spreading grass seeds

GERMAN ROCKS

is it a waste of time throwing out a few grass seeds on paddocks without ploughing them. have a few that a slow to grow because the grass seeds could be 20 years old but will eventually get around to reseeding them. just wondering if i throw out a half bag of seeds on top would it be only a waste. or whatabout straight clover. will be reseeding others this year and can only reseed so many in one year.

bob charles

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

is it a waste of time throwing out a few grass seeds on paddocks without ploughing them. have a few that a slow to grow because the grass seeds could be 20 years old but will eventually get around to reseeding them. just wondering if i throw out a half bag of seeds on top would it be only a waste. or whatabout straight clover. will be reseeding others this year and can only reseed so many in one year.

IMV a waste of money, grass seed will be 60 an acre at least this year. Why are you limited to how much you can reseed, is it stocking rates or just getting the time and money to do the job properly, if its the latter and you are on nice level ground consider direct drilling the grass seed will also killing off the old growth, you could stunt the existing grass with Gramoxone if you want to do a half arsed job and then seed, but IMV you should always try to do a proper reseed

blue5000

It's too early yet, works best after a cut of silage with slurry after the grass/clover seed

5live

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

is it a waste of time throwing out a few grass seeds on paddocks without ploughing them. have a few that a slow to grow because the grass seeds could be 20 years old but will eventually get around to reseeding them. just wondering if i throw out a half bag of seeds on top would it be only a waste. or whatabout straight clover. will be reseeding others this year and can only reseed so many in one year.

Complete waste of time. Once temperatures rise the grass there already will grow and shade out any grass seeds that manage to germinate. As bob charles said, a waste of 30 euro an acre

GERMAN ROCKS

i know its too early. was thinking of doing it around april. would spread it with urea mixed in. yes due to stocking rate. i will need the rest of the grass. can only have realistically 10 acres at a time out for reseeding

GERMAN ROCKS

5live wrote: »

Complete waste of time. Once temperatures rise the grass there already will grow and shade out any grass seeds that manage to germinate. As bob charles said, a waste of 30 euro an acre

ya will probably leave it now. just an idea i was thinking today.

Finno59

dont do it with urea, the ammonia which urea changes to is toxic to germinating seeds and would kill them.
Mix it with normal fertilizer and try and do it if land is poached followed by a roll.

Good loser

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

ya will probably leave it now. just an idea i was thinking today.

I like the idea. Graze it tight in March with light stock. Put out the seed around Mar 20 with 100 kg to acre of 0.10.20 i.e. no nitrogen. Graze with light stock from April 20 ish for 3 weeks. Normal from then on but don't cut this year.

Juniorhurler

I have a three acre paddock that I am planning on reseeding shortly. I am going to try avoid ploughing if possible. I am planning on spraying it off, giving it a few runs of the dish harrow in different directions to cut it up, spreading the seed with the wagtail, chain harrowing and rolling. Has anybody else evr done it this way? If it works great and if not three acres won't break me and I will know for the future.

redzerologhlen

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I have a three acre paddock that I am planning on reseeding shortly. I am going to try avoid ploughing if possible. I am planning on spraying it off, giving it a few runs of the dish harrow in different directions to cut it up, spreading the seed with the wagtail, chain harrowing and rolling. Has anybody else evr done it this way? If it works great and if not three acres won't break me and I will know for the future.

The contractor I work with does 90% of the reseeding this way and it seems to work grand. Only difference is he uses a seed broadcaster on top of the chain Harrow. It's awful stoney around here so that's the reason for doing it that way.

Indubitable

I am tempted to throw grass seed into the slurry tanker and see how it works out.

reilig

Indubitable wrote: »

I am tempted to throw grass seed into the slurry tanker and see how it works out.

It won't work too well. When it gets damp it will come out in balls. You'll have an extrememly uneven cover.

yellow50HX

have done that with rotovator/power harrow last aug, nice cover there now. dont know anyone around here with a disc harrow but if it breaks up the top layer even enough it should be ok

PMU

Indubitable wrote: »

I am tempted to throw grass seed into the slurry tanker and see how it works out.

put it in tank before agitating, its been done before and it works

cj maxx

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I have a three acre paddock that I am planning on reseeding shortly. I am going to try avoid ploughing if possible. I am planning on spraying it off, giving it a few runs of the dish harrow in different directions to cut it up, spreading the seed with the wagtail, chain harrowing and rolling. Has anybody else evr done it this way? If it works great and if not three acres won't break me and I will know for the future.

would a chain harrow do for the pre-seed rather than a disc one ?

Juniorhurler

cjmc wrote: »

would a chain harrow do for the pre-seed rather than a disc one ?

The research suggests that the optimum cover for grass seed is 30mm. The chain harrow will never generate this depth of cover, at least not the one that I have.

Juniorhurler

yellow50HX wrote: »

have done that with rotovator/power harrow last aug, nice cover there now. dont know anyone around here with a disc harrow but if it breaks up the top layer even enough it should be ok

I have a 10ft disc/dish harrow that is about the place as long as I remember. The auld fella remembers pulling it with a super major, but it is still a great machine to have about the place.

cj maxx

Juniorhurler wrote: »

The research suggests that the optimum cover for grass seed is 30mm. The chain harrow will never generate this depth of cover, at least not the one that I have.

thanks

redzerologhlen

The way we do it is give it 4 runs of the disc normally and every time we disc it we do it from both sides as in cross it. The top 3 inches is well broken up then and give it a good run of the chain Harrow to level it, spread the seed then and chain Harrow again and then roll. It works perfect and no need to power Harrow. The only time we ever had to plough was really hard ground that the discs wouldn't sink into.

GERMAN ROCKS

why are people so against ploughing?

reilig

cjmc wrote: »

would a chain harrow do for the pre-seed rather than a disc one ?

Chain harrow is perfect to prepare the ground for a reseed. I have done it many times with great success. I posted all details onto a thread last year or the year before. Chain harrow is great if you have stony ground because it won't being up stones or on bad ground (like mine) where you won't break the hard skin on top and make your land untraversable

reilig

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

why are people so against ploughing?

I can't plough. My land has only got 2 to 4 inches of soil. If I plough I'll bring up all the daub and it will grow nothing!!

For other people, i think ploughing to reseed is just too expensive when you can reseed just as good with a one pass system.

bob charles

Juniorhurler wrote: »

The research suggests that the optimum cover for grass seed is 30mm. The chain harrow will never generate this depth of cover, at least not the one that I have.

Well whoever researched that, their conclusions are bullocks, thats an inch and a quarter deep. I wouldnt like to be waiting for the seed to appear. As a rule of thumb for the sowing depth for all seeds sow 4 times their own size. For grass seed a dust of earth over them is all thats needed

cj maxx

so . would this do a good job (plucked from various threads )
spray to kill grass
graze bare
chain harrow in several directions
lime
spread seed mixed with fertiliser (no nitrogen )with a spinner sower (low revs and sowing the width of the tractor to ensure no missed runs)
roll

now just should i lime it (how much?) and should i harrow it lightly then roll after seeding . i dont have slurry hence the fertiliser
cheers

dar31

bob charles wrote: »

Well whoever researched that, their conclusions are bullocks, thats an inch and a quarter deep. I wouldnt like to be waiting for the seed to appear. As a rule of thumb for the sowing depth for all seeds sow 4 times their own size. For grass seed a dust of earth over them is all thats needed

nail on the head, there bob

blue5000

Juniorhurler wrote: »

The research suggests that the optimum cover for grass seed is 30mm. The chain harrow will never generate this depth of cover, at least not the one that I have.

What research would that be now? If you sowed clover 30mm deep it might never come up.

lab man

lads, i ploughed an powerharrowed twas a great job but i'm new to seeding. ive 2 questions,
the field i reseeded, i baled last year same yr as seeding the bales were black when opening them, why is this? but the cows still ate them, but left a good bit of waste.

2nd,I am renting a place but dont want to go to the expense of plough an harrow could i just throw the seed into the slat tank aggitate and spread without burning off the ground,
thanks L.

Juniorhurler

blue5000 wrote: »

What research would that be now? If you sowed clover 30mm deep it might never come up.

Sorry lads typo there, that should be 20mm deep on the advice of my Glanbia advisor

JOAT

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Sorry lads typo there, that should be 20mm deep on the advice of my Glanbia advisor

I think 20mm is still way too deep. I have had a few places where the rock was only a few mm's below the surface, gave it a right lash of dung and slurry (only on the really bad patches) and the seed grew away. I was always of the conclusion that grass seed doesn't actually need to be covered and will grow perfect if just planted on top of the surface with a few mm if loose soil for the roots to get a hold

sheafield

Followed Reilig advise last year when re-seeding 4 acres. First reseeding ever done on our ground and worked very well.
I limed ground with gran lime a few weeks before starting, sprayed, grazed tight and then ran chain harrow that was weighed down with a few sleepers. Put out another bag/acre of gran lime. After about 3-4 harrow runs we mixed seed and fert and spread with spinner and then harrowed and rolled. Really happy with job and going to do more this spring.
Any advise on sprays would be welcome however, only aspect I missed out on last year as unsure what and when to spray.

Attie

JOAT wrote: »

I think 20mm is still way too deep. I have had a few places where the rock was only a few mm's below the surface, gave it a right lash of dung and slurry (only on the really bad patches) and the seed grew away. I was always of the conclusion that grass seed doesn't actually need to be covered and will grow perfect if just planted on top of the surface with a few mm if loose soil for the roots to get a hold

Joat
Few years ago my late father reseeded a lawn after building new house reseeded with a fiddle their were a few blocks lying around edge of said lawn, seed went onto blocks and it grew good'o and not just for a few weeks :eek: think it would be still growing only found job for blocks.
Ever since have used no more than a roller to bury seed and works for me.
And as for lime don't think it needs to be buried as well I usually let the rain take it to the roots it's cheaper that way.

Tora Bora

sheafield wrote: »

Followed Reilig advise last year when re-seeding 4 acres. First reseeding ever done on our ground and worked very well.
I limed ground with gran lime a few weeks before starting, sprayed, grazed tight and then ran chain harrow that was weighed down with a few sleepers. Put out another bag/acre of gran lime. After about 3-4 harrow runs we mixed seed and fert and spread with spinner and then harrowed and rolled. Really happy with job and going to do more this spring.
Any advise on sprays would be welcome however, only aspect I missed out on last year as unsure what and when to spray.

I did likewise, not with big areas, but with several strips which had been poached, and tracks of land where cattle walk a lot, to get from A to B, or to head for the wall with most shelter, in bad weather.
Did exactly as you mentioned above. Only difference, was I added a good dose of slurry, after rolling in the seed, to give it an extra bit of cover.

Worked great.

reilig

Attie wrote: »

Joat
Few years ago my late father reseeded a lawn after building new house reseeded with a fiddle their were a few blocks lying around edge of said lawn, seed went onto blocks and it grew good'o and not just for a few weeks :eek: think it would be still growing only found job for blocks.
Ever since have used no more than a roller to bury seed and works for me.
And as for lime don't think it needs to be buried as well I usually let the rain take it to the roots it's cheaper that way.

+1

I have been doing a good bit of research on overseeding in the last 12 months. I got a lot of printed information from Cotswold seed in the uk. We are a long distance behind the uk with reseeding and overseeding. Any information that I got from them tells me that seed barely need any cover of soil for to grow. Seed just placed on top of loosened soil (eg with a chain harrrow) and rolled in will grow far better and faster than seed which is sown beneath 5mm of soil.

The only danger with low cover on seed is a dry period which would cause them to dry out. In our part of the country, we never had this problem I suppose its why they recommend overseeding during the spring or autumn.

Here's a video with some more info

JOAT

reilig wrote: »

+1

I have been doing a good bit of research on overseeding in the last 12 months. I got a lot of printed information from Cotswold seed in the uk. We are a long distance behind the uk with reseeding and overseeding. Any information that I got from them tells me that seed barely need any cover of soil for to grow. Seed just placed on top of loosened soil (eg with a chain harrrow) and rolled in will grow far better and faster than seed which is sown beneath 5mm of soil.

The only danger with low cover on seed is a dry period which would cause them to dry out. In our part of the country, we never had this problem I suppose its why they recommend overseeding during the spring or autumn.

Here's a video with some more info

Pretty interesting stuff. Would it not be better to spray off the old grasses before doing this type of reseeding? They didn't mention anything about killing off old grass from what i heard anyway. Surely this would be one of the important aspects of reseeding in the first place so as to have a good cover of top quality grass

blue5000

Has anyone else tried sowing grass seed at half rate, or is it just me that's mean? I did it last year with a bit of barley as a nurse crop and I think it has worked, paddock has just been grazed by weanlings.

49801

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

why are people so against ploughing?

expensive operation and adds several weeks to getting ground back in roation. dont like having to pick the stones after it either:(.

it does do a reliable job though

simx

PMU wrote: »

put it in tank before agitating, its been done before and it works

few times before when the field was bald looking in patches after silage we would suck up a small amount with the a pipe through the small side filling point,(2") and it worked a treat

Atilathehun

simx wrote: »

few times before when the field was bald looking in patches after silage we would suck up a small amount with the a pipe through the small side filling point,(2") and it worked a treat

Dock seeds, in the slurry, which were ingested by the cattle over the winter, sure get spread in the slurry, and generally have green leaves sprouting, by the time you get the vacuum tank back to the yard:rolleyes:

If only grass seed was as determined:p

Attie

Joat
Brother in law has one of the comb harrow's that is spoke of in the video you posted he says it's a great job never seen any of it's work just taking his word.

bob charles

JOAT wrote: »

Pretty interesting stuff. Would it not be better to spray off the old grasses before doing this type of reseeding? They didn't mention anything about killing off old grass from what i heard anyway. Surely this would be one of the important aspects of reseeding in the first place so as to have a good cover of top quality grass

Allot of the time overseeding is just patchwork or trying to improve what is already there. I much prefer to get a total kill and then go and direct drill the field with the moore drill as seen at 1min 30sec. I do allot of acres for myself each year and it an invaluable tool.

tvo

interesting video going to reseed about 10acres using the chain harrow to loosen the soil and was wondering what fertilizer and at what rate to use.

49801

Atilathehun wrote: »

Dock seeds, in the slurry, which were ingested by the cattle over the winter, sure get spread in the slurry, and generally have green leaves sprouting, by the time you get the vacuum tank back to the yard:rolleyes:

If only grass seed was as determined:p

i thought dock seeds in slurry was a myth

Attie

49801 wrote: »

i thought dock seeds in slurry was a myth

:eek::eek:

49801

Attie wrote: »

:eek::eek:

I really doubt dock seeds survive the passage through the rumen

we started reseeding in 2007 and its only this year that docks are starting to become a problem again. all slurry gets returned to this ground as it is our silage ground.

Attie

49801 wrote: »

I really doubt dock seeds survive the passage through the rumen

we started reseeding in 2007 and its only this year that docks are starting to become a problem again. all slurry gets returned to this ground as it is our silage ground.

49801
Always found the need to try to keep on top of docks
have a read at this about half way down page.
http://lazydogtools.co.uk/weeds_docks.html

49801

Attie wrote: »

49801
Always found the need to try to keep on top of docks
have a read at this about half way down page.
http://lazydogtools.co.uk/weeds_docks.html

just because a manufacturer says its true don't make it so

see page 30

Attie

49801 wrote: »

just because a manufacturer says its true don't make it so

see page 30

49801
If I'm reading it right we both have got it right.
Missed that artical as no reseeding this year

restive

I did some overseeding last april using hybrid ryegrass. It worked out well. I was advised to use the hybrid seed as it is more aggressive than perrinial ryegrass seed.

Does anybody have a preference in the type of seed for overseeding?

yellow50HX

Yeah I was thinking the idea of spreading seed through wouldn't be great for new seed, there is plenty of other seed floating around in the slurry. Plus you need the existing grass to draw the goodness in from the slurry. Fit your going to put in new seed into an old paddock best to kill off what's there first.

As for the anti ploughing side, it's best to plough if you have a badly poached field of if it's very fought, the harrow won't do much for holes. Also noticed at lot of people are doing lot of runs with a harrow from looking at the posts up to 7 or 8. Mightn't be great for compaction if your going over and back a lot.

As for the setting the seed, it's best. Just to cover the seed, look how well grass grows down the middle of the roads.

larthehar

reseeded last year doing the following:
Spraying 10 days prior to cutting silage
discing three ways with heavy duty disc harrow
breaking up sods with a chain harrow (2 runs)
lime (neutralised old sods)
spread grass seeds, perennial ryegrass (very important to get good seed, awful lot of sh!t out there)
rolled

At the time I wasn't awfully happy with it, as it had not been reseeded in bout 30yrs there were large, old sods on top of the ground. Thought it might smother the new seeds and it was a little rough. Made a lovely recovery, great to have a fresh pick for the lambs! having 5+ budgeted for this year, thinking of discing, liming and then 1 pass (power harrow to break the sods?) I would plough only I don't have time to pick the infinite amount of stones it would rise!! Any thoughts on the power harrowing to break up sods? anyone else have this trouble?

Attie

larthehar wrote: »

reseeded last year doing the following:
Spraying 10 days prior to cutting silage
discing three ways with heavy duty disc harrow
breaking up sods with a chain harrow (2 runs)
lime (neutralised old sods)
spread grass seeds, perennial ryegrass (very important to get good seed, awful lot of sh!t out there)
rolled

At the time I wasn't awfully happy with it, as it had not been reseeded in bout 30yrs there were large, old sods on top of the ground. Thought it might smother the new seeds and it was a little rough. Made a lovely recovery,

Artheha
Could you possibly go a bit easer with the disk or not weight her down as much or better still just hit it a few times with a comb harrow as in Rellig's video.
Attie