Minister two hours late due to Galway traffic

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

So tell me how it's rational, or conforming to all these international transport best practices to concentrate traffic on 4 junctions covering an area of about 1.75 hectares/4.3 acres?

And just in case you don't understand the import of your own arguments. It doesnt matter how many outer by passes you build. Traffic coming into the east city centre will still have to concentrate in this zone. Therefore we still have to come up with solutions that make a more effective use of this space and the approaching roads.

Hint: filling it up with single occupant cars is not likely to offer a long term solution.

Sponge Bob

Try to remember that I don't WANT to go into the City most of the time, I want to go around it and leave its to other modalities. It will mean a certain commercial death for much of the centre but so what.....I don't think it worth paying €2.50 an hour to park in there anyway.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Try to remember that I don't WANT to go into the City most of the time, I want to go around it and leave its to other modalities. It will mean a certain commercial death for much of the centre but so what.....I don't think it worth paying €2.50 an hour to park in there anyway.

Sure but why should you have to be fighting for road capacity with people who don't need, or want, to bring their cars for that particular trip?

Commercial death is not guaranteed if we have a level playing pitch for parking costs. This could be achieved by levying all car parking so that cost per use is matched to need and suitability of land use to location.

daithimacgroin

2.50 an hour?
****in walk

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Sorry but thats utter garbage. Just because some people from outside the city need cars to get to the city that does not mean we should sacrifice our quality of life so that they can also drive around the city. One does not follow the other. There are examples of similar sized cities where traffic is directed to peripheral park and ride sites from where public transport, walking and yes, cycling take over.

The roundabouts are a direct cause of excess traffic not the other way around. I was also stuck in the traffic on the old Dublin rd on Friday. I have news for you, the buses were still moving.

For a start who wants to have to get out of there car and cycle or get a bus after already travelling into town to work its completely unfair and impacts on quality of life. Also your on a bike traffic or no traffic roundabout or lights its makes no difference to you, you cycle past it all either way. However you have some agenda against cars like a few more knocking around this forum and its annoys the hell out of me.

Also I have no issues with bus lanes but personally I cant stand using buses and as I pay well for the pleause of using the roads in tax, insurance, vat and excise on petrol I should be afforded the courtesy of having motorists concerns being key when planning roads and junctions on the main entry routes to the city, obviously city center planning has to be juggled more to try and suit all parties.

People who don't own cars contribute nothing to the roads around the county yet they are happy to dictate what should and shouldn't be done, like not allowing people drive into the city, what sort of nonsense is that.

galwaycyclist

Kylie Fresh Penguin wrote: »

For a start who wants ........

This is not about what any individual "wants" this is about managing our city in an efficient effective manner for the primary benefit of its residents.

The reason the city is now in a mess is because it was designed by engineers and planners who confused motorists' "letters to santa" with "transport planning".

The public roads are a public good provided for the benefit of all citizens regardless of what taxes they have or haven't paid. A child walking to school has equal rights to use the public road and is actually fulfilling a legal obligation imposed by the state in doing so. Therefore that child or any other citizen, is entitled to expect that the state will balance his or her interests with those of other road users.

And yes my car is fully taxed

?Cee?view

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The public roads are a public good provided for the benefit of all citizens regardless of what taxes they have or haven't paid.

Exactly, all citizens, not a small vocal minority who have the luxury of choosing to cycle.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

A child walking to school has equal rights to use the public road and is actually fulfilling a legal obligation imposed by the state in doing so.

So get cars/trucks that don't need to be near those schools away from those schools i.e. onto a bypass.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Contact the NRA or Galway City/County Council for an answer to this query?

Their answer was to start planning the GCOB in 1999.

?Cee?view

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Current topic is diversion of car-based commuter traffic to other modes.

It's not actually. Have a look at the thread title. It's about the Minister being late due to excessive traffic. You're the one trying to push an agenda by raising other modes in this thread.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Try to remember that I don't WANT to go into the City most of the time, I want to go around it and leave its to other modalities

Which bit of this do you NOT understand. ????

I do not live in Galway I live West of Galway. I do not want to share roadspace with you people I simply want to go PAST Galway when I wish. 10's of 1,000s of other people live West of Galway too. We have lives and businesses which are nothing to do with Galway. Yet we are forced to transit your mess right now.

I don't actually care what you people do with your city as long as I am not FORCED to go through it any more which is the situation right now. I can make helpful suggestions and you people will ignore them anyway.

If you wish to destroy it and prevent business from happening in its commercial centre (other than weekend stag parties that come by train) that is your business, not mine.

McTigs

Kylie Fresh Penguin wrote: »

For a start who wants to have to get out of there car and cycle or get a bus after already travelling into town to work

It's not about what people want and don't want, it's about what's best.

Kylie Fresh Penguin wrote: »

like not allowing people drive into the city, what sort of nonsense is that.

nonsense that has been hugely successfull in towns bigger, smaller and the same size as galway in many countries in across europe that aren't stuck in the dark ages like we appear to be.

People need to stop being terrified of the slightest inconvenience and move forward.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The reason the city is now in a mess is because it was designed by engineers and planners who confused motorists' "letters to santa" with "transport planning".

Can you see the blue dot in the center of the picture, the one with all the green lines (roads) converging on it?


The reason the city is in a mess is because all the traffic is being routed onto that little dot - not making use of the (only available) space north of the city to avoid the city.

Here's a lower altitude view of the same map.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Their answer was to start planning the GCOB in 1999.

Ha ha your hilarious - do you have a copy of that letter?

Fuinseog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yawn

So tell us. In a city where 44% of the working population lives within a 15-20minute cycle of their workplace. Why is it that even on dry days we have the place crawling to a halt because almost everybody is in their cars?

because the perception out there is that only students and poor people cycle bikes. a lot more office workers cycle to work in places like Dublin. you are not going to sweat that much in a 15 min cycle.

a lot of parents in Galway will not let their kids cycle to school, because it is considered too dangerous, so mum will block the road doing the school run.

attitudes towards cycling differ from country to country and city to city. In Dublin for example no remotely responsible individual would mount a bike day or night without a high vis and helmet, yet this gear seems somewhat rarer in Galway.

Fuinseog

antoobrien wrote: »

So tell me how it's rational, or conforming to all these international transport best practices to concentrate traffic on 4 junctions covering an area of about 1.75 hectares/4.3 acres?

I'm going to put that into context, the grounds pearse stadium is built (inside the walls) on is approx 200m*150m - 3 hectares.

Terryland Park - approx 120m*150m (including car parks) - is on 1.8 hectares.

The distances along the roads between the junctions are approx 300m, 650m, 500m (Moneen to Cemetery cross, on to bodkin/HRR and on again to kirwan/ballinfoyle).


It's been obvious to anyone that drove, cycled or walked in Galway in the late 90s (when the population of the county, which is related to the number of cars, was ) that this was going to be a problem if car use increased. And guess what as the population increased and PT remained stuck in the 80s (possibly 70s I'm a bit young for that judgment call) car use did increase.

The NRA, Galway City and County councils in a rare fit of seeing a problem ahead of time attempted to do something about this in the late 90s - started planning GCOB - the suggested routes for which were published over 10 years ago.

the dyke road is a nightmare scenario for years. the stadium car park looks as if if can take a maximum of thirty cars so people just park on both sides of the road making the road impassable.

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

The reason the city is in a mess is because all the traffic is being routed onto that little dot - not making use of the (only available) space north of the city to avoid the city.

Abject rubbish. Write 100 lines "I should not insult peoples intelligence in public because they laugh at me".

The reason the city is in a mess is because much of the traffic routed into that little dot does not need to be there. It was "created" by incompetent planning and equally incompetent traffic management policies.

There is a rule in military campaigns - never reinforce failure. Putting in an outer by pass as the primary response to incompetent decisions is reinforcing failure.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Can you see the blue dot in the center of the picture, the one with all the green lines (roads) converging on it?


The reason the city is in a mess is because all the traffic is being routed onto that little dot - not making use of the (only available) space north of the city to avoid the city.

Here's a lower altitude view of the same map.

No its not. Your implying that all vechicular traffic needs to go through "Anto's" famous triangle. Not true

Fuinseog

what_traffic wrote: »

No its not. Your implying that all vechicular traffic needs to go through "Anto's" famous triangle. Not true

maybe more use should be made of the river.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Which bit of this do you NOT understand. ????

I do not live in Galway I live West of Galway. I do not want to share roadspace with you people I simply want to go PAST Galway when I wish. 10's of 1,000s of other people live West of Galway too. We have lives and businesses which are nothing to do with Galway. Yet we are forced to transit your mess right now.

I don't actually care what you people do with your city as long as I am not FORCED to go through it any more which is the situation right now. I can make helpful suggestions and you people will ignore them anyway.

If you wish to destroy it and prevent business from happening in its commercial centre (other than weekend stag parties that come by train) that is your business, not mine.

Who are you talking to?

Fieldsman

Well if the health minister had to walk a couple of miles it wont do him any harm though Id say it wouldn't happen John O'Donoghoe in his day as he'd have gone by helicopter

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Ha ha your hilarious - do you have a copy of that letter?

It's not exactly new, I mean we got posted the proposed routes over 10 years ago (pity I don't have the original brochure).

You can see the history of the project on the project website (run by Galway county council)
GCOB project website

From chapter 7 of the 1998 NRA road needs study dealing with Urban road schemes:

7.7.4 Galway
There is a transportation study ongoing for Galway City which could identify the need for additional works such as an extra river crossing or outer bypass of the city.

The indicative cost of a Galway bypass was £50m (we're up to twice that for just the eastern section, there's progress for you:mad:).

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

No its not. Your implying that all vechicular traffic needs to go through "Anto's" famous triangle. Not true

And I've been called deluded:rolleyes:.

Tell me wise one where else can the vehicular traffic go, if trying to get into the city or to the west?

And if you suggest crestwood & monument rd as a realistic a option for the traffic that's trying to get into Galway I'm not going to be able to get any work done for the next month or so because I've have bust a gut from laughing.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

And I've been called deluded:rolleyes:.

Tell me wise one where else can the vehicular traffic go, if trying to get into the city or to the west?

And if you suggest crestwood & monument rd as a realistic a option for the traffic that's trying to get into Galway I'm not going to be able to get any work done for the next month or so because I've have bust a gut from laughing.

You did not specify that it was vechicles who destination was not the city center. Look at your sentence again.

antoobrien wrote: »

The reason the city is in a mess is because all the traffic is being routed onto that little dot

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

It's not exactly new, I mean we got posted the proposed routes over 10 years ago (pity I don't have the original brochure).

You can see the history of the project on the project website (run by Galway county council)
GCOB project website

From chapter 7 of the 1998 NRA road needs study dealing with Urban road schemes:



The indicative cost of a Galway bypass was £50m (we're up to twice that for just the eastern section, there's progress for you:mad:).

Your straying here - your question was about the rational of your triangle. See your post here So the answer you got from the City/County Road engineers was they created this "triangle" so that they could develop/create another solution . ie the GCOB?

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

You did not specify that it was vechicles who destination was not the city center. Look at your sentence again.

What about the next bit of that sentence:

not making use of the (only available) space north of the city to avoid the city.

I'll also refer you to post 41 (which it's fairly safe to assume you selectively ignored since you thanked the post made 2 before it and you made a post on the same page):

antoobrien wrote: »

we are forcing pretty much all the traffic from the east of the county to within 1km of the city center, through 4 Junctions no more that 700m distant from each other.

Try to keep up please.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

What about the next bit of that sentence:



I'll also refer you to post 41 (which it's fairly safe to assume you selectively ignored since you thanked the post made 2 before it and you made a post on the same page):



Try to keep up please.

I dont doubt your triangle theory, in fact it does not even need to be a triangle. We have 3 junctions within 1km of each other to cross from East to West, its hardly breaking news.

galwaycyclist

churchview wrote: »

Exactly, all citizens, not a small vocal minority who have the luxury of choosing to cycle.

Funny thing is that 9% of the population in Salthill already cycles to work. This is without any special "cycling" infrastructure. The main difference is that it was laid out by planners and engineers that had some idea what they were doing.

Similar levels are likely from other areas of town if infrastructural deficits such as roundabouts and rat runs were addressed.

churchview wrote: »

So get cars/trucks that don't need to be near those schools away from those schools i.e. onto a bypass.

If there are cars and trucks using school routes that don't need to be there then just stop them. See thread on Renmore Park. There are similar issues in Menlo, Castlegar etc. Just do it now, create the necessary conditions to get the kids walking and cycling now. Not wait for the bypass, not wait for the second coming of the Messiah - do it now.

But then again you boys and girls always seem to be full of excuses for what can't be done.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

If there are cars and trucks using school routes that don't need to be there then just stop them. See thread on Renmore Park. There are similar issues in Menlo, Castlegar etc.

Standard knee jerk reaction, did you consider that they might be based in the areas in question?

I don't know about the situation in Renmore but I do know people who operate trucks out of their homes/yards in the Menlo & Castlegar areas.

Now you might think that they don't need to be on a road near their base of operations (i.e. home), some of which are near the schools in question, but that's very different to their actual need to operate their businesses.

There is/used to be a quarry in Menlo which, if it's still operational (i don't know) might explain some of that traffic. I know the Roadstone quarry is still operational on the Tuam rd (which is very near to the entrance to castlegar village - hence the school), so they might have a valid reason to be in the area.

Small bit of common sense might be required in looking at the potential that they're actually there for a reason other than to avoid traffic.

?Cee?view

Can some of the cycling zealots answer me this directly without obfuscation?

Are you against the bypass? If so, why, when it will take traffic away from the City Centre?

?Cee?view

McTigs wrote: »

It's not about what people want and don't want, it's about what's best.

And who are you to decide what's best for anyone other than yourself?

McTigs wrote: »

nonsense that has been hugely successfull in towns bigger, smaller and the same size as galway in many countries in across europe that aren't stuck in the dark ages like we appear to be.

In such towns they've generally taken an integrated approach, providing the proper infrastructure which allows the use of all modes, as people freely choose. In Galway the physical infrastructure is years behind. Until the bypass is built you can't force traffic i.e. people around the city/out of the city on non-existant roads.

McTigs wrote: »

People need to stop being terrified of the slightest inconvenience and move forward.

That's just nonsense. The change that's needed is that Galway needs to catch up with the rest of the country's cities and large towns and put in place the road network that's needed.