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Time : Expansion of The Universe
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20-02-2012 6:38am#1
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I know that but my question is why do we thing the "fabric of space" is expanding and not the galaxies moving inside a stationary infinite space?
In the simplest way to put it and i know you already know the vast majority of the principle, if not all. But, something is holding the galaxies together (we call it gravity) but the force of gravity we know is not enough to hold the visible galaxy together, there must be some type of "invisible" matter (stuff we dont know and cannot explain) unaccounted for which has come to be called dark matter to hold the galaxy together the way we see it (especially with colliding galaxies). If this really is the case then all galaxies should just collapse to form one unigalaxy if there were no force/affect accelerating them away from each other.
The reason we have so distant galaxies which the distance increases exponentially the way it does is because there is a force driving it. it was thought that the let me say "explosion" (expansion) would eventually slow down and contract back as gravity would take over (this is what was hoped to be confirmed). But so does not seem to be the case as it was observed that distant galaxies are actually accelerating away from other galaxies.
Since matter coalesces the way it does to form lets say these "galaxies" (which we now know some are formed around orbiting supermassive black holes (plural)) there does not seem to be an intrinsic quality inherint in a formed galaxy to want to repel another galaxy away from it (exactly like our local cluster, andromeda and the milky way are not repelling each other at all). so what would cause the more distant galaxies to repel each other.
Nothing is actually causing these galaxies to repel each other because the more distant the galaxies that are much further out from each other get the more this effect is occuring. So the more space /(more of a gap) between the galaxies the greater the effect has been observed. The more space it seems the faster these galaxies accelerate away from each other.
Otherwise you would be left thinking that the more distant two objects become the more effect they have on each other
. To use a horrible analogy here. The more distant you seperate siblings the more they influence each other, sorry for the very unsatisfactory analogy given the subject matter, i must apologise.
The reason space is expanding is still unknown and for now just like dark matter a placeholder; dark energy resides. What is this force/energy/property opposing (nay, completely overpowering) gravity with increasing distance/Space? Or is it just a runaway affect of an inflationary period that has just too much potential for gravity to counter as distances exponentially increase outside of its vast influence
Its not how far the galaxies are moving apart. But the increasing of space between these galaxies
Another horrible, more than likely unneccessary affliction on the reader: take the distance from a local building to your home, say 5 miles in line of sight (forget obstacles that would impede a straight walk to it). if you walk at 5 miles per hour you'll get there in an hour. If i move the building thus increasing the distance you have to walk by a factor of 2 at the same velocity it will take you twice the time to get there. Or say the building is still 5 miles away and you increase your velocity to 10 miles per hour. you will reach the destination in half an hour.
Now lets say i mess with your enviroment a little. the building is still 5 miles away from your home and you travel as in the first example at 5 miles per hour, but you no longer have a straight route to the building. lets say i have drawn a line that you can not veer from. this line extends 10 miles in one direction (at a 90degree angle to your line of sight with the building), 5 miles in another (another 90 degree turn in favour of the original line of sight direction from your house) and then another 10 miles in another direction (another 90 degree angle) that will take you to that building (basically walking 3 sides of a 10x5 rectangle to get to your destination 5 hours later, even increasing velocity by a factor of 2 results in a trip of 2 and a half hours, 2 hours longer than initially increasing velocity in the first example). Much less than halfway through i really thought to myself there was very little point in this exercise but i thought i would finish it anyway. Although i cant really liken that example to space expanding between 2 objects i did increase the distance without moving either object. Of which a result of the property of an expanding space between galaxies would force upon you.
The big bang (as the proponents of it call it) and as most think of it as merely an explosion that forced matter outward could have never forced anything out at all. but just expanded the space of an incredibly dense early universe. The matter is still where it once was but just in a different configuration as the process of inflation evolved. The inflationary device that just created space where there was none. The universe is much much much less dense than what it once was but who's to say it has to take up as much room now as when it did back then
The environment of World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto IV for example seems big, but definitely a much bigger environment to explore than the little storage device its stored on. World of Warcraft occupies just 5% of the storage space of my little 600GB SSD, How big an environment would be possible if it filled that capacity, How big if one were to keep adding more 2.5" SSDs of the same capacity or just use 4TB 3.5" HDD's. Food for thought? Virtual characteristics to our world....
Moot Point!? yes as without evidence or clues as to the real nature of reality, our universe, and a method to prove its validity a philosophers opinion is just that. Physicists, engineers, scientific apparatus etc. are the end game for that truth.
Time is timeless is merely wordplay. Time merely a word to describe an extraordinally complex observation of essentially a measureable construct born from the way we perceive a quality of reality.
Please excuse the ramblings, its late, and insomnia probably doesnt do the mind any favours0 -
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In the simplest way to put it and i know you already know the vast majority of the principle, if not all. But, something is holding the galaxies together (we call it gravity) but the force of gravity we know is not enough to hold the visible galaxy together, there must be some type of "invisible" matter (stuff we dont know and cannot explain) unaccounted for which has come to be called dark matter to hold the galaxy together the way we see it (especially with colliding galaxies). If this really is the case then all galaxies should just collapse to form one unigalaxy if there were no force/affect accelerating them away from each other.
The reason we have so distant galaxies which the distance increases exponentially the way it does is because there is a force driving it. it was thought that the let me say "explosion" (expansion) would eventually slow down and contract back as gravity would take over (this is what was hoped to be confirmed). But so does not seem to be the case as it was observed that distant galaxies are actually accelerating away from other galaxies.
Since matter coalesces the way it does to form lets say these "galaxies" (which we now know some are formed around orbiting supermassive black holes (plural)) there does not seem to be an intrinsic quality inherint in a formed galaxy to want to repel another galaxy away from it (exactly like our local cluster, andromeda and the milky way are not repelling each other at all). so what would cause the more distant galaxies to repel each other.
Nothing is actually causing these galaxies to repel each other because the more distant the galaxies that are much further out from each other get the more this effect is occuring. So the more space /(more of a gap) between the galaxies the greater the effect has been observed. The more space it seems the faster these galaxies accelerate away from each other.
Otherwise you would be left thinking that the more distant two objects become the more effect they have on each other. To use a horrible analogy here. The more distant you seperate siblings the more they influence each other, sorry for the very unsatisfactory analogy given the subject matter, i must apologise.
The reason space is expanding is still unknown and for now just like dark matter a placeholder; dark energy resides. What is this force/energy/property opposing (nay, completely overpowering) gravity with increasing distance/Space? Or is it just a runaway affect of an inflationary period that has just too much potential for gravity to counter as distances exponentially increase outside of its vast influence
Its not how far the galaxies are moving apart. But the increasing of space between these galaxies
Another horrible, more than likely unneccessary affliction on the reader: take the distance from a local building to your home, say 5 miles in line of sight (forget obstacles that would impede a straight walk to it). if you walk at 5 miles per hour you'll get there in an hour. If i move the building thus increasing the distance you have to walk by a factor of 2 at the same velocity it will take you twice the time to get there. Or say the building is still 5 miles away and you increase your velocity to 10 miles per hour. you will reach the destination in half an hour.
Now lets say i mess with your enviroment a little. the building is still 5 miles away from your home and you travel as in the first example at 5 miles per hour, but you no longer have a straight route to the building. lets say i have drawn a line that you can not veer from. this line extends 10 miles in one direction (at a 90degree angle to your line of sight with the building), 5 miles in another (another 90 degree turn in favour of the original line of sight direction from your house) and then another 10 miles in another direction (another 90 degree angle) that will take you to that building (basically walking 3 sides of a 10x5 rectangle to get to your destination 5 hours later, even increasing velocity by a factor of 2 results in a trip of 2 and a half hours, 2 hours longer than initially increasing velocity in the first example). Much less than halfway through i really thought to myself there was very little point in this exercise but i thought i would finish it anyway. Although i cant really liken that example to space expanding between 2 objects i did increase the distance without moving either object. Of which a result of the property of an expanding space between galaxies would force upon you.
The big bang (as the proponents of it call it) and as most think of it as merely an explosion that forced matter outward could have never forced anything out at all. but just expanded the space of an incredibly dense early universe. The matter is still where it once was but just in a different configuration as the process of inflation evolved. The inflationary device that just created space where there was none. The universe is much much much less dense than what it once was but who's to say it has to take up as much room now as when it did back then
The environment of World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto IV for example seems big, but definitely a much bigger environment to explore than the little storage device its stored on. World of Warcraft occupies just 5% of the storage space of my little 600GB SSD, How big an environment would be possible if it filled that capacity, How big if one were to keep adding more 2.5" SSDs of the same capacity or just use 4TB 3.5" HDD's. Food for thought? Virtual characteristics to our world....
Moot Point!? yes as without evidence or clues as to the real nature of reality, our universe, and a method to prove its validity a philosophers opinion is just that. Physicists, engineers, scientific apparatus etc. are the end game for that truth.
Time is timeless is merely wordplay. Time merely a word to describe an extraordinally complex observation of essentially a measureable construct born from the way we perceive a quality of reality.
Please excuse the ramblings, its late, and insomnia probably doesnt do the mind any favours
Simple analogy.
Get a long strip of paper. Fold it back on itself many times so it looks like an accordian.
Put two dots on the paper 5cm from the middle. Put two dots on the paper 10cm from the middle.
If you pull on both ends of the paper to straighten it out, the dots which are 10cm from the middle are moving away from each other at a faster rate than the two dots which are 5cm from the middle.0 -
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