Property Database

highgiant1985

I just read the below on breaking news and thought it was interesting. I hadn't realized the plan was to get this online for this summer. They've been talking about it for long enough anyway!

I'm currently planning on buying this summer so I personally would find it very interesting to see real selling prices for the last 2 years*. (*If they ever get it online). At the moment its very difficult to know what is a realistic price for some property's and this should hopefully provide clarity on that. The last line is a bit of a worry though "It is part of the Government's plans to stimulate the property market." As a potential first time buyer I like my prices nice and low .

It will be interesting to see how this information will be made available as well. How detailed will the information be. Will it have any impact on asking prices!

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http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/govt-preparing-database-of-house-prices-540444.html

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The Government is said to be preparing a database of how much was paid for every house sold over the past two years.

The list is due to go online by the end of June.

According to the Irish Independent, it will contain the price of the property, the address and the date of sale.

It is part of the Government's plans to stimulate the property market.

godtabh

Why is this a good thing? Also what if some one wants to keep how much they have sold/bough a house for private?

spockety

godtabh wrote: »

Why is this a good thing? Also what if some one wants to keep how much they have sold/bough a house for private?

It's a good thing because it provides for a completely transparent market. It prevents manipulation which is detrimental to market buyers, and is one tool in an array which could help prevent another catastrophic property bubble.

There is no privacy, it is the law that all transaction prices are made public. If you don't like it, then don't buy/sell, or move to another country.

This is not unique to Ireland, there is a property price register already in the UK and other countries.

seamus

I think one comment on the link above sums up my position on it:

Shouldn't be too difficult. I think there was one sold last August.

It's a good long-term step, but if they're limiting themselves to data since 2010, the database is going to be woefully small and most areas will have huge dark patches with little or no price information. There are estimates that around 5,000 properties sold in 2010, and probably the same in 2011.

If they went back 6 or 10 years, they could compile a much more comprehensive database, and then it's only a simple matter of plugging in inflation/deflation rates to derive a reasonably accurate estimate of the current sale price.

godtabh

Its not the law yet!

Surely privacy hast to be an issue?

GetWithIt

godtabh wrote: »

Surely privacy hast to be an issue?

Why? What has privacy to do with a financial transaction?

I drove by a petrol station this morning. I saw someone leave before me. The price per litre was displayed prominently. I could therefore conclude that that was the price in litres that that individual paid. I don't see any privacy issue there.

What issue do you see?

godtabh

Some people (who have nothing to hide but like their privacy) will not want other people knowing how much they paid/sold a house for.

A house is only worth how much some one is willing to buy it for.

spockety

godtabh wrote: »

Its not the law yet!

It is the law.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0040/sec0086.html#sec86

TheLaw wrote:

PART 12

Residential Property Sales Prices and Commercial Leases Database


Residential property sales prices.


86.— (1) The Authority shall, as soon as is practicable after the commencement of this section, maintain and publish particulars of residential property sales prices in the State, including—


(a) the address of the property,


(b) the price at which the property was sold, and


(c) the date of the sale of the property.


(2) The particulars referred to in subsection (1) may, at the Authority’s discretion, relate, whether in respect of all residential properties in the State or a class of such properties, to sales of properties over a period of time, including a period of time which has elapsed before the commencement of this section.


(3) The Authority shall make the particulars referred to in subsection (1) available for inspection free of charge by any person on its Internet website in such a manner that the section of the website which contains the particulars is readily accessible by members of the public.

Surely privacy hast to be an issue?

The societal benefits of the database/law outweigh the privacy concerns of the individual.

It works in other countries, and it will work here.

monkeypants

How much personal information has to be stored in order to maintain this register? Could the register not just contain the street address, but not the house number, or an average price for said street based on sale in X year.

spockety

monkeypants wrote: »

How much personal information has to be stored in order to maintain this register? Could the register not just contain the street address, but not the house number, or an average price for said street based on sale in X year.

It would be useless in that case.

People who have a problem with this are going to have to get over it.

It's going to contain the exact street address, the exact amount a property was sold for, and the exact date it was sold.

It will not contain the vendor's name, blood type, marital status, or favourite sexual position.

oflahero

Estate agents, auctioneers and now NAMA officials have long enjoyed the benefits of a non-transparent market. This shambles of a property crash here in Ireland has been crying out for some hard data, if only to curb the endless speculation and bottom-picking plaguing every article written about the 'state of the market'. If you don't recognise that this is one of the better economic and political developments of 2012, then it can only be speculated on what your motives are.

trellheim

No. This is in line with most countries; you can see date,address and price of sale.

This is nothing new and has been promised for at least 5 years now, the consultation period and Data Protection discussions have been so protracted we nearly lost faith in it ever coming along.

We reckon they're going back to the start of the e-stamping project, so 2-3 years sale data, maybe.

quozl

seamus wrote: »

It's a good long-term step, but if they're limiting themselves to data since 2010, the database is going to be woefully small and most areas will have huge dark patches with little or no price information.

Good thing that they aren't limiting themselves to data since 2010 so.

They plan to launch with data since 2010 and starting adding older data after launch.

Snakeblood

quozl wrote: »

Good thing that they aren't limiting themselves to data since 2010 so.

They plan to launch with data since 2010 and starting adding older data after launch.

Is there a link to that? That's great news.

quozl

It's in the article being discussed - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/selling-price-of-all-houses-will-be-revealed-3024591.html

The PRSA's aim is to publish details of house price sales prior to January 2010 in the future -- but this will take longer because some of the stamp duty information hastily processed during the property boom did not contain accurate addresses.

It's not the first time I've seen them say this either but I'm too lazy to hunt for older links

Milk & Honey

The older data is not going to be of much relevance. Different market sectors and property types have fallen in value at different rates, so knowing a sale price in 2006 is of no use in trying to estimate the current ballpark. Estimating current value is all about looking at 3 or 4 recent comparators. I think prices after a certain time should be removed. Agents will be trying to put a spin on out of date prices as a marketing tool.

zom

It can makes serious looses to people trying to sell property. Wonder if all scheme will finish in the court.

oflahero

zom wrote: »

It can makes serious looses to people trying to sell property.

Yes, the unwinding of the largest credit bubble in history will clearly be nothing compared to the unveiling of a public hous price register.

But it certainly is true, public access to price information will most definitely have a detrimental effect on the ability of estate agents and auctioneers to distort the actual state of the market. Your point being...?

markpb

monkeypants wrote: »

How much personal information has to be stored in order to maintain this register? Could the register not just contain the street address, but not the house number, or an average price for said street based on sale in X year.

For particularly long roads, the road name alone is useless. Take the Swords road for example: it runs from Drumcondra through Whitehall, Beaumont, Santry and out to the airport. The prices along that corridor can/do vary wildly so not knowing the house number makes is useless.

zom

oflahero wrote: »

Your point being...?

Estate agents and auctioneers are not the only people seling properties in Ireland.

oflahero

zom wrote: »

Estate agents and auctioneers are not the only people seling properties in Ireland.

So you think that retaining the possibility for some sly vendor to use his wiles to sell his gaff for a few grand more than similar houses would fetch on the same street is worth more than the wider benefit to society of a transparent market?

L1011

zom wrote: »

Estate agents and auctioneers are not the only people seling properties in Ireland.

And again, your point is?

This is something virtually every other country has.

daithi09

Well ok. it kind of makes sense, for first time buyers only. which is fair enough. but it's going to hinder anyone buying a second hand property to do up. I'm not talking about people doing up houses(developers) trying to make a killing. For example. We just bought a house in December, has not being done up since the seventies, mostly cosmetic but a fair bit of insulating/ re-plastering/ re-wiring, floors, doors, kitchen, bathroom etc. etc. so we put around 30k in for everything. but when it comes to selling when we need a bigger house the price online won't reflect the true value of the house, and potential buyers would be inclined not to pay more than the listed price online.
In our case its not that bad but there are people who pretty much build from ruin at costs of over 100,000.
There are going to be a lot of old buildings and doer-uppers going completely derelict in the not so distant future, and alot of people that will be falling deeper and deeper into negative equity.
Rant over. sorry.

spockety

daithi09 wrote: »

Well ok. it kind of makes sense, for first time buyers only. which is fair enough. but it's going to hinder anyone buying a second hand property to do up. I'm not talking about people doing up houses(developers) trying to make a killing. For example. We just bought a house in December, has not being done up since the seventies, mostly cosmetic but a fair bit of insulating/ re-plastering/ re-wiring, floors, doors, kitchen, bathroom etc. etc. so we put around 30k in for everything. but when it comes to selling when we need a bigger house the price online won't reflect the true value of the house, and potential buyers would be inclined not to pay more than the listed price online.
In our case its not that bad but there are people who pretty much build from ruin at costs of over 100,000.
There are going to be a lot of old buildings and doer-uppers going completely derelict in the not so distant future, and alot of people that will be falling deeper and deeper into negative equity.
Rant over. sorry.

The market will pay what the market will pay.

If the market will only pay what you originally paid for it, despite putting over 30K worth of upgrades/repairs in, then that is what the market will pay.

If someone looks at it and believes it to be worth whatever you paid + 30K, or more, then that is what they will pay.

This is what transparency brings.

Hallelujah.

Ritchi

If the database shows that a house down the road went for X amount, and it's not as nice as your house, you will then mostly likely get X+Y, if there's sufficient demand.

chrisp2281

I have literally just gone sale agreed on a house. Once everything was finalised i'd be happy to tell people where I bought and how much i've paid. I would have liked that information myself

Duckjob

Hopefully this will help shatter the delusion still apparent in many sellers, when buyers come waving the sale prices of recently sold properties in the area in their faces. This can only be a good thing.