Have been paying someone else's bill??? Pls advise

marrakechheat

Hi all,

My sister has been renting a bungalow with her boyfriend for a year now. The landlord also has a barn-type building, located about 150 meters away, rented by a farmer to store his cows etc. According to the landlord, the farmer has been renting for about 2 years. During their (sister +BF) renting period, they get on well with the landlord – even the farmer, though they don’t see him often.

Just last night, her boyfriend was outside and saw the barn’s lights was on. He suddenly got curious as to how and where the barn gets its electricity from, considering the barn comes with the bungalow. The difference is they are rented by different parties.
So, my sister and her boyfriend turned all the power off to see if it affects the barn. All the switches were turned off and the barn went dark. They finally found the switch that controls the lights in the barn. They tested over and over again and finally confirmed that the switch really is controlling the power in the barn.

They phoned the landlord immediately to tell him about this situation and the landlord said that he did not have any knowledge about it and that it shouldn’t be happening, blah blah blah. He also said that the power in the bungalow and the barn used to be connected but was cut off since he started to rent them out. Basically he denies any knowledge and kept saying that he wouldn’t do that to them etc. In the end, he promised to sort it out ASAP.
Later that night, my sister phoned again to find out what action had been taken. The landlord said that he had contacted the farmer and that even the farmer has no knowledge about it etc. My sister asked how has the electric bill of that barn been paid. Landlord said that he didn’t really know how but the farmer has been paying for it (?????) My sister said if that’s the case then she would like to see the bill, she needs to see the proof the barn bill has been paid by the supposed person. Landlord’s reply was “I can try and ask though he’s not obliged to do so.”
My sister was absolutely raging, she insisted to have as many bills produced before her as proof because the fact that they can control the power is very upsetting and deceiving. She also told the landlord that she has decided to keep the power on for that night for the sake of the animals in there but needs to get this sorted as it’s her meter that’s running. About 20 minutes after, the barn was completely dark. Either someone came to turn it off or the cows did. If someone did come and didn’t commit any illegal activity, that someone should have knocked the door and explained.

They are very upset over this and they felt silly at the same time because they only just realised now after a year of renting. They have been very careful with their own usage and whats worse, they just renewed the contract for another year. They believe there’s something fishy going on between the landlord and the farmer. Their suspicion that they have been paying the bill for the barn has not been proven yet but whats your opinion on this? What is the renting law for this situation? Do they have the right to see the proof that the barn bill has been paid for (ask to see the bills). Landlord is getting someone he knows to check on this, should they get their own electrician to make sure whats going on? If it is proven, then what should they do? Sue? Go to court? Can they at least get a compensation, say a month rent free? Where do they stand?


Thanks very much

the_syco

When the lights are on in the barn, plug everything out in your house, and switch off all the lights, and check if the meter is still going up. This will mean that your sister is paying for someone elses electricity.

Maybe then your sister should switch one switch at a time to the "off" position on the fuse-board until the barn lights go off, and then see if having it off affects anything in your house.

Who do you pay for your electricity? Maybe look into having the landlord getting an ESB electrician out to disconnect the barn from the house. I'm sure that'll light a fire under their ass to get this sorted ASAP!

marrakechheat

the_syco wrote: »

When the lights are on in the barn, plug everything out in your house, and switch off all the lights, and check if the meter is still going up. This will mean that your sister is paying for someone elses electricity.

Maybe then your sister should switch one switch at a time to the "off" position on the fuse-board until the barn lights go off, and then see if having it off affects anything in your house.

Who do you pay for your electricity? Maybe look into having the landlord getting an ESB electrician out to disconnect the barn from the house. I'm sure that'll light a fire under their ass to get this sorted ASAP!

hi the_syco,

thx very much for your reply. they didnt check the meter when they switched off things but ill tell them to do so. They pay to ESB. How much will it cost to get an ESB electrician out for that kind of job, would you know? The landlord will not opt to use an ESB electrician. He claims that someone he knows is an "electrician"

thanks again

the_syco

marrakechheat wrote: »

They pay to ESB. How much will it cost to get an ESB electrician out for that kind of job, would you know?

Not sure. Also, as it's your landlords house, he'd really need to get them out to do an alteration. Not sure if the ESB would even send someone out: more of a ruse to show that your sister is serious about fixing

marrakechheat wrote: »

The landlord will not opt to use an ESB electrician. He claims that someone he knows is an "electrician"

Meh, he probably does, but whether he'll cut the barn off and put a separate fuse-board and meter for the barn or not is a different story.

sundodger5

just leave the power off to the barn. that will ensure a quick resolution.

Bruthal

the_syco wrote: »

When the lights are on in the barn, plug everything out in your house, and switch off all the lights, and check if the meter is still going up. This will mean that your sister is paying for someone elses electricity.

They will also want to then switch the barn switch on and off, to confirm that is whats turning the meter, as it would be easy to forget something thats still on in the house.

Even if something else small was still on, such as house alarm, the effect of the barn lighting etc being switched on and off will clearly be seen if someone watches the meter while another switches the barn switch on and off.

It seems likely the barn is on the house meter.

hohojojo

there is nothing stopping the farmer getting a submeter put in that he can off set cost of the barn off your bill

the esb will do nothing as it's within the house

unless there is a second phase at the barn the farmer can't be getting a bill and if he he is the landlord is charging him for the power through a submeter

are you bills high?

is the house big as i find it hard to understand how they didn't notice the extra cost it would start to add up

but i would definately turn off the breaker to the barn untill you are compensated and as you are doing no damage or alteration within the property you are renting nothing can be said

and if the landlord says anything then you'll be quick to know weather he is just screwing you over and then i would get on to the ptrb and maybe suggest to the landlord that may need to involve the guards as you feel like you have been stolen from

robbing electricity is a common problem nowadays

Bruthal

hohojojo wrote: »

are you bills high?

Everyone thinks their bills are high.

is the house big as i find it hard to understand how they didn't notice the extra cost it would start to add up

If the barn light is only on the odd time, it would easily go un-noticed. Im not saying they shold be paying for it what so ever.

But even 300 watts of lighting for 2 hours a day would be less than 7 euro per bill, so it would easily go un-noticed on the average household bill.

Curly Judge

While you'r at it check to see how the cattle in the shed are being provided with water.
If they are not on the mains you could be supplying them with free water from your supply or with the electricity to run a separate pump.
Both the farmer and the landlord sound to me to be your typical Irish stonewalling codgers!

djimi

Did they get the landlord around and show him the barn lights go out when they turned off the switch on the fusebox?

Assuming the ESB is in their name have they contact the ESB to ask them if there is another account on the property? I have always found ESB to be extremely helpful and Im sure they will do what they can to help get this sorted for you so its worth giving them a call.

If its really bothering them then it might be worth turning off the switch to the barn while the farmer is there and then see if he comes running. If he complains then tell him you wont be turning it back on again until you see some proof that he has been paying an ESB bill; if he has one he will show it to you pretty fast. Its not the correct way to deal with the situation perhaps but Im sure its one way of getting it sorted the quickest!

pawnacide

Surely, if you turn your mains switch off and the lights in the barn go off you absolutely have to be paying for their electricity. I don't really get why there's any doubt about this.

Milk & Honey

the_syco wrote: »

When the lights are on in the barn, plug everything out in your house, and switch off all the lights, and check if the meter is still going up. This will mean that your sister is paying for someone elses electricity.

Maybe then your sister should switch one switch at a time to the "off" position on the fuse-board until the barn lights go off, and then see if having it off affects anything in your house.

Who do you pay for your electricity? Maybe look into having the landlord getting an ESB electrician out to disconnect the barn from the house. I'm sure that'll light a fire under their ass to get this sorted ASAP!

There is nearly always some movement in an Esb meter even when everything is switched off. The thing to do is sent a letter to the landlord outlining what has happened. Theft of electricity is a criminal offence. The landlord should be advised that a complaint will be made to the garda unless compensation is forthcoming.

amdublin

Is it just a light in the barn that is being supplied with power?
Or heating also?

If it's just a light - that is only on when your light is on would it have added that much on your bill?? I.e. Is it really worth all this fuss

If you are heating that bill via your esb bill different story altogether!!!

amdublin

^^^

Suggest you find out the above (I.e. Just the light or heating as well).

If just the light, agree a figure with the farmer/landlord that they need to pay you eg. €10 per every month you've been there
(or get an estimate from an electrician/esb as to how much)

Bruthal

amdublin wrote: »

^^^

Suggest you find out the above (I.e. Just the light or heating as well).

If just the light, agree a figure with the farmer/landlord that they need to pay you eg. €10 per every month you've been there
(or get an estimate from an electrician/esb as to how much)

Every 100 watts is 1.8 cent per hour. Thats it really.

amdublin

robbie7730 wrote: »

Every 100 watts is 1.8 cent per hour. Thats it really.

So assuming it's connected to a light that they had on every eve for a few hours, should be easy enough to work out a price and ask the farmer to pay.

Op - what size bungalow and how much on average were the bills every month? Is this worth making a big fuss over? Has it been hundreds and hundreds they have paid extra over the years?

Bruthal

amdublin wrote: »

So assuming it's connected to a light that they had on every eve for a few hours, should be easy enough to work out a price and ask the farmer to pay.

It depends how often the farmer is there, as i posted earler, a 300 watt lamp for 2 hours every day would be just under €7 per bill. He could well hardly ever be there. That would be hard to estimate.

The simplest solution is a meter installed on the circuit out to the shed. Not by the esb as thats unlikely to be practical for this type of setup, but by an electrician with a meter that can be bought in an electrical wholesalers. A simple job to do for any electrician.

But again, if its a 100 to 300 watt light thats on for 10 minutes every week, hardly worth that bother either.

How often does the op`s sister see the farmer there, or how often is the light seen on, is the real question. If the light is on all night every night, that would run up a few euros.

djimi

amdublin wrote: »

If it's just a light - that is only on when your light is on would it have added that much on your bill?? I.e. Is it really worth all this fuss

I would have thought it was the principle as much as anything; even if its only a tenner extra per bill why on earth should the OP be paying for some cheeky gits electricity for his barn? If he is not paying a bill then he knows he has been stealing free electricity from someone, so I would be inclined to make it as awkward for him as I possibly could.

amdublin

djimi wrote: »

amdublin wrote: »

If it's just a light - that is only on when your light is on would it have added that much on your bill?? I.e. Is it really worth all this fuss

B
I would have thought it was the principle as much as anything; even if its only a tenner extra per bill why on earth should the OP be paying for some cheeky gits electricity for his barn? If he is not paying a bill then he knows he has been stealing free electricity from someone, so I would be inclined to make it as awkward for him as I possibly could.

I mean is it worth chasing someone for the past use.
Obviously id want it sorted that it is disconnected asap to avoid any further charging.

djimi

amdublin wrote: »

I mean is it worth chasing someone for the past use.
Obviously id want it sorted that it is disconnected asap to avoid any further charging.

Youre probably right; I certainly dont know if Id bother getting legal about it if its only a small amount of money, but Id certainly chance my arm by suggesting that you are seeking legal advise to see what can be recouped and see how the farmer reacts to that; they might just offer an amount to make it go away if they are afraid of being persued legally for the full amount that is owed. Call his bluff so to speak.

Bruthal

djimi wrote: »

I would have thought it was the principle as much as anything; even if its only a tenner extra per bill why on earth should the OP be paying for some cheeky gits electricity for his barn? If he is not paying a bill then he knows he has been stealing free electricity from someone, so I would be inclined to make it as awkward for him as I possibly could.

I dont think anyone is arguing that they should ignore it if it was only a tenner, its more in reference to the fact that that small of usage added on would easily go un-noticed. That was one of the good questions from another poster, i.e. did they notice big bills.

Having said that, if the rent is reasonable etc. i wouldnt be too bothered myself if its just lights being used a couple of hours a month. As long as he doesnt have a hidden milking parlour in there also:)

the_syco

If there's a light, there could be a plug, and if there's a plug, what was used, when, and for how long: you just wouldn't know.

eire-kp

Op if you say you get on well with the landlord get an agreed amount each month to cover it,
Although the person using the barn might use it a lot more if they are being made pay for it if you know what I mean.

The best solution is to get your landlord to install a small kwh meter at your consumer unit with the supply to the shed going through it.

If you are getting no where with them, just turn off the mcb supplying the shed and it wont be long until you hear back from them if the electricity is needed in the shed or not.

pejay

I rented a house in a similar situation and didn't cop it for months, my esb bill was coming in high every time it was due and i could not understand it,

My house was situated on land with a farm surrounding it with electric fence.

I have 5 children and they were at school in the day and we were at work, so there was barely usage of electricity in the daytime,
I rang the esb and asked what appliance in my house could be causing the bill to be this high,(dryers, LCD flat screens) she said, in the end she advised me to switch of the power of everything in the house and to go out to the esb metre and the it should stop moving, however when i went out it was flying round and nothing in the house was on,
Still not understand it but then after returning from work one day early the local farmer was in my shed switching power back on for his electric fence i confronted him regarding this and he said when he sold the house the new owner said he could keep the power supply connected to the house,
There was no mention of this when i rented the house and i was shocked to say the least, i eventually got it sorted and i did not pay rent for 1 month until it was sorted this had been going on for 6 months and iwas so close to disconnection as i could not pay the bill, by withholding the rent for 1 month i was able to do so.