Stay classy Gardai - Mod Note in OP

hondasam

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Longer then 90 seconds. There were 4 officers on the scene and the one in shot looks clearly surprised with the speed force was used. A professional lost his cool. That's not good enough.

They are human not robots, do you not think the driver could have opened the door?
I agree professionals should be able to keep cool.

hondasam

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Not known the the Garda that smashed the window. He can be clearly heard arresting the driver and telling him he will be held until his identity can be found out.

Procedure if he had no Id on him. He would have to produce some ID.

Kev_2012

Why didn't he open the door and not be such a knob about it? If the window is broken then open the door. Driver was totally in the wrong IMO.

bruschi

Driver set this up and knew what he was doing. He is part of Pobal Chill Chomáin, and is a protestor to the shell to sea action. http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1134672 here on frontline at around 41 mins. Highly likely he is known to the guards in that case.

If I drive up to a checkpoint, and a guard asks for a license, I say yep, show it, and then be off again within 10 seconds. I dont go up roaring, 'whats the story here?' And if they ask me what I'm doing, I'll say going to work or going home or whatever it is. He was provoking them going on about 'I'm going about my business, whats teh story here?'. He was acting like a dickhead, and he got treated like a dickhead.

The fact he filmed it shows he was only out to set up the situation. Sets up a situation and provokes the guards, and then cries like a bitch when they react. Lets taunt a dog and poke it with a stick, and then blame the dog and cry to mammy when it bites.

The guard coming in shouldnt have broke the window, but the situation would never have got to that if he wasnt looking for provocation. He waited for over a minute and until he was being threatened to say the window was broken. Why not say it at the start?

A case of 2 dickheads meeting, with one dickhead being worse than another.

_feedback_

monkeybutter wrote: »

please oh please, let you never make it onto a jury

What do you mean by that?

Swampy

Fair play to the Gardai. The driver deserved it.

Micky Dolenz

hondasam wrote: »

They are human not robots, do you not think the driver could have opened the door?
I agree professionals should be able to keep cool.

You could use the robot excuse for anything. He could have opened the door. Force was used to quickly in this instance IMO. The driver could have been a bit slow. The Gardai didn't really care to find out.

Seachmall

elviscostello wrote: »

I just can't get my head around how or why anyone would fail to give a couple of minutes, or less to Gardai for a reasonable request. Whether or not it is strictly written in the (piece of shít Irish) law or not.

For some people it's out of frustration. Some genuinely feel it's none of Gardai's business. Some are just acting the bollocks.

Regardless they are entitled to in some situations not to cooperate, whether you disagree with them or not they do have that right. And the Gardai should respect that right (as the law allows it).

In this case it's too unclear to know what's going on, but as a general rule the above holds true.

hondasam

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You could use the robot excuse for anything. He could have opened the door. Force was used to quickly in this instance IMO. The driver could have been a bit slow. The Gardai didn't really care to find out.

I agree breaking the window was OTT but like I said all ready if it happened any other place it would not be talked about.
You must know the protesters do this for the publicity which is why I'm always surprised at the guards for reacting so badly knowing it's recorded.
The driver could have been lots of things, slow ain't one of them. I think they are both as much wrong in their own way.

_feedback_

Seachmall wrote: »

For some people it's out of frustration. Some genuinely feel it's none of Gardai's business. Some are just acting the bollocks.

Regardless they are entitled to in some situations not to cooperate, whether you disagree with them or not they do have that right. And the Gardai should respect that right (as the law allows it).

In this case it's too unclear to know what's going on, but as a general rule the above holds true.

I see what you mean. It also means that they are giving the Gardai reason to be suspicious of what they may be hiding though.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Not known the the Garda that smashed the window. He can be clearly heard arresting the driver and telling him he will be held until his identity can be found out.

I'd imagine he uses that line over and over in that part of the world, and with what they are putting up with. As Seachmall pointed out, the chap needed something in the law to have reason to detain him and find out why he wasn't co-operating.

monkeybutter

hondasam wrote: »

They are human not robots, do you not think the driver could have opened the door?
I agree professionals should be able to keep cool.

Are you saying that you think all gardaí with robots? Are you saying that this wouldn't have happened if we had robots policing the means streets?

This may be the case.

I agree with you that the professionals were bang out of order (aawda) in the above video.

We should have learnt our lesson after the mess that was robocop 3 though.

You have 5 seconds to comply, 5,4,3,2,1.... broken window

lastlaugh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For all the Gardai knew, the driver may have been a bit slow in the head department. After 90 seconds, the Gardas action seem rash.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You could use the robot excuse for anything. He could have opened the door. Force was used to quickly in this instance IMO. The driver could have been a bit slow. The Gardai didn't really care to find out.

If he was that slow in the head he shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

"Oh look there's a red light, whad am I supposed to do again "

tayto lover

Seachmall wrote: »

If you go to 1:29 in the OP's video you hear tapping and "Hold on a second. Hold on! Calm Down" or something to that effect as if the Garda is trying to break the window.

Maybe it was the driver tapping the window and the Garda trying to calm him down

Jess16

Where To wrote: »

If this was the US driver wouldn't be too healthy now.Gardai put up with far too much sh** in this country

Because the US is such a shining example of how to live? The US is one of the most psychologically messed up countries in the world. Our Gardaí do comparatively put up with more rubbish but I'd rather deal with them than have my head blown off by some trigger-happy American on an ego mission

membersonly

Wow, only seeing this now. What an utter gob****e driving that car, you can tell by his tone even, purely trying to provoke a reaction. You can almost here delight in his voice when the window is smashed.

What topped it off for me is that he wouldn't even pull in to the side of the road to let the oncoming road user go about their business. Pure ignorance.

There could have been a serious crime after taking place in the area for all he knew.

God forbid but if these Gardaí were investigating a child abduction or even worse, and this gob****e decided to have his little hissy fit, wasting their time, alot of people would have a very different opinion on this.

hondasam

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe it was the driver tapping the window and the Garda trying to calm him down

Possible I suppose, maybe he was trying to open the door and the guard was standing in the way. He is probably reading this thread getting ideas for his case.

Micky Dolenz

lastlaugh wrote: »

If he was that slow in the head he shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

"Oh look there's a red light, whad am I supposed to do again "

You may need to educate yourself about people who have learning disabilities or who may have social interaction problems.

Seachmall

elviscostello wrote: »

I see what you mean. It also means that they are giving the Gardai reason to be suspicious of what they may be hiding though.

But not Reasonable Supsicion.

Any instance where you must cooperate is defined by law. Any other situation you are assumed a right to refuse to cooperate. Arguing that refusal is grounds for Reasonable Suspicion undermines that inherent right.

membersonly wrote:

What topped it off for me is that he wouldn't even pull in to the side of the road to let the oncoming road user go about their business. Pure ignorance.

If you watch it again he clearly made an attempt to pull in before the third Garda approached the driver's window.

Peetrik

Complete over reaction by the Gardi IMO.

Part of their job is dealing with the public, yes the driver did seem to be looking for a reaction but at the end of the day if you worked in a shop or an office dealing with complaints or anywhere else as a civilised human being then this type of behaviour would get you fired on the spot.

It only occurs because they arn't called up on it.

Just my 2c

lastlaugh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You may need to educate yourself about people who have learning disabilities or who may have social interaction problems.

You may need to stop trying to dream up excuses for a trouble making twat.

Social interaction problems, that's a good one, do people with 'learning disabilities' usually put up hidden cameras on their dashboards?

What do you think?

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

What do you think?

I think you missed Micky's point.

_feedback_

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You may need to educate yourself about people who have learning disabilities or who may have social interaction problems.

You are giving the clown in the video too much credit Micky.

Do a google on John Monaghan rossport. The guy has been at this for years.

These guards know him well and are probably sick to the teeth with him.

Having said all that.. The fact that they do know him, and know that he was harmless but fooking annoying, probably would say that they shouldn't have broken his window.

Just sayin'.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

I think you missed Micky's point.

Do you think this guy is a bit 'slow' or what, because I certainly don't.

hondasam

lastlaugh wrote: »

You may need to stop trying to dream up excuses for a trouble making twat.

Social interaction problems, that's a good one, do people with 'learning disabilities' usually put up hidden cameras on their dashboards?

What do you think?

Micky is trying to look at it from a different angle and he could be right about this man, we don't know.
I still think the driver and the guard was wrong, who is more wrong?

Piper101

humberklog wrote: »

That I honestly don't know. I'm reading off my brief marked Canky Pedant charter 1982:).

Tellsya what does matter...ability to investigate a situation.

Of course gardai dont have to be wearing a hat, sure what about plain clothes gardai and citizens arrests??

If this had happened in another country there wouldnt even be a debate, they should've smashed the window earlier, you can clearly see a guard telling him to pull into the side which he refused to do, he could've had anything in that car including a weapon...

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

Do you think this guy is a bit 'slow' or what, because I certainly don't.

I don't and from reading Micky's posts I don't think he does either.

Micky seems to be suggesting the Garda reacted without looking at the situation as a whole.

This guy in the car probably wasn't disabled, however (presumably) the Garda didn't know that. Had the driver had a condition everyone here would be singing a completely different tune.

Zab

elviscostello wrote: »

Do a google on John Monaghan rossport. The guy has been at this for years. The first result on google comes up with the quote "the batons are raised every week".

Wow. The quote is actually "it's not every day that the batons come out, but protests are every week day". You should look for a job with The Sun.

Micky Dolenz

My point is the driver could have been. It was up to the Gardai to establish that before force was used. They did not establish that IMO.

lastlaugh

hondasam wrote: »

Micky is trying to look at it from a different angle and he could be right about this man, we don't know.
I still think the driver and the guard was wrong, who is more wrong?

If the guy is genuinely slow well then fair enough, but if he's that slow, should he even be driving?

To me, and I would imagine to a lot of other people, the bloke went out to deliberately get a negative response from the Guards by playing 'innocently' stupid, oh, and he just happened to be recording it as he was 'going along with his business' for good measure.

To even suggest that he is simple minded strikes me as very naive.

Harpy

They should of pepper sprayed the f****r..
He was deliberately been awkward he only told them the window was broken when they started to try and force it open..

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

If the guy is genuinely slow well then fair enough, but if he's that slow, should he even be driving?

To me, and I would imagine to a lot of other people, the bloke went out to deliberately get a negative response from the Guards by playing 'innocently' stupid, oh, and he just happened to be recording it as he was 'going along with his business' for good measure.

To even suggest that he is simple minded strikes me as very naive.

And hindsight is a great thing however I still think you're missing the point.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

Had the driver had a condition everyone here would be singing a completely different tune.

What kind of condition are you suggesting?

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

What kind of condition are you suggesting?

I know very little about medical or psychological conditions so I'm not suggesting any.

However the specifics aren't important to the point.

hondasam

lastlaugh wrote: »

If the guy is genuinely slow well then fair enough, but if he's that slow, should he even be driving?

To me, and I would imagine to a lot of other people, the bloke went out to deliberately get a negative response from the Guards by playing 'innocently' stupid, oh, and he just happened to be recording it as he was 'going along with his business' for good measure.

To even suggest that he is simple minded strikes me as very naive.

Yes he deliberately provoked them to get the reaction but as pointed out they are the professionals and should act accordingly.

The point that micky is making (I think) is that they would have done the same thing regardless, they should have taken more time to find out the situation before using force.
Apologies if this is wrong.

milehip1

elviscostello wrote: »

He could have driven that road ten times that week and caused an obstruction to the Gardai every time.. who knows.

elviscostello wrote: »

It is quite clear that the guy was there to get a reaction, and was most likely known to the Gardai.

Two things here If you've been stopped 10 times at the same c/p in a week you'd be well pissed off and you think the gaurds might recgonise you after a while and wave you through.

bruschi wrote: »

Driver set this up and knew what he was doing. He is part of Pobal Chill Chomáin, and is a protestor to the shell to sea action. http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1134672 here on frontline at around 41 mins. Highly likely he is known to the guards in that case.

Highly unlikely, as he was threatened with being brought to Belmullet and held untill his identity was verified.


would love to see an unedited version, but for now the cops don't look to good.surely if you're going to break someone's car window you should give them ample warning to comply first

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

And hindsight is a great thing however I still think you're missing the point.

If the point you think I'm missing is that the bloke in the car maybe perhaps could have had some kind of condition that caused him to behave in a what may be percieved as a slightly retarded person so I should not be so judgemental kind of thing, well then I don't think I missed it.

lastlaugh

Well Micky, you certainly have a few supporters backing you up on your point...

HeidiHeidi

milehip1 wrote: »

Two things here If you've been stopped 10 times at the same c/p in a week you'd be well pissed off and you think the gaurds might recgonise you after a while and wave you through.



Highly unlikely, as he was threatened with being brought to Belmullet and held untill his identity was verified.


would love to see an unedited version, but for now the cops don't look to good.surely if you're going to break someone's car window you should give them ample warning to comply first

Surely the crucial bit here is that this is an edited video made by the driver and posted by him for his own purposes - of course it's going to show his side of the story, and the worst of the Gardai? (Although he still manages to come out of it looking like the muppet he's been called so many times in this thread!)

billybudd

If anyone thinks that was a proffesional way to deal with someone then that really is a sad state of affairs, Guardians of the peace first and foremost.

membersonly

Seachmall wrote: »

If you watch it again he clearly made an attempt to pull in before the third Garda approached the driver's window.

I'd say you need to watch it again to be fair. The female Gardaí very politely asked him to pull in twice, to which he replied "No" and "I'm eh, going about my business".

He later claims not to have been able to hear the Gardaí at all. What an idiot.

The other driver ends up turing around because our hero wants to be a youtube star.

Zab

lastlaugh wrote: »

If the point you think I'm missing is that the bloke in the car maybe perhaps could have had some kind of condition that caused him to behave in a what may be percieved as a slightly retarded person so I should not be so judgemental kind of thing, well then I don't think I missed it.

The only root point here is that 90 seconds between stopping a car at a checkpoint and smashing the window is an unacceptably short amount of time given that we have no indication that the driver did anything aggressive. This is a totally separate issue to the driver turning out to be a douche.

The King of Moo

Everyone in the video comes across as an idiot.

The driver was trolling the guards, being as uncooperative as possible and trying to provoke a reaction.

The guards completely over-reacted.

Both sides really let themselves down. Basically, they acted exactly the way the other side wanted them to.

From the driver's point of view, he knows what the situation is like in the area and that the guards might recognise him. So coming up to a Garda checkpoint, he would probably expect that he might get some hassle from the guards trying to get a rise out of him and use that as an excuse to treat the protesters badly.
So he should have been as calm and co-operative as possible (unless the Guards started being unreasonable without provocation) so as not to react the way the guards wanted him to (not that they definitely did want that: I'm just imaging his perspective).
He could've gone on his merry way without giving the guards an excuse to get heavy-handed, and without having given them the satisfaction of provoking him.

The guards: even if they didn't recognise him, it should have been very clear to them very quickly that he was trying to provoke them, so they shouldn't have risen to the bait. As soon as the driver said that the window wouldn't open, they should have told him that he could open his door (though maybe they did and we didn't hear it). But by smashing in the window they played right into the driver's hands. Very unprofessional, particularly given the situation in the area, where they should be aware that people would try to provoke them to make them look bad.

Both parties let down their side badly, probably just making an already difficult situation even worse.

As to the issue of obeying the guards, well clearly we shouldn't obey them blindly. But if the request or instruction seems reasonable, I don't see why someone shouldn't go along with it.
If I were driving and was asked to pull over at a checkpoint and open my window and produce my driver's licence, I'd comply.
But if I was asked to go to the station without a reason, I'd refuse until they told me why.

There is one thing I'd like cleared up though...

Was the motor broken? The driver doesn't really make that clear!

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

If the point you think I'm missing is that the bloke in the car maybe perhaps could have had some kind of condition that caused him to behave in a what may be percieved as a slightly retarded person so I should not be so judgemental kind of thing, well then I don't think I missed it.

No. Nobody is suggesting the driver was slow.

The point is the Garda did not, or could not, know that the driver wasn't slow.

The Garda did not allow for enough time to analyze the situation to ensure the driver was not mentally incapable of fulfilling his requests in such short a time.

In a hypothetical scenario where the driver is slow the Garda would have clearly overreacted.

It's about situational awareness and understanding all possibilities before taking drastic action.

membersonly wrote:

I'd say you need to watch it again to be fair. The female Gardaí very politely asked him to pull in twice, to which he replied "No" and "I'm eh, going about my business".

1:08.

The Garda moves out of his way and gestures for him to drive.
He slowly advances forward as per her request.
The third Garda walks in front of his car.
He halts.

bruschi

milehip1 wrote: »

Two things here If you've been stopped 10 times at the same c/p in a week you'd be well pissed off and you think the gaurds might recgonise you after a while and wave you through.



Highly unlikely, as he was threatened with being brought to Belmullet and held untill his identity was verified.


would love to see an unedited version, but for now the cops don't look to good.surely if you're going to break someone's car window you should give them ample warning to comply first

your first point contradicts your second point. You say the guards should recognise him and wave him through and then say its highly unlikely he is known.

and 2 minutes at a check point is more than enough time to show your driving license and not be roaring 'whats the story here, I'm going about my business'. Its not as if he had to give detailed statements about what he was doing. all he had to do was show his licence and drive on and keep going about his business.

as I already said, the guard shouldnt have broke his window, but yer man shouldnt have acted like a complete arsehole.

Daithi 1

baltimore sun wrote: »

Why can we not bash Gardai ? Can we bash clampers or tax men ?

Why do Gardai get special treatment ?

KeithAFC

Hopefully they keep up the good work. The Gardai do a good job in the Irish Republic from what I have heard.

hondasam

lastlaugh wrote: »

Well Micky, you certainly have a few supporters backing you up on your point...

I'm not backing him up, I'm just looking at it from a different point of view.
When someone puts another possibility into the mix you have to think about it.

milehip1

Drivers statment c&p'd from the thred in the motoring forum

"This occurred at lunchtime on Ash Wednesday, 22nd February, 2012, on a small local road, L1202 in Glengad, Co Mayo. This is close to Shell’s haulage route and about 70 metres from Shell’s compound in Glengad. This is a few kilometres from Shell’s refinery site at Bellanaboy.
“You can see that two female Gardaí approached the car. When the third Garda, a man, approached the window, he had his baton drawn before he knocked on the window. After he smashed the window, I got out of the car. The Garda told me I was under arrest. I was surrounded by Gardaí with batons drawn.
” ‘Are you refusing to show your licence?’,” the male Garda said. I thought I was in for a beating.
“When I took out my driver’s licence and he looked at it, the atmosphere changed instantly. They all backed away and suddenly I wasn’t under arrest any more. The only conclusion I can draw is that they assumed I was an outside supporter, from the Rossport Solidarity Camp. I assume that when they saw my name and a Rossport address address, that is what changed their approach.
“So, I was left a bleeding hand from the broken window and with a car with a broken window on the side of the road. I phoned Belmullet Garda station to complain and to ask for assistance. They refused to send anyone.
“Following that refusal, I phoned the Garda Ombudsman’s office in Dublin. They said that as there was no complaint to investigate, they would not investigate until a formal complaint was made. They told me I could make a written complaint or visit their office (which is in Dublin).
“So I felt the best thing to do was to release this footage, so that people can see what life is like on the roads here close to Shell’s operations. This kind of thing is happening to varying degrees every day here. People need to that this is happening, that it could happen to them and that they will receive no protection"

The King of Moo

milehip1 wrote: »

Drivers statment c&p'd from the thred in the motoring forum

"This occurred at lunchtime on Ash Wednesday, 22nd February, 2012, on a small local road, L1202 in Glengad, Co Mayo. This is close to Shell’s haulage route and about 70 metres from Shell’s compound in Glengad. This is a few kilometres from Shell’s refinery site at Bellanaboy.
“You can see that two female Gardaí approached the car. When the third Garda, a man, approached the window, he had his baton drawn before he knocked on the window. After he smashed the window, I got out of the car. The Garda told me I was under arrest. I was surrounded by Gardaí with batons drawn.
” ‘Are you refusing to show your licence?’,” the male Garda said. I thought I was in for a beating.
“When I took out my driver’s licence and he looked at it, the atmosphere changed instantly. They all backed away and suddenly I wasn’t under arrest any more. The only conclusion I can draw is that they assumed I was an outside supporter, from the Rossport Solidarity Camp. I assume that when they saw my name and a Rossport address address, that is what changed their approach.
“So, I was left a bleeding hand from the broken window and with a car with a broken window on the side of the road. I phoned Belmullet Garda station to complain and to ask for assistance. They refused to send anyone.
“Following that refusal, I phoned the Garda Ombudsman’s office in Dublin. They said that as there was no complaint to investigate, they would not investigate until a formal complaint was made. They told me I could make a written complaint or visit their office (which is in Dublin).
“So I felt the best thing to do was to release this footage, so that people can see what life is like on the roads here close to Shell’s operations. This kind of thing is happening to varying degrees every day here. People need to that this is happening, that it could happen to them and that they will receive no protection"

So perhaps the guards just wanted to see his licence then?

If he'd just opened his door at the beginning and shown it, he mightn't have had any trouble at all.

milehip1

bruschi wrote: »

your first point contradicts your second point. You say the guards should recognise him and wave him through and then say its highly unlikely he is known.

and 2 minutes at a check point is more than enough time to show your driving license and not be roaring 'whats the story here, I'm going about my business'. Its not as if he had to give detailed statements about what he was doing. all he had to do was show his licence and drive on and keep going about his business.

as I already said, the guard shouldnt have broke his window, but yer man shouldnt have acted like a complete arsehole.

I said "If":rolleyes: