DoE testing - The Last Word

Animord

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Don't let them charge you more than €93 and a few coppers, that's the set fee.

Never heard mention of needing to produce anything other than registration document. But of course, because it's the law, you will have your driving licence with you. :rolleyes:.

Yep, and I will have it as usual, but it seems a bit big brother. I will ask them when I get there.

nailer8

Technically you no longer have to have your registration documents as this is now on the new testing computer system Covis but in practice most test centres like you to bring it because Covis has lots of errors. They should not refuse to test if you don't have it though.

The test cannot proceed unless who ever is presenting the vehicle has photo id. Drivers licence or passport. There are no exceptions to this as the number of the id and the name must be entered into Covis. It doesn't have to be the registered owner though just who ever brings it in.

The fees are fixed.

Animord

nailer8 wrote: »

Technically you no longer have to have your registration documents as this is now on the new testing computer system Covis but in practice most test centres like you to bring it because Covis has lots of errors. They should not refuse to test if you don't have it though.

The test cannot proceed unless who ever is presenting the vehicle has photo id. Drivers licence or passport. There are no exceptions to this as the number of the id and the name must be entered into Covis. It doesn't have to be the registered owner though just who ever brings it in.

The fees are fixed.

Fair enough if that is the law. I have never had to produce ID before and I use this centre several times a year for 'proper' commercial vehicles.

nailer8

I operate a test centre, but to be honest we don't know why it is required. I also don't know if there is a law which enforces it. All i can be sure of is since October 2013 when Covis went live we haven't been able to perform a test without entering the ID details in the system.

It has been suggested that it is to help combat social welfare fraud but that seems a bit too organised for ireland.

---

Edit. It is in the legislation.
SI 347 of 2013
See page 11 Section 21 (e)

Irishgoatman

So I'm not too old to learn something new afterall:D.

Seriously though, I've taken my camper to the same place for the last 5 years without being asked for I.D. so I assume they are just using details that I gave them in the beginning.

JonMac

How early can the DOE test be done before the due date?

nailer8

1 month if you want the same renewal date on the new cert.

As early as you want if you are happy with a 24 month cert e.g. if you want to sell it with a new CVRT cert when your old one is 12 months old.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

1 month if you want the same renewal date on the new cert.

As early as you want if you are happy with a 24 month cert e.g. if you want to sell it with a new CVRT cert when your old one is 12 months old.

What happens if the cert is expired for a full period plus. For example on a vehicle due yearly tests, if the last cert expired say the beginning of April 2013 and the vehicles if being presented for its test late April 2014, over 12 months (365 days) after its last test

nailer8

niloc1951 wrote: »

What happens if the cert is expired for a full period plus.

That is a mine field.
Assuming we are talking about CV's with a 12 month cert as you mentioned.
According to the system. Any time up to 1 year late you only get the remainder of the year on the cert. So if you brought in your vehicle 11 months out of date you only get a 1 month cert (Crazy!).

BUT if it is over 12 months+ late (as you mentioned) you get a 6 month cert. Therefore encouraging anyone coming close to 12 months out of date to wait until they are more than 12 months out of date.
I have complained about this crazy situation but to no avail.

To complicate matters further people are ringing up the RSA directly and complaining and getting their certs extended for no apparent reason. (IMO either change the rules or stick to them, don't bend them for people who complain leaving the non complainers to suffer in silence)

Also worth mentioning the test centre has no discretion re the date on your cert. It comes from the RSA's Covis software system.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

That is a mine field.
Assuming we are talking about CV's with a 12 month cert as you mentioned.
According to the system. Any time up to 1 year late you only get the remainder of the year on the cert. So if you brought in your vehicle 11 months out of date you only get a 1 month cert (Crazy!).

BUT if it is over 12 months+ late (as you mentioned) you get a 6 month cert. Therefore encouraging anyone coming close to 12 months out of date to wait until they are more than 12 months out of date.
I have complained about this crazy situation but to no avail.

To complicate matters further people are ringing up the RSA directly and complaining and getting their certs extended for no apparent reason. (IMO either change the rules or stick to them, don't bend them for people who complain leaving the non complainers to suffer in silence)

Also worth mentioning the test centre has no discretion re the date on your cert. It comes from the RSA's Covis software system.

I was thinking about MC's (motor caravans) is it the same for them or does 'the system' treat them differently.
The 30 day bring forward limit as applied to CV's is really out of place for MC's which in our opinion should be treated the same as cars and allowed a 3 months bring forward. It's not as if MC's do a big mileage like CV's
A person taking a MC foreign for a few months can be really penalised if the test date falls due more than 30 days after his departure.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

I was thinking about MC's (motor caravans) is it the same for them or does 'the system' treat them differently.
The 30 day bring forward limit as applied to CV's is really out of place for MC's which in our opinion should be treated the same as cars and allowed a 3 months bring forward. It's not as if MC's do a big mileage like CV's
A person taking a MC foreign for a few months can be really penalised if the test date falls due more than 30 days after his departure.

It's exactly the same for CV's as MC's. As I found out. Tried complaining to powers that be without any luck, they just pointed out how the law stands.

To me it just seems like a way for them to make more money, or not lose out (depending on how you look at it).

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

It's exactly the same for CV's as MC's. As I found out. Tried complaining to powers that be without any luck, they just pointed out how the law stands.

To me it just seems like a way for them to make more money, or not lose out (depending on how you look at it).

There's no basis in law for the one month rule, it's just in RSA's own procedures.
Sensible enough for high use/mileage commercially used vehicles but a bit ridicules for motor caravans.

It all stems from The RSA insisting on applying LGV/HGV test manuals with a few special notes and exceptions to motor caravan testing, instead of issuing a properly focused manual for what must be the least used category of private passenger vehicles on the roads.
As I said if 3 months is OK for cars then it should be OK for motor caravans

nailer8

There's no basis in law for the one month rule, it's just in RSA's own procedures.

In fairness it does appear to be dealt with in the Law SI 347 of 2013 see section 8

As you mentioned the RSA have very little interest in making special rules for MH's
Seeing the state of some of the CV's on the road there is no way they should ever get a cert valid for 15 months which could be 200k for some trucks.
For a MH doing 5k per year its a totally different ball game.

Id be interested to know how many MH's are registered in the country.
I know for our test centre they are less than 1% of our tests so hard to justify special rules, manuals & training etc just for 1% of the vehicles we see.

Irishgoatman

nailer8 wrote: »

In fairness it does appear to be dealt with in the Law SI 347 of 2013 see section 8

As you mentioned the RSA have very little interest in making special rules for MH's
Seeing the state of some of the CV's on the road there is no way they should ever get a cert valid for 15 months which could be 200k for some trucks.
For a MH doing 5k per year its a totally different ball game.

Id be interested to know how many MH's are registered in the country.
I know for our test centre they are less than 1% of our tests so hard to justify special rules, manuals & training etc just for 1% of the vehicles we see.

I have to agree with you on this.
When the proposal for testing was being discussed the RSA gave me the figures of, if my memory serves me correctly for a change, around 13k registered and around 10k taxed at that time.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

In fairness it does appear to be dealt with in the Law SI 347 of 2013 see section 8

As you mentioned the RSA have very little interest in making special rules for MH's
Seeing the state of some of the CV's on the road there is no way they should ever get a cert valid for 15 months which could be 200k for some trucks.
For a MH doing 5k per year its a totally different ball game.

Id be interested to know how many MH's are registered in the country.
I know for our test centre they are less than 1% of our tests so hard to justify special rules, manuals & training etc just for 1% of the vehicles we see.

In law things must be exactly as prescribed with no ambiguity. The Act quoted refers to CVR the C meaning Commercial and repeatedly refers exclusively to 'Commercial Vehicles'.

Interestingly, in our VAT law for a vehicle to be classified as 'Commercial' it is required to "be used for the purposes of a VAT-registered business', not the case of a privately owned motor caravan.
The Oxford Dictionary defines a 'commercial vehicle' as "A vehicle used for carrying goods or fare-paying passengers"

Based on the above observations how does a motor caravan sit legally within legislation concerning itself with' Commercial Vehicles'

Perhaps we are looking at just another example of the many pieces of flawed Irish legislation .

It would have been much simpler if The RSA had followed practice in other jurisdictions and tested motor caravans as private passenger vehicles, those physically too big to be accommodated within the NCT network being directed the VTN network for testing on their more suitable equipment.

Animord

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Don't let them charge you more than €93 and a few coppers, that's the set fee.

Never heard mention of needing to produce anything other than registration document. But of course, because it's the law, you will have your driving licence with you. :rolleyes:.

Well I had it done this morning, there was no question about the fee, there were signs up on the reception and the waiting room detailing the charges and Campers were listed at €93.16.

Sadly I failed, but that's another story. :mad:

Macspower

Strange one for me.. I had my motorhome last tested on 1st of May last year and got notice of my test being due from my local vrt centre.

However when the test centre checked the RSA system I have no current DOE showing on the system so if I get it tested they will only give me a 6 month cert.

It turns out that last year I got the pass cert from the centre but was supposed to go and exchange it for another pass cert in the tax office but didn't.

I didn't get the van tested and told them I would try and sort it with the RSA first. A call to the RSA found a sympathetic lady but said there was nothing she could do...

Surely a test should last a year no matter when you get it done?

confused ..

Pjwal

A lot of people been caughtby that scenario. I do agree with you that it is silly situationand that once the vehicle was tested that it should be considered to be tested but it was not considered to be tested by until you changed over the cert at the tax office and had been pulled over by traffic corps or involved in an accident the law could had summoned you for not having a test

niloc1951

Macspower wrote: »

Strange one for me.. I had my motorhome last tested on 1st of May last year and got notice of my test being due from my local vrt centre.

However when the test centre checked the RSA system I have no current DOE showing on the system so if I get it tested they will only give me a 6 month cert.

It turns out that last year I got the pass cert from the centre but was supposed to go and exchange it for another pass cert in the tax office but didn't.

I didn't get the van tested and told them I would try and sort it with the RSA first. A call to the RSA found a sympathetic lady but said there was nothing she could do...

Surely a test should last a year no matter when you get it done?

confused ..

This appears to be a punitive measure, but perhaps someone can come up with a safety related reason, it also applied to imported vehicles (money making).

What's the difference between a vehicle being tested for the first time after import or an extended period of no cert and one which has is being tested otherwise, if it passes what's the difference
AFAIK it is part of the regime for Commercial Vehicle testing only and not applied to Car (NCT) testing.

Another Commercial Vehicle aspect of testing applied to motor caravans, which are not commercial vehicles :mad:

Pjwal

niloc1951 wrote: »

This appears to be a punitive measure, but perhaps someone can come up with a safety related reason, it also applied to imported vehicles (money making).

What's the difference between a vehicle being tested for the first time after import or an extended period of no cert and one which has is being tested otherwise, if it passes what's the difference
AFAIK it is part of the regime for Commercial Vehicle testing only and not applied to Car (NCT) testing.

Another Commercial Vehicle aspect of testing applied to motor caravans, which are not commercial vehicles :mad:

But with the imported vehicles if the owner rings the Rsa after the test, the Rsa will extend the test period to 12 months. If you ever read a correspondence from the Rsa they continually refer to them selves as "the authority" they do believe themselves to be very high and mighty

nailer8

Macspower wrote: »

Strange one for me.. I had my motorhome last tested on 1st of May last year and got notice of my test being due from my local vrt centre.

However when the test centre checked the RSA system I have no current DOE showing on the system so if I get it tested they will only give me a 6 month cert.

It turns out that last year I got the pass cert from the centre but was supposed to go and exchange it for another pass cert in the tax office but didn't.

I didn't get the van tested and told them I would try and sort it with the RSA first. A call to the RSA found a sympathetic lady but said there was nothing she could do...

Surely a test should last a year no matter when you get it done?

confused ..

This may be too late but you should call the RSA again. I have seen this situation countless times in our test centre and they are accepting the previous test date regardless of whether or not you ever exchanged it for the CRW. Even if you have it tested and only got a 6 month cert, ring them back send them an scan of your old test cert they should give you a 1(or 2) year cert. They have a record of every test even if you didnt get the CRW as test centres had to make monthly electronic returns, however the computer system prior to COVIS was pants! Loads of records are missing.
Edit -
I should add however that the test centre cant do anything about the expiry date, you have to go via the RSA.

Seaswimmer

Quick query.

my DOE is due 4th July 2014 but I have recently taxed the camper till end of June 2015. Is there anything to be gained by not doing the DOE this year as I am unlikely to be doing much with the camper after end of the summer..

Could I do it next June 2015 instead. What are the legalities and implications.

nailer8

You could but you would be illegal from 4th July this year.
5 Points if you are done for it.
Also with all the new CRW certs having a windscreen disc it will be easier for the guards to see you don't have one on display and ask you why.
(not saying this is a problem a lot of us, myself included are legally driving without the windscreen disc but come Oct 2014 100% of CV's and c.50% of MH's should be displaying the disc with 100% of MH's displaying the disc by Oct 2015)

Failure to have a current CRW certificate is an offence under Section 18 of the Road
Traffic Act 1961. Conviction for this offence carries five penalty points and the courts
may impose a fine of up to €3,000 and/or up to three months’ imprisonment and 5
Penalty Points.

Seaswimmer

nailer8 wrote: »

You could but you would be illegal from 4th July this year.
5 Points if you are done for it.
Also with all the new CRW certs having a windscreen disc it will be easier for the guards to see you don't have one on display and ask you why.
(not saying this is a problem a lot of us, myself included are legally driving without the windscreen disc but come Oct 2014 100% of CV's and c.50% of MH's should be displaying the disc with 100% of MH's displaying the disc by Oct 2015)

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Irishgoatman

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Quick query.

my DOE is due 4th July 2014 but I have recently taxed the camper till end of June 2015. Is there anything to be gained by not doing the DOE this year as I am unlikely to be doing much with the camper after end of the summer..

Could I do it next June 2015 instead. What are the legalities and implications.

Apart from the risk of driving without a test cert, the other thing is that you will, probably only get a 6 months cert if you leave it.

My test was due last November but as I had already put it away for the winter I left the test until March when I brought the camper out of hibernation. I had it tested and, lo and behold, only got a cert to last me until the Novemebr due date so I gained nothing monetry wise. Have a chat to someone at the testing centre would be my suggestion unless niloc1951 has better info on how long a cert taken out next year would last.

Should have added that my camper needs a test every year, so things will be different if yours is a 2 year cert.

nailer8

Normally you only get a cert dated to the anniversary of your last test. So you would gain nothing.
For 1Y certs if you leave more than 12 months you get a 6 month cert.

If your MH is a 2y cert and you are 1y out of date i don't know what the story is, they never issued guidance on that but logic would dictate you will only get a cert valid up to the 2nd anniversary of your last cert.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

Normally you only get a cert dated to the anniversary of your last test. So you would gain nothing.
For 1Y certs if you leave more than 12 months you get a 6 month cert.

If your MH is a 2y cert and you are 1y out of date i don't know what the story is, they never issued guidance on that but logic would dictate you will only get a cert valid up to the 2nd anniversary of your last cert.

This 6 month certificate just seems to be a money making lark, or perhaps its a stealth penalty for not renewing on time, for which there can be good and valid reasons, for example if the vehicle was off the road due to owner/driver illness or the vehicle was in storage or undergoing repairs.
No one has been able to give me a roadworthiness or safety related reason for its existence.

This simple question has never been answered. If two vehicles are tested and passed using the same methodology why does one deserve only a six month certificate, how does the expiry date of its previous certificate have a bearing on the issue.

joed571

i tested mine this week after being of the road for a while and only got 4 months on mine

niloc1951

joed571 wrote: »

i tested mine this week after being of the road for a while and only got 4 months on mine

Like car testing late testing only gets you to the next 'anniversary' date.

My post was about tests of vehicles which were never tested before for example imports or motorhomes which have never been tested since testing became law for them in March 2012 or those which have been laid up for more than a year since their test was due. Those are the vehicles which only get a six month certificate.

Interestingly this 'penalty' process does not apply vehicles processed through the NCT system and I can find no reference to it in any of the Acts covering vehicle roadworthiness testing.
It seems to be a stealth penalty, for vehicles which pass through the VTN system, thought up by the RSA with no basis in law or road safety.

nailer8

The only reason i can see for the 6 month rule is not to have an incentive for people who haven't renewed their cert for say 9 months to wait the additional 3 so that they can get the full year's cert.
We currently have a daft situation where someone who renews after 11 months gets a 1 month cert but someone who renews after 13 months gets a 6 month cert incentivising people who are almost a year out of date to wait until after the year.

I have pointed this out the RSA in our capacity as a test centre and proposed that the minimum cert length be 6 months. That way there is no incentive to leave the vehicle go over one year to get a longer cert. Also giving people certs for 1 or 2 months is a bit stupid. I have seen one guy get a cert for 2 weeks, he had to turn around and put it through the test again the following day.

BTW the 6 month cert for imports is effectively gone, while the software will give you a 6 month cert if you phone the RSA they will send you out a 12 month cert.