Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

Xenji

Still think I should be getting better speeds on the 70mb plan, the cab is literally across the road.

enigmatical

Xenji wrote: »

Still think I should be getting better speeds on the 70mb plan, the cab is literally across the road.

That doesn't mean that your wiring runs straight across the road though.

it could be going the scenic route to your house.

godskitchen

Internal wiring makes a huge difference.

Have a look at the forums from New Zealand on vdsl, they have had it a lot longer than us, almost 2 years, and have some great tips and experience.

Has anyone had their line "settle" after a few days? Keep seeing people say it will improve after a few days but no evidence to back it up.

godskitchen

enigmatical wrote: »

That doesn't mean that your wiring runs straight across the road though.

it could be going the scenic route to your house.

Post the xDsl stats from your modem, it will give us a better idea of what might be wrong, if anything....

Nate--IRL--

Good Idea, here's mine - note the attainable rates and line rate. But I'm only getting 50 down and 5 up.

============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.541 Mbps 50.268 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 50.170 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 9.8 dB 12.8 dB
Actual Delay: 7 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: - 5.9 dBm 12.0 dBm
Receive Power: -21.7 dBm -3.8 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 15.7 dB 15.9 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 27.768 Mbps 82.176 Mbps
============================================================================

Nate

Israeli Superiority

godskitchen wrote: »

Internal wiring makes a huge difference.

Have a look at the forums from New Zealand on vdsl, they have had it a lot longer than us, almost 2 years, and have some great tips and experience.

Has anyone had their line "settle" after a few days? Keep seeing people say it will improve after a few days but no evidence to back it up.

Do you have a link for these forums?

enigmatical

godskitchen wrote: »

Internal wiring makes a huge difference.

Have a look at the forums from New Zealand on vdsl, they have had it a lot longer than us, almost 2 years, and have some great tips and experience.

Has anyone had their line "settle" after a few days? Keep seeing people say it will improve after a few days but no evidence to back it up.

The NTU being installed in Ireland removes internal wiring from the equation entirely.

The internal wiring is completely filtered off by the NTU, assuming the installation is done correctly and someone hasn't subsequently tampered with it.

The same situation applies with OpenReach installations in the UK. A central filter at the incoming line is used.

I'm assuming Telecom NZ didn't do that if people are having internal wiring issues. They must have just continued to install it like ADSL2+ with plug in microfilters at each phone point.

Also NZ used the same system for wiring as BT. This includes 3rd wire ringing which can create additional problems by acting like an antenna connected to the circuit.
The BT new NTU installed for VDSL connections removes that problem too.

Ireland uses a standard 2-wire system much like the USA and Canada. There's no 3rd wire needed.

Once there has been an engineer installation and an NTU fitted on the incoming line, the internal wiring no longer presents an issue at all. it's completely filtered and only the VDSL2 modem is on the raw line. All other wiring is connected via a filter

You shouldn't do anything like bypassing the NTU filter though or connect anything directly to the line.

all extension wiring must be connected only to the L1 and L2 screw down connectors on the back of the removable face plate on the NTU and absolutely never to the incoming line directly.


The whole reason for the engineer visits is to eliminate internal wiring issues by fitting the NTU with a central filter and ensuring that your internal wiring isn't in anyway interfering with the VDSL2 modem.

to be fair to eircom, it's a very sensible policy and it will ultimately reduce a lot of technical support issues.

it's not a good idea to follow advice from NZ or even UK forums on this. The wiring systems are significantly different to eircom and there's no self install option simply because they want to avoid DIY wiring disasters.

if your line is noisy after VDSL2 installation lodge a tech support complaint as it can't be your internal wiring that's causing the problem in an Irish installation.

enigmatical

Solair provided a diagram further back up the thread on this :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84531944&postcount=2908

Image:

From what I've seen elsewhere in Europe, there are quite a few European telephone companies that do something similar to what BT and Eircom do, albeit with various different types of central filters, but it achieves the same end result.

I know in the states, they often just provide VDSL2 as if it were ADSL and you can completely screw up your signal with internal wiring. It seems most European telcos are pretty determined to avoid that problem.

tsue921i8wljb3

enigmatical wrote: »

Solair provided a diagram further back up the thread on this :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84531944&postcount=2908

Image:

From what I've seen elsewhere in Europe, there are quite a few European telephone companies that do something similar to what BT and Eircom do, albeit with various different types of central filters, but it achieves the same end result.

I know in the states, they often just provide VDSL2 as if it were ADSL and you can completely screw up your signal with internal wiring. It seems most European telcos are pretty determined to avoid that problem.

I saw that Solair has closed his/her account. Another knowledgeable poster gone.

PeadarB

enigmatical wrote: »

if your line is noisy after VDSL2 installation lodge a tech support complaint as it can't be your internal wiring that's causing the problem in an Irish installation.

Stats after the initial set-up -
================================================
Status: 30/05/13
================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 1 hour: 14 minutes
================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 20.543 Mbps 61.532 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 20.479 Mbps 61.432 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 11.7 dB 19.4 dB
Actual Delay: 7 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: -13.4 dBm 12.4 dBm
Receive Power: -24.4 dBm 0.1 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 10.9 dB 12.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 30.027 Mbps 118.028 Mbps
================================================

And yesterday afternoon -

================================================

Status 13.35pm 14/06/13

================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 4 days: 16 hours: 55 minutes
================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 15.417 Mbps 50.268 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 15.359 Mbps 50.170 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 13.2 dB 17.4 dB
Actual Delay: 7 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: -13.3 dBm 12.5 dBm
Receive Power: -24.5 dBm 0.0 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 11.4 dB 12.4 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 26.473 Mbps 98.920 Mbps
================================================
VDSL Band StatusU0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.4 14.6 21.7 N/A 8.5 19.9 32.0
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.4 14.1 20.0 N/A 8.6 19.9 31.9
SNR Margin(dB): 13.4 13.2 13.2 N/A 17.4 17.4 17.4
Transmit Power(dBm):-24.1 -15.3 -18.1 N/A 8.3 7.8 6.9
================================================


Interface status DSL remains constant at RX:50170/ TX:15359(Kbps)

I suspect eircom have plans for that additional bandwidth. It would appear that Vodafone speedtests are somewhat higher than eircoms. My connection is stable and constant despite obvious differences in line rates and attainables etc.

enigmatical

Jedidiah Billions Caricature wrote: »

I saw that Solair has closed his/her account. Another knowledgeable poster gone.

Asked him a question a while back : He's off coz he's trying to finish up some major university research thing and seems to be up to his eye-balls in work and decided to shut down forums, Facebook and Twitter. Nothing more conspiratorial than that.

tsue921i8wljb3

enigmatical wrote: »

Asked him a question a while back : He's off coz he's trying to finish up some major university research thing and seems to be up to his eye-balls in work and decided to shut down forums, Facebook and Twitter. Nothing more conspiratorial than that.

I wasn't implying any conspiracy. It's just a pity to lose a good contributor. I wish him well with his research.

enigmatical

PeadarB wrote: »

Stats after the initial set-up -

In most of these systems, the DSLAM will try various things on your line over a few days to see which works best. They're fairly intelligent these days.

It's odd in that case as the SNR margin was a little different on the second day.

Perhaps the DSLAM decided that your line was unstable at the higher speed and dropped back a bit.

I'd give it a few days to figure itself out, then if your speed's unstable or if you're having issues with stability, get onto the ISP.

If you notice it changes on wet days, get onto eircom though as it could be a junction box with water in it or a damaged cable.
We had issues with that before on a ADSL2+ line.

It'd drop a full 3mbit/s on wet days! lol


some line noise and crosstalk from other DSL modems on the same bundle of wires is inevitable though. Telephone circuits aren't really shielded other than being twisted pairs. they are only really designed to avoid voice crosstalk.

eircom are planning to rollout a technology called 'vectoring'. That will see a speed bump up to 100mbits and should take care of any DSL crosstalk issues.

red_bairn

enigmatical wrote: »

In most of these systems, the DSLAM will try various things on your line over a few days to see which works best. They're fairly intelligent these days.

It's odd in that case as the SNR margin was a little different on the second day.

Perhaps the DSLAM decided that your line was unstable at the higher speed and dropped back a bit.

I'd give it a few days to figure itself out, then if your speed's unstable or if you're having issues with stability, get onto the ISP.

If you notice it changes on wet days, get onto eircom though as it could be a junction box with water in it or a damaged cable.
We had issues with that before on a ADSL2+ line.

It'd drop a full 3mbit/s on wet days! lol

What is a junction box? Is the junction box in the manholes?

godskitchen

enigmatical wrote: »

The NTU being installed in Ireland removes internal wiring from the equation entirely.

The internal wiring is completely filtered off by the NTU, assuming the installation is done correctly and someone hasn't subsequently tampered with it.

The same situation applies with OpenReach installations in the UK. A central filter at the incoming line is used.

I'm assuming Telecom NZ didn't do that if people are having internal wiring issues. They must have just continued to install it like ADSL2+ with plug in microfilters at each phone point.

Also NZ used the same system for wiring as BT. This includes 3rd wire ringing which can create additional problems by acting like an antenna connected to the circuit.
The BT new NTU installed for VDSL connections removes that problem too.

Ireland uses a standard 2-wire system much like the USA and Canada. There's no 3rd wire needed.

Once there has been an engineer installation and an NTU fitted on the incoming line, the internal wiring no longer presents an issue at all. it's completely filtered and only the VDSL2 modem is on the raw line. All other wiring is connected via a filter

You shouldn't do anything like bypassing the NTU filter though or connect anything directly to the line.

all extension wiring must be connected only to the L1 and L2 screw down connectors on the back of the removable face plate on the NTU and absolutely never to the incoming line directly.


The whole reason for the engineer visits is to eliminate internal wiring issues by fitting the NTU with a central filter and ensuring that your internal wiring isn't in anyway interfering with the VDSL2 modem.

to be fair to eircom, it's a very sensible policy and it will ultimately reduce a lot of technical support issues.

it's not a good idea to follow advice from NZ or even UK forums on this. The wiring systems are significantly different to eircom and there's no self install option simply because they want to avoid DIY wiring disasters.

if your line is noisy after VDSL2 installation lodge a tech support complaint as it can't be your internal wiring that's causing the problem in an Irish installation.

Internal wiring can cause problems.....

I was on a site yesterday where Eircom had put the NTU where the customer had been connecting to their original DSL line..... It was no where near the demarcation point where the line comes into the building.

There was 40 meters of 24 core, non shielded, non twisted cable between the Vdsl line entry point and the NTU.

I moved the Vdsl modem right next to the entry point of the line and hooked it up to the NTU via 50cm of CAT6, only using 1 twisted pair.

Not sure if it will make a difference to the speed of the line as yet but it sure as hell must help cut down on noise!

enigmatical

godskitchen wrote: »

Internal wiring can cause problems.....

I was on a site yesterday where Eircom had put the NTU where the customer had been connecting to their original DSL line..... It was no where near the demarcation point where the line comes into the building.

There was 40 meters of 24 core, non shielded, non twisted cable between the Vdsl line entry point and the NTU.

I moved the Vdsl modem right next to the entry point of the line and hooked it up to the NTU via 50cm of CAT6, only using 1 twisted pair.

Not sure if it will make a difference to the speed of the line as yet but it sure as hell must help cut down on noise!

They're not supposed to do that!
However, in most houses that's very unlikely to occur as the line normally comes straight in, or nearly straight into the NTU socket.


the run from the line to the NTU should be twisted pair though if it's not directly connected to it.

godskitchen

Israeli Superiority wrote: »

Do you have a link for these forums?

http://m.geekzone.co.nz/Forums/90/Topic/105744

Not all the info is relevant and its a long thread but there is some great info in there.

godskitchen

enigmatical wrote: »

They're not supposed to do that!
However, in most houses that's very unlikely to occur as the line normally comes straight in, or nearly straight into the NTU socket.


the run from the line to the NTU should be twisted pair though if it's not directly connected to it.

I know they are not supposed to do that..... Unfortunately I wasn't on site as planned when the install happened, I would have never let it happen. It seems the eircom, and it was eircom as opposed to KN, just wanted to get in and out.

He did a speed test and it was showing 10 down and said its because of distance to the cab. Neighbour is getting 33 down. They are further away from the cab, they are the end lot on an industrial estate.

I knew something was wrong when I called to check how the install went.

godskitchen

Does anyone know what the Training Status means on the modems?

I think I get what the Training is but what does "Showtime" mean?

I havnt seen anything else besides "Showtime" either, in real life or on forums.....

enigmatical

The DSLAM does the training for line profiles and complicated stuff.

the modem just does it anytime it's reconnected.

showtime just means the modem is connected and working normally.


unfortunately, a bit of geek humour remains in the code!

red_bairn

godskitchen wrote: »

Does anyone know what the Training Status means on the modems?

I think I get what the Training is but what does "Showtime" mean?

I havnt seen anything else besides "Showtime" either, in real life or on forums.....

Showtime indicates the modem is in sync.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19427267-

enigmatical

it's because someone in some lab thought it would be cool to say 'it's showtime!!'

red_bairn

enigmatical wrote: »

it's because someone in some lab thought it would be cool to say 'it's showtime!!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUapZhcsdx8

murphaph

enigmatical wrote: »

I know in the states, they often just provide VDSL2 as if it were ADSL and you can completely screw up your signal with internal wiring. It seems most European telcos are pretty determined to avoid that problem.

Not in Germany any way. I've ordered 50\10 VDSL and they told me they won't be coming to my home, they'll just send me the new modem. We'll see how it pans out.

enigmatical

murphaph wrote: »

Not in Germany any way. I've ordered 50\10 VDSL and they told me they won't be coming to my home, they'll just send me the new modem. We'll see how it pans out.

Probably fairly OK. although you'd never know.

I think eircom's approach is more foolproof though!

some countries had extremely strict rules on internal wiring though, so you might find its a non issue

luke111

i live in blacktrench naas,kildare,my broadband is 3meg but i get only 2meg,the efibre is't being rolled out in my area,but is about 2 mies away just wondering would that make my broadband any faster,i know i would't get super fast broadband but would broadband speed be anyway better

ED E

Nope, wont change at all.

luke111

my broadband speed is 3meg but i only get 2meg,the efibre is't being rolled out in my area but is 2miles away just wondering would my broadband speed be anyway faster,i know it would't be super fast but would it be a little bit quicker,i live in blacktrench naas kildare

Mickalus

luke111 wrote: »

my broadband speed is 3meg but i only get 2meg,the efibre is't being rolled out in my area but is 2miles away just wondering would my broadband speed be anyway faster,i know it would't be super fast but would it be a little bit quicker,i live in blacktrench naas kildare

Like Ed E said, no it won't

CastorTroy

Don't know if this was posted before but I rang eircom on Friday to find out the status of my order I placed through a rep. Order isn't in the system but the guy said I was the third person he's dealt with that had the problem and the reps apparently aren't or weren't putting the orders through correctly. So now he's escalated the problem for me.
So if anyone else ordered through a rep and has had no further contact, this may be why.