pub serv. TAX FREE PENSION LUMP SUMS TO COST THE GOVERNMENT €600,000,000.00 THIS YEAR

Seanchai

Teachers are bastards. They should be all dragged over to Kilmainham Jail and shot some summer morning.

I'm sure that Gigino, being British, would be more than willing to oblige.

---

AND WHAT'S THE STORY WITH THE CAPS, MISTER? STRUGGLING TO EXPRESS YOURSELF THERE, MISTER?

coach23

Freddie59 wrote: »

No. What I am saying is that one company was refused State aid; and that same aid (multiplied by thousands) given to defunct businesses which have bankrupted Ireland. Which brings me to my next point. The Public Sector appears it is immune to this catastrophe. In a normal company there would have been statutory redundancies, huge hob reductions, and wage cuts to beat the band.

However, the idiot Government and the blind civl servants that lead them believe it can go on forever. It cannot. There is talk of the Public/Private sector divide. It is this type of discriminatory favouritism that caused it.

It has nothing to do with 7000 public sector workers retiring.

Public sector workers have had cuts already, calling it a levy doesn't make it any different

Chuck Stone

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm sure that Gigino, being British, would be more than willing to oblige.

I disagree with gigino on everything when it come to the historical role of the British in Ireland but I can park it when it comes to an issue such as PS pensions which are costing us a fortune apparently.

Seanchai

Freddie59 wrote: »

The Waterford Crystal Workers did the same. In August 2008 the company asked for a €25m LOAN to help keep the company afloat. They were told to eff off by the same Government that squandered billions on the banks.

So pardon me if I don't agree with your outlook on these 'wonderful' people. 'The public good' my hole. Their own pocket.

Hold on a minute. If you follow Independent Newspapers at this time closely you'll find it suddenly went into deep investigations into Enterprise Ireland, and other sections of the public service, following this refusal by Enterprise Ireland and these sections to bail out O'Reilly's investment in Waterford Crystal.

What the plebs rarely notice is how other sections of O'Reilly's interests, to be precise Independent Newspapers, then gang up on the very same state elements which protect our interests.

This state should never be used to bail out Anthony O'Reilly and his failures, particularly when he threatens to use Independent Newspapers to undermine the careers of civil and public servants who refuse the demands of his companies like Waterford Wedgwood.

Irish people are still depressingly ignorant of the unrivalled power Anthony O'Reilly exerts in Irish political life by virtue of threatening to unleash the dogs of his newspapers on any organisation, individual or politician who stands in the way of his business interests.

The Irish state was 100% correct to refuse to give any more money over to O'Reilly's Waterford Wedgwood.

Seanchai

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I disagree with gigino on everything when it come to the historical role of the British in Ireland but I can park it when it comes to an issue such as PS pensions which are costing us a fortune apparently.

How about starting with Bertie Ahern and his €152,000 pension? (let's forget about the house he got as a gift or all that money he "won on the races" or those "cheques he signed without looking" for a moment) Or the other 29 former ministers who are entitled to pensions of over €100,000 per year? People who've been getting pensions since they stopped serving at ministers, which could have been at 38 years of age.

Better still, how about examining the sort of pensions each and every member of the current government will receive? At least the rest of the public service when they retire, usually in their 60s, cannot go on such massive money as a "pension" each year from their 30s or 40s.

The pensions of former government ministers, and the ages they can receive them from, is the most sickening thing about the public service pension. To imply this is the sort of pension which teachers and gardaí get, as the OP is doing, is sensationalist tabloid nonsense.

PS: Give the OP time and he'll explain it all by the Irish people being inferior to Brits like himself. Plus ca change....

steddyeddy

When are people going to learn that we cant afford the current rate of spending and we all need to pay more tax, no area is exempt except this.

kirving

I love how the thread title has the cents in in it, to make it appear like a larger number. Also, rounding to the cent, or euro, or thousand even is pointless when your talking millions.

Seanchai

steddyeddy wrote: »

When are people going to learn that we cant afford the current rate of spending and we all need to pay more tax, no area is exempt except this.

The Irish Times reported a few weeks ago that of the 620 millionaires in the Irish state, almost half of them pay under 30% tax.

Clearly, many rich people in this great republic where we're all supposed to be cherished as equals have no intention of paying more tax, and more importantly neither have the overpaid politicians of this state - I write it out in a verse, Kenny, Gilmore, Noonan, Varadkar... - any intention of forcing them to pay their fair share. A party political donation will keep that legislation off the books!

It is PAYE workers, including public sector PAYE employees, who are taking the burden much more than any other section.

steddyeddy

Seanchai wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

When are people going to learn that we cant afford the current rate of spending and we all need to pay more tax, no area is exempt except this.

The Irish Times reported a few weeks ago that of the 620 millionaires in the Irish state, almost half of them pay under 30% tax.

Clearly, many rich people in this great republic where we're all supposed to be cherished as equals have no intention of paying more tax, and more importantly neither have the overpaid politicians of this state - I write it out in verse, Kenny, Gilmore, Noonan, Varadkar... - have any intention of forcing them to.

It is PAYE workers, including public sector PAYE employees, who are taking the burden much more than any other section.

Its a joke and a half. The people in this country need to stop accepting the tripe that the same people again and again need to take the cuts.

The_Thing

I'm thinking of taking the first of my "Duvet" days shortly, gigino. Hope that's OK with you?

Oafley Jones

I love how gigino has to post this in after hours because he well knows that his drivel can't stand up to any of the analysis that it'd get in the politics forums.

People like gigino are a mystery to me, ranting and raving about issues that they seem happily ignorant about. There's no real analysis, no insight just hysterical chest beating. Give the amount of energy he devotes to this extremely important issue you'd at least think he might try to critically engage with the material he presents but no like a well trained monkey he just dances away to the familiar organ tune. Its was this sort of irritantial exuberance and lack of thinking that helped get us into this mess in the first place, does anyone really think that the same failures will get us out.

gerryo777

woodoo wrote: »

Was it not elected politicians that decided.

On the advice of the country's 'top' civil servants in the dept. of finance.

benway

On the advice of their mates in Anglo, more like. Or can the private sector do no wrong at all?

The_Thing

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I love how gigino has to post this in after hours because he well knows that his drivel can't stand up to any of the analysis that it'd get in the politics forums.

People like gigino are a mystery to me, ranting and raving about issues that they seem happily ignorant about. There's no real analysis, no insight just hysterical chest beating. Give the amount of energy he devotes to this extremely important issue you'd at least think he might try to critically engage with the material he presents but no like a well trained monkey he just dances away to the familiar organ tune. Its was this sort of irritantial exuberance and lack of thinking that helped get us into this mess in the first place, does anyone really think that the same failures will get us out.

His application for a job with the IMF was rejected as they felt Ireland would be better served if he was posting here in AH and keeping us all amused.

gerryo777

Freddie59 wrote: »

The Waterford Crystal Workers did the same. In August 2008 the company asked for a €25m LOAN to help keep the company afloat. They were told to eff off by the same Government that squandered billions on the banks.

So pardon me if I don't agree with your outlook on these 'wonderful' people. 'The public good' my hole. Their own pocket.

I remember them saying at the time that it wasn't the governments job to bail out private business, roll on a few month and they guarantee the f***ing banks!:mad:

gerryo777

benway wrote: »

On the advice of their mates in Anglo, more like. Or can the private sector do no wrong at all?

The banks, fianna fail & the developers, a cesspool of scum!

gigino

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm sure that Gigino, being British, would be more than willing to oblige.

Actually I'm as Irish as anyone else, born and bred in Ireland like my ancestors before me. Not that my nationality is any of your business, or of any relevance to this thread.

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I love how gigino has to post this in after hours because he well knows that his drivel can't stand up to any of the analysis that it'd get in the politics forums.

People like gigino are a mystery to me, ranting and raving about issues that they seem happily ignorant about. There's no real analysis, no insight just hysterical chest beating.

I was quoting from the Sunday Business Post, which I bought and which has pages devoted to it.;)

Freddie59

Seanchai wrote: »

Hold on a minute. If you follow Independent Newspapers at this time closely you'll find it suddenly went into deep investigations into Enterprise Ireland, and other sections of the public service, following this refusal by Enterprise Ireland and these sections to bail out O'Reilly's investment in Waterford Crystal.

What the plebs rarely notice is how other sections of O'Reilly's interests, to be precise Independent Newspapers, then gang up on the very same state elements which protect our interests.

This state should never be used to bail out Anthony O'Reilly and his failures, particularly when he threatens to use Independent Newspapers to undermine the careers of civil and public servants who refuse the demands of his companies like Waterford Wedgwood.

Irish people are still depressingly ignorant of the unrivalled power Anthony O'Reilly exerts in Irish political life by virtue of threatening to unleash the dogs of his newspapers on any organisation, individual or politician who stands in the way of his business interests.

The Irish state was 100% correct to refuse to give any more money over to O'Reilly's Waterford Wedgwood.

But is right to borrow 400m a week for PS wages et al to keep these people in the lifestyle they're accustomed to? Then pay out lump sums and pensions which the "State" (nice term) hasn't got? Yeah, leaving a company that was worth millions in tourism go to the wall instead was a truly wonderful decision. Sweet Jesus.:rolleyes:

Freddie59

The_Thing wrote: »

His application for a job with the IMF was rejected as they felt Ireland would be better served if he was posting here in AH and keeping us all amused.

Trouble is, the truth is quite bitter. If it wasn't so serious, the amusing thing is the PS reps on here with their heads up their own arses, hoping it will all go away somehow.

Odysseus

tigger123 wrote: »

The usual suspects are all over this thread, like broken records that just go round and round and round and round ...

Yeah, it's terrible in a way, before I opened the thread the usual names popped into my mind. I guess it is like a hobby for some, though Freud looked at racism as the "narcissism of minor differences", when the person becomes focused/obsessed on the difference between them and the Other. It is an interesting comparison the more I think on it.

The thing is people don't realise the effect this mass exodus will have on the skill level in various sectors. I'm there much longer but only paying the pension for the last 11 years so it wasn't worth my time looking at the offer [I think I get my LSI Long Service Increment next month, for what it's worth:rolleyes:] . However, it is the people with long service and therefore high quality skills that are leaving and they will be missed over the coming months.

benway

In the interests of full disclosure, I am not in the PS, but my job means that I work closely with them. My impression is that incompetence, lethargy, jobsworths, money-for-nothing, corruption and downright stupidity are equally prevalent on both sides of the line.

Actually, I can only think of one, maybe two, examples of real incompetence on the PS side that I deal with. And, as it happens, I know one senior public servant I know has been off the payroll for nearly a month now, but is still coming in to help out and to wrap things up.

I'm just sooooooo sick of people stoking this public/private divide, as if there's any reality to it ... repeat after me:

This is not a valid opportunity to put the boot into the public services;
We can't expect people to forego the pensions they've worked 40 or 50 years for;
The public sector isn't the problem anyway, it's the price of bailing out the banks;
What does AJF and co expect them to do anyway, commit seppuku?

squod

Odysseus wrote: »

However, it is the people with long service and therefore high quality skills that are leaving and they will be missed over the coming months.

Can I ask who organised it? This was on the cards before FF retired themselves early. It's been on the cards for months like. Who organised the cross training before the staff left ?

tigger123

Odysseus wrote: »

Yeah, it's terrible in a way, before I opened the thread the usual names popped into my mind. I guess it is like a hobby for some, though Freud looked at racism as the "narcissism of minor differences", when the person becomes focused/obsessed on the difference between them and the Other. It is an interesting comparison the more I think on it.

The thing is people don't realise the effect this mass exodus will have on the skill level in various sectors. I'm there much longer but only paying the pension for the last 11 years so it wasn't worth my time looking at the offer [I think I get my LSI Long Service Increment next month, for what it's worth:rolleyes:] . However, it is the people with long service and therefore high quality skills that are leaving and they will be missed over the coming months.

It's not worth engaging with people with such an agenda, it's a waste of energy.

From the media coverage it's been receiving there's a real brain-drain going on at the moment, there's a lot of skills and expertise being lost because of this. I think it may have been a bit short sighted by the Government... I'm not even sure how much money it's going to save in the long run???

Odysseus

squod wrote: »

Can I ask who organised it? This was on the cards before FF retired themselves early. It's been on the cards for months like. Who organised the cross training before the staff left ?

Sorry are you asking why other in the same building are not trained to do the work of others?

In my case it would be illegal for me to do some work that members of my team do; and I'm not qualified [and vise versa] to do some of the work that members of my team do.

Seriously cross training??????

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you, but cross training is not suitable for a lot of professionals. To think that I can just take on another team members responsibilities, we are not all office/admin workers.

woodoo

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I love how gigino has to post this in after hours because he well knows that his drivel can't stand up to any of the analysis that it'd get in the politics forums..

He is permabanned from Irish Economy and i think Politics too for droning on and on and on and on and on about the same thing.

woodoo

Freddie59 wrote: »

But is right to borrow 400m a week for PS wages et al to keep these people in the lifestyle they're accustomed to?

They are borrowing that money for welfare and all other government costs too. Not just to pay public servants.

squod

Odysseus wrote: »

Sorry are you asking why other in the same building are not trained to do the work of others?

In my case it would be illegal for me to do some work that members of my team do; and I'm not qualified [and vise versa] to do some of the work that members of my team do.

Seriously cross training??????

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you, but cross training is not suitable for a lot of professionals. To think that I can just take on another team members responsibilities, we are not all office/admin workers.

Seriously? You don't cross train? I'd expect every modern company to have cross training policies in place. Whether you're a bio-chemist or you're frying burgers. That's the way business is run.

Professionals cross train because they know better than to leave their role to chance. This is fundamental stuff.

benway

squod wrote: »

Seriously? You don't cross train? I'd expect every modern company to have cross training policies in place. Whether you're a bio-chemist or you're frying burgers. That's the way business is run.

Professionals cross train because they know better than to leave their role to chance. This is fundamental stuff.

Doesn't happen in my office, where there would be no massive legal or practical impediment. Damned private sector inefficiency.

dr.bollocko

There is definitely scope within after hours for more discussion on this topic. However the use of caps lock and the numeric representation of loads of zeros designed for MAXIMUM SHOCK VALUE X 10000000000.0000090% whiffs of a bash agenda that doesn't really deserve more discussion tbh.