten years old yet.

BTW, it the 'van is over 3,500kg GVW and you were charged the HGV price (€13) for the cert at the tax office, late admin changes again :rolleyes:, you are entitled for a refund as the correct price for motor caravans is €6 irrespective of GVW.

Hi niloc1951,
Just noticed the above. Do you know is it the motor tax office that give the refund. I would enjoy getting something back of them if I can.

Rgds,

Morg

niloc1951

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

Hi niloc1951,
Just noticed the above. Do you know is it the motor tax office that give the refund. I would enjoy getting something back of them if I can.

Rgds,

Morg

I got my refund from the tax office when I went there to exchange my one year cert for the two year I was entitled to.

I bought the nicest tasting pint and sandwich ever with the refund :D:D

jpogorman

Hi,

I failed my DOE yesterday due to my back axel being overweight. The mechanic suggested getting the vehicle weighed and re-plated. He mentioned that 2200kg for the back axel and 1600kg for the front axel should do it. I was interested why it had previously passed the DOE and he mentioned legislation changes. A couple of questions if anyone has some answers?
1) Has anyone needed to get a camper re-plated? I have a 1996 Fiat Burstner so I would have expected that the plate would be accurate from day one.
2) Has anyone specifics on any legislation changes in the last 18 months?
3) I've been working off the assumption that a standard B license (up to 3500kg) has covered me to date. The camper had a 3500kg unladen weight up to this point. My presumption now that if the camper comes in at a heaver weight of 3800kg (2200kg + 1600kg) then I need to go for a C license.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
JP

niloc1951

jpogorman wrote: »

Hi,

I failed my DOE yesterday due to my back axel being overweight. The mechanic suggested getting the vehicle weighed and re-plated. He mentioned that 2200kg for the back axel and 1600kg for the front axel should do it. I was interested why it had previously passed the DOE and he mentioned legislation changes. A couple of questions if anyone has some answers?
1) Has anyone needed to get a camper re-plated? I have a 1996 Fiat Burstner so I would have expected that the plate would be accurate from day one.
2) Has anyone specifics on any legislation changes in the last 18 months?
3) I've been working off the assumption that a standard B license (up to 3500kg) has covered me to date. The camper had a 3500kg unladen weight up to this point. My presumption now that if the camper comes in at a heaver weight of 3800kg (2200kg + 1600kg) then I need to go for a C license.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
JP

First, what is the plated weight of axle 2 (the back axle).
Can you move some of your 'stuff' forward so its weight is more on axle 1 (front axle).
What are the actual axle weights at the moment and what is the total weight.

You might be able to become legal by leaving unnecessary stuff at home and/or moving it to a different part of the vehicle.

Once you know your figures have a look at the SV Tech website. They can also advise on the feasibility of uprating the weights within the technical capabilities of the vehicle, you will need the VIN (chassis number) when talking to them.

As a last resort you could carry the stuff which is causing the camper to be overweight in a small trailer. One of the parameters allowed on a car licence is the towing of a trailer behind a vehicle up to 3,500kg GVW so long as the gross weight of the trailer does not exceed 750Kg. This in effect gives a maximum combined weight of 4,250kg.

If you don't fancy hassle associated with trying to park and reverse with a trailer have a look HERE

Pjwal

its not really a change in legislation but much stricter inforcement of what was already there which is beyond the testers control. the 3500kg would refer to gross vehicle weight and the unladen weight which is the weight the mh plus its load can weight in at. it can be possible for each individual axle weight to added together and reach a figure much higher then 3500kg and the overall gross weight still be kept at 3500. theremay be a second plate or sticker fitted somewhere on the mh by the body builder showing higher weights this is common. if not you should contact fiat Ireland or a burstner dealer who might have a spec sheet with higher weights.failing that nilocs advice to at sv tech s web site should be your next move. it is a common problem but not one that's proving easy to solve for some people.p.s were all your water tanks empty and any other unnessary weight removed form the rear of the mh. and do you know by how many kgs were you overweight

jpogorman

@niloc1951 and @Pjwal. Thanks for replies.

First, what is the plated weight of axle 2 (the back axle).
Can you move some of your 'stuff' forward so its weight is more on axle 1 (front axle).
What are the actual axle weights at the moment and what is the total weight.

The plate by the engine looks similar to this...
2800 KG
KG
1- 1650 KG
2- 1750 KG

its not really a change in legislation but much stricter inforcement of what was already there which is beyond the testers control. the 3500kg would refer to gross vehicle weight and the unladen weight which is the weight the mh plus its load can weight in at. it can be possible for each individual axle weight to added together and reach a figure much higher then 3500kg and the overall gross weight still be kept at 3500. theremay be a second plate or sticker fitted somewhere on the mh by the body builder showing higher weights this is common. if not you should contact fiat Ireland or a burstner dealer who might have a spec sheet with higher weights.failing that nilocs advice to at sv tech s web site should be your next move. it is a common problem but not one that's proving easy to solve for some people.p.s were all your water tanks empty and any other unnessary weight removed form the rear of the mh. and do you know by how many kgs were you overweight
The water tanks were empty but not all items were removed from the camper van so I can get it lighter. The design of the camper means that it overhangs the back axel a good bit. I'm not sure I can significantly reduce weight here.

I'll go looking for the exact weight it was over and for an additional internal plate tonight.

niloc1951

It could be possible to increase the plated weight of axle 2 from 1750 to a higher figure.
However, tyre size and load rating, type of brakes (disc or drum) and spring capability will all be taken into account.

It looks like you vehicle has the standard FIAT axle / suspension, if it has, fitting supplementary air suspension Give David Byrne a call could be your answer, assuming the wheels/tyres/brakes are also up to the job.

If the uprating is possible a new plate with the new weights will be needed and the attached form will need to be completed.

jpogorman

The front axel weight was 1455 kgs and the rear axle 2025 kgs. I found a Burstner branded plate close to the main back door but it didn't have any values printed.

niloc1951

jpogorman wrote: »

The front axel weight was 1455 kgs and the rear axle 2025 kgs. I found a Burstner branded plate close to the main back door but it didn't have any values printed.

That's a 15% overload on the back axle
Was the van fully loaded or will there be more added when heading off on hols or for a weekend :eek:.

If it were me I would seriously look into getting the load rating of the rear axle increased or buy a trailer and shift a lot of the heavy stuff to it.
Alternatively I would consider changing for a camper with a bigger payload margin.

Benbecul97

Can't seem to find the latest fee for the DOE test on the RSA site. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Last year the fee for Motor Caravans with two axles was €70.86 plus VAT @ 23% = €87.16

This year the test centre says its €111.16 inc vat. That's an increase of €24 is that correct?

Is the CRW at your Motor Tax Office an additional €6 or is in now included in the increased price?

I am finding conflicting info all over the place. Thanks.

nailer8

See this document.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Testing/CVT%20test%20fees.pdf

Which is typically not very self explanatory.

There was no increase in testing fee but a new Road Safety levy has been added which goes straight to the RSA.

2 Axle Test fee is €70.86 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy is €6 no VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy = €93.15

3 Axles Test fee is €88.58 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy is €6 no VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy = €114.95

Benbecul97

nailer8 wrote: »

See this document.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Testing/CVT%20test%20fees.pdf

Which is typically not very self explanatory.

There was no increase in testing fee but a new Road Safety levy has been added which goes straight to the RSA.

2 Axle Test fee is €70.86 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy is €6 no VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy = €93.15

3 Axles Test fee is €88.58 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy is €6 no VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy = €114.95

Thanks for the reply.

But your calculation is contradicting the info in the link.

The link mentions
Full Test Fee * (including Certificate of Roadworthiness (CRW) & Road Safety Levy)
All fees above are shown exclusive of VAT
* The full test fee includes a Road Safety Levy which is charged only on full periodic tests

Motor caravans with two axles €76.86 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy/CRW is €6 but according to the above there IS VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy & CRW = €94.54

Still no idea where the test centre is getting €111.16 from?

nailer8

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

But your calculation is contradicting the info in the link.

No idea what your centre was quoting.
I operate a test centre. I am 99% certain my figures are correct.

There is no CRW fee any more, your CRW gets posted to your registered address automatically after you have completed your test.
The old fee has been incorporated into the new RSA Levy.
It just happens the Levy for campers is the same value as the old CRW. Other commercials are paying a much larger Levy (e.g. €55 for a truck).

There is definitely no VAT on the Levy. There was some confusion at the start but the Revenue decided there shouldn't be VAT on a tax.

Benbecul97

nailer8 wrote: »

No idea what your centre was quoting.
I operate a test centre. I am 99% certain my figures are correct.

There is no CRW fee any more, your CRW gets posted to your registered address automatically after you have completed your test.
The old fee has been incorporated into the new RSA Levy.
It just happens the Levy for campers is the same value as the old CRW. Other commercials are paying a much larger Levy (e.g. €55 for a truck).

Ok thanks Nailer8. If you are operating a test centre then I'm sure your figures are correct. I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that when I used the figures in your link and calculated them purely on the instructions in the link they were slightly different to yours.

Also, I never before know that the CRW now gets posted to your registered address. Last year I had to pick it up at the tax office.

Seems to me the information on the RSA website is out of date and inaccurate (ie the link above).

Irishgoatman

Another Year.

Another Test.

Another Pass.

My 1986 RomaHome lives to fight another day.

Whoopeeeeeee:D:D:D:D:D.

nailer8

No prob, I dont work in the test centre day to day so i am never 100% certain but checked our system and if i am wrong we are charging our customers the wrong price.

The RSA info is hard to follow the way they phrase it.
It is Net of VAT all right but not all of the figure they quote has VAT charged on it.

In almost every publication they show the new test fee as a complete fee which annoys me because it looks to the customer that our charges have gone up which they haven't. Our test fee has actually gone down €2 per test which goes to the RSA to cover their cost in setting up the new computer system to handle the testing.

Irishgoatman

Just paid for my test 30 minutes ago. No VAT on the €6 levy. Total for 2 axle camper €93.16

niloc1951

The definitive answer can be found HERE

€76.86 + VAT (€17.67) = €94.53

The above includes the new cert/disc.

Benbecul97

niloc1951 wrote: »

The definitive answer can be found HERE

€76.86 + VAT (€17.67) = €94.53

The above includes the new cert/disc.

And this is the figure I also came up with, €94.53 - but we are wrong!

For 2 reasons:
1. In your link above it says Please note that the levy element is not subject to VAT. but it doesnt tell you how much the levy is??? But we established earlier the levy is €6

So its 2 Axle Test fee is €70.86 + VAT @ 23%
The Levy is €6 no VAT on this.
Total Fee inc VAT & Levy = €93.15

2. Its what Irishgoatman paid today!

The info on this from official is just terrible. Not one source has 100% accurate information.

Benbecul97

The plot thickens.

Niloc1951's link HERE clearly states:

Levy does not apply to
Re-tests.
Any motor caravan tests.
Enforcement tests

So why have we to pay it??

nailer8

Benbecul97 wrote: »

So why have we to pay it??

Effectively we are not.
Its just the old CRW fee of €6 but it saves a trip to the tax office.
Works for me!

Irishgoatman

My local (?) motor tax office is Castlebar, 110k round trip. I'm happy to pay €6 to save the hassle but as we don't pay a levy on the car test why we are paying it on our camper test I do not know:(.

Was told that the CRW, disc or whatever, would be with me in 2 or 3 days. I won't hold my breath over that though .

COCKPHESANT

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Can't seem to find the latest fee for the DOE test on the RSA site. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Last year the fee for Motor Caravans with two axles was €70.86 plus VAT @ 23% = €87.16

This year the test centre says its €111.16 inc vat. That's an increase of €24 is that correct?

Is the CRW at your Motor Tax Office an additional €6 or is in now included in the increased price?

I am finding conflicting info all over the place. Thanks.

I paid €111.16 to test a Isuzu Trooper Yesterday.

Pjwal

COCKPHESANT wrote: »

I paid €111.16 to test a Isuzu Trooper Yesterday.

e111 is correct for a commercial vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of 3500kg or less. motorhomes are not classed as commercial vehicles and are there for not charged the rsa levy and get tested at lesser price of e95 ish.

Irishgoatman

It looks as though we are all in agreement that the figure of €93.16 is correct for a 2 axle camper, so now let's hear from owners of 3 axle campers and get an agreement on that price. The amount paid NOT whatever is quoted on a website. Let's go for facts.

Then job done.:)

Benbecul97

Pjwal wrote: »

e111 is correct for a commercial vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of 3500kg or less. motorhomes are not classed as commercial vehicles and are there for not charged the rsa levy and get tested at lesser price of e95 ish.

Think there was confusion between a commercial and non-commercial vehicle
with a gross vehicle weight of 3500kg or less. I was quoted €111.16 but charged €93.16.

Irishgoatman

Windscreen disc received today, 3 working days after test!.

Congrats to them, at least something is working correctly:).

Animord

I have my DOE on Thursday so this information is useful, I will let you know what they charge, or try to charge.

I was told that I needed to bring the Registration document (fine) and my drivers licence. Why would they want my drivers licence? Is that normal?

Irishgoatman

Don't let them charge you more than €93 and a few coppers, that's the set fee.

Never heard mention of needing to produce anything other than registration document. But of course, because it's the law, you will have your driving licence with you. :rolleyes:.