Minister two hours late due to Galway traffic

kinetic

They have used 24 hour roadworks in the UK for years, i cant see why its not used here, especially on main arteries like the quicentennial bridge and N17

the untitled user

Kylie Fresh Penguin wrote: »

Imagine what its going to be like with the idiots have gotten their way and the roundabouts are gone! Its going to make Galway into a joke.

Hmmm... I'm one of those "idiots". And I got across the city in 15 minutes during the peak on Friday. The solution, both in terms of cutting commute times and costs, is already there. You just gotta get on yer bike.

Doc Ruby

the untitled user wrote: »

Hmmm... I'm one of those "idiots". And I got across the city in 15 minutes during the peak on Friday. The solution, both in terms of cutting commute times and costs, is already there. You just gotta get on yer bike.

And don't forget to strap a big bag over your back for the week's groceries and three young children. Do they do bike-ambulances these days?

galwaycyclist

Doc Ruby wrote: »

And don't forget to strap a big bag over your back for the week's groceries and three young children. Do they do bike-ambulances these days?

Yes the red cross is currently setting up a bike paramedics unit. Why wouldn't you use your car for doing the family shopping or bringing your kids somewhere? If you have a car then doing that on a normal bike seems silly?

Doc Ruby

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes the red cross is currently setting up a bike paramedics unit.

They can join the bicycle fire brigade in the fast lane so.

The correct answer is "no", there isn't a bicycle ambulance because they couldn't fit a fiftieth of the gear they need onto a bicycle, nor transport patients on the back of a bicycle, just like the tens of thousands of other road users who have a "legitimate" reason to be driving a car.

Although "legitimate" in this case implies some need to justify driving a car, which further implies that the traffic problems are the fault of licensed, taxed, insured and registered drivers, rather than the fault of monumentally failed planning on the part of some beaurocratic drones who need to be fired yesterday for destroying tens of millions of euros of valuable man-hours doing busywork so central government doesn't turn the funding tap off.

In short, bicycles aren't the solution. Although it would be funny if everyone somehow managed to switch to bikes, if you thought the property crash was hard on the economy, you ain't seen nothing yet.

And stop running red lights.

muppetkiller

muppetkiller wrote: »

You can rest assured that these workers are on far from minimum pay for one thing, and the other is why is it acceptable for Bar Staff, Guards and Nurses etc to work nights at no extra cost ? This is 2012 every business requires people to work nights on occasion. From IT, 24 hour supermarkets etc it's time to get with the times.

Of course Nurses and Guards get paid extra for nights (and rightly so), Plenty work nights all the time especially because they get paid extra.

the untitled user wrote: »

Hmmm... I'm one of those "idiots". And I got across the city in 15 minutes during the peak on Friday. The solution, both in terms of cutting commute times and costs, is already there. You just gotta get on yer bike.

Come on you know well cycling is not an option for most people who travel into the city, drivers should be the main people catered for when thinking about junctions around the edge of the city as they are by far the biggest users of these junctions and that will never change, roundabouts are by far the best option for keeping traffic moving, lights are a disaster as has been demonstrated in moneen.

celty

It never ceases to amaze me how bad the traffic is in Galway for such a small city. I have friends in the US and Mexico who are astonished when they make a visit home.

Of course getting everyone on bikes is not the answer, but better public transport would do a lot to sort out the problem. The amount of people who live in Knockacnarra and Salthill and work on the eastside is astounding.

Anyway, I think it's a good thing a Government Minister had a horrible experience of Galway traffic. Might just bring the message home even a little bit.

galwaycyclist

Kylie Fresh Penguin wrote: »

Come on you know well cycling is not an option for most people who travel into the city, drivers should be the main people catered for when thinking about junctions around the edge of the city as they are by far the biggest users of these junctions and that will never change, roundabouts are by far the best option for keeping traffic moving, lights are a disaster as has been demonstrated in moneen.

Sorry but thats utter garbage. Just because some people from outside the city need cars to get to the city that does not mean we should sacrifice our quality of life so that they can also drive around the city. One does not follow the other. There are examples of similar sized cities where traffic is directed to peripheral park and ride sites from where public transport, walking and yes, cycling take over.

The roundabouts are a direct cause of excess traffic not the other way around. I was also stuck in the traffic on the old Dublin rd on Friday. I have news for you, the buses were still moving.

DecQ

celty wrote: »

Of course getting everyone on bikes is not the answer, but better public transport would do a lot to sort out the problem. The amount of people who live in Knockacnarra and Salthill and work on the eastside is astounding.

Again down to poor planning, most factories etc are East of the Corrib..but then they would have had to plan proper infrastructure to service proposed industrial/commercial sites to the West of the Corrib.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The roundabouts are a direct cause of excess traffic

What utter rubbish, but then I don't expect anything else from galway cycling campaign.

The RABs don't cause excess traffic.

Traffic lights don't cause excess traffic (thought their primary function is to stop traffic so they sure as hell don't help).

Roads don't cause excess traffic.




Trying to fit too many vehicles into a space that can't support them does.

This is the real problem with Galway traffic.



I've posted this on the GCOB thread before in the infra forum, all the traffic trying to get into and through Galway has to go through one of the 4 junctions covered in this "Galway Traffic Triangle".

No amount of proposed PT or cycling solutions will change the simple fact that we are forcing pretty much all the traffic from the east of the county to within 1km of the city center, through 4 Junctions no more that 700m distant from each other.

Fuinseog

kinetic wrote: »

They have used 24 hour roadworks in the UK for years, i cant see why its not used here, especially on main arteries like the quicentennial bridge and N17

I presume they carry out roadworks at off peak times like after 7pm as in Dublin.

what the story with the bypass. is it to go ahead?

has the new bus route on the westside opened yet and where is its terminus?

Robbo

Fuinseog wrote: »

what the story with the bypass. is it to go ahead?

Referred to the European Courts of Justice for a ruling about the environmental aspects. Written Submissions were closed in November last year and there are oral submissions to be heard. Estimates vary as to when it will be decided, from the first half of this year to 2 years from now.

antoobrien

Fuinseog wrote: »

what the story with the bypass. is it to go ahead?

There are two threads to discuss the bypass in the roads forum.

GCOB - news thread for updates.

As Robbo pointed out the Eastern section is pending a judgment from the ECJ. The judgment itself is surrounding the question on who is the appropriate body to interpret how building something is effected by the habitats directive when part of the the proposed structure is in an area of conservation or candidate area. Given that fact that most of county Galway west of the corrib has been designated as such it's an important judgment.

Is the Galway Bypass Necessary? discussion thread.

what_traffic

Doc Ruby wrote: »

And don't forget to strap a big bag over your back for the week's groceries and three young children.

Easily done with one of these: http://bakfiets.nl/eng/

Automobile traffic was at a standstill Friday evening afternoon - it did add about 10mins to my cycle commute from Parkmore to Rahoon as had to slow down overtaking all these vechicles. One of the big issues was automobiles blocking up junctions especially roundabouts

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

The RABs don't cause excess traffic.

Traffic lights don't cause excess traffic (thought their primary function is to stop traffic so they sure as hell don't help).

Roads don't cause excess traffic.

Trying to fit too many vehicles into a space that can't support them does.

This is the real problem with Galway traffic.

Yawn

So tell us. In a city where 44% of the working population lives within a 15-20minute cycle of their workplace. Why is it that even on dry days we have the place crawling to a halt because almost everybody is in their cars?

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yawn
In a city where 44% of the working population lives within a 15-20minute cycle of their workplace.

MORE than 44% of the WORKING population lives OUTSIDE the City altogether. Not counting the working population that does not work in Galway but commutes out every day...some even to Mayo.

Stop counting students and em um illegal rickshaws

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

MORE than 44% of the WORKING population lives OUTSIDE the City altogether. Not counting the working population that does not work in Galway but commutes out every day...some even to Mayo.

Stop counting students and em um illegal rickshaws

Yes but thats the point isnt it. We shouldnt let these people bring their cars into the city because they are blocking up the roads for everybody else ambulances, fire brigade, buses, delivery vehicles, tradesmen, government ministers, pedestrians and those people on those two-wheeled thingys.

Edit: I forgot blocking the roads for shoppers and people doing other business also.

Edit: Oh and blocking the roads for children trying to get to school

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes but thats the point isnt it. We shouldnt let these people bring their cars into the city because they are blocking up the roads for everybody else ambulances, fire brigade, buses, delivery vehicles, tradesmen, government ministers, pedestrians and those people on those two-wheeled thingys.

And there goes rational discussion.

waiting for the lock....

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

And there goes rational discussion.

waiting for the lock....

Sorry dude but you're the one who appears to have missed 40 odd years of European transport planning practice. If you feel your theories are so "rational", why don't you put some of that "internet board rant" energy into compiling them into a proper discussion document and publishing it under your own name?

I have.

what_traffic

galwaycyclist wrote: »

We shouldnt let these people bring their cars into the city because they are blocking up the roads for everybody else ambulances, fire brigade, buses, delivery vehicles, tradesmen, government ministers, pedestrians and those people on those two-wheeled thingys.

OR
"We should encourage these people not to bring their cars into the city....."

same principle but may not offend antoobrien to the same extent. Ha ha

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

OR
"We should encourage these people not to bring their cars into the city....."

Despite the sarcasm that comment actually makes sense.

It probably won't help your mood that what you have described is the core proposal of the bypass: the removal of traffic from areas of the city it doesn't need to be in (regardless of whether you believe that you should be in a car, bus or on a bike).

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

Despite the sarcasm that comment actually makes sense.

It probably won't help your mood that what you have described is the core proposal of the bypass: the removal of traffic from areas of the city it doesn't need to be in (regardless of whether you believe that you should be in a car, bus or on a bike).

That claim might be made for the bypass but it is not a supportable claim. Because, regardless of your prodigous capacity to engage in denial, the international experience suggests that throwing more road capacity at traffic congestion creates more traffic.

What is needed either way - bypass or no bypass - is a decision that certain types of traffic are to be discouraged, or even deliberately excluded, from using certain sets of roads within the county borough. Telling us that the bypass will achieve such a thing in the absence of such a decision is insulting peoples intelligence.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Despite the sarcasm that comment actually makes sense.

It probably won't help your mood that what you have described is the core proposal of the bypass: the removal of traffic from areas of the city it doesn't need to be in (regardless of whether you believe that you should be in a car, bus or on a bike).

If that comment makes sense - then galwaycyclist comment makes the same sense.
What do you mean mood? Am still laughing at ya.

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

That claim might be made for the bypass but it is not a supportable claim. Because, regardless of your prodigous capacity to engage in denial, the international experience suggests that throwing more road capacity at traffic congestion creates more traffic.

What is needed either way - bypass or no bypass - is a decision that certain types of traffic are to be discouraged, or even deliberately excluded, from using certain sets of roads within the county borough. Telling us that the bypass will achieve such a thing in the absence of such a decision is insulting peoples intelligence.

No. What you should do is:

1. Build a bypass
2. Tell the cars and trucks to **** off out to their bypass.
3. Block off that road space for rickshaws and bicyles etc.

YOUR PROBLEM is that much of Galways RATES come from the constrained inner core where the SHOPS ARE.

So by prioritising modalities that will not spend money you will make Galway a much safer place for cyclists and pedestrians while also bankrupting the Corpo.

But I don't care about the Corpo any more. I just don't want to drive into Galway any more and I have no choice right now do I???

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

YOUR PROBLEM is that much of Galways RATES come from the constrained inner core where the SHOPS ARE.

So by prioritising modalities that will not spend money you will make Galway a much safer place for cyclists and pedestrians while also bankrupting the Corpo.

Sorry Bob but you need to read your original post and my reply. What we are discussing here is discouraging/excluding commuter traffic. Cars that are going to do nothing except occupy space sitting still 8 hours a day while their owners generate rather than spend income. Cars that then go on to block our roads two hours a day.

By blocking the roads this commuter traffic interferes with and impedes other traffic that wishes to engage in commerce such as shopping. By blocking car parking capacity it exerts the same effect.

I would hope that the Commercial Rate Payers (the shopocracy) would welcome measures that would increase business for them. Unfortunately I am not convinced that they have the necessary level of intellectual engagement to take the opportunity. I suspect some of them might be more worried about parking thier own mercs rather than getting their customers into the city.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

By blocking the roads this commuter traffic interferes with and impedes other traffic that wishes to engage in commerce such as shopping. By blocking car parking capacity it exerts the same effect.

Shopping hours are much longer in Galway than they are in Dublin and commuters don't cause the traffic problems often seen on Saturdays & Sundays (which don't get reported in the press). If there are shoppers driving into galway with commuter traffic they deserve to get stuck in it.

The parking thing is a bit of a nonsense as well as workers and shoppers don't tend to be in the same areas (city center aside) in any serious numbers (i.e. 1/2 staff cars vs 5/6 customer cars at any one time), so there's not a whole lot of capacity blocking there for shoppers (if they're willing to pay for their parking that is).

And before you get going on the school run, unless I'm mistaken last Friday was a mid term - so there was no school run. Ah no wait, because there was no schools, the kids had to b brought somewhere, causing more traffic than the normal school run, silly me.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Sorry dude but you're the one who appears to have missed 40 odd years of European transport planning practice. If you feel your theories are so "rational",

So tell me how it's rational, or conforming to all these international transport best practices to concentrate traffic on 4 junctions covering an area of about 1.75 hectares/4.3 acres?

I'm going to put that into context, the grounds pearse stadium is built (inside the walls) on is approx 200m*150m - 3 hectares.

Terryland Park - approx 120m*150m (including car parks) - is on 1.8 hectares.

The distances along the roads between the junctions are approx 300m, 650m, 500m (Moneen to Cemetery cross, on to bodkin/HRR and on again to kirwan/ballinfoyle).


It's been obvious to anyone that drove, cycled or walked in Galway in the late 90s (when the population of the county, which is related to the number of cars, was ) that this was going to be a problem if car use increased. And guess what as the population increased and PT remained stuck in the 80s (possibly 70s I'm a bit young for that judgment call) car use did increase.

The NRA, Galway City and County councils in a rare fit of seeing a problem ahead of time attempted to do something about this in the late 90s - started planning GCOB - the suggested routes for which were published over 10 years ago.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Shopping hours are much longer in Galway than they are in Dublin and commuters don't cause the traffic problems often seen on Saturdays & Sundays (which don't get reported in the press). If there are shoppers driving into galway with commuter traffic they deserve to get stuck in it.

Can you be specific on this assertion? How much longer? What days are they longer in Galway?

antoobrien wrote: »

The parking thing is a bit of a nonsense as well as workers and shoppers don't tend to be in the same areas (city center aside) in any serious numbers (i.e. 1/2 staff cars vs 5/6 customer cars at any one time), so there's not a whole lot of capacity blocking there for shoppers (if they're willing to pay for their parking that is).

Galway Chamber of Commerce would disagree with you on this statement.

antoobrien wrote: »

And before you get going on the school run, unless I'm mistaken last Friday was a mid term - so there was no school run. Ah no wait, because there was no schools, the kids had to b brought somewhere, causing more traffic than the normal school run, silly me.

Your not mistaken it was not a school day here in Galway city, I presume Dublin was the same?

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

So tell me how it's rational, or ..... blah blah blah yada yada yada

Yawn again

Straw man. Current topic is diversion of car-based commuter traffic to other modes.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

So tell me how it's rational, or conforming to all these international transport best practices to concentrate traffic on 4 junctions covering an area of about 1.75 hectares/4.3 acres?

Contact the NRA or Galway City/County Council for an answer to this query?