pub serv. TAX FREE PENSION LUMP SUMS TO COST THE GOVERNMENT €600,000,000.00 THIS YEAR

gigino

It says in the Sunday business post today, page 2 article ( its their main page 2 article, at the top of the page ) how there are 7000 public servants retiring with an average tax free lump sum of €81,000 and an annnual pension of €27,000. http://www.businesspost.ie/

Elsewhere in the paper there are pages advising people what to do with this windfall. What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

Vizzy

Give it to charity ?

Phill Ewinn

Tis grand.

gigino

they have loads of advertisers targeting these lucky people with their lump sums who are retiring in the coming weeks. I'd be temped to consider some of their advertisers . A mercedes, an exotic holiday and a cheap apartment with the balance of the windfall.

Ricardo G

You'd buy a nice house in the country for 81k

Senna

If you're at retirement age and have been working in the PS during the septic tiger, then you're already on the "pigs back" and €81000 to them isn't such a big deal as it would be to me or most other people reading.

AngryBollix

Because theyre worth it

mawk

they could buy a nice sturdy umbrella?

always good to have

ilovesleep

I read somewhere that one of the biggest outgoings of public expeniture is the pension bill.

dxhound2005

gigino wrote: »

It says in the Sunday business post today, page 2 article ( its their main page 2 article, at the top of the page ) how there are 7000 public servants retiring with an average tax free lump sum of €81,000 and an annnual pension of €27,000. http://www.businesspost.ie/

Elsewhere in the paper there are pages advising people what to do with this windfall. What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

I'm not buying a subscription to the Sunday Business Post to read old news. It was all over the papers a month ago.

squod

gigino wrote: »

What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

there's a sale on in Argos.

ilovesleep wrote: »

I read somewhere that one of the biggest outgoings of public expeniture is the pension bill.

€180bn AFAIK

benway

I'd start off by pointing out that the January payment to unsecured Anglo bond holders was over twice the entire amount of the lump sums paid to 7000 Irish workers. Just in case anyone might need a bit of perspective.

woodoo

I'd buy 2 apartments gigino like all those retired guards you told us about do.

marketty

I'd put every penny in to unsecured bonds and screw the country twice

MickySticks

Bag of cans

gigino

benway wrote: »

I'd start off by pointing out that the January payment to unsecured Anglo bond holders was over twice the entire amount of the lump sums paid to 7000 Irish workers.

And who decided the taxpayer should guarantee the Irish banks? The public service ( government backed up by other parts of the public service).

woodoo

gigino wrote: »

And who decided the taxpayer should guarantee the Irish banks? The public service ( government backed up by other parts of the public service).

Was it not elected politicians that decided.

gigino

woodoo wrote: »

Was it not elected politicians that decided.

they are public servants,elected by the people

policarp

Pub Service.?
Slow. . .
No tip. . .

gigino

81k tax free tip.;)

Pride Fighter

gigino wrote: »

It says in the Sunday business post today, page 2 article ( its their main page 2 article, at the top of the page ) how there are 7000 public servants retiring with an average tax free lump sum of €81,000 and an annnual pension of €27,000. http://www.businesspost.ie/

Elsewhere in the paper there are pages advising people what to do with this windfall. What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

I think they deserve their tax free windfall for working for the public good for over 50 years and paying over 80% of their wages in the 1970's.

longshanks

Wipe my arse with fifties.
Get speeding tickets.
Pay fines with said fifties.
????
Profit.

mikemac1

The same public service that required newly married women to resign their jobs.
And it wasn't that long ago

So lose their pensions that were paying into

But the ones who were left and stayed working get their pensions and tax free lump sum.
For them to get that money others had to pay into the system and get nothing back.
Well partially funded it anyway, even if it's a small percentage

Yakult

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Tis grand.

Its not grand,
Tis eighty one grand on average supposedly!

gigino

Yakult wrote: »

Its not grand,
Tis eighty one grand on average supposedly!

The TV advertising for the Sunday Business Post really highlighted the fact that yesterdays paper was devoted to the 7000 retriring public servants, but what was really surprising was how so much of the paper was devoted to what to do with the tax free lump sum. Pages and pages of advice on the different types of bank accounts for lump sum amounts, ads for fancy luxury cars, pages of advice on where to go on exotic holidays etc. It was like reading those suppliments in what to do with the SSIA windfall 3 years ago, except this time the advertisers know the lump sum is much bigger and the people getting it generally have their kids reared, mortgages paid off etc.

Paulzx

gigino wrote: »

It says in the Sunday business post today, page 2 article ( its their main page 2 article, at the top of the page ) how there are 7000 public servants retiring with an average tax free lump sum of €81,000 and an annnual pension of €27,000. http://www.businesspost.ie/

Elsewhere in the paper there are pages advising people what to do with this windfall. What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

Ah.....not again.

You really need to get a hobby

Paulzx

woodoo wrote: »

I'd buy 2 apartments gigino like all those retired guards you told us about do.

I think you can get 6 in Leitrim

the groutch

It's like the SSIAs all over again

Stiffler2

I'd purchase the portrait of Bertie in the Dáil, then I'd buy a small slot on RTE advertising between 6:15pm-6:20pm ( primetime )

I would then deffecate on said portrait live on air.

gigino

the groutch wrote: »

It's like the SSIAs all over again

except the average public service windfall gratuity lump sum of €81,000 will go a lot further than the SSIA's which were only ten or twenty grand.

Tomk1

No mention of thier annual pay? I assume it's not far of the 81grand, opps sorry... 81,000.00€.

So 7,000 highly paid S.S will no longer be drawing a wage, and many will not be replaced, so in the longer run, 5yrs ?? a saving to tax payer.

Tis moanday

Riskymove

gigino wrote: »

It says in the Sunday business post today, page 2 article ( its their main page 2 article, at the top of the page ) how there are 7000 public servants retiring with an average tax free lump sum of €81,000 and an annnual pension of €27,000. http://www.businesspost.ie/

Elsewhere in the paper there are pages advising people what to do with this windfall. What would you do with a tax free €81,000 ?

well firstly, there is the lazy journalism bit to tidy up

PS leaving under the early retirement scheme only get 10% of their lump sum and get the rest when they would have normally (e.g. 65). So all the money is not paid in one go but over a number of years


Secondly all such pension lump sums (for both private and public sector) are tax-free up to €200,000 tax-free; it isn't a PS exclusive

Riskymove

ilovesleep wrote: »

I read somewhere that one of the biggest outgoings of public expeniture is the pension bill.

you read wrong

Unless you are talking about OAP maybe?

yermanoffthetv

Riskymove wrote: »

well firstly, there is the lazy journalism bit to tidy up

PS leaving under the early retirement scheme only get 10% of their lump sum and get the rest when they would have normally (e.g. 65). So all the money is not paid in one go but over a number of years


Secondly all such pension lump sums (for both private and public sector) are tax-free up to €200,000 tax-free; it isn't a PS exclusive

Id also like to ad that "average" lump sum does not mean the modal value as in most PS workers wont be waking away with anything near that figure.

Lazy journalist is lazy.

Riskymove

Ah Gigino, this thread is full of your usual fun about averages, it really brings me back!!

The figures seem to be based on using an average salary of €54,000 for the 7,700 retirees - no data on how this was worked out

they have then suggested that this means the average lumpsum, will be €81,000 and the average pension €27,000

this is very lazy maths tbh


the actual figures are the only data that can accurately work out the averages

Riskymove

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Id also like to ad that "average" lump sum does not mean the modal value as in most PS workers wont be waking away with anything near that figure.

oh never fear, the OP realises that fully, he just doesn't worry about such technicalities

gigino

Riskymove wrote: »

The figures seem to be based on using an average salary of €54,000 for the 7,700 retirees - no data on how this was worked out

they have then suggested that this means the average lumpsum, will be €81,000 and the average pension €27,000

this is very lazy maths tbh


the actual figures are the only data that can accurately work out the averages

If you take the trouble to read the Sunday Business Post article in depth, you will see the figures above were all provided for the SBP by the public service themselves.

Riskymove

gigino wrote: »

If you take the trouble to read the Sunday Business Post article in depth, you will see the figures above were all provided for the SBP by the public service themselves.

you have to subscribe to read the article

perhaps you might post the full article here?

yermanoffthetv

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Id also like to ad that "average" lump sum does not mean the modal value as in most PS workers wont be waking away with anything near that figure.

Lazy journalist is lazy.

What is the figure that most of them will walk away with then?

Riskymove

gigino wrote: »

If you take the trouble to read the Sunday Business Post article in depth, you will see the figures above were all provided for the SBP by the public service themselves.

here is the quote

The department said that the average public sector pension was €27,000 a year, meaning the average lump sum payment on retirement is €81,000.

'meaning' is the key

The €27,000 is the figure provided by the PS

The Business Post has assumed the €81,000 based on this; imo this is lazy maths and the actual figure is likely to be less than that

What is the figure that most of them will walk away with then?

well exactly, that's whats unknown

many will get less than the €27,000/€81,000 and there are those that will get more, indeed some will get much more

however, the generalisations and use of averages is applied unfairly to many lower paid PS

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

here is the quote



'meaning' is the key

The €27,000 is the figure provided by the PS

The Business Post has assumed the €81,000 based on this; imo this is lazy maths and the actual figure is likely to be less than that



well exactly, that's whats unknown

many will get less than the €27,000/€81,000 and there are those that will get more, indeed some will get much more

however, the generalisations and use of averages is applied unfairly to many lower paid PS

There are around 7000 people retiring from the Public Service.



How many of the 7000 do you suppose are made up of highly paid/skilled people who are leaving?

I mean the consultants, assistant commissioners, etc.
Maybe a few hundred? Max 500, maybe?


Are you saying that the jumbo lumpsums and pensions of the few highly paid and specialised people leaving is enough to bring up the average of the other 6000 up to €27,000/€81,000 ?

tayto lover

gigino wrote: »

81k tax free tip.;)

Bet your sorry you didn't make it now. Where did you finally end up ?

gigino

Riskymove wrote: »

The €27,000 is the figure provided by the PS

The Business Post has assumed the €81,000 based on this; imo this is lazy maths and the actual figure is likely to be less than that

You are wrong again there. If you take the trouble to either look up the link or else buy the newspaper yesterday - as I did - you will read that it was a spokesperson in the public service who said that the average lump sum was €81,000

Freddie59

benway wrote: »

I'd start off by pointing out that the January payment to unsecured Anglo bond holders was over twice the entire amount of the lump sums paid to 7000 Irish workers. Just in case anyone might need a bit of perspective.

And two wrongs don't make a right. Just in case anyone needs to focus their mind.:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I think they deserve their tax free windfall for working for the public good for over 50 years and paying over 80% of their wages in the 1970's.

The Waterford Crystal Workers did the same. In August 2008 the company asked for a €25m LOAN to help keep the company afloat. They were told to eff off by the same Government that squandered billions on the banks.

So pardon me if I don't agree with your outlook on these 'wonderful' people. 'The public good' my hole. Their own pocket.

tigger123

The usual suspects are all over this thread, like broken records that just go round and round and round and round ...

coach23

Freddie59 wrote: »

The Waterford Crystal Workers did the same. In August 2008 the company asked for a €25m LOAN to help keep the company afloat. They were told to eff off by the same Government that squandered billions on the banks.

So pardon me if I don't agree with your outlook on these 'wonderful' people. 'The public good' my hole. Their own pocket.

You're assuming that the 7000 retiring members of the public service are the same public servants that made the decision to deny that loan, your wrong.

In reality the majority are normal people doing a job you may have used over their long working life at some stage, at best they might have made middle management but not Policy makers. The few that are big wigs are pushing up the averages here.
Most of the lump sums will go to clearing mortgages or other loans before their incomes are halved.

benway

Freddie59 wrote: »

And two wrongs don't make a right. Just in case anyone needs to focus their mind.:rolleyes:

Not saying they do.

It's just that I had a suspicion for some reason that maybe some posters might latch on to this and tie it in to their attempts to blame the whole economic catastrophe on "public sector inefficiency", "red tape", or whatever the neoliberal buzzword of the week happens to be.

I mean, it's not like the O'Reilly press and the True Believers (tm) of The Markets (tm) and Individual Freedom (tm) would try to thrash some kind of ideological point out of this ... would they? :rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

The tax payer's responsibility for PS pensions should be done away with altogether.

Any pension administered on behalf of the tax paying public should be done in the case of need i.e. the ~€200 (?) a week to prevent poverty and destitution.

People have all their working lives to get their shit together so there's no excuse.

Freddie59

coach23 wrote: »

You're assuming that the 7000 retiring members of the public service are the same public servants that made the decision to deny that loan, your wrong.

In reality the majority are normal people doing a job you may have used over their long working life at some stage, at best they might have made middle management but not Policy makers. The few that are big wigs are pushing up the averages here.
Most of the lump sums will go to clearing mortgages or other loans before their incomes are halved.

No. What I am saying is that one company was refused State aid; and that same aid (multiplied by thousands) given to defunct businesses which have bankrupted Ireland. Which brings me to my next point. The Public Sector appears it is immune to this catastrophe. In a normal company there would have been statutory redundancies, huge hob reductions, and wage cuts to beat the band.

However, the idiot Government and the blind civl servants that lead them believe it can go on forever. It cannot. There is talk of the Public/Private sector divide. It is this type of discriminatory favouritism that caused it.

Freddie59

tigger123 wrote: »

The usual suspects are all over this thread, like broken records that just go round and round and round and round ...

In a lot of those cases the truth is being spoken. Some don't want to hear it.