Infracted in AH for breach of Charter

TheZohanS

Hi there,

I have been infracted in After Hours for a breach of forum Charter. When I questioned the moderator biko what it was for exactly, I was sent a quote from his original on-thread warning.

I did not breach the forum Charter and would like the infraction rescinded.


Thanks,

TheZohan.

The Recliner

The first part of the AH charter is the Don't be a dick rule, by making a pointed remark about another forum on Boards it could be argued that you did indeed break the charter with that post

That aside the charter can't cover all eventualities but the opening post in the thread is pretty clear in the manner that the Mods would like to see the thread conducted in and it would seem that you also overstepped the mark in respect to that as well

I don't see any reason to reverse the infraction

TheZohanS

biko has told me that "It's not a forum charter breach per se", so I either did break it or I didn't.

The Recliner

TheZohan wrote: »

biko has told me that "technically I did not break the Charter", so I either did break it or I didn't.

I would argue that you did but to be honest it isn't the nub of the matter as the charter isn't binding on the Mods, they have the remit to act on things that are not specifically referenced in the charter because it is not possible to cover everything in it, it is merely guidelines

and to quote myself

but the opening post in the thread is pretty clear in the manner that the Mods would like to see the thread conducted in and it would seem that you also overstepped the mark in respect to that as well

I have no time for rules lawyering or people trying to hide behind the charter (applies to mods and posters) so the question is: Was the infraction deserved and IMO in the context of the thread and the clear up front warning it was

TheZohanS

The Recliner wrote: »

I would argue that you did but to be honest it isn't the nub of the matter as the charter isn't binding on the Mods, they have the remit to act on things that are not specifically referenced in the charter because it is not possible to cover everything in it, it is merely guidelines

and to quote myself

I have no time for rules lawyering or people trying to hide behind the charter (applies to mods and posters) so the question is: Was the infraction deserved and IMO in the context of the thread and the clear up front warning it was

I get where you are coming from but I was infracted for a breach of forum Charter so that is what I'm disputing. I am not lawyering or trying to hide behind the forum Charter. I have always done my best to conduct myself that is in a manner in keeping with the forum rules and I believe this infraction is an overreaction.

I would say that perhaps I overstepped the mark with my comment and I do apologise for making it, it was a gross generalisation. However the infraction was not deserved. An on-thread warning would have been a sufficient reprimand.

TheZohanS

Additionally, addressing your point

but the opening post in the thread is pretty clear in the manner that the Mods would like to see the thread conducted in and it would seem that you also overstepped the mark in respect to that as well

, how many posters were infracted for breach of that warning? I've gone through 17 pages of posts and have not seen one other infraction. What I have seen is posters being warned, one or two more than once, and then being asked not to post on the thread again. That is fair and consistent moderation, my infraction on the other hand was not.
Biko has a total of 1 posts in that thread, he was not moderating the thread and I suspect that he popped in and overreacted to a reported post. I am looking for fair and consistent moderation here, not special treatment.

The Recliner

TheZohan wrote: »

I get where you are coming from but I was infracted for a breach of forum Charter so that is what I'm disputing. I am not lawyering or trying to hide behind the forum Charter. I have always done my best to conduct myself that is in a manner in keeping with the forum rules and I believe this infraction is an overreaction.

I would say that perhaps I overstepped the mark with my comment and I do apologise for making it, it was a gross generalisation. However the infraction was not deserved. An on-thread warning would have been a sufficient reprimand.

When handing out infractions the options open to mods is limited to a predefined list, the only other relevant option open in this case would have been Being Naughty/Being a Dick, some Mods refuse to use this option as it generally just inflames the situation as I am sure would have been the case here

Biko sensibly chose the less offensive option and I don't think this should be used against him or used as a reason to argue the infraction

If it makes you feel better I can get the Breach of Charter infraction removed and reissue it with the Being Naughty option

TheZohan wrote: »

Additionally, addressing your point , how many posters were infracted for breach of that warning? I've gone through 17 pages of posts and have not seen one other infraction. What I have seen is posters being warned, one or two more than once, and then being asked not to post on the thread again. That is fair and consistent moderation, my infraction on the other hand was not.
Biko has a total of 1 posts in that thread, he was not moderating the thread and I suspect that he popped in and overreacted to a reported post. I am looking for fair and consistent moderation here, not special treatment.

There are various tools open to a Moderator when taking action, Biko chose to issue an infraction, the offence warrants an infraction IMO

Feel free to get an Admin to review the case

TheZohanS

The Recliner wrote: »

When handing out infractions the options open to mods is limited to a predefined list, the only other relevant option open in this case would have been Being Naughty/Being a Dick, some Mods refuse to use this option as it generally just inflames the situation as I am sure would have been the case here

Biko sensibly chose the less offensive option and I don't think this should be used against him or used as a reason to argue the infraction

If it makes you feel better I can get the Breach of Charter infraction removed and reissue it with the Being Naughty option

Oh I see, so initially it was a breach of Charter(which I have argued is not the case), then you hint around me being a dick(a term I find offensive by the way, calling someone dick is the nothing short of abuse in it's own right)(you and I both know i was not acting the dick), then it was ignoring a mod warning(yet I have pointed out to you that fellow posters were given on-thread warnings and not infracted for this offence) and now you're willing to infract me for Being Naughty?!!! This is ridiculous, it truly is. It seems to me that a fellow Mod has reported my post and now you guys are scrambling around to try and pin some/any offence on me that you can. What next? Accuse me of posting porn?

I did not breach the Charter, I was not acting the "dick", I was not Being Naughty, the only thing I'm guilty of is a generalisation.

There are various tools open to a Moderator when taking action, Biko chose to issue an infraction, the offence warrants an infraction IMO

Yes but biko was not moderating this thread, other mods were moderating this thread. biko flew in, without proper understanding of how the thread was being moderated and issued a very harsh infraction. He overreacted.

Feel free to get an Admin to review the case

Right so, would an Admin be as kind as to review this.

Bear in mind that of all the posts in the thread, mine was the only post to be infracted and if anyone stepped out of line they were told not to post on the thread again. The fact that I received an infraction points to me being unfairly moderated, I was treated more harshly than my peers in this instance. We should not have two different sets of rules.

Khannie

TheZohan wrote: »

Bear in mind that of all the posts in the thread, mine was the only post to be infracted and if anyone stepped out of line they were told not to post on the thread again. The fact that I received an infraction points to me being unfairly moderated, I was treated more harshly than my peers in this instance. We should not have two different sets of rules.

I'm guessing you can link me to those posts rather than me trawling through that giant thread. Can you link me please?

TheZohanS

Khannie wrote: »

I'm guessing you can link me to those posts rather than me trawling through that giant thread. Can you link me please?

I can indeed, now I'm not for a moment suggesting that any of these posters that were warned should have been infracted or banned, I actually admire the way the mod, who was moderating the entire thread, moderated posters. All I'm asking for is for consistency and I think because of the fact that biko wasn't moderating this thread, and didn't see how it was being moderated he unfairly infracted me and it was not in keeping with how the thread was being moderated.

All of the warnings, there were no other infractions given out:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77107976&postcount=167

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77112181&postcount=250

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77130802&postcount=634

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77179246&postcount=979

Hope this helps clarify the situation.

Khannie

Thanks for the links. I'll get back to you.

Khannie

No decision as yet. Just keeping you up to date.

TheZohan wrote: »

I did not breach the Charter, I was not acting the "dick", I was not Being Naughty, the only thing I'm guilty of is a generalisation.

Well....I think you overstepped the mark at the end of the post. You said as much yourself.

TheZohan wrote: »

Yes but biko was not moderating this thread, other mods were moderating this thread. biko flew in, without proper understanding of how the thread was being moderated and issued a very harsh infraction. He overreacted.

The way moderation from a group of moderators works when responding to a reported post is that the most harsh moderator wins. I'll give you an example:

Let's say you and I are the moderators of a forum. Someone reports a post. I check out the reported post and I'm all "Ack...sure it's Friday". I choose not to do anything. Five minutes later you come along and go "Ah I think that deserves an infraction". Infraction occurs.

Now while the OP contains an unambiguous warning I do take your point that there was a particular vein of moderation going on in that thread. I'll discuss it with the mods a bit and get back to you. Since it's Friday evening it'll realistically be some time next week before there's any turnaround.

TheZohanS

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!


Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a poster defending my honour, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Thank you, have a good weekend.

Khannie

Well the mod was very responsive and there was a previous discussion on this for me to look at so this took less time to get to than I'd expected.

I'm upholding the card. The post in question was card worthy IMO. If you'd left the last sentence out of it then I think we could have avoided this but it crossed the line there. I don't think whatever "the line" is needs to be explicitly laid out in the charter which is one of the things you took issue with.

While I do take your point about the thread moderation, all of the mods who commented on the issue were in agreement that your post was card worthy and I'd agree with that. Nobody thought that the mod in question had overreacted (as you did). When a mod responds to a reported post they need to deal with the post as they see it and in the context of posts around it, but not in the context of the entire thread. You can't reasonably expect a mod to check the tone of a threads moderation before applying their own. Biko made a call. In isolation everyone is in agreement that it was a good call, therefore it should stand.