The pub loses its pulling power

SureYWouldntYa

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Cannot believe they managed to get through that article without referring directly to the main problem - the prices in pubs as opposed to drinking at home, and it's attendant problem, the unwillingness of publicans to lower prices to compete.

They act like they're some sort of special group that have a right to keep their prices twice that of the competitor yet still expect the business.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is there is also other costs taken into account when your drink costs so much. Is the electricity free? or the heating? or the sky sports you so enjoy? €3.70 for a pint is not that bad. It costs €1.30-€1.60 for the cost of the pint. The rest of the money goes towards the other parts of a pub people seem to forget but like moaning about when at home

gurramok

irish_goat wrote: »

Who are "they"? There are plenty of places that do offers on match days. I was getting pints of O'Hara's for €3.50 in Doyles during the Ireland-Wales match. You just need to shop around more.

Which Doyles is that? :eek:(small world) Suppose I should say it was indeed Doyles opposite Pearse st Garda station. Do I know you?..LOL

To prove I was there(:)), the place was packed that night with not a single rugby supporter in sight and there was a fight amongst 2 young drinkers quickly put out by the bouncers.

Pedro K

My local has a pint of guinness 3.60, Pint of lager 3.70 and I think Cider (I don't drink it so i don't know) is 3.90-4.00. Large bottle of cider is something like 4.40.

Two pool tables at 50 cent a game (free pool on wednesdays) and two dart boards (bring your own darts and throw all you like).

Reasonably priced drink and pub games. I'm happy with that!

Turpentine

amacachi wrote: »

Link pls. There's a coupla percent difference in duty and 3% difference in VAT between here and NI. I somehow doubt that off-licences are selling below cost in NI (it being their only income) and it's only now that offlicences here are getting close to similar prices.

None of the wholesalers will put their prices on their websites, but I suggest that you ring them up for a quote before being so definitive about something you don't know about.

texidub

ART6 wrote: »

Ireland is being turned into a closed order monastery

While the people who bring in the legislation laugh in your face, paying themselves huge wages and getting locked in the SUBSIDISED Dail Bar.

iregk

The thing that I always find strange are the people on the radio and such every now and again blaming the drink driving limit for ruining pubs and in particularly rural life. What does it say about or society and mind set that we can't socialise unless alcohol is involved?

johnnyskeleton

Fromthetrees wrote: »

I fucking hate the argument constantly being made that people drink less and much more responsibly in the pub than at home, and that having a bar man to monitor peoples drinking ensures nobody gets too drunk compared to being 'unsupervised' at home, it is the biggest load of bullcrap I've ever heard, personally speaking I have never once drank 'too much' at home, why, because I buy what I want and need and drink in such a relaxed atmosphere whereas the amount of times I've drank 'too much' while out in a pub or club is actually quite frightening, why, because you can lose the run of yourself, forget how much you're after, start having shots with friends or get into a round. Made up points really piss me off. :mad:

Also, people have much more respect for their own home and/or a friend/relative's home than they do for a pub and will naturally tend towards behaving properly.

And, if the music is too loud to talk in a house you can turn it down, but in the pub you have to just drink more.

amacachi

Turpentine wrote: »

None of the wholesalers will put their prices on their websites, but I suggest that you ring them up for a quote before being so definitive about something you don't know about.

Fun argument.
How often do Tesco etc. have say, Dutch Gold any less than an offlicence? Again, given it's their only product and offlicence won't sell below cost so where's the evidence the supermarket is? On top of that there's the discount for volume one would expect the supermarket to have.

johnnyskeleton

Turpentine wrote: »

Are you joking?

Supermarkets are selling crates of beer cheaper than the listed price (before VAT is even added) that is available on a wholesalers price-list.

Maybe you have yet to see evidence because you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to the industry.

That doesn't mean that they are selling below cost at all. Below cost means below what it costs them, not what it costs someone else. The big supermarkets probably bypass the wholesalers, buy in bulk and sell cheaper than the wholesalers while still making a profit.

irish_goat

gurramok wrote: »

Which Doyles is that? :eek:(small world) Suppose I should say it was indeed Doyles opposite Pearse st Garda station. Do I know you?..LOL

To prove I was there(:)), the place was packed that night with not a single rugby supporter in sight and there was a fight amongst 2 young drinkers quickly put out by the bouncers.

That's the one! They had signs up saying all pints were €3.50 all day and that's what I was getting charged. The match was on during the day though, which was when I was in.

gurramok

irish_goat wrote: »

That's the one! They had signs up saying all pints were €3.50 all day and that's what I was getting charged. The match was on during the day though, which was when I was in.

I was there after 11pm though, didn't see those signs and I'd drink O'Hara's anytime. Still mean on them putting up the price because a big match was on, not fair on non-rugby supporters who just want a night out.

Turpentine

amacachi wrote: »

Fun argument.
How often do Tesco etc. have say, Dutch Gold any less than an offlicence? Again, given it's their only product and offlicence won't sell below cost so where's the evidence the supermarket is? On top of that there's the discount for volume one would expect the supermarket to have.

No it's not an argument, you're approaching it from a position of guess work. All I'm saying is that you should do a little research before insisting you know everything about off-sales and supermarkets.

Have you never heard of loss-leaders? Used to create footfall.

They do it with other products since the ban on below cost selling was lifted in 2005, why does it take so much to convince you that they do it with alcohol?

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That doesn't mean that they are selling below cost at all. Below cost means below what it costs them, not what it costs someone else. The big supermarkets probably bypass the wholesalers, buy in bulk and sell cheaper than the wholesalers while still making a profit.

They'll still generally use wholesalers and squeeze the best price out of them through bulk-buying.

But to insist supermarkets are not and never use below-cost selling of alcohol purely because you don't know about it is idiocy.

The only way some people would be happy is obviously to get a direct breakdown from Dunnes or Tesco or whoever on the margins they make/lose on alcohol, but if you asked the big chains they'd tell you to piss off, so there's no point in us talking about this any further.

Here's an article on it from the Irish Medical Times:

http://www.imt.ie/features-opinion/2012/01/below-cost-alcohol-sales-cannot-continue.html

Sample:
“In effect, this means that the Government and taxpayers are subsidising those large retailers who can afford to sell alcohol below cost price,” Committee Chairman Jerry Buttimer TD said."




From the Irish Times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0923/1224304579071.html

privacyconcern

Turpentine wrote: »

No it's not an argument, you're approaching it from a position of guess work. All I'm saying is that you should do a little research before insisting you know everything about off-sales and supermarkets.

Have you never heard of loss-leaders? Used to create footfall.

They do it with other products since the ban on below cost selling was lifted in 2005, why does it take so much to convince you that they do it with alcohol?



They'll still generally use wholesalers and squeeze the best price out of them through bulk-buying.

But to insist supermarkets are not and never use below-cost selling of alcohol purely because you don't know about it is idiocy.

The only way some people would be happy is obviously to get a direct breakdown from Dunnes or Tesco or whoever on the margins they make/lose on alcohol, but if you asked the big chains they'd tell you to piss off, so there's no point in us talking about this any further.

Here's an article on it from the Irish Medical Times:

http://www.imt.ie/features-opinion/2012/01/below-cost-alcohol-sales-cannot-continue.html

Sample:
“In effect, this means that the Government and taxpayers are subsidising those large retailers who can afford to sell alcohol below cost price,” Committee Chairman Jerry Buttimer TD said."




From the Irish Times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0923/1224304579071.html

Corporatism at work no less.

AngryBollix

thomasj wrote: »

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Was jammers last night!

I LOVE THAT PUB

Mike 1972

arse..biscuits wrote: »

What a strange thing to say. Firstly, your sentence doesn't make sense but also every christening I have ever heard of has been in a pub.

I thought they took place in Churches

Biggins

privacyconcern wrote: »

Corporatism at work no less.

Jeasus man - your obsessed with that word!
Are you going to stick it into every thread possible?

arse..biscuits

Mike 1972 wrote: »

arse..biscuits wrote: »

What a strange thing to say. Firstly, your sentence doesn't make sense but also every christening I have ever heard of has been in a pub.

I thought they took place in Churches

Over the course of the day it can move. Traditionally church first

Owldshtok

irishgeo wrote: »

60c for the small bottles, 2.50 is the average price of a mixer in the pub.

thats a 315% markup. if my maths are correct.

jesus chirst.

Around 50c of that 2.50 will go directly to the government in VAT.
I might be wrong but isn't there some sort of other specific tax on the sale of alcohol as a portion of that 2.50?

Can anyone give a breakdown on what % goes to who for the price of an average drink in a pub? (brewery or importer,distributor,wholesaler,revenue commissioners and publican..)

EdenHazard

Drink is dirt, I put a 15 quid a month towards drink and thats for a shoulder and a few cans on a night out.

tigger123

castletownman wrote: »

Is the report limited to just pubs in Dublin and other Irish cities though? I'm from a rural area and I must say the price of a pint in any place in town is fairly reasonable, around 3.80 for a Guinness and 4.00 for a Lager or Cider. I will say though by far the most popular pub in town does a drink promo of certain pints for 3 euro, and 2 vodka's and red bull for 8 euro. I find the young people of the town aren't put off by the price in ANY of the pubs, and if anything it seems to be a younger crowd that socialise on average. Those sort of prices aren't just limited in my town, they appear to be frequent in other towns I've visited.

The price for a night out in Dublin though is a joke. It's gone to the stage where you'd save up for it for a few weeks just to cover everything. I've spent less at a wedding!

I don't think this is a rural/urban divide tbh. You may be paying 4 euro for a pint and in Dublin it's 4.80 ish in most places ... but it's still WAY to expensive.

ArtSmart

The Vintners Association had more pull in this country than any other lobby group. If fact the only time I remember FF The republican Party back benchers getting upset, was when pub incomes were threatened.

The madness started in the late 90's and spiralled out of control from then on.

There are signs of sanity returning (drop in prices), but it will be interesting to see if they can take on the big supermkt chains and win. i doubt it. but this increase of /new min price for beer in supermkts - for 'our health' no less, might go through. the scumbuckets.

Dave147

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Cannot believe they managed to get through that article without referring directly to the main problem - the prices in pubs as opposed to drinking at home, and it's attendant problem, the unwillingness of publicans to lower prices to compete.

They act like they're some sort of special group that have a right to keep their prices twice that of the competitor yet still expect the business.

Problem lies with the breweries not with the publican(some of them, yes..), I am in the business 11 years and my family 23 years in total. We've always been known to be a fair pub. A pint of Beamish, Carling or Fosters is €3, Heineken, Bud etc is €3.80, Guinness and Murphy's is €3.50. Vodka and Dash is €3.50 and Irish Whiskey is €3.50 - We absolutely cannot sustain any cheaper prices than this, we would simply go out of business, we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy. We offer free pool on Tues-Thurs and have 5 dart boards that are always free for our customers.

Yet we are still in trouble.. I find that our prices are very reasonable, we have a lovely modern looking bar with friendly staff, the quality of drink is second to none and the lines are well maintained by ourselves regularly and vigilantly. It's fair to say we are experts in our field and by that reason should be doing a lot better than we are.

There are numerous problems, one of them is the price of alcohol in supermarkets, a "pint" of lager should not be cheaper than a pint of milk, ever. Supermarkets are selling beer below cost to get people in to buy groceries, sometimes as low as €15 for 24 bottles of a selected premium brand. It's insane, and is promoting an alcoholic culture, you may say that's rich coming from me, but it's true. The absolute greed of the breweries is another problem, the likes of Diageo who control a large amount of the drinks trade set prices that cause publicans to charge exorbitant prices to consumers. I don't think any pint in the country should cost more than €4.50, I understand pubs have rent/mortgage/wages/sky/electricity/rates to pay but they are making it very hard for people to come out for a drink. Going out with the missus and getting no change from a tenner, or being asked for more is a disgrace.

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Edit: My pub is in Cork City, not rural, not Dublin.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

1/ a pint should be no more than 3 euro
2/ the jacks needs to be pristine
3/ turn the music down - or better OFF
4/ turn the fcuking sports off
5/ have a decent food option if possible
6/ have attentive staff, not c.unts who think they are some kind of nazi pharmacist .

ive been in some pubs where 5 years ago or more , they would barely acknowledge you ,
now they are licking your hole like a rabid dog to keep you there

paybacks a bitch .

psychward

Dave147 wrote: »

Problem lies with the breweries not with the publican(some of them, yes..), I am in the business 11 years and my family 23 years in total. We've always been known to be a fair pub. A pint of Beamish, Carling or Fosters is €3, Heineken, Bud etc is €3.80, Guinness and Murphy's is €3.50. Vodka and Dash is €3.50 and Irish Whiskey is €3.50 - We absolutely cannot sustain any cheaper prices than this, we would simply go out of business, we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy. We offer free pool on Tues-Thurs and have 5 dart boards that are always free for our customers.

Yet we are still in trouble.. I find that our prices are very reasonable, we have a lovely modern looking bar with friendly staff, the quality of drink is second to none and the lines are well maintained by ourselves regularly and vigilantly. It's fair to say we are experts in our field and by that reason should be doing a lot better than we are.

There are numerous problems, one of them is the price of alcohol in supermarkets, a "pint" of lager should not be cheaper than a pint of milk, ever. Supermarkets are selling beer below cost to get people in to buy groceries, sometimes as low as €15 for 24 bottles of a selected premium brand. It's insane, and is promoting an alcoholic culture, you may say that's rich coming from me, but it's true. The absolute greed of the breweries is another problem, the likes of Diageo who control a large amount of the drinks trade set prices that cause publicans to charge exorbitant prices to consumers. I don't think any pint in the country should cost more than €4.50, I understand pubs have rent/mortgage/wages/sky/electricity/rates to pay but they are making it very hard for people to come out for a drink. Going out with the missus and getting no change from a tenner, or being asked for more is a disgrace.

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Edit: My pub is in Cork City, not rural, not Dublin.

The reality here Dave is that nobody owes you a living. The country is littered with failed businesses and the unemployed and publicans are not special or different. If people want their drink cheaper but to stay at home with it , that is their choice. Publicans want to remove their choices away from them. The only thing a pub has to offer is the fact that it is a public place. Instead of trying to make alcohol dearer for people who cannot afford it so you can have a job at their expense , why don't you try selling cans for a Euro each ? If the Brewerys are to blame for over priced kegs then why not offer customers this cheaper option of cans. The people are bankrupt and they have wised up too. They don't want to and cannot afford to be paying premium prices for ''added value'' bells and whistles which is code for a con job. It is especially insulting and sticks in your throat when publicans try to make this a fait accompli by lobbying politicians to force the competitors in the supermarkets and off licenses to raise their prices through legislation. It's greedy bullsh1t and it's not born of concern for the customers. We know all about how concerned publicans are for their customers' intake of alcohol when we compare the extortionate prices of a glass of cola or orange to the price of a pint. We also saw some publicans clamoring to try and charge for tap water a greedy and selfish move which they havent gotten away with and which many of us havent forgotten. We also haven't forgotten how some pubs greedily raised the price of a pint when a match was on. Pubs obviously exist in capitalism to make money out of dealing a legal drug.

liffeylite

psychward wrote: »

Dave147 wrote: »

Problem lies with the breweries not with the publican(some of them, yes..), I am in the business 11 years and my family 23 years in total. We've always been known to be a fair pub. A pint of Beamish, Carling or Fosters is €3, Heineken, Bud etc is €3.80, Guinness and Murphy's is €3.50. Vodka and Dash is €3.50 and Irish Whiskey is €3.50 - We absolutely cannot sustain any cheaper prices than this, we would simply go out of business, we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy. We offer free pool on Tues-Thurs and have 5 dart boards that are always free for our customers.

Yet we are still in trouble.. I find that our prices are very reasonable, we have a lovely modern looking bar with friendly staff, the quality of drink is second to none and the lines are well maintained by ourselves regularly and vigilantly. It's fair to say we are experts in our field and by that reason should be doing a lot better than we are.

There are numerous problems, one of them is the price of alcohol in supermarkets, a "pint" of lager should not be cheaper than a pint of milk, ever. Supermarkets are selling beer below cost to get people in to buy groceries, sometimes as low as €15 for 24 bottles of a selected premium brand. It's insane, and is promoting an alcoholic culture, you may say that's rich coming from me, but it's true. The absolute greed of the breweries is another problem, the likes of Diageo who control a large amount of the drinks trade set prices that cause publicans to charge exorbitant prices to consumers. I don't think any pint in the country should cost more than €4.50, I understand pubs have rent/mortgage/wages/sky/electricity/rates to pay but they are making it very hard for people to come out for a drink. Going out with the missus and getting no change from a tenner, or being asked for more is a disgrace.

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Edit: My pub is in Cork City, not rural, not Dublin.

The reality here Dave is that nobody owes you a living. The country is littered with failed businesses and the unemployed and publicans are not special or different. If people want their drink cheaper but to stay at home with it , that is their choice. Publicans want to remove their choices away from them. The only thing a pub has to offer is the fact that it is a public place. Instead of trying to make alcohol dearer for people who cannot afford it so you can have a job at their expense , why don't you try selling cans for a Euro each ? If the Brewerys are to blame for over priced kegs then why not offer customers this cheaper option of cans. The people are bankrupt and they have wised up too. They don't want to and cannot afford to be paying premium prices for ''added value'' bells and whistles which is code for a con job. It is especially insulting and sticks in your throat when publicans try to make this a fait accompli by lobbying politicians to force the competitors in the supermarkets and off licenses to raise their prices through legislation. It's greedy bullsh1t and it's not born of concern for the customers. We know all about how concerned publicans are for their customers' intake of alcohol when we compare the extortionate prices of a glass of cola or orange to the price of a pint. We also saw some publicans clamoring to try and charge for tap water a greedy and selfish move which they havent gotten away with and which many of us havent forgotten. We also haven't forgotten how some pubs greedily raised the price of a pint when a match was on. Pubs obviously exist in capitalism to make money out of dealing a legal drug.

Landlord of pub in cork, ignore the ignorant post. The public support you and admire your dedication to your profession.

psychward

liffeylite wrote: »

Landlord of pub in cork, ignore the ignorant post. The public support you and admire your dedication to your profession.

The ''ignorant post'' is the one quoted above. Anyone with half a brain who checks out the post history can see an agenda.

tippspur

psychward wrote: »

The reality here Dave is that nobody owes you a living. The country is littered with failed businesses and the unemployed and publicans are not special or different. If people want their drink cheaper but to stay at home with it , that is their choice. Publicans want to remove their choices away from them. The only thing a pub has to offer is the fact that it is a public place. Instead of trying to make alcohol dearer for people who cannot afford it so you can have a job at their expense , why don't you try selling cans for a Euro each ? If the Brewerys are to blame for over priced kegs then why not offer customers this cheaper option of cans. The people are bankrupt and they have wised up too. They don't want to and cannot afford to be paying premium prices for ''added value'' bells and whistles which is code for a con job. It is especially insulting and sticks in your throat when publicans try to make this a fait accompli by lobbying politicians to force the competitors in the supermarkets and off licenses to raise their prices through legislation. It's greedy bullsh1t and it's not born of concern for the customers. We know all about how concerned publicans are for their customers' intake of alcohol when we compare the extortionate prices of a glass of cola or orange to the price of a pint. We also saw some publicans clamoring to try and charge for tap water a greedy and selfish move which they havent gotten away with and which many of us havent forgotten. We also haven't forgotten how some pubs greedily raised the price of a pint when a match was on. Pubs obviously exist in capitalism to make money out of dealing a legal drug.

Well said psychward.

Overheal

Price is only not a factor if you have the goods to back it up. If I was going to go to a really nice place for a drink, I'd pay a little extra. Problem is lots of places now are just pieces of sh(t to hang out in, and only good for getting drunk in if the price is right. A good pub has to be somewhere you'd want to go even if drink was not the main aim.

...and the price.

But no I don't at all mind if its value. There are a couple places in Charleston I wouldn't mind dropping more money on a drink for the sake of the scene. Places you can sit in big leather chairs, light cigars and crack open craft bottles - even play chess. And then you have the bar down the road where the girls dance on the counter, do wet t-shirt contests and do some kinky things with a bottle of liquor. Offy won't do that..

jay-me

Dave147 wrote: »

Problem lies with the breweries not with the publican(some of them, yes..), I am in the business 11 years and my family 23 years in total. We've always been known to be a fair pub. A pint of Beamish, Carling or Fosters is €3, Heineken, Bud etc is €3.80, Guinness and Murphy's is €3.50. Vodka and Dash is €3.50 and Irish Whiskey is €3.50 - We absolutely cannot sustain any cheaper prices than this, we would simply go out of business, we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy. We offer free pool on Tues-Thurs and have 5 dart boards that are always free for our customers.

Yet we are still in trouble.. I find that our prices are very reasonable, we have a lovely modern looking bar with friendly staff, the quality of drink is second to none and the lines are well maintained by ourselves regularly and vigilantly. It's fair to say we are experts in our field and by that reason should be doing a lot better than we are.

There are numerous problems, one of them is the price of alcohol in supermarkets, a "pint" of lager should not be cheaper than a pint of milk, ever. Supermarkets are selling beer below cost to get people in to buy groceries, sometimes as low as €15 for 24 bottles of a selected premium brand. It's insane, and is promoting an alcoholic culture, you may say that's rich coming from me, but it's true. The absolute greed of the breweries is another problem, the likes of Diageo who control a large amount of the drinks trade set prices that cause publicans to charge exorbitant prices to consumers. I don't think any pint in the country should cost more than €4.50, I understand pubs have rent/mortgage/wages/sky/electricity/rates to pay but they are making it very hard for people to come out for a drink. Going out with the missus and getting no change from a tenner, or being asked for more is a disgrace.

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Edit: My pub is in Cork City, not rural, not Dublin.

1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro Sport
2005 BMW 320CD M-Sport

Absolutely scraping a living by... kudos to you and the family.. We all know times are hard but sure we have to make ends meet...

Get a grip! You have a clearly defined agenda the same as the rest in your trade!! BOO HOO people won't take being ripped off anymore.. Tough luck!

Galwayguy35

Dave147 wrote: »

Problem lies with the breweries not with the publican(some of them, yes..), I am in the business 11 years and my family 23 years in total. We've always been known to be a fair pub. A pint of Beamish, Carling or Fosters is €3, Heineken, Bud etc is €3.80, Guinness and Murphy's is €3.50. Vodka and Dash is €3.50 and Irish Whiskey is €3.50 - We absolutely cannot sustain any cheaper prices than this, we would simply go out of business, we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy. We offer free pool on Tues-Thurs and have 5 dart boards that are always free for our customers.

Yet we are still in trouble.. I find that our prices are very reasonable, we have a lovely modern looking bar with friendly staff, the quality of drink is second to none and the lines are well maintained by ourselves regularly and vigilantly. It's fair to say we are experts in our field and by that reason should be doing a lot better than we are.

There are numerous problems, one of them is the price of alcohol in supermarkets, a "pint" of lager should not be cheaper than a pint of milk, ever. Supermarkets are selling beer below cost to get people in to buy groceries, sometimes as low as €15 for 24 bottles of a selected premium brand. It's insane, and is promoting an alcoholic culture, you may say that's rich coming from me, but it's true. The absolute greed of the breweries is another problem, the likes of Diageo who control a large amount of the drinks trade set prices that cause publicans to charge exorbitant prices to consumers. I don't think any pint in the country should cost more than €4.50, I understand pubs have rent/mortgage/wages/sky/electricity/rates to pay but they are making it very hard for people to come out for a drink. Going out with the missus and getting no change from a tenner, or being asked for more is a disgrace.

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Edit: My pub is in Cork City, not rural, not Dublin.

Times are tough for everyone, we all have bills to pay. Its a bit ironic that we didnt hear the publicans worrying about Irelands " alcoholic culture" during the boom times when their pubs were packed and back in the day when the pub carpark was full of people driving home after a feed of beer. For many of us it was a godsend that we were able to get reasonably priced alcohol in the supermarket but now a Labour minister has decided to stick her nose into our lives telling us she is worried we are all borderline alcoholics so the only answer to that is to up the prices in off licenses. Bit strange that this is coming at the same time as the VFI is going on about the pub trade being down. Just because some people cant handle their drink the price will be put up for everyone. And it wont stop the alcoholics drinking as they will buy it no matter what price it is.

uberalles

Everyone back to my place for fine wine and cheese !

Overheal

Dave147 wrote: »

we have never lived the life of luxury and we never got greedy

And yet I can't stop admiring the rims on the BMW you are trying to sell there. Perhaps because you could afford it when times were good, eh? Though if google serves me straight and true, you only bought that car just last year?

Not trying to rip you or anything but it is kind of odd. Perhaps one should tighten thine own belt to weather the shifting alcohol economy?

zenno

the pubs are only ripoff merchants and this is why I stopped going as well. I couldn't care less if every pub in Ireland closed down. as a poster here said earlier that half the pubs you walk into are a kip so unless they dramatically lower their prices people will abstain from going to them.

I really find it hard to believe that they don't think price is an issue, are they living on a different planet ? I have a way better time drinking at home with the lads and girls than in any kip like most of the pubs i know. greed is destroying them and they are still whinging about it, lower your prices or follow suit to all the other pubs which went out of business and stop whinging like little girls.

flas

pebbles21 wrote: »

How about a pub that that has an Off License inside instead of a Bar,selling Cans,bottles etc at a slightly higher price than a regular off license to offset costs?
Seen this on holidays somewhere ...it was a off license with a big beer garden ...place was packed all the time

There was a place in at home in longford like this not long ago,had a casino licence,was able to sell cans,bottles and wine,no hard liquer,and it could stay open until the owner decided to go home!it was great,pool tables and few slot machines up stairs,and card games going during the week,it was in a house in the centre of town that was converyed into it for this purpose!the local publicans had a mickey fit over it for about two years!the place used to be absolutely packed from at night because of the no kicking out time!

Zebra3

Dave147 wrote: »

TL;DR - Not all pubs rip people off, breweries and supermarkets need to take some blame, culture of alcoholism imminent.

Are you saying supermarkets rip off people with regard to alcohol?

tigger123

liffeylite wrote: »

Landlord of pub in cork, ignore the ignorant post. The public support you and admire your dedication to your profession.

Didn't realise you'd been elected to speak for everyone else on the thread. :rolleyes:

And it wasn't an ignorant post.

desertcircus

It's interesting that the Black Sheep is mentioned in the accompanying pub-crawl article as being pretty busy. It very much seems as though those kind of pubs (Against the Grain, the Bull and Castle, the Porterhouse etc) are doing a lot better than the average, and I suspect it's because of what they're selling. A bottle of Rochefort 10 will set you back six euro in Redmond's off-licence in Ralenagh, or 7.20 in the Porterhouse, so if I decide to go out and spend thirty quid on beer of a Friday I can drink four in the Porterhouse or get five from Redmond's. If I want to drink Budweiser, though, I can buy six of those in an ordinary Dublin pub or twenty-four of them from Tesco.

Large numbers of Irish pubs are going to go to the wall, and the ones that survive are going to be the ones that have a specific reason. The craft beer pubs will survive; the pubs near busy stadia (Croke Park, the Aviva, Thomond and the RDS) will get by on matchday revenue; the better pubs in the middle of office districts will get decent money from afterwork pints. If you can't point to a specific reason why your pub is going to do well, then it's probably going to be in trouble.

amacachi

Turpentine wrote: »

No it's not an argument, you're approaching it from a position of guess work. All I'm saying is that you should do a little research before insisting you know everything about off-sales and supermarkets.

Have you never heard of loss-leaders? Used to create footfall.

Of course I've heard of loss-leaders, can you give me an example of one? I'd go to an off-licence as much as a supermarket depending on what I'm after because the prices are damn close. All off-licences sell is alcohol so I doubt they're selling all their drink at a loss.

And again, I've looked at the duty etc. for the UK and here and there's a bigger margin here. The wholesalers may be charging more but I doubt it's to the point that it's getting near places selling below cost.

Barna77

desertcircus wrote: »

It's interesting that the Black Sheep is mentioned in the accompanying pub-crawl article as being pretty busy.

I just noticed yesterday its new name. It's the second or third name it has had over the last couple of years. Different ownership? But yeah, every time I've passed by it's always very quiet. Wouldn't think of it as busy...

bluefinger

went in to a pub the other day to see the last ten minutes of the liverpool v utd game. 3.50 for a sparkling water with a dash of lime. no wonder the place was empty at 2 o clock on a saturday.

Dave147

Overheal wrote: »

And yet I can't stop admiring the rims on the BMW you are trying to sell there. Perhaps because you could afford it when times were good, eh? Though if google serves me straight and true, you only bought that car just last year?

Not trying to rip you or anything but it is kind of odd. Perhaps one should tighten thine own belt to weather the shifting alcohol economy?

Perhaps if you knew where I got the funds for the car it would help. I'll give you a clue, it certainly wasn't from the bar trade. It's my family's business, I have other interests. I never said we were poverty stricken, and we never ripped off anyone, tar us all with the same brush why don't you.. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Also, what agenda do I have? I'm simply defending my trade, we're not all moneygrabbing leeches. The sooner you all realise that the better, bunch of hypocrites I can imagine, I'm sure you all never go out for a drink and enjoy it :rolleyes:

Blackjack

desertcircus wrote: »

It's interesting that the Black Sheep is mentioned in the accompanying pub-crawl article as being pretty busy. It very much seems as though those kind of pubs (Against the Grain, the Bull and Castle, the Porterhouse etc) are doing a lot better than the average, and I suspect it's because of what they're selling. A bottle of Rochefort 10 will set you back six euro in Redmond's off-licence in Ralenagh, or 7.20 in the Porterhouse, so if I decide to go out and spend thirty quid on beer of a Friday I can drink four in the Porterhouse or get five from Redmond's. If I want to drink Budweiser, though, I can buy six of those in an ordinary Dublin pub or twenty-four of them from Tesco.

Large numbers of Irish pubs are going to go to the wall, and the ones that survive are going to be the ones that have a specific reason. The craft beer pubs will survive; the pubs near busy stadia (Croke Park, the Aviva, Thomond and the RDS) will get by on matchday revenue; the better pubs in the middle of office districts will get decent money from afterwork pints. If you can't point to a specific reason why your pub is going to do well, then it's probably going to be in trouble.

QFT - the pubs such as L Mulligan Grocer, Bull and Castle, Against the Grain etc are all going to do better than their competition who insist on having the same list of beers - Heineken, Bud, Carlsberg, Guinness and pretty much just the same in Bottles.

You simply can't expect people to remain satisfied and keep going to pubs with the same limited choice in every single place.

Pubs need to differentiate themselves rather than hoping the same tired old formula is going to magically start working again. Complaining about it in a newspaper without adressing any of the fundamentals that are the cause of their own problems in the first place isn't going to get them anywhere.

Dave147

For the record,

I didn't come here to moan about how tough the bar business is or how we can't afford 3 holidays a year etc. Time's are tough for everyone, I understand that, but don't kick a man while he's down. My family never inherited anything, we started with nothing and I worked from a very young age, my father taught me to earn my living and I respect that.

It's about time some of you here learned that we are not all the same, as I said previously, we've been in the bar business for 23 years, I've been involved on-off for 11 years, throughout that time we've never been called greedy or a rip off pub.. The reason for that is simple enough, we're not in the business to rip people off, our prices are about as cheap as you will find without sacrificing quality.

To be honest I really don't know what to say to appease some people, there are some of you here who have a serious chip on their shoulder with regard to all publicans. Stereotype much?

With regard to my comment about Supermarkets, the problem there is that drink is becoming too accessible as a daily habit. Whatever about my "agenda" as a publican it's not rocket science to see that binge drinking at home (or in pubs for that matter) is bad for your health and bad for society.

Blackjack

Dave147 wrote: »

For the record,

I didn't come here to moan about how tough the bar business is or how we can't afford 3 holidays a year etc. Time's are tough for everyone, I understand that, but don't kick a man while he's down. My family never inherited anything, we started with nothing and I worked from a very young age, my father taught me to earn my living and I respect that.

It's about time some of you here learned that we are not all the same, as I said previously, we've been in the bar business for 23 years, I've been involved on-off for 11 years, throughout that time we've never been called greedy or a rip off pub.. The reason for that is simple enough, we're not in the business to rip people off, our prices are about as cheap as you will find without sacrificing quality.

To be honest I really don't know what to say to appease some people, there are some of you here who have a serious chip on their shoulder with regard to all publicans. Stereotype much?

With regard to my comment about Supermarkets, the problem there is that drink is becoming too accessible as a daily habit. Whatever about my "agenda" as a publican it's not rocket science to see that binge drinking at home (or in pubs for that matter) is bad for your health and bad for society.

For the record - I wasn't having a go at you.
My point is - places that offer choice certainly appear to be doing a whole whack better than places selling the same old stuff.
Although I've never been in the cuckoos nest, i'm fairly certain that I can tell you exactly what they have on tap and in their coolers, and it will be the exact same product list in 95% of pubs around the country.

There are far more beers available for pubs to sell, but for some unknown reason, pubs don't want to embrace this and prefer to sell the same as everyother pub.

ArtSmart

As regards Diageo. sure they're the big boys, but what about this.

what about the 10 or so independent breweries that exist out there?

what about the 3e a pints lads, stout, larger and ale - and it micro brewed and fuk guinness and the rest of them fuk em.

if publicans want to band together, do so and fight Diageo not the fuking customers!

nearly 3e for a coke? is that Diageo's fault?

if the law restricts who you purchase from, lobby for THAT law to change, not for your supermkt competitors to lower their prices.

in short, act like a fuking business, not a 'special case' business.

for farming, perhaps, as food security is vital. but the drinks trade?? get a fuking grip.

Paparazzo

Dave147 wrote: »

For the record,

My family never inherited anything, we started with nothing and I worked from a very young age, my father taught me to earn my living and I respect that.

We're not fooled by the rocks that you got, you're just dave147 from the block

ArtSmart

Round up nine other publicans. Cut a deal with 2 or 3 Irish microbreweries. (tell me, any restrictions buying from UK microbreweries if you had to?)

Call yourselves the CADS (Cork Against Diageo Scumbags.)

advertise it, buy together in bulk or if that's not legal, buy separately, but from the same 2 or 3 micros.

I tell you this. Diageo would soon sit up and take notice.

suicide_circus

dave147,
The reason people here have a chip on our shoulders about publicans is simple - every single last one of us have been ripped off by publicans time and time and time again. And now that we're finally too broke to fork out the outrageous pub prices and choose to drink at home, publicans lobby for laws forcing their competitors (supermarkets) to increase their prices in order to force people back to pay their bloated prices! It actually ****ing beggars belief!!!!

ArtSmart

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I've a question I've always wondered about. Do pubs have to buy alcohol from approved vintners suppliers. I'm asking because if the supermarkets are selling below cost why not buy it from there.
I've never understood the cost of soft drinks. I don't drink much so I end up buying soft drinks. Frequently I find I'm buying a 250ml bottle of a soft drink for a price that is more than 2L in the supermarket. So I don't bother doing that much anymore. I have no problem paying more than I'd pay if drinking it at home but you get to a stage where it gets annoying.

yes, there are strict restrictions, pubs cannot buy from supermkts. THAT is what they need to lobby against.

but they can buy from alternative breweries. as for splits etc, not sure.

Biggins

Dave147 wrote: »

...With regard to my comment about Supermarkets, the problem there is that drink is becoming too accessible as a daily habit. Whatever about my "agenda" as a publican it's not rocket science to see that binge drinking at home (or in pubs for that matter) is bad for your health and bad for society.

I have seen over decades, many decades, people who constantly live across a bar counter.
They do their daily work, head homeward via a pub first, get home, eat and then later return to their favourite pub again.
They do this for many inner week days daily and on the weekends, returning to same pubs, oft times to be there all day and night - going home in between for a bite to eat!
Let be clear - fair enough, if thats what they wish to do, so be it. Its what makes them happy.

My point is that drink has ALWAYS been accessible as a daily habit!
NOW just because the supermarkets are beating the pubs at their own game, we hear the cries of the VFI and its alternates, we hear the moaning from many of those that failed to adapt and prepare for possible market conditions changing (and they did)!

Drink has ALWAYS been accessible as a daily habit!
Don't not try using that excuse!
Many, many pub owners were quite happy when drink was easily accessible in the past daily!
We didn't hear them moaning them as they daily, by the hour and week, took the cash off the regular customers!

Absolute PR balderdash of an excuse!