lil help with lease issue please

IpreDictDeatH

I know this has been asked before,and the usual answer is no, a noisey neighbour does not allow you to break a fixed term lease. But doesnt it say in the 2004 act that the landlord must entitle you to quiet and exclusive enjoyment of your home?

We moved into a place very recently and we are having problems with the noise upstairs. We were told they have kids and you may hear a few footsteps. But 5am herd of elephants and blaring music all day is not what we expected. Plus, my partner works shifts so she has to sleep duirng the day which is impossible. The floors must be very thin as we can hear everything, even talking. So when they wake up and start dancing to music it is as though they are in the same room. Fair enough, they are probably entitled to do that, but are we not also entitled to quiet enjoyment of our apartment?

We were thinking of letting the letting agent know we intend on moving out ASAP but we will hang on and pay rent until they find another tenent. Has anybody ever tried that? Any hope we can retrieve our security deposit?

Can anyone point me in the right direction as to who i go to get advice in this matter? Would a solicitors office give me advice for a fee? Excuse my ignorance, ive never dealt with anything like this before.

Procrastastudy

Firstly, and I know this sounds daft, have you tried speaking to them? I've had occasions to have polite words with my neighbours and it usually helps.

Yes a solicitor will help you for a fee - phone up a few and get a rough idea of what a consultation will cost - it costs you nothing to do that and no-one is going to get you in for a consultation, take your money and then say - oh there is nothing we can do. If you are in the D7/8 area PM me I have a really friendly and down to earth solicitor I can recommend.

Beyond - keep a log of it and write a letter to the letting agent as soon as possible I'm afraid my advice ends there. Someone will probably be able to give you the legal side of it. The only thing you may want to clarify is how much info the agent gave you about it being a quiet flat etc. That probably wont get you very far but there are certain instances where you might use it as ammunition.

IpreDictDeatH

Appreciate that replyGCD, thanks. Look if we have to walk away without the deposit so be it, i understand i may have my hands tied, we aint the type to be demanding anything. Just thought id see were i stood legally.

We have already started logging all the instances and am thinking of contacting the letting agent very shortly (we're only in two weeks). Thing is, the people above are probably doing nothing wrong really. Its just a really thin floor maybe? But real loud music and stomping around is just too much. We cant live in those conditions. We were told 'you may hear a few footsteps' not that we will be woken up at 5am by the sheer noise of it.

Thanks again for giving your opinion.

Procrastastudy

Jesus I totally forgot the http://public.prtb.ie/

Worth looking at.

Pkiernan

So you haven't spoken to your neighbours then?

Give it a try.

If you do not speak to you neighbours, then your only real alternative is to leave.
Regarding your lease, you will effectively lose your deposit of you move out.
Is it worth your and your partners peace of mind to do so? If so, then I would say just leave, detailing why.
It might well be worth losing the deposit to have a better quality of life elsewhere.

Depending on who told you there was a potential for noise, you could in theory have an actionable case against them for the amount of your deposit.
I think that Small Claims will not entertain this - you may have to go through the PTRB (useless as they are).

Landlords have effectively no rights under current rental regulations, and the odds of you being successfully pursued for breaking your lease with respect to rent owed to the Landlord are astronomically high in your favour.

johnfás

1) Have you spoken to the neighbours directly to highlight your concerns? You should do so and keep a record.
2) Are you in an apartment complex? If you are perhaps there is a management company that could help you. Perhaps you are all subject to certain restrictions re noise etc in the complex.
3) Is the neighbour also a tenant? If so consider complaining directly to their landlord as their landlord has an obligation to ensure that they are well behaved.

IpreDictDeatH

Thanks for all of this folks,

Yeah as you say, peace of mind is more important, and i dont mind having to walk away. But i just seen in one of the acts were it said the landlord was obliged to provide us with a quiet place of residence, or something to that affect and thought i may be able to quote that to the letting agent.

Anyway you have all been very helpfull.

Oh one last bit of advice. Would you recommend that we leave ASAP and stop paying rent and suffer consequences or stay on and pay rent until they have a new tenent?

IpreDictDeatH

johnfás wrote: »

1) Have you spoken to the neighbours directly to highlight your concerns? You should do so and keep a record.
2) Are you in an apartment complex? If you are perhaps there is a management company that could help you. Perhaps you are all subject to certain restrictions re noise etc in the complex.
3) Is the neighbour also a tenant? If so consider complaining directly to their landlord as their landlord has an obligation to ensure that they are well behaved.

It's a big house divided into flats, so i presume they have the same landlord as us. We havent spoken to the neighbour, or considered trying to change the status quo as we see that as pointless. Fighting a loosing battle. Might sound lazy on our behalf but thats not the case. We also have other small issues in the apartment and i am fixing these myself, at my own cost. So we are not the demanding type.

We just feel that if we have a family, with kids upstairs, and they are set in there ways we would only be fighting a loosing battle tryin to get the noise to stop. We would prefare to walk away and loose deposit. I was just wondering if we had any legal rights in relation to living in a noisey apartment when we had no idea it would be like that when we signed.

Procrastastudy

johnfás wrote: »

3) Is the neighbour also a tenant? If so consider complaining directly to their landlord as their landlord has an obligation to ensure that they are well behaved.

I was under the impression a landlord couldn't be held accountable for the actions of his tenants...

IpreDictDeatH wrote: »

Oh one last bit of advice. Would you recommend that we leave ASAP and stop paying rent and suffer consequences or stay on and pay rent until they have a new tenant?

Speak to the letting agents and see what they say - maybe a compromise can be reached where you stay with them but move. I personally would take the position that I expected to have a quiet environment - and you didn't provide that so keep the deposit but tough on the rest... That's how I'd play it but is certainly not the right thing to do legally.

Incidentally I had over ten years experience in sales - if they say "foot steps" they mean - herd of elephants :P Just for the next one you move in too! View it three times - at different times during the day. If possible phone the managing agent and see what you can get out of them.

johnfás

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I was under the impression a landlord couldn't be held accountable for the actions of his tenants...

s 15 of the 2004 Act imposes a duty of care on the part of the Landlord to any third party who would be directly and adversely effected by a failure of a tenant to comply with their obligations under the Act... Incl not to behave in an antisocial manner (s 16(f)).

krd

IpreDictDeatH wrote: »

Plus, my partner works shifts so she has to sleep duirng the day which is impossible. The floors must be very thin as we can hear everything, even talking.

That's really the design of the building.

A friend was having terrible trouble with his neighbour downstairs (he was in three story apartment block - he actually had the top two stories and she and her husband had the bottom floor.

His trouble was her complaining. And I was there when this happened. If you walked across the floor nearly any time of day, she'd be around banging on the door - bawling that her husband had to sleep because he was a shift worker - and then calling the his landlord. His landlord was thinking he was having non-stop crazy parties, when he was creepy around like a mouse trying not to upset his neighbour - he was being threatened with eviction.

The design was so bad, that if you played music or the television, she'd be around to complain about the noise of the "party", and complaining that my friend was always having parties - he could barely move in his own house because of the noise complaints - he would only watch television in his bedroom. So that would be a complete floor between him and his neighbour - and still they would come around to complain. One of the worst things was the wood staircase that led out the front door - even walking on it very gently made noise - and the neighbour would be out complaining.

I know shift workers have to sleep during the day. But they can't expect the whole world to go to sleep when they do either. There should have been tighter laws on the design of houses in Ireland - I've lived in houses where you could hear them whispering next door.

I had annoying neighbour who used to complain to me about the noise, and it wasn't even me - it was the next house up blaring music so loud it was travelling through my house and into my neighbours.

The solution, and I know people who've down this, could be just to move out into the countryside.

Blame the builders.