Stay classy Gardai - Mod Note in OP

I think it is interesting that the man had the camera operating in the first place. Is it reflective on how abusive the Gardai are in that area?

_feedback_

Cameras on the dash are becoming very common these days (helpful if you are involved in an accident).

However, this guy set out to get a reaction, so most likely had the cam for that reason.

hondasam

Edz87 wrote: »

I think it is interesting that the man had the camera operating in the first place. Is it reflective on how abusive the Gardai are in that area?

No more to do with the protesters and their cause, the gardai get some abuse there.

Turner

Not commenting on the actions of the Garda but once a member make his mind up to effect an arrest he can use force to effect it.

Like the old story that if you are stopped for drink driving just lock your doors and wait for the Gardai to get bored.

If you tried the above I could see similar happening as in the video above.

Once a Garda makes up his mind he is going to arrest you, its going to happen regardless.

steddyeddy

Stereomaniac wrote: »

That'd be cool, if he pulled him through the window.

Im finding it hard to see the difference between these actions and a thug's actions.

billyhead

The Guards were right to smash his window in. If the driver did not act like suck a dickhead and copperated fully then obviously they would not have reacted that way. No respect was shown so he deserved it

Hank Scorpio

Numpty, should have opened his door or the other window

steddyeddy

billyhead wrote: »

The Guards were right to smash his window in. If the driver did not act like suck a dickhead and copperated fully then obviously they would not have reacted that way. No respect was shown so he deserved it

What jobs are people allowed to act like thugs in when people fail to show them respect is it just the police?

Doc Ruby

WallysWorld wrote: »

It doesn't matter that the guy was looking to provoke a reaction, going on the video evidence alone even if he was he didn't do a whole lot of provoking.

If the guards are getting involved, a hiding isn't far off, that's just the nature of the business. They are authorised by the state to use force, so they do. Maybe there's a better way to run it, but then again I don't deal with scumbags, wife beaters, drug dealers, thieves, rapists and murderers on a daily basis.

Dyr

billyhead wrote: »

The Guards were right to smash his window in. If the driver did not act like suck a dickhead and copperated fully then obviously they would not have reacted that way. No respect was shown so he deserved it

So essentially the coppers are supposed to be treated like an overgrown 5 year old?

Seachmall

billyhead wrote: »

The Guards were right to smash his window in. If the driver did not act like suck a dickhead and copperated fully then obviously they would not have reacted that way. No respect was shown so he deserved it

If he broke the law they're allowed to use force to make an arrest.

Despite the fact there's no clear evidence in the OP's video that he broke the law people are still fine with the use of force.

Do people here actually care about the law or de ye just want to see people ye don't like get their comeuppance?

billyhead

steddyeddy wrote: »

What jobs are people allowed to act like thugs in when people fail to show them respect is it just the police?

They weren't acting like thugs. They were just trying to do their job and the driver was acting the prick and not complying. It was hardly police brutality. It was claearly a set up by the driver. I'd say his sole aim was to get a strong garda reaction in order to go whinging to the Ombudsman. The police in the states and UK probaly react this way all the time and nothing is said.

Dave!

With every video these crusties produce I move further onto the Gardaí's side.

What a fúcking dipshít.

Doc Ruby

Seachmall wrote: »

If he broke the law they're allowed to use force to make an arrest.

Guards aren't lawyers or judges. If they suspect criminal activity they are authorised to use force in the pursuance of their duties. Not complying with the lawful directives of a guard, like pulling over, is also an offence.

Now you, as a citizen, have the power to take away that authorisation via your vote. Just be ready for the ongoing flood of AH threads about how the law is too soft on scumbags.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

Despite the fact there's no clear evidence in the OP's video that he broke the law people are still fine with the use of force.

He failed to comply with the direction given, did you miss this part?

Micky Dolenz

Turner wrote: »

Not commenting on the actions of the Garda but once a member make his mind up to effect an arrest he can use force to effect it.

Like the old story that if you are stopped for drink driving just lock your doors and wait for the Gardai to get bored.

If you tried the above I could see similar happening as in the video above.

Once a Garda makes up his mind he is going to arrest you, its going to happen regardless.

After less then 90 seconds though?

Seachmall

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Guards aren't lawyers or judges. If they suspect criminal activity they are authorised to use force in the pursuance of their duties. Not complying with the lawful directives of a guard, like pulling over, is also an offence.

He did go to pull over, the car is moving when the third Garda walks on front of him. He didn't break the law there.

The only law I can see he possibly broke was not presenting his Driver's License but the only mention of Driver's License in the video is just before the Garda begins breaking the window.

hondasam wrote:

He failed to comply with the direction given, did you miss this part?

Yes, which direction did he fail to comply with?

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

Yes, which direction did he fail to comply with?

we did not hear all that was said, did we?
He was asked for his d/lic, he failed to provide it, he also refused to move into the side of the road.

AudreyHepburn

All the driver had to do was what he was asked to do. He was looking for trouble if you ask me and he got it.

Is it really such a hassel to do what you are asked by the Gardai when they ask you?

steddyeddy

Bambi wrote: »

So essentially the coppers are supposed to be treated like an overgrown 5 year old?

Thats the impression im getting again and again. Some of the words used here portrays a very childlike mentality towards the role of the gardai "If you start acting smart they'll beat you", "I would have thrown him out of the window if he was cheeky". You get the police force you think you deserve and I really think Ireland deserve a better force than ones who "batter people for being smart".

MagicSean

Edz87 wrote: »

I think it is interesting that the man had the camera operating in the first place. Is it reflective on how abusive the Gardai are in that area?

I have one on my car. It's in case of an accident.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im finding it hard to see the difference between these actions and a thug's actions.

A Garda is legally allowed to use force. a thug isn't.

steddyeddy wrote: »

What jobs are people allowed to act like thugs in when people fail to obey the law is it just the police?

FYP

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

He did go to pull over, the car is moving when the third Garda walks on front of him. He didn't break the law there.

The only law I can see he possibly broke was not presenting his Driver's License but the only mention of Driver's License in the video is just before the Garda begins breaking the window.

Yes, which direction did he fail to comply with?

Look at it from 50seconds.
He was initially asked to "pull over to the side" by the ban Guard to which he replies "I'm goin about my business", he may as well told of her to F*ck off.
Then he gives a few little coughs to make it seem all innocent for the recording.

This is becoming like the RAPE TAPE thread.

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

we did not hear all that was said, did we?
He was asked for his d/lic, he failed to provide it, he also refused to move into the side of the road.

He made an attempt to move to the side of the road, watch the van from 1:08 as a frame of reference and the Garda's response when the third Garda walks on front of the car. The car was clearly moving in the direction that Garda was motioning.

He clearly, absolutely, 100% went to pull over. Maybe not as fast as some would like but he never refused to pull over and obliged when motioned.


The only time we hear a reference to License is a second before the Garda begins hitting his window with his baton after which the other Gardaí go to the window. I think the reaction of the Gardaí as well as the driver reasonably suggest the Garda had lost his cool. I think given the circumstances his not producing the license within 35 seconds after it was requested is acceptable.



Of course we don't know what's being said all the time, maybe they immediately requested the license, but what the video shows us is that while the guy is a dickhead the Garda is in the wrong.

steddyeddy

MagicSean wrote: »

I have one on my car. It's in case of an accident.



A Garda is legally allowed to use force. a thug isn't.



FYP

A gaurd is legally allowed to act like a thug is what you seem to be saying.

steddyeddy

billyhead wrote: »

They weren't acting like thugs. They were just trying to do their job and the driver was acting the prick and not complying. It was hardly police brutality. It was claearly a set up by the driver. I'd say his sole aim was to get a strong garda reaction in order to go whinging to the Ombudsman. The police in the states and UK probaly react this way all the time and nothing is said.

You see I agree with you the driver was looking for a set up and the driver is looking for conflict he got it. The man who smashed the windscreen acted very unprofessional.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

.

Of course we don't know what's being said all the time but what the video shows us is that while the guy is a dickhead the Garda is in the wrong.

I'm getting tired watching it now
when the video started all we could hear was him shouting at the gardai, are we to assume he had not asked him anything at this stage?
If this is true then why was he so aggressive from the moment he stopped his car?
I think the driver was wrong initially,the guard should not have smashed the window without trying something else first, going round to the other side of the car.

steddyeddy

hondasam wrote: »

I'm getting tired watching it now
when the video started all we could hear was him shouting at the gardai, are we to assume he had not asked him anything at this stage?
If this is true then why was he so aggressive from the moment he stopped his car?
I think the driver was wrong initially,the guard should not have smashed the window without trying something else first, going round to the other side of the car.

Were in complete agreement.

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

Iwhen the video started all we could hear was him shouting at the gardai, are we to assume he had not asked him anything at this stage?

It was only a 30 odd second conversation where they could barely hear each other. I'd imagine most of the conversation was regarding him winding down his window so they could talk (refusing to wind down your window isn't a crime from what I can tell, it might be but I can't find it anywhere).

If this is true then why was he so aggressive from the moment he stopped his car?

Cause he's a dickhead :pac:

Although he is also shouting through the closed window. Also because he's a dickhead.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

He made an attempt to move to the side of the road, watch the van from 1:08 as a frame of reference and the Garda's response when the third Garda walks on front of the car. The car was clearly moving in the direction that Garda was motioning.

He clearly, absolutely, 100% went to pull over. Maybe not as fast as some would like but he never refused to pull over and obliged when motioned..

If you call that an attempt to pull over well then that's where we can't agree.
The idiot moved about 3 inches only after ignoring the ban Guard and the hand signals he was given, and he only moved when the third Guard walked in front of the car towards his door.
And even then he didn't open the door but says "I'm goin about my business, what's goin on here?"

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

It was only a 30 odd second conversation where they could barely hear each other. I'd imagine most of the conversation was regarding him wind down his window (which refusing to do isn't a crime, or at least I can't find it anywhere).
Cause he's a dickhead :pac:

Although he is also shouting through the closed window. Also because he's a dickhead.

You just will not give in will you, closed window, not a padded cell, If we could hear the gardai on the video, could he not hear them as well?
He was/is a dick which I think we all agree, garda was a bit of a dick as well tbh but the atmosphere there is terrible and it's getting worse not better.

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

If you call that an attempt to pull over well then that's where we can't agree.
The idiot moved about 3 inches only after ignoring the ban Guard and the hand signals he was given, and he only moved when the third Guard walked in front of the car towards his door.
And even then he didn't open the door but says "I'm goin about my business, what's goin on here?"

From when the second Garda moved out of his way it took him less than 9 seconds to move. Hardly unreasonable. He began to move at 1:08. The Garda walked on front of the car at 1:09. How far would you expect him to get in under a second?

hondasam wrote:

You just will not give in will you, closed window, not a padded cell, If we could hear the gardai on the video, could he not hear them as well?

Perhaps, but clearly the Gardaí weren't willing to converse through a closed window so I think it's reasonable to assume they asked him to open it before requesting his license, insurance, etc.

Janedoe10

Moral of the story boys and girls . Know where your licence is and don't give guff to the powers be .. Or u get peppered ... If this was a planned trap then the guards fell right into it ...

Potential-Monke

First off, the guy drive did set this up for a reaction, and he got it.

Right, the checkpoints there are set up for a reason, the protesters who are breaking the law (but we won't get into that conversation). The checkpoints are to make sure that there are no Shell to Sea protesters organising mass protests and may be bringing weapons, etc. Anyway, the checkpoints are certified by a Inspector/Super/Chief on a weekly basis, and that gives the Gardai the power to stop, request and search.

When the driver was initially stopped, we cannot hear what the female Garda was saying to him, so her first request could have been "Can i see your driving licence please", and he refused to co-operate. The female Garda could have said on her radio or in person to the other Guards there that he was refusing to co-operate. When they signal him to move it, he doesn't immediately and so the 3rd Garda (without the high-vis) decides (before yer man moved an inch) that this driver was being un co-operative and decided to deal with it where the car currently was. For all the Garda knew he could have had weapons in the back.

The driver can be heard saying "no" to being asked to open the window, and no to producing his licence initially. This leads the Garda to believe there is a reason he does not want to open the window/car and decides that the only course of action is to smash the window which he is legally entitled to do (how else can you get to the driver?). Also, one of the female Gardai did try the passenger door.

The male Garda may have let his emotions take over a small bit, but it does in those situations, adrenaline kicks in and does sometime cloud your judgement (same as players who fight at a match). Yes, he's supposed to be a professional but we are all human afterall.

Anyway, this won't be going any further. Once he produced his id he was let on his way. End of. Everything the Garda done was covered by law. Nothing illegal in what happened on the Garda side.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

From when the second Garda moved out of his way it took him less than 9 seconds to move. Hardly unreasonable. He began to move at 1:08. The Garda walked on front of the car at 1:09. How far would you expect him to get in under a second?

I would expect him to pull in when he was asked and not block the road for others instead of acting the bollix.

If he had just pulled in to the left when he was asked and this would not have happened.

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

I would expect him to pull in when he was asked and not block the road for others instead of acting the bollix.

If he had just pulled in to the left when he was asked and this would not have happened.

It took him less than 9 seconds after he was asked to begin to pull in.

Immediately when he tried to pull in he was obstructed by the third Garda.

At no time do we hear him refuse to pull in and his attempt to pull in indicated he was willing to comply.


Him not managing to pull in is a non-issue.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

It took him less than 9 seconds after he was asked to begin to pull in.

Immediately when he tried to pull in he was obstructed by the third Garda.

At no time do we hear him refuse to pull in and his attempt to pull in indicated he was willing to comply.


Him not managing to pull in is a non-issue.

'Not managing'?

Don't you mean refusing?

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

Perhaps, but clearly the Gardaí weren't willing to converse through a closed window so I think it's reasonable to assume they asked him to open it before requesting his license, insurance, etc.

I think the link I posted is clearer, I though he was the guard at the start the way he was shouting, did you think that?

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

'Not managing'?

Don't you mean refusing?

He did not refuse.

He may not have moved with the haste and glee you would have liked but he did not refuse.

Had he attempted to continue pulling in he would have hit the third Garda.

His actions indicate his intent.

His actions were pulling in thus his intent was to pull in.

steddyeddy

Maybe these shell to sea guys would make more progress with their objectives if they stopped with this looking for a reaction rubbish. It turns the public against them.

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

I think the link I posted is clearer, I though he was the guard at the start the way he was shouting, did you think that?

I figured he was shouting so the camera would pick him up clear or because he intentionally had the window closed so he was conscious of being heard through it.

Or because he's a dickhead.

Mr. Manager

I'm finding it difficult not to side with the Gardai here.

The man was looking for a reaction and he got one. Maybe not the reaction he wanted.

What was he hoping to accomplish by not abiding to their instructions? That they might just say "Well, I guess he doesn't want to co-operate with us, we should just let him go on about his business".


Idiot.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

I figured he was shouting so the camera would pick him up clear or because he intentionally had the window closed so he was conscious of being heard through it.

Or because he's a dickhead.

I meant his attitude, though he was the one asking the questions, it was obvious he was out for trouble when the banners walked away.

Liam Byrne

baltimore sun wrote: »

Ridiculous reaction from the cops though. Fair play to yer man for having a camera on his dash.

Ah yes, because people who aren't out to cause a scene always have their cameras running on their dashboard..... :rolleyes:

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

He did not refuse.

He didn't verbally refuse, he just didn't bother his ass to do what he was asked which is tantamount to refusing.

Seachmall wrote: »

He may not have moved with the haste and glee you would have liked but he did not refused.

He was being passive aggressive.

Seachmall wrote: »

Had he attempted to continue pulling in he would have hit the third Garda.

He only made a token effort when he saw the Guard coming over.

Seachmall wrote: »

His actions indicate his intent.

Exactly, he acted like a twat and he intended to act like a twat.

Seachmall wrote: »

His actions were pulling in thus his intent was to pull in.

I think it's his lack of action that showed his intent.

44leto

Just seen the op LOL
I was more disturbed by the Mod warning.
What happened was there some sort of political upheaval
are we now living in a police state..

Why can't we bash the garde.

hondasam

This is some of John Monaghan's account of what happened, it is how we seen it on the video?

John Monaghan is a Rossport resident and is a spokesperson for Pobail Chill Chomain, a community campaign opposing Shell's inland refinery project in north Mayo (the Corrib Gas project). Here is John's account of what happened:

"This occurred at lunchtime on Ash Wednesday, 22nd February, 2012, on a small local road, L1202 in Glengad, Co Mayo. This is close to Shell's haulage route and about 70 metres from Shell's compound in Glengad. This is a few kilometres from Shell's refinery site at Bellanaboy.

"You can see that two female Gardaí approached the car. When the third Garda, a man, approached the window, he had his baton drawn before he knocked on the window. After he smashed the window, I got out of the car. The Garda told me I was under arrest. I was surrounded by Gardaí with batons drawn.

" 'Are you refusing to show your licence?'," the male Garda said. I thought I was in for a beating.

"When I took out my driver's licence and he looked at it, the atmosphere changed instantly. They all backed away and suddenly I wasn't under arrest any more. The only conclusion I can draw is that they assumed I was an outside supporter, from the Rossport Solidarity Camp. I assume that when they saw my name and a Rossport address address, that is what changed their approach.

"So, I was left a bleeding hand from the broken window and with a car with a broken window on the side of the road. I phoned Belmullet Garda station to complain and to ask for assistance. They refused to send anyone.

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

I meant his attitude, though he was the one asking the questions, it was obvious he was out for trouble when the banners walked away.

No doubt about that.

I think he went out with the aim of being as provocative as he could while still remaining on the right side of a law with the intent of getting an unreasonable reaction from the Gardaí so that he could publicise how poorly the Gardaí are dealing with protesters.

Unfortunately I think he succeeded in getting a reaction while acting within his legal right, but I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

I'm still critical of the Garda in this situation as from what I can tell he acted in a manner not in accordance with the law. I do however appreciate I don't have the full story here.

lastlaugh wrote:

I think it's his lack of action that showed his intent.

Given that the video clearly shows he attempted to pull in your point is completely invalid.

If you believe just under 9 seconds to be an unreasonable amount of time then we'll have to agree to disagree but him ultimately attempting to pull in is not in dispute. It is an observable fact.

Liam Byrne

Seachmall wrote: »

....I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

...and in the process are frightening decent people off protesting because they don't want to be associated with that crap and don't want to be there when some "provocative disingenuous" individual decides to antagonise someone on a pre-prepared camera for the sake of a cheap YouTube PR stunt.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

No doubt about that.

I think he went out with the aim of being as provocative as he could while still remaining on the right side of a law with the intent of getting an unreasonable reaction from the Gardaí so that he could publicise how poorly the Gardaí are dealing with protesters.

Unfortunately I think he succeeded in getting a reaction while acting within his legal right, but I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

I'm still critical of the Garda in this situation as from what I can tell he acted in a manner not in accordance with the law. I do however appreciate I don't have the full story here.

I think they were in accordance with the law, acted on it a bit to quick from what we have seen.
I don't think John Monaghan is telling it like we seen it, what do you think?

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think John Monaghan is telling it like we seen it, what do you think?

I'm only going by the video, no doubt he's framing it to make the big bad Gardaí look like enforcers for commercial interests.

I think they were in accordance with the law, acted on it a bit to quick from what we have seen.

I kind of agree with you but I think it's an "agree to disagree" situation.