Time : Expansion of The Universe

gkell3

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

From the same link

"Both the stellar day and the sidereal day are shorter than the mean solar day by about 3 minutes 56 seconds."

For God sake read the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day

You will see the sun rise and set today just as you did yesterday and you will tomorrow,There is no reason it will not continue to do this as one 24 hour day turns into the next where the Earth turns once a day and 1461 times in 1461 days so an observer working off the foundation of common experience can go into the details of the Lat/Long system which ,to the nearest rotation, maintains the proportion of rotations to orbital circuits ,in this case 1461 to 4 and 365 1/4 rotations to 1 orbital circuit.

The details of the Lat/Long system is that the Earth is divided evenly from North to South poles (following the rotational traits of the Earth) where 15 degrees distance equates to 1 hour difference or 1 degrees equates to 4 minutes.The reason you have an accurate clock at all is because they discovered that if you have an accurate clock and can keep it set to a location on a longitude meridian,once you find natural noon at your location,the difference between local noon and the time it says on the clock will represent distance traveled East or West of that location.It is important to know which latitude the determination of local noon is made at because the Earth has a maximum equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour and diminishes to 0 at polar latitudes.This is the actual history behind the invention of clocks linked to the Earth's rotation and its geography/geometry

http://accessscience.com/loadBinary.aspx?aID=9853&filename=685400FG0010.gif


The entire narrative is stabilized using the terms AM/PM,the event which happens daily as a location passes in front of the Sun at noon.Although the total length of each daily cycle is unequal in that daily rotation is mixed together with variations in orbital speed of the Earth,the Earth still rotates 1461 times for 4 orbital circuits or,as the Egyptians noted it, 1461 days in 4 years.

Work through the details bit by bit,never leave the geography of the Earth or common experience and it will be possible to give the world back a genuine fact that was nearly lost .The Ra/Dec system on which you base your reasoning is fine as a convenience but it becomes parasitic if attached to the Lat/Long system,the original clockmakers often checked the accuracy of their watches using the return of a star to their meridian but circumpolar motion is only useful for determining the rotational alignment of the Earth and nothing more.

What many try to do is bundle the Ra/Dec system with the Lat/Long system and come up with a mess,they want the Earth to rotate to the Sun in 24 hours and forget that this doesn't happen as the natural days are unequal but this is the same thing as 'big bang',ignoring an observation to maintain a conclusion that doesn't work and has no internal logical consistency.

The Earth turns once in 24 hour,100 times in 100 days and five thousand times in five thousand days for everyone here will have experienced them one way or another.

Rubecula

GKell. This is going to sound nasty and i know it, but I can't really think of any other way to say it in a properly polite way. Perhaps if I could tell you verbally you would understand better.
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Read SLADE_X post on how the Earth has to rotate more than 360 degrees in one day due to the fact it is also moving in a circular orbit. It is simple, easy to understand and basic.

Failing that draw the diagram yourself and then count the number of degrees it must turn.

Noon (sun overhead) to Noon the following day is MORE than 360 degrees. It is MORE than one rotation. Over time this increases to become enough time to include another day per number of rotations.

If you are incapable of understanding this very simple principle I really think you should cease to post on the subject as you are becoming very frustrating (and in my case a tad annoying) to post to. You seem to deliberately avoid questions you can't answer. If you can't answer them say so. The folks in here have tried to be understanding with you, but all you seem to be capable of is Trolling your own ideas to the exclusion of all else.

King Mob

Rubecula wrote: »

If you can't answer them say so. The folks in here have tried to be understanding with you, but all you seem to be capable of is Trolling your own ideas to the exclusion of all else.

Not only that, but I've asked him several times to just outline his position rather than address questions he has no desire or ability to answer. As with the other stuff he ignored it dishonestly and continues to pretend that I never asked in the first please.

gkell3

Rubecula wrote: »

What is a Big Banger? Someone who believes the Big Bang happened?

What do you wish to be called ,perhaps a 'big bangist' instead ?

Rubecula wrote: »

If that is what you mean then I am one of those. AND nowhere have I said anything about 1465 rotations in 1461 days.

So where you get this idea from I have no clue......

As for there being more rotations than there are days, read Slade_X post above this. It is simple enough for even the most blinkered of minds to understand.

Here we go again,you are holding two contradictory views simultaneously as Ra/Dec reasoning asserts 1465 rotations in 1461 days whereas the normal experience of a 24 hour day and its effects indicate 1461 rotations in 1461 days with February 29th as the 1461st day and rotation closing out 4 orbital circuits of the Earth,at least to the nearest rotation.

I am not trying to convince you that the Earth turns once in a day as common experience tells you it does,I would suggest that if you became familiar with the AM/PM system which inserts an extra day and rotation to keep the number of rotations of the Earth fixed to the orbital points of equinox and solstice,you will be in a better position to judge why the Ra/Dec system cannot be used to express or explain daily and orbital dynamics.

You would literally have to ignore February 29th as both a 24 hour day and one rotation of the Earth (the Earth turns once a day) in order to retain 1465 rotations in 1461 days and I do not believe anyone is prepared to do that.

gkell3

Wh1stler wrote: »

Essentially, you are say that each day/night cycle requires the earth to rotate 361 degrees (or so); that the eath rotates 361 degrees between noon to the following noon?

There is no such thing as 361 degrees,an object can only turn 360 degrees,no more or no less.If you have a shred of common sense then listen to the genuine astronomers and clockmakers explain the outlines of the system which you and everyone else will use today ,tomorrow and as long as you live.

The one and only observation you need is that the total length of time from one noon to the next noon is never the same,it is not 24 hours and this has been known for as long as people came up with the idea that clocks can be used to tell the distance East or West on the planet -

"Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes, or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49 min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon, are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in Astronomy. Now between the longest and the shortest of those days, a day may be taken of such a length, as 365 such days, 5. hours &c. (the same numbers as before) make up, or are equall to that revolution: And this is call'd the Equal or Mean day, according to which the Watches are to be set; and therefore the Hour or Minute shew'd by the Watches, though they be perfectly Iust and equal, must needs differ almost continually from those that are shew'd by the Sun, or are reckon'd according to its Motion. But this Difference is regular, and is otherwise call'd the Aequation.." Christian Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

He is basically describing the Lat/Long system as it refers to planetary geography and the AM/PM system as it refers to the difference between natural noon and 24 hour noon.There is an issue with his format but essentially this is how one 24 hour day is anchored to the rotation of the Earth and how 1461 of these rotations are enclosed in 4 orbital circuits of te Earth.

Once you try to make sense of the Earth turning a nonsensical 361 degrees it is finished,this is what these guys do,they can manufacture impossible things to satisfy their conclusions.It is not entirely their fault but if a person can't explain why they experience all the effects of the rotation of the Earth,and you cant do it with a 1465/1461 imbalance,then why follow them in their reasoning.

Cú Giobach

gkell3 wrote: »

What do you wish to be called ,perhaps a 'big bangist' instead ?




Here we go again,you are holding two contradictory views simultaneously as Ra/Dec reasoning asserts 1465 rotations in 1461 days whereas the normal experience of a 24 hour day and its effects indicate 1461 rotations in 1461 days with February 29th as the 1461st day and rotation closing out 4 orbital circuits of the Earth,at least to the nearest rotation.

I am not trying to convince you that the Earth turns once in a day as common experience tells you it does,I would suggest that if you became familiar with the AM/PM system which inserts an extra day and rotation to keep the number of rotations of the Earth fixed to the orbital points of equinox and solstice,you will be in a better position to judge why the Ra/Dec system cannot be used to express or explain daily and orbital dynamics.

You would literally have to ignore February 29th as both a 24 hour day and one rotation of the Earth (the Earth turns once a day) in order to retain 1465 rotations in 1461 days and I do not believe anyone is prepared to do that.

How do you do it oriel36, you've been at this for years, getting banned from science sites all over the web, stopped from editing wiki entries and being laughed at all over cyberspace, yet you go on and on incessantly with your nonsense. The level of obsession and the working of a mind like yours is a bit unnerving, I'd say you must be quite "interesting" to talk to in the pub.

There is no such thing as 361 degrees,an object can only turn 360 degrees,no more or no less.

Through how many degrees does the Earth turn in 48 hours?

gkell3

Cú Giobach wrote: »

How do you do it oriel36, you've been at this for years, getting banned from science sites all over the web, stopped from editing wiki entries and being laughed at all over cyberspace, yet you go on and on incessantly with your nonsense. The level of obsession and the working of a mind like yours is a bit unnerving, I'd say you must be quite "interesting" to talk to in the pub.


Through how many degrees does the Earth turn in 48 hours?

It is not my response that you need to look at but whether the others can stick to the historical and technical details and whether they can eventually conclude that the Earth turns once a day and 1461 times in 1461 days.

I am counting on readers who are interested in the technical details themselves so if you are waiting for me to act as a lawyer in my own defense then forget it,I am sure there is a gossip forum somewhere here where you would be better suited.The old commie circular is hysterically funny if not completely wound up about how to defend a position and watching you act is not insulting but really quaint,something that is now a distant memory from the old days of the Usenet apart from a few hopeless cases -

"If he has not done his work well, hostile feeling groups may expose an individual psychopolitician. These may call into question the efficacy of psychiatric treatment such as shock, drugs, and brian surgery. Therefore, the psychopolitical operative must have to hand innumerable documents which assert enourmously encouraging figures on the subject of recovery by reason of shock, brain surgery, drugs and general treatment. Not one of these cases cited need be real, but they should be documented and printed in such a fashion as to form excellent court evidence.

When his allegiance is attacked, the psychopolitical operative should explain his connection with Vienna on the grounds that Vienna is the place of study for all important matters of the mind.

More importantly, he should rule into scorn, by reason of his authority, the sanity of the person attacking him..." and on and on it goes



http://www.whale.to/b/soviet.htm#CHAPTER_X__


Now I have nothing more to say on personal attacks and perhaps it is a lesson for me too in talking too much about the 'empirical cult' even if it does show some of the old commie traits in protecting its territory.


Ask any question you wish ,ultimately students have to listen to teachers explain why the Earth turns once in a day,why we have Feb29th,where the seasons come from,how Copernicus worked out the Earth moves between Mars and Venus and all the others things they are not taught.

AugustusMinimus

I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

gkell is either.

1. The most persistent troll I've ever seen.
2. A person with an IQ in the 60s.

Good night.

Wh1stler

gkell3 wrote: »

There is no such thing as 361 degrees,an object can only turn 360 degrees,no more or no less.If you have a shred of common sense then listen to the genuine astronomers and clockmakers explain the outlines of the system which you and everyone else will use today ,tomorrow and as long as you live.

That is reprehensible gkell; you would lead the innocents into the abyss.

If you were to provide maths grinds, would you deliberately cause your students to fail their exam?

You do yourself a dis-service but worse, you block the ears of orthodoxy to honest, considered and perhaps, on occasion, valid challenges.

I am still having difficulties with the implications of tidal locking and the moon but fear somewhat to persue them for fear of being tarred with the same brush that you seem to submit readily to.

It is a pity because as far as I am concerned, you have some valid points but these are eclipsed by your unwillingness to engage in discussion, choosing instead to evangelise.

Your understanding of the matters at hand cannot be tested and are therefore scientifically invalid; do you think that science should be based on faith?

The strange thing is, I think that there are those in the scientific community who promote a political agenda over the scientific one. The 'global-warming' debate exemplifies this perfectly; data that supports the government position is publicised and somehow validates 'carbon tax' and data that doesn't is suppressed but the 'suppressed' data does eventually emerge because science, for the true scientist, is the persuit of truth.

How can you have any credibility in such a debate if you can say that an object cannot turn through 361 degrees?

Like I said, it is a pity.

King Mob

gkell3 wrote: »

Ask any question you wish ,ultimately students have to listen to teachers explain why the Earth turns once in a day,why we have Feb29th,where the seasons come from,how Copernicus worked out the Earth moves between Mars and Venus and all the others things they are not taught.

Umm... I've been asking you several questions about your theories which you have been ignoring. Could you please either answer them, explain why your are not answering them or at the very least, do the honest thing and stop pretending that they were never asked.

But given your history here and in other forums, not going to hold my breath waiting for a response.

But if you really do care about anything resembling the truth, you should try to answer them, or maybe just ask yourself why you have to act like such a dishonest zealot.

Rubecula

gkell3 wrote: »

What do you wish to be called ,perhaps a 'big bangist' instead ?

I don't really care on the title, just want to know if you meant what I think you meant.

Here we go again,you are holding two contradictory views simultaneously as Ra/Dec reasoning asserts 1465 rotations in 1461 days whereas the normal experience of a 24 hour day and its effects indicate 1461 rotations in 1461 days with February 29th as the 1461st day and rotation closing out 4 orbital circuits of the Earth,at least to the nearest rotation.

I can not see where there are two contradictory views in what I said. As for Ra/Dec. What the hell does that mean? Are you referring to the Ancient Egyptian Sun God? If so what does the Dec mean? December? Besides we have explained in the simplest of terms that to turn from noon to noon (one day) it takes more than a full rotation. What part of this is too difficult to understand?

I am not trying to convince you that the Earth turns once in a day as common experience tells you it does,I would suggest that if you became familiar with the AM/PM system which inserts an extra day and rotation to keep the number of rotations of the Earth fixed to the orbital points of equinox and solstice,you will be in a better position to judge why the Ra/Dec system cannot be used to express or explain daily and orbital dynamics.

What are you on about here? It is rhetoric and dogma. And it makes no real sense.

You would literally have to ignore February 29th as both a 24 hour day and one rotation of the Earth (the Earth turns once a day) in order to retain 1465 rotations in 1461 days and I do not believe anyone is prepared to do that.

Do you actually read what you post? Why ignore Feb 29th? We have patiently and in the nicest way explained all this. But you are so entrenched in your own Dogma to not see any of this or the good attempts by these folks to enlighten you as to the FACTS of the matter. By all means keep to your beliefs, but when folks tell/show you that they are not interested in your words, why do you persist in reiterating the same rubbish. Honestly, you are or seem to be a very silly person indeed to keep on with this. I can not explain any more simply than you have been told already on how the Earth has to rotate through more than one full rotation for there to be a full day. Even my grandchildren can understand this when shown. So just what is it with you? Are you a religious zealot (although if you are I can't see what religion it may be) Are you being deliberately awkward, or are you genuinely in need of some sort of help?

Why not simply point out the bits you do not understand? Or are you indeed a Troll, here to deliberately upset folk?

Edit: I will answer a question if you really need help, but beyond that I am not interested in any more of this guff. I am finished with this thread.

shizz

Rubecula wrote: »

I can not see where there are two contradictory views in what I said. As for Ra/Dec. What the hell does that mean? Are you referring to the Ancient Egyptian Sun God? If so what does the Dec mean? December? Besides we have explained in the simplest of terms that to turn from noon to noon (one day) it takes more than a full rotation. What part of this is too difficult to understand?
What are you on about here? It is rhetoric and dogma. And it makes no real sense.

By Ra/Dec I believe he's referring to Right Ascension and Declination. I'm not sure what his gripe is with it though.

But then again, is anyone really sure what his arguments and views actually are?

Anonymo

shizz wrote: »

By Ra/Dec I believe he's referring to Right Ascension and Declination. I'm not sure what his gripe is with it though.

But then again, is anyone really sure what his arguments and views actually are?

Nope.
gkell is a guy with just enough education to misinform.

gkell3

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

gkell is either.

1. The most persistent troll I've ever seen.
2. A person with an IQ in the 60s.

Good night.

The reason you can say good night and good morning is because the Earth turns once in 24 hours and stays that way tomorrow and the day after and all 1461 times in 1461 days which correspond to 4 years/4 orbital circuits of the Earth.

That is what you judge yourselves by,something on par with a round Earth and that the fact that you assert 1465 rotations in 1461 days is not a pity,it is a genuine crisis for whatever fog of misunderstanding there is out there,the fact that you will all experience one rotation in step with one 24 hour day and still reject it is a tragedy for everyone.

gkell3

Anonymo wrote: »

Nope.
gkell is a guy with just enough education to misinform.

Every student on the planet in the 21st century has a right to learn that the Earth turns once in 24 hours and stays that way.Whatever mental fog clouds your judgement on this primary experience and on into every other terrestrial and astronomical fact,it is time for you to change.

" The man who is not able to develop and use his mind is bound to be the slave of the other man who uses his mind .."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFGgbT_VasI

Anonymo

gkell3 wrote: »

Every student on the planet in the 21st century has a right to learn that the Earth turns once in 24 hours and stays that way.Whatever mental fog clouds your judgement on this primary experience and on into every other terrestrial and astronomical fact,it is a crisis like no other.

Grand. I've lost all patience with you. You have no interest in engaging in a proper discussion. You believe that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Many of us here have entertained your nonsense for long enough. The only bonus was that we (i.e. not you) got to discuss interesting things for the benefit of others that may be reading the thread. Now that it has become clear to you that you're getting no traction with your earlier nonsense you're starting to go off on one about global warming.
Now I may be interested in discussing the merits or otherwise of these theories but only on grounds consistent with observations. You've no interest in that so I think it's pointless engaging in any more discussion with you.

gkell3

Anonymo wrote: »

.
Now I may be interesting in discussing the merits or otherwise of these theories but only on grounds consistent in observations. You've no interest in that so I think it's pointless engaging in any more discussion with you.

The central theme of this topic should astonish any reader,the fight to save the relationship between the 24 hour day and one rotation of the Earth day after day,nothing more complicated than that.

The people pushing 'big bang' and human control over global temperature exist in an empirical fog of pretense by asserting a 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance which defies common sense ,common experience and indicates a type of cult mentality that doesn't quit when faced with uncomplicated facts.It is this unreasonable behavior that is driving empiricism which people mistake for 'science' and especially in those areas of astronomy and evolutionary sciences where the topics involve large scale perceptions of time and space that are normally outside the interest of humanity as they go about their daily lives.This is where the modelers exploit the lack of familiarity people have with planetary dynamics including the most basic cause and effect of all - why the sun will rise this morning,set this evening and do it all over again tomorrow due to the rotation of the Earth.

These are the facts and the facts alone so whatever challenge anyone cares to put forward let them do it with technical and historical details and not puny personal attacks which don't work as arguments and never amount to anything other than gossip.I have made that clear before.

Zombrex

gkell3 wrote: »

I have made that clear before.

You refused to answer some basic questions and then closed your account, simply to open another account (which as far as I know is against the rules of Boards.ie btw) and continued on ignoring the questions as if they had been asked to a different user.

Your behaviour is very childish, though I suspect you don't care that much.

How about you try answering the questions already put to you?

Wh1stler

gkell3 wrote: »

The people pushing 'big bang' and human control over global temperature exist in an empirical fog of pretense by asserting a 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance which defies common sense ,common experience and indicates a type of cult mentality that doesn't quit when faced with uncomplicated facts.

I think that what is being said here is that assuming that the starting point is 'noon zero', the earth will experience 1461 noons in the time it takes for the earth to rotate 1465 times.

Or that the number of seconds in 1465 stellar days is roughly equal to the number of seconds in 1461 solar days.

How does this not make sense?

Wh1stler

Wh1stler wrote: »

I think that what is being said here is that assuming that the starting point is 'noon zero', the earth will experience 1461 noons in the time it takes for the earth to rotate 1465 times.

Or that the number of seconds in 1465 stellar days is roughly equal to the number of seconds in 1461 solar days.

How does this not make sense?

It does of course make sense but I see an issue that relates to tidal locking. And the moon.

If earth became tidally locked to the sun, then over a four-year period, that would give rise to the following:

Number of solar days = zero,
Number of stellar days = four.

Imagine that the orbital distance of the earth is represented by a large cog and that the earth's rotational distance is a smaller cog that meshes easily with the large one. And further imagine that the rate at which the cogs turn represent orbital and rotational velocity respectively.

In the event of tidal locking, the small cog does not turn with respect to the large cog; it is as if they wer 'superglued' together.

How can it be said that a 'superglued cog rotates independantly about its own axis'?

Cú Giobach

Wh1stler wrote: »

Imagine that the orbital distance of the earth is represented by a large cog and that the earth's rotational distance is a smaller cog that meshes easily with the large one. And further imagine that the rate at which the cogs turn represent orbital and rotational velocity respectively.

In the event of tidal locking, the small cog does not turn with respect to the large cog; it is as if they wer 'superglued' together.

How can it be said that a 'superglued cog rotates independantly about its own axis'?

The Earth and the Sun are not connected or "meshed" together like two cogs, there is no friction in space and they are independent bodies. The Earth is spinning at 366.25 revs per year and if the Sun disappeared it would continue to spin at this rate, it doesn't magically loose one rotation just because it is circling around another object.

If you started a satellite spinning at a set rate and then put it into orbit around something without changing the rpm, do you think it somehow looses one rotation just because it is now circling around something?

Get rid of the image of gravity as "a string" holding two things together, instead think of an independently spinning body frictionlessly moving around a "dent" in space caused by a bigger (heavier) object.

Tidal locking is not two things "glued" together by gravity, it is when a bodies rotation has been slowed till it rotates only once per orbit.
As has been explained this is because at one rotation per orbit no more tides are raised, consequently the slowing stops when this rate is reached.

gkell3

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The Earth The Earth and the Sun are not connected or "meshed" together like two cogsis spinning at 366.25 revs per year and if the Sun disappeared it would continue to spin at this rate, it doesn't magically loose one rotation just because it is circling around another object.

When you pick up the newspaper this morning you will read about events that took place yesterday or the day before that,you may read about events that will take place tomorrow or during the coming week and each and every one of those 24 hour days represents one rotation of the Earth and there is no time that they move out of step.

Readers are just unfamiliar with the details where the 6 hours or 1/4 rotation goes each non leap year where it is picked up by the extra day,rotation and 24 hours of Feb 29th as the 1461st day/rotation of the Earth.

This conversation shouldn't be happening,there should be some movement to work through the details of the Lat/Long system which keeps 24 hour days and rotations working in tandem.

Zubeneschamali

gkell3 wrote: »

there should be some movement to work through the details

Anytime you want to work through some details, feel free to start.

How long does it take Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle? What causes Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle?

What is the speed of light in a vacuum?

gkell3

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Anytime you want to work through some details, feel free to start.

The point of departure is a heartbreaking one - a 24 hour day and one rotation keep in step day after day after day and never fall out of step so that when the Earth completes four circuits of the Sun,it will also have completed 1461 rotations in those 1461 days.The Gregorian calendar correction is based on the observation that there is an 11 minute discrepancy in each orbital circuit and 10 days and rotations were omitted to bring the rotations back to their orbital points due to the over-compensation which ran on for well over a thousand years without correction.

In detail,the Earth's is divided into 24 equal lines stretching from North to South poles and at the equator the distance between those lines is 1037.5 miles,it also represents 1 hour time difference.The 24 hour AM/PM cycle is built on rotation to natural noon so each clock at the equator spread 15 degrees apart will register 1 hour time difference.Under normal circumstances the string of facts is that the equatorial Earth turns at 1037.5 miles per hour and a full 24901 circumference in 24 hours.

Daily and orbital motions are separate,this allows humans to omit the 6 hours and 1/4 rotation each non leap year and pick it up as the extra rotation on Feb 29th.The original system was based on the annual return of Sirius from behind the glare of the Sun,the Egyptians could see that after every 365 days,Sirius would appear before the Sun yet on the 4th year of 365 days it did not appear yet the flooding of the Nile always happened still happened after Sirius appeared.For contemporary readers it means that with or without clocks,the Earth turns 1461 times in proportion to 4 orbital circuits or 365 1/4 rotations to one orbital circuit,it is not a calendar thing but a fundamental proportion between the major daily and orbital motions of the Earth.

King Mob

gkell3 wrote: »

the Earth turns 1461 times in proportion to 4 orbital circuits or 365 1/4 rotations to one orbital circuit,it is not a calendar thing but a fundamental proportion between the major daily and orbital motions of the Earth.

Except it doesn't.

The Earth does not spin exactly in time with it's orbit around the sun.
This has been explained to you probably hundreds of times, but you are refusing to listen.

You then built your nonsensical rambling around the fact that you ignore this reality.
Basically you are exactly guilty of everything you are accusing real astronomers and scientists of doing.

And what's funnier is you realise this, hence why you know you have to ignore questions you can't honestly answer without exposing how ignorant and illeducated you are, like for instance that last questions you dodged:

How long does it take Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle? What causes Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle?

What is the speed of light in a vacuum?

So why, gkell, should anyone take you in any way seriously when you are acting like you are completely deluded or like a troll?

gkell3

King Mob wrote: »

Except it doesn't.

The Earth does not spin exactly in time with it's orbit around the sun.
This has been explained to you probably hundreds of times, but you are refusing to listen.

You then built your nonsensical rambling around the fact that you ignore this reality.
Basically you are exactly guilty of everything you are accusing real astronomers and scientists of doing.

And what's funnier is you realise this, hence why you know you have to ignore questions you can't honestly answer without exposing how ignorant and illeducated you are, like for instance that last questions you dodged:


So why, gkell, should anyone take you in any way seriously when you are acting like you are completely deluded or like a troll?

There are not ramblings,it is a fact that may allow you to emerge from that empirical fog you are in and take notice of your surroundings for the first time.

Today you will have noticed that the Sun came up and will go down this evening within a 24 hour day,it will do so tomorrow and continue to do so without fail.As long as you do not allow the 24 hour day and one rotation to fall out of step by keeping an eye on terrestrial effects,you simply cannot go wrong and gain a footing on the next step which is 1461 rotations in 1461 days.

Don't look at me,think of your surroundings and nothing else.

King Mob

gkell3 wrote: »

There are not ramblings,it is a fact that may allow you to emerge from that empirical fog you are in and take notice of your surroundings for the first time.

Today you will have noticed that the Sun came up and will go down this evening within a 24 hour day,it will do so tomorrow and continue to do so without fail.As long as you do not allow the 24 hour day and one rotation to fall out of step by keeping an eye on terrestrial effects,you simply cannot go wrong and gain a footing on the next step which is 1461 rotations in 1461 days.

Don't look at me,think of your surroundings and nothing else.

And I do look at my surroundings. There's a difference between the length of time it takes for the sun to reach the same point in the sky (or noon) as it did yesterday and the length of time it takes a star to reach the same point it did last night.
We are moving relative to the sun, but we are not moving relative (more or less) to the stars.
Which of these facts are false?

So again you read the questions I asked, yet you refused to even acknowledge them. Why?

How long does it take Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle? What causes Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle?

What is the speed of light in a vacuum?

gkell3

King Mob wrote: »

And I do look at my surroundings.

Take notice of what your body does in 24 hours as it wakes and sleeps within a 24 hour period,day after day .Look at everything that happens in a 24 hour period as the Earth turns once in a day,all the news and sport,how the temperature rises and falls or how dawn brings on a new day and twilight brings rest.This is your point of departure where one 24 hour day and one rotation always keep in step with each progression of days and each rotation of the Earth.

Don't try to imagine a 24 hour day out of step with one rotation as you will lose that footing where 1461 rotations in 1461 days includes the extra 24 hours ,one day and one rotation of Feb 29th.It is a process of waking up and breathing the air of astronomy for the first time.

Don't worry about circumpolar motion and a rotating celestial sphere,that will become apparent in time as a convenience.

King Mob

gkell3 wrote: »

Take notice of what your body does in 24 hours as it wakes and sleeps within a 24 hour period,day after day .Look at everything that happens in a 24 hour period as the Earth turns once in a day,all the news and sport,how the temperature rises and falls or how dawn in the morning holds the promise of a new day and twilight brings rest.This is your point of departure where one 24 hour day and one rotation always keep in step with each progression of days and each rotation of the Earth.

Don't try to imagine a 24 hour day out of step with one rotation as you will lose that footing where 1461 rotations in 1461 days includes the extra 24 hours ,one day and one rotation of Feb 29th.It is a process of waking up and breathing the air of astronomy for the first time.

Don't worry about circumpolar motion and a rotating celestial sphere,that will become apparent in time as a convenience.

You see, instead of answering questions I honestly and directly asked you, you return to rattling off your nonsense like it is gospel.
Almost exactly like the empiricist cult that lives in your imagination...

Don't try to imagine a 24 hour day out of step with one rotation as you will lose that footing where 1461 rotations in 1461 days includes the extra 24 hours ,one day and one rotation of Feb 29th.It is a process of waking up and breathing the air of astronomy for the first time.

So basically your saying that if I try to imagine it based on what actually happens in real life, then I will see that your are totally wrong?

The reason I'm imagining a 24 hour day out of step with one rotation is because that's what actually happens.
Sunrises and sunsets do not happen exactly 24 hours after the last one. The time between them changes as the Earth goes around the sun. However the time it takes the stars to raise and fall remains relativly constant, making them the better indicator of how the earth rotates.
And unfortunatly it does not match up with a solar day, or a solar year perfectly.

And again, because you are still being dishonest and avoiding them:

How long does it take Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle? What causes Dubhe to complete one circumpolar circle?

What is the speed of light in a vacuum?

gkell3

King Mob wrote: »

The reason I'm imagining a 24 hour day out of step with one rotation is because that's what actually happens.

Now there will be a time when ex-empiricists will clean up their own side of things and they will do so because they will come to their senses.

This is because of the fact that a 24 hour day and one rotation produces all the effects you will experience today,it will do so tomorrow,the day after that and there is no day they will fall out of step so that the 24 hours of May 10th 2012 as one rotation will turn into the next 24 hours and one rotation of May 11th 2012 and all the other days and rotations to follow.

You must fight your way out of that fog which is creating an imbalance between days and rotations by interpreting what your own body is doing in experiencing the effects of rotation.However hard it may be initially,the struggle to take notice of your surroundings will eventually catch up with you and you will see things in a new way,that much I can promise you.