Your Knowledge of the Rules of Golf

SnowDrifts

Good point - The R&A Rules app for the iphone is actually very good and also free. Well organised and very quick and easy to search.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

There are so many options in each scenario thus there are so many rules/explanations.

Thats why they give you a book, if you dont know the situation you find yourself in then look it up!

There is no valid excuse for not knowing the basic, everyday rules.

They are not basic to most, you find them basic, fair play, some pros on tour make errors . For example, an easy basic option in the example above could be a drop zone.

There are loads of reasons (not excuses) why the rules are not known or understood. The survey here proves that knowledge is poor. In other sports the rules are coached and very basic.

The idea that all should just go off and read a book is not going to work, it has not worked, is not working and will not work.

Humans are lazy and not all able to comprehend written instructions.

I bet even after watching the visual above perhaps 20 % would not understand it, and 50 % would not remember it. 10 % would not get exactly what equidistance means.

I'd say it is a rare 3 ball that would play the round 100 % correct. You may find them easy , but the system is a failure. Perhaps this is people , perhaps the R&A , the GUI, the clubs.

cackhanded

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The survey here proves that knowledge is poor.

The survey here proves that some people answered a survey, nothing else.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The idea that all should just go off and read a book is not going to work, it has not worked, is not working and will not work.

Nobody is suggesting you go off and read the rule book cover to cover. What they are suggesting is that you should consult it whenever you encounter a situation on the course and are unsure what action you should take.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Humans are lazy and not all able to comprehend written instructions.

Speak for yourself.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I bet even after watching the visual above perhaps 20 % would not understand it, and 50 % would not remember it. 10 % would not get exactly what equidistance means.

Admit it, you just made all that up, didn't you?

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd say it is a rare 3 ball that would play the round 100 % correct.

I'd say you're just making stuff up again. In my experience it is rare for at least 1 person in a 3 ball not to know the correct ruling on a given, commonly occuring situation.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

You may find them easy , but the system is a failure. Perhaps this is people , perhaps the R&A , the GUI, the clubs.

Individual golfers who don't bother to try and learn the most common, basic rules are the failure. The same individuals who spend €00's on equipment, spend hours writing and reading on internet forums, but can't be bothered to spare a couple of minutes checking a rule when the situation arises.

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

They are not basic to most, you find them basic, fair play, some pros on tour make errors . For example, an easy basic option in the example above could be a drop zone.

I'm sorry but I think thats a total cop out.

Are you seriously telling me that after reading the rules you dont understand what your options are for an unplayable shot or a lost ball? Seriously?

Pros make errors because they rely on others to tell them what to do. If a pro make an error when he could have consulted the book or just waited for an official then he is either an idiot or had a brain fart. Its not an excuse and thats why they get penalised.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Humans are lazy and not all able to comprehend written instructions.

I bet even after watching the visual above perhaps 20 % would not understand it, and 50 % would not remember it. 10 % would not get exactly what equidistance means.

Ok so in your own words, written rules dont work, spoken rules dont work and visual rules dont work. What exactly are you suggesting the R&A or clubs (or superman or whoever you think should be involved) does?
Some Matrix style downloadable training? :rolleyes:

The rest of your post is 74% made up numbers so I choose to ignore it.

golfwallah

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

They are not basic to most, you find them basic, fair play, some pros on tour make errors . For example, an easy basic option in the example above could be a drop zone.

There are loads of reasons (not excuses) why the rules are not known or understood. The survey here proves that knowledge is poor. In other sports the rules are coached and very basic.

The idea that all should just go off and read a book is not going to work, it has not worked, is not working and will not work.

Humans are lazy and not all able to comprehend written instructions.

I bet even after watching the visual above perhaps 20 % would not understand it, and 50 % would not remember it. 10 % would not get exactly what equidistance means.

I'd say it is a rare 3 ball that would play the round 100 % correct. You may find them easy , but the system is a failure. Perhaps this is people , perhaps the R&A , the GUI, the clubs.

First you say the rules are too complicated, now you say the system is a failure – without providing properly researched evidence, proposed alternatives (other than an under-researched option of a drop zone) or gaining the support necessary to implement changes.

You also pronounce uninformed opinions about people and golf organisations - this is just angry young man “pub talk”.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but posting stuff like that “off the top of your head” is just letting off steam .

Doesn’t take much effort to find fault and complain on an internet forum – if it was as easy as that to fix things, we’d have no recession or Euro crisis and all the world’s problems would be solved long ago.

It’s certainly much easier than studying the rules or behaving realistically. If you’re not happy about a situation, start with yourself by taking a bit of time to understand the situation “as is” before drawing conclusions, making recommendations and passing judgements on others.

You seem to prefer to slag off people in general, the GUI and the R&A, which is responsible for administration of the Rules of Golf with the consent of 143 amateur and professional organisations and for over 30 million golfers (info per R&A site).

Get real!

FixdePitchmark

golfwallah wrote: »

First you say the rules are too complicated, now you say the system is a failure – without providing properly researched evidence, proposed alternatives (other than an under-researched option of a drop zone) or gaining the support necessary to implement changes.

You also pronounce uninformed opinions about people and golf organisations - this is just angry young man “pub talk”.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but posting stuff like that “off the top of your head” is just letting off steam .

Doesn’t take much effort to find fault and complain on an internet forum – if it was as easy as that to fix things, we’d have no recession or Euro crisis and all the world’s problems would be solved long ago.

It’s certainly much easier than studying the rules or behaving realistically. If you’re not happy about a situation, start with yourself by taking a bit of time to understand the situation “as is” before drawing conclusions, making recommendations and passing judgements on others.

You seem to prefer to slag off people in general, the GUI and the R&A, which is responsible for administration of the Rules of Golf with the consent of 143 amateur and professional organisations and for over 30 million golfers (info per R&A site).

Get real!

Well in every pro tournament I watch from the "pub" there is a ruling with pros.

I think making asumptions about people on an internet forum is not researched evidence. Fair enough if you want to let off a bit of steam.


If you want to put the R&A and GUI up as God orgainisations who make no errors , we can see the birth of the Euro Crisis there.


And the internet I'm afraid is for "off the top of your head", no rules here.

Anyway whatever keeps you happy, I know they are too complicated for me and the pros and the system is not working. Just being real.

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know they are too complicated for me

Ok.
What rule exactly is too complicated for you to understand? Maybe we can all chip in and help you out.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok.
What rule exactly is too complicated for you to understand? Maybe we can all chip in and help you out.

See this is the problem. People who play the game at a certain level make assumptions about others. The game of golf is changing very quickly, not just in Ireland. The R&A and GUI have not changed to reflect this. You have lads from "Pubs", and lads who "let off steam" and lads who don't join clubs and lads who only play tee times. The courses are being wrecked by these lads and the assumption is they should all know the rules and the etiquette of the R&A. It is load of ****. The GUI and Clubs need to change to deal with new golfers and welcome them in a more managed way. The idea these will all just become perfect golfers by reading the rules is a sort of Christain Brother attitude.


There seems to be a disconnect between organisational golf and new golfers. Some of the golf establishment do not want new golf. All large organisations have problems dealing with change.

Just pub talk. But what I have seen from my travels.

golfwallah

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

See this is the problem. People who play the game at a certain level make assumptions about others. The game of golf is changing very quickly, not just in Ireland. The R&A and GUI have not changed to reflect this. You have lads from "Pubs", and lads who "let off steam" and lads who don't join clubs and lads who only play tee times. The courses are being wrecked by these lads and the assumption is they should all know the rules and the etiquette of the R&A. It is load of ****. The GUI and Clubs need to change to deal with new golfers and welcome them in a more managed way. The idea these will all just become perfect golfers by reading the rules is a sort of Christain Brother attitude.


There seems to be a disconnect between organisational golf and new golfers. Some of the golf establishment do not want new golf. All large organisations have problems dealing with change.

Just pub talk. But what I have seen from my travels.

Not factually correct re GUI & Clubs - just Google "beginner golf programme" and you will get details of club initiatives. Not all clubs are pro-active in this area but a start has been made - and remember many clubs are run by volunteers.

I'm not an apologist for the GUI, but they too have been urging clubs to take steps to encourage new people into the game. One example is their Booklet “Promoting Golf Club Membership” (published in 2009 – copy attached).

The situation isn't perfect by any means, but change is happening and the recession is causing clubs and GUI to step up to the plate quicker than ever before. Nothing like declining cash flow to focus the mind!

Kid Charlemagne

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

See this is the problem. People who play the game at a certain level make assumptions about others. The game of golf is changing very quickly, not just in Ireland. The R&A and GUI have not changed to reflect this. You have lads from "Pubs", and lads who "let off steam" and lads who don't join clubs and lads who only play tee times. The courses are being wrecked by these lads and the assumption is they should all know the rules and the etiquette of the R&A. It is load of ****. The GUI and Clubs need to change to deal with new golfers and welcome them in a more managed way. The idea these will all just become perfect golfers by reading the rules is a sort of Christain Brother attitude.


There seems to be a disconnect between organisational golf and new golfers. Some of the golf establishment do not want new golf. All large organisations have problems dealing with change.

Just pub talk. But what I have seen from my travels.

Well of course there is a disconnect - one group are regularly playing in weekly comps etc so generally understand the rules fairly well - or at least would be in the presence of someone who has some sort of a clue. Usually these people will fix the pitchmark:pac: or divot automatically because they dont want to get obstructed by it the next time they play that course.

The other are probably playing without much external guidance, dont know the rules and may not take the same care and attention to the course. But they are paying a greenfee, not a kings ransom - so what can the club do? They cant very well pay to have a marshal trail every green-fee on the course! If courses were really being wrecked to the wholescale extent you suggest - then action would have been taken.

Lets not be rushing to get all sensationalist and try to suggest there is some terrible crisis that will destroy all the golf in the world! there is no crisis. yes some people arent great on the rules - its not the end of the world.

These suggestions like forcing people to take a "driver theory test" will only suck money out of the industry and put people off joining clubs. Lets be realistic, most clubs main priority is to survive the next few years in the hope that the economy picks up in the future, some lad gaining a yard off the hazard in the Turkey league stableford is not a priority.

Anyway it only takes one 2 stroke penalty for even the most complicated rule to be firmly etched on even the most obtuse golfers mind!!

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

See this is the problem. People who play the game at a certain level make assumptions about others. The game of golf is changing very quickly, not just in Ireland. The R&A and GUI have not changed to reflect this. You have lads from "Pubs", and lads who "let off steam" and lads who don't join clubs and lads who only play tee times. The courses are being wrecked by these lads and the assumption is they should all know the rules and the etiquette of the R&A. It is load of ****. The GUI and Clubs need to change to deal with new golfers and welcome them in a more managed way. The idea these will all just become perfect golfers by reading the rules is a sort of Christain Brother attitude.


There seems to be a disconnect between organisational golf and new golfers. Some of the golf establishment do not want new golf. All large organisations have problems dealing with change.

Just pub talk. But what I have seen from my travels.

Sorry but this just seems like a rant to me.
If people dont know the rules of the sport they play then that is their problem.
If I play soccer with my mates and handle the ball and no one says anything then its hardly FIFA's fault is it?

Webbs

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

See this is the problem. People who play the game at a certain level make assumptions about others. The game of golf is changing very quickly, not just in Ireland. The R&A and GUI have not changed to reflect this. You have lads from "Pubs", and lads who "let off steam" and lads who don't join clubs and lads who only play tee times. The courses are being wrecked by these lads and the assumption is they should all know the rules and the etiquette of the R&A. It is load of ****. The GUI and Clubs need to change to deal with new golfers and welcome them in a more managed way. The idea these will all just become perfect golfers by reading the rules is a sort of Christain Brother attitude.


There seems to be a disconnect between organisational golf and new golfers. Some of the golf establishment do not want new golf. All large organisations have problems dealing with change.

Just pub talk. But what I have seen from my travels.

If guys want to go round for fun or society and play golf with made up rules then no one on here is going to argue. What is unacceptable is not behaving with consideration for the other users of the course (so yes etiquette, repairing pitch marks, rake bunkers etc).
You wouldnt expect or tolerate guys who go into a snooker club and not give a hoot if they ripped the cloth, spilt drinks on the table and stayed on the table way beyond their allocated time etc.

G1032

Didn't vote becasue I'm somewhere in between the first two options.
I have a much better understanding of the rules than just a 'good enough understanding to get me around the course' but at the same time do not know them inside out and upside down.
I'd correctly answer most questions that I'm asked out on the course and and guys often ask me how to proceed in a particular situation.
There was a rules quiz posted here last year sometime from the R&A site and I got 19 of the 20 correct.
In my experience most (80%+) of those I've played with have a very very poor knowledge of even the most basic rules. It puts those who play by them at an immediate disadvantage...........!!

golfwallah

FDP, You should count your blessings - lots of choice in terms of golf courses and with most of them looking for business, prices have never been more competitive.

Plus you are a young man targeting to shoot less than 80! – when only a relatively small percentage ever break 100.

Played today with a chap who is suffering from a life changing condition that severely affects his movement and balance.

Didn’t hear any complaints from him about rules, the state of the course or anything else. He is just glad to be able to play and intends to continue to enjoy the game for as long as he can. And fair play to him for his determination not to let this illness bring him down.

Sure puts my minor complaints into perspective.

As per earlier posts, some clubs have taken initiatives on knowledge of the rules / etiquette - but this has to take its place with all the other priorities the majority of clubs have to deal with (mostly with scarce voluntary resources).

Why not just enjoy what you have?

C’mon FDP, you sound like a sensible chap. Instead of expecting other people to match your unrealistically high expectations, join a club you can afford, enjoy your golf and, if so inclined, test your powers of persuasion by trying to change things from the inside.

FixdePitchmark

golfwallah wrote: »

FDP, You should count your blessings - lots of choice in terms of golf courses and with most of them looking for business, prices have never been more competitive.

Plus you are a young man targeting to shoot less than 80! – when only a relatively small percentage ever break 100.

Played today with a chap who is suffering from a life changing condition that severely affects his movement and balance.

Didn’t hear any complaints from him about rules, the state of the course or anything else. He is just glad to be able to play and intends to continue to enjoy the game for as long as he can. And fair play to him for his determination not to let this illness bring him down.

Sure puts my minor complaints into perspective.

As per earlier posts, some clubs have taken initiatives on knowledge of the rules / etiquette - but this has to take its place with all the other priorities the majority of clubs have to deal with (mostly with scarce voluntary resources).

Why not just enjoy what you have?

C’mon FDP, you sound like a sensible chap. Instead of expecting other people to match your unrealistically high expectations, join a club you can afford, enjoy your golf and, if so inclined, test your powers of persuasion by trying to change things from the inside.

Who is to say I don't count my blessing.

It is a flaw of on here , people put people into a box. It is so far from the reality in most cases.

I went to join a club , was paying hello money and all, but found the clubs I went to a bit up their own hole. Life is too short to try fit into a box for somebody. After reading on here some of the stuff that goes on with handicaps and little men with power. I don't think it is for me. Time is on my side to go back to that in my late 40s.

Golf is my escape for the moment, I'll break the 80 my own way, head off to the sun, play a few games with the "Pub Talk Lads".

Knitting looks like a good new option. The lost generation.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but this just seems like a rant to me.
If people dont know the rules of the sport they play then that is their problem.
If I play soccer with my mates and handle the ball and no one says anything then its hardly FIFA's fault is it?

Comparing the rules of soccer and golf is funny. Yes you always see Messi calling over the ref asking him how to kick the ball. The offside rule is a tricky one (lol).

You see pros calling a reff for the most basic drop.

I'm just saying you could give a little book with diagrams to societies , or a video before a society starts, have them listed as seen the video by GUI , give a card/passport, Slow play video, posters from gui, a new rule or photo rule on the back of card each time they are printed, a rule per tee box per week, a ranger, club champions of the rules, you name it. (just off the top of my head).

No big deal, but courses are being damaged, and slow play is killing golf. I do my bit (repairing other people's damage). But can this not be sorted out by somebody ?

Anyway, I'm only a pub golfer, all the brains on here could come up with something a bit more imaginative. I just think the survey finding above is a bit pathetic.

golfwallah

FDP, Don’t buy your ideas on books, diagrams, videos, rangers, etc. – these are tough economic times and you’d need to demonstrate how any club could be guaranteed a return by investing members’ hard earned cash on this stuff.

As for “have them listed as seen the video by GUI , give a card/passport, Slow play video, posters from gui, a new rule or photo rule on the back of card each time they are printed, a rule per tee box per week” – really? You’ve got to be joking – right?

You’d have a hard job convincing anyone that these proposals are good for club business - as they say in Dragons’ Den “I’m out”.

If, like Groucho you “refuse to join any club that would have me as a member”, maybe you could eventually put your money where your mouth is by setting up your own club, implementing your ideas and prove everyone wrong.

Meanwhile, good luck with the knitting!

Knit one, purl one ..........

Webbs

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Comparing the rules of soccer and golf is funny. Yes you always see Messi calling over the ref asking him how to kick the ball. The offside rule is a tricky one (lol).

You see pros calling a reff for the most basic drop.

No big deal, but courses are being damaged, and slow play is killing golf. I do my bit (repairing other people's damage). But can this not be sorted out by somebody ?
.

Pros get refs over as a single infraction as any mistake can be pulled up long after the event even when his match is ove and rcan result in the player being disqualified and affect their livelihood. And a golf 'ref' doesnt tell a player how to hit a ball either.

As for getting people in videos etc repairing greens and so on this involves more staff more money etc which isnt around anymore.

From your posts you prefer to get to your under 80 in a non competitive relaxed environment and good luck to you. Most on here prefer the pressure of competition as well, and as such want to know that they are playing on a level field

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'm just saying you could give a little book with diagrams to societies , or a video before a society starts, have them listed as seen the video by GUI , give a card/passport, Slow play video, posters from gui, a new rule or photo rule on the back of card each time they are printed, a rule per tee box per week, a ranger, club champions of the rules, you name it. (just off the top of my head).

Why do you care that a society you are not part of doesnt know the rules? If it is a society you are part of then as a society member its up to you to ensure you are all playing to the same rules. If they are golfers and they want to play golf they learn the rules, same as everybody else playing every other sport. If they dont want to play by the rules then they are not playing golf and as long as its not impacting me, why do I care?

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No big deal, but courses are being damaged, and slow play is killing golf. I do my bit (repairing other people's damage). But can this not be sorted out by somebody ?

And these things have something to do with the rules of golf how?

Again this just seems like you taking the opportunity to rant about things golf related.

Myksyk

I think the rules of golf as they have evolved over decades are a triumph. This is a game played (for amateurs without referees) on a pitch spanning many kilometres with every imaginable scenario possible to encounter and with every pitch different than every other pitch. They are and must be comprehensive. Some are complicated but none I believe are outside the understanding of any player. Learn the basics. Learn the more esoteric rules when you encounter the scenario they apply to.

Holy Diver

Just picked up Golf Rules Illustrated. Looks pretty decent