Nightclub marketing gone too far?

TheZohanS

ScumLord wrote: »

Oh, I get it. Men wear suits and women are sluts. Well you learn something new everyday, I hope they're teaching this in school.

Well that's kinda sexist now isn't it...women can wear suits and men can be sluts...

Doc Ruby

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Chicks with Daddy Issues

Hmm?

I don't see why sluts get such a bad rep anyway, people are allowed to have sex with whoever they want in this century, as long as they use condoms or whatever. Let them run down the street naked if they want, and it will not offend me. Why are people afraid of the human body.

I don't think a lot of people have really thought this through fully - plenty of men hold a "slut" in disdain because she what, enjoys sex? Some women don't like them because it cheapens the value of the goods on offer - really love, have you no better way to make yourself useful to society than offering your organs. Its about time we shook off the last of the religious puritanism in this country.

Sex is good and fun, so go have sex everyone.

veloc123

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Imagine if places had to advertise honestly?

I reckon "Sexually Insecure and Chicks with Daddy Issues" would pack out the club.

That's Glenn Quagmire's theory about propostioning a woman...

kryogen

Iago wrote: »

Appealing to the right demographic obviously

1:10 in

"What's your best chat up line?"

"We just act like sluts and hope for the best"

The presenter Aoife, lovely girl. Definitely not a slut

kryogen

smash wrote: »

Has anyone actually ever been to alchemy?

Yeah and tbh its a ****hole

smash

kryogen wrote: »

Yeah and tbh its a ****hole

Hmmmmm

Logical Fallacy

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Hmm?

I don't see why sluts get such a bad rep anyway, people are allowed to have sex with whoever they want in this century, as long as they use condoms or whatever. Let them run down the street naked if they want, and it will not offend me. Why are people afraid of the human body.

I don't think a lot of people have really thought this through fully - plenty of men hold a "slut" in disdain because she what, enjoys sex? Some women don't like them because it cheapens the value of the goods on offer - really love, have you no better way to make yourself useful to society than offering your organs. Its about time we shook off the last of the religious puritanism in this country.

Sex is good and fun, so go have sex everyone.

I love sluts and will fight for their right to **** me, but as someone with both an emotional and financial interest in the club scene in Ireland I am allowed to despair about the state of it.

Interesting that you are focusing solely on my throwaway comment about girls, when i also insulted the blokes in the equation though...****ing feminist!

xzanti

smash wrote: »

Hmmmmm

Downlinz

Advertising is advertising. Don't like what you see? Then don't avail of their product or service.

Am tired of people who seem to believe theres such a thing as "taking it too far" and expecting it to be censored or removed just because its not tasteful to them.

UsernameInUse

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

My daughters are a bit off club going age, but if advertising like this is what's to come for them, then we're packing up and moving to Lambay Island.

Welcome to 2012.

Social conservatism - never cared for it. I think we should all streak in the street. (very srs)

P.S - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that advertising. If there is something off about it, it's because she's wearing too much clothes.

ibarelycare

I'm not offended by the so-called "sexism" of these ads. I just think Alchemy are going for the laziest, most shocking type of advertising they can and they've been doing this for a while. This advertising, combined with the screenshot from their FB page where someone complained about the image, and they basically told her to GTFO, combined with the broadsheet.ie article that someone posted earlier, makes me hope I never have to set foot in that place in my life. But they are aiming towards a different demographic to me, so it doesn't really matter to them.

ScumLord

TheZohan wrote: »

Well that's kinda sexist now isn't it...women can wear suits and men can be sluts...

Now I'm just confused? What if the sluts come dressed in suits?

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Have to say I and I think most guys also, going by online forums at the time at least, were wholly against the banning of the Hunky Dory adverts in response to complaints from the NWCI and other feminist groups.

To me, those ads were pretty harmless and were very much done tongue in cheek but should women, of any standing, have an issue with the current Alchemy marketing campaign, I think I would support them, as I feel it is a step too far.

My daughters are a bit off club going age, but if advertising like this is what's to come for them, then we're packing up and moving to Lambay Island.

As long as there are idiotic women to look at this poster, there will be idiotic women willing to attend. Leave them to their own idiotic devices. If I don't have to listen to them squealing like piglets on fire as they get distracted by shiny disco balls and men's bulging wallets, I am happy.....

hondasam

Good advertising is what it is, gets people talking. All publicity is good publicity.

smash

hondasam wrote: »

Good advertising is what it is, gets people talking. All publicity is good publicity.

Unless you're Gary Glitter

44leto

Its a funny world
School girls are dressing like sluts and sluts are dressing like school girls.

TheZohanS

ScumLord wrote: »

Now I'm just confused? What if the sluts come dressed in suits?

Sometimes they do...

St.Spodo

There is a big controversy surrounding Alchemy for running an ad portraying a woman with her knickers down and the slogan ''if you're not up for it, don't cum''. This ad, unlike the one in the OP, I'd argue, is not only sexist but dangerous. It is very possible for nightclubs to take things too far. Certain ones do so on a regular basis and it needs regulation.

subway

St.Spodo wrote: »

There is a big controversy surrounding Alchemy for running an ad portraying a woman with her knickers down and the slogan ''if you're not up for it, don't cum''. This ad, unlike the one in the OP, I'd argue, is not only sexist but dangerous. It is very possible for nightclubs to take things too far. Certain ones do so on a regular basis and it needs regulation.

The one that's in this thread twice? What's dangerous about it?

smash

St.Spodo wrote: »

There is a big controversy surrounding Alchemy for running an ad portraying a woman with her knickers down and the slogan ''if you're not up for it, don't cum''. This ad, unlike the one in the OP, I'd argue, is not only sexist but dangerous. It is very possible for nightclubs to take things too far. Certain ones do so on a regular basis and it needs regulation.

How is it sexist? Please explain, I'm dying to hear.

St.Spodo

subway wrote: »

The one that's in this thread twice? What's dangerous about it?

Haven't read the thread to be honest with you. I think it's dangerous as it implicitly suggests that if a girl goes to this event, she is 'up for it'' and responsible for any unwanted sexual attention/assault she suffers. It essentially feeds in to the line of thinking that blames the victim of sexual assault for their conduct.

subway

I think that's a load of ****e, tbh.
Anything to back that assertion up?

desertcircus

smash wrote: »

St.Spodo wrote: »

There is a big controversy surrounding Alchemy for running an ad portraying a woman with her knickers down and the slogan ''if you're not up for it, don't cum''. This ad, unlike the one in the OP, I'd argue, is not only sexist but dangerous. It is very possible for nightclubs to take things too far. Certain ones do so on a regular basis and it needs regulation.

How is it sexist? Please explain, I'm dying to hear.

I'll paraphrase: If you get sexually assaulted in our nightclub, it's your own fault - you knew what the place is like.

Or, the message to men: All the women in the nightclub are in the mood, so feel free to grope away.

smash

St.Spodo wrote: »

Haven't read the thread to be honest with you. I think it's dangerous as it implicitly suggests that if a girl goes to this event, she is 'up for it'' and responsible for any unwanted sexual attention/assault she suffers. It essentially feeds in to the line of thinking that blames the victim of sexual assault for their conduct.

No. It's just a tongue in cheek ad that says "if you're not up for it, don't cum". Not "Don't come to the event unless you want to fúck".

St.Spodo

subway wrote: »

I think that's a load of ****e, tbh.
Anything to back that assertion up?

''If you're not up for it, don't cum''.

What if you go and you're not up for it?

subway

desertcircus wrote: »

I'll paraphrase: If you get sexually assaulted in our nightclub, it's your own fault - you knew what the place is like.

Or, the message to men: All the women in the nightclub are in the mood, so feel free to grope away.

You honestly believe that???

smash

desertcircus wrote: »

I'll paraphrase: If you get sexually assaulted in our nightclub, it's your own fault - you knew what the place is like.

Not true.

desertcircus wrote: »

Or, the message to men: All the women in the nightclub are in the mood, so feel free to grope away.

It's more sexist for you to assume that men don't have the intelligence level to realise that it's just an advertisement.

St.Spodo wrote: »

''If you're not up for it, don't cum''.

What if you go and you're not up for it?

Then you wont go looking to cum will you...

desertcircus

smash wrote: »

desertcircus wrote: »

I'll paraphrase: If you get sexually assaulted in our nightclub, it's your own fault - you knew what the place is like.

Not true.

desertcircus wrote: »

Or, the message to men: All the women in the nightclub are in the mood, so feel free to grope away.

It's more sexist for you to assume that men don't have the intelligence level to realise that it's just an advertisement.

This is just depressing. It's genuinely embarrassing that other members of my gender will loudly declare that there's nothing wrong with sounding like a rapist and then accuse people of sexism for the crime of daring to point out how horrible it is.

leggo

Simple formula to ****e like this, from someone working in the industry:

• Clubs thought they had it made during the boom.
• Incompetent managers packed their mates in as staff/management. What, you thought only FF had cronies? They thought it was fantastic that they got to work in a job where they did sweet FA and essentially got paid to drink pints and count money. These are the types of **** you hated during the boom who used to brag about their new cars and villas in the sun.
• Recession hit.
• Clubs panicked and slashed prices on booze.
• That didn't work for long because everyone had the same idea at the same time.
• Incompetent management realised they had been coasting for years and knew nothing more about marketing than what they'd seen on TV shows/movies with characters who work in marketing, i.e. 'sex sells' and so on.
• In the meantime, people who had been hit by recession decided to 're-invent' themselves as marketing geniuses with ideas like this and vague business names like 'Sloshed' or 'Panther Marketing'. I've seen one or two decent party promotions companies out there, most are just people committing welfare fraud though trying to milk clubs for a few bob with their mates til they get back up on their feet/emigrate to Oz. These are actually the people I'd least blame for all of this: if clubs are dumb enough to pay these people to do their jobs for them, then why shouldn't they take advantage?
• Desperate ads like this came out en masse. Still no vision beyond the misguided notions that 'sex sells' and 'all publicity is good publicity'.
• What's going to happen is that THAT will fall flat, because these type of venues have a massive disconnection from what their punters actually want and no cop on how to turn it around with smart business sense.
• People jump from the sinking ships before they're pushed, pat themselves on the back and blame running a business into the ground as a 'sign of the times'
• Lather, rinse, repeat until enough venues go out of business that the market stabilises.

In the meantime, there's no vision, no genuine option for the consumer, and very few people actually trying to think of solutions the problem, just cover their arses for long enough and hope that the country gets back on the ground or enough people develop booze problems in the interim.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give to you: the Irish nightclub industry. An absolute farce.

St.Spodo

smash wrote: »

Then you wont go looking to cum will you...

Nope, you won't, but if you tell people everyone is there to ''cum'', it excuses unwanted sexual attention.

subway

desertcircus wrote: »

This is just depressing. It's genuinely embarrassing that other members of my gender will loudly declare that there's nothing wrong with sounding like a rapist and then accuse people of sexism for the crime of daring to point out how horrible it is.

The only one who thinks this is a free ticket to a rape party is you

smash

desertcircus wrote: »

This is just depressing. It's genuinely embarrassing that other members of my gender will loudly declare that there's nothing wrong with sounding like a rapist and then accuse people of sexism for the crime of daring to point out how horrible it is.

What's depressing is that everything in our society is dissected and branded as something wrong even when it's just innocent fun. It's a tongue in cheek campaign designed to be talked about. And it's working. :rolleyes:

hondasam

desertcircus wrote: »

This is just depressing. It's genuinely embarrassing that other members of my gender will loudly declare that there's nothing wrong with sounding like a rapist and then accuse people of sexism for the crime of daring to point out how horrible it is.

The more you talk about it the more you are promoting the club, it's exactly what they want.
It's advertising at it's best or some will think at it's worst, either way it sells.

Potatoeman

ibarelycare wrote: »

I'm not offended by the so-called "sexism" of these ads. I just think Alchemy are going for the laziest, most shocking type of advertising they can and they've been doing this for a while. This advertising, combined with the screenshot from their FB page where someone complained about the image, and they basically told her to GTFO, combined with the broadsheet.ie article that someone posted earlier, makes me hope I never have to set foot in that place in my life. But they are aiming towards a different demographic to me, so it doesn't really matter to them.

Yeah but anyone that would complain would not go to this club so why would they care? People complain about everything. :rolleyes:

desertcircus

smash wrote: »

What's depressing is that everything in our society is dissected and branded as something wrong even when it's just innocent fun.

If a woman is raped tonight by a man she meets at Alchemy and the case gets as far as court, the first point in the defence's case is going to be that flyer. Almost every defence barrister in the country, faced with a case like that, will point out the flyer and argue that their client was honestly under the impression that any woman at the club was "up for it". And there's a decent chance it'll work as a defence.

I'm really sick of this attitude. If you want to have a straightforward disagreement and argue that you think it's more important to push the boundaries of free speech than to avoid causing offence and upset, then fair enough. I'll debate that with you. But to act as though it's weird and wrong to think that it goes too far is deliberately obtuse and unpleasant. There is something fundamentally broken with a person's sense of empathy if they can't understand that some people might justifiably feel offended or upset by a slogan that trades on the same basis as the idea that a woman in a short skirt is asking for it. Is it really so hard to understand that the phrase "if you're not up for it, don't come" might be horribly upsetting to people who've been violated in an appallingly personal way, or people who've seen their attackers walk free after successfully arguing that it was understandable to assume they were consenting based on their choice of clothes or where they were? Is that leap of the imagination really so hard to make?

I don't think Alchemy is some horrific den of sexual violence, but I think their campaign is casually offensive and demeaning to victims of sexual assault. There's a tendency among a certain subgroup of men to treat any criticism of something like this as being humourless feminists refusing to have a laugh with them. If your idea of funny is blithely ignoring the potential of your words to cause needless upset among victims of sexual assault, and then reacting to anyone who points out that potential by accusing them of trying to close down free speech, I'm not laughing along with you.

Buceph

I think it's a completely irresponsible ad. It's going to attract complete morons to the club, and they're going to get off with other morons, and they're going to have moron babies and we're going to be surrounded by morons.

smash

If someone goes to Alchemy tonight and gets raped then it's nobody's fault but the rapist, it's not the fault of a flyer, or what anyone was wearing. It's purely down to the mind of a sick fúck. End of story.

And while a flyer like this might be a trigger for an assault victim, you can not walk on egg shells around everyone. And this was posted on FB, I'm sure if that kind of thing offended you then you wouldn't be checking out their fb page because they're always posting this kind of crap.

yawha

smash wrote: »

If someone goes to Alchemy tonight and gets raped then it's nobody's fault but the rapist, it's not the fault of a flyer, or what anyone was wearing. It's purely down to the mind of a sick fúck. End of story.

And while a flyer like this might be a trigger for an assault victim, you can not walk on egg shells around everyone. And this was posted on FB, I'm sure if that kind of thing offended you then you wouldn't be checking out their fb page because they're always posting this kind of crap.

You don't think there's any implications whatsoever in terms of the message sent to young people and attitudes towards sexual assault etc. ?

One employee of Alchemy came out on facebook and was a flat out victim blaming cunt.

http://www.universitytimes.ie/?p=8518

smash

yawha wrote: »

You don't think there's any implications whatsoever in terms of the message sent to young people and attitudes towards sexual assault etc. ?

These young people are adults in the eyes of the the law, and believe me they know about the implications of sexual assault. Do you not remember the 15yr old who claimed rape on junior cert last year? She knew damn well what she was doing. The people going to Alchemy know too. They're not all going expecting every woman there to be an easy lay.

desertcircus

smash wrote: »

If someone goes to Alchemy tonight and gets raped then it's nobody's fault but the rapist, it's not the fault of a flyer, or what anyone was wearing. It's purely down to the mind of a sick fúck. End of story.

And if their lawyer manages to secure an acquittal based on the argument that the flyer created a perception in the rapist's mind that any woman in Alchemy on a Monday would be up for it?

Not to mention the fact that this does not occur in a vacuum. Perceptions regarding the boundaries of acceptable conduct are shaped by what a person sees and hears around them. That's why shaming drunk drivers worked so well; it changed the perception around the act of driving drunk in a real and measurable way. Will a non-rapist become a rapist because of Alchemy's flyer? Probably not, but the flyer will have an impact upon how some people view the female patrons of the nightclub - and the women in the city who might be dressed like the women who were in the nightclub. Add all those social cues up and perceptions are changed significantly - and Alchemy's contribution to that perception has been crassly negative and unpleasant.

smash

Talk about over thinking it. :rolleyes:

desertcircus

smash wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Wow, a smug face in place of actually trying to explain your perspective. You'll really go to any lengths to avoid thinking about the corrosive social effect of all the "innocent fun" you're so enamoured of.

smash

desertcircus wrote: »

Wow, a smug face in place of actually trying to explain your perspective.

I explained myself loads of times!

desertcircus wrote: »

You'll really go to any lengths to avoid thinking about the corrosive social effect of all the "innocent fun" you're so enamoured of.

Yea ok then. I did think about it, and I said you're over thinking it!

keepkeyyellow

'if you're not up for it, don't cum'

If you've ever read a book or seen a movie about rape you've probably heard the rapist saying 'it's obvious you want it you're cumming' or something to that line. There's a difference between having a scantily clad girl on a club poster and making light of sexual violence. To be quite honest I don't think rape is something to be made light of, it's slowly turning into the new gay. Like how you didn't mean that the movie was gay gay just stupid gay, pretty soon people are going to be making light of joke rape and not actual rape.

smash

keepkeyyellow wrote: »

If you've ever read a book or seen a movie about rape you've probably heard the rapist saying 'it's obvious you want it you're cumming' or something to that line.

Never heard that to be honest.

keepkeyyellow wrote: »

There's a difference between having a scantily clad girl on a club poster and making light of sexual violence. To be quite honest I don't think rape is something to be made light of, it's slowly turning into the new gay. Like how you didn't mean that the movie was gay gay just stupid gay, pretty soon people are going to be making light of joke rape and not actual rape.

The club are not making light of sexual violence. It's a saying, and it has nothing to do with rape. People are taking from it what they want, and the majority according from the poll don't find it offensive at all.

PrincessLola

smash wrote: »

These young people are adults in the eyes of the the law, and believe me they know about the implications of sexual assault. Do you not remember the 15yr old who claimed rape on junior cert last year? She knew damn well what she was doing. The people going to Alchemy know too. They're not all going expecting every woman there to be an easy lay.

Statatory rape, or just rape?
And if it was statatory, where do you draw the line? Does a twelve year old 'know what they are doing', an eleven year old? Any specific age in mind?

With regards to the event, looks kinda lame. If I were to go I'd wear a suit to challenge gender constructions (and troll peoples) :pac:

keepkeyyellow

smash wrote: »

Never heard that to be honest.


The club are not making light of sexual violence. It's a saying, and it has nothing to do with rape. People are taking from it what they want, and the majority according from the poll don't find it offensive at all.

Read Push and be honest with me, what wouldn't the women in the photo be up for, and why would the promoter use cum instead of come. Like honestly.

theg81der

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77157424&postcount=8102
I find this ad extremely disturbing the other one doesn`t bother me really except that it`s clearly showing more of the same attitude. Maybe someone (lacking in intellect like most drunk men) may take this ad literally....who knows the directions seem clear, theres no room for ambiguity - is there? I think this is incitement....to me it looks like she is stumbling drunk and has just been shagged/raped(?) what do you see?

smash

PrincessLola wrote: »

Statatory rape, or just rape?
And if it was statatory, where do you draw the line? Does a twelve year old 'know what they are doing', an eleven year old? Any specific age in mind?

Rape. She was caught having sex in the toilets with another kid her own age. The bouncers asked them to leave and they were going, but the bouncers told them they couldn't walk off on their own as they're under 18 and they were the club's responsibility so they needed to call the parents. At the point she claimed rape because she didn't want her parents to think she'd sleep with a random stranger. She dropped the charges the next day and owned up to it.

PrincessLola wrote: »

With regards to the event, looks kinda lame. If I were to go I'd wear a suit to challenge gender constructions (and troll peoples) :pac:

ibarelycare

yawha wrote: »

You don't think there's any implications whatsoever in terms of the message sent to young people and attitudes towards sexual assault etc. ?

One employee of Alchemy came out on facebook and was a flat out victim blaming cunt.

http://www.universitytimes.ie/?p=8518

That's shocking. The "marketing team" behind the promotion is full of absolute morons. That article really annoyed me, I hope this isn't let lie.