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Self build mortgage?
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Hi there, find your answers very informative so hope you don't mind if I throw one in...Have been gifted a site, purchased for 100k by my parents, planning permission received. Have a salary of 31k, with about 2k overtime guaranteed per annum, no kids, no loans or cc, save €800pm and have approx 11k savings. Looking for 100% construction costs mortgage as site is in place, first of all is this ok or have things changed? So far, I applied to my own bank UB which have called me to say its approved but are looking for a letter to state that my parents have paid the architect fees and solicitor fees etc which they have, is this ok to give, will it ever come back on my parents? They are offering 155k fir the build, my fiancé and family are building the house so very little labour costs, by he way I applied as a single applicant for mortgage. I was hoping to go with AIB for a mortgage as they're rates seem far less that other banks, at first they said they would give me €170k (monthly repayments were nearly the same with the rate difference) but called them today and said it had been refused. I'm now worried that it will go on file that I have been refused by AIB and it will affect my chances with proceeding?? Can I now re- apply to AIB for the lower amount of 155k or how do I go about this?? Also, my solicitor told me today that as part of getting the mortgage that the applicant now has to pay the banks solicitors fees, is this true??? Apparently it was only recently brought it, I nearly died..!! So sorry for such a long rant, would just love some advice as to hwhat o do next, whether to just accept the higher rate mortgage with UB as don't want to push my luck!!! Thanks a mill
Hi Duffers11,
Wow you managed to squeeze a lot of questions in there!! I'll try to answer them in the order you have them above (in bold).
1. Ok to fund 100% of the construction costs when you have a site worth €100k as equity towards the build. If your borrowing €155k and your value on completion is €255k your loan to value is only 60% and well within Bank's policies.
2. The fact that you applied to AIB and have been declined will have no bearing on your ability to proceed with UB. Have you been given the reasons that you were declined? Are you building using direct labour or by way of fixed price contract with your fiance's family? Did AIB know which route you were going down before decision changed? Bank's view direct labour as a more riskier type of lending and would like to see you have further savings than €11k to cover any cost overruns.
3. Re-applying with AIB and whether it's worth your while doing so will purely depend on the reasons that you were declined? (If you can let me know what they said I can tell you whether it's worth your while and how you should go about it)
4. The Bank do not employ a separate solicitor to deal with a self build or a standard house purchase and your solicitor is allowed to do all the legal work involved with the transaction. I would be wary of this being an attempt by your solicitor to bump up the fees they are charging you.
If you can answer the questions above in relation to the response from AIB I might be able to throw some more light on this for you....
Thanks so much for your quick reply. So I should have no problem getting 100%, we reckon at a guess, house will be worth approx 450-500k upon completion.
No wasn't given any reasons, just a quick mention of repayment capacity but I would be well able to cover even at stressed rate, I am wondering however, with it being 170k this might be a push. They r a nightmare 2 deal with, so rude, I won't even begin to tell u what they done, at the start they sent me out somebody else's mortgage details, name, address, salary, job, mortgage looked for, what they sold their house for, everything and because I had the courtesy to let them and man know, to be refused feel a little hard done by. Building direct labour, fiancé is a builder out of work and can do a hell of alot on his own, thankfully! Architect added 15% contingency in the costings to cover over runs, so this was included in mortgage sought and have my savings aswell.It's just crazy at the mo with the rates available, AIB seem to have the best rate options across the board! Going to try and ring them 2mo and get a few more answers from them. Was thinking that with solicitor, sounded very strange that not only do I cover his fees but also the banks solicitor fees???0 -
Thanks so much for your quick reply. So I should have no problem getting 100%, we reckon at a guess, house will be worth approx 450-500k upon completion.
No wasn't given any reasons, just a quick mention of repayment capacity but I would be well able to cover even at stressed rate, I am wondering however, with it being 170k this might be a push. They r a nightmare 2 deal with, so rude, I won't even begin to tell u what they done, at the start they sent me out somebody else's mortgage details, name, address, salary, job, mortgage looked for, what they sold their house for, everything and because I had the courtesy to let them and man know, to be refused feel a little hard done by. Building direct labour, fiancé is a builder out of work and can do a hell of alot on his own, thankfully! Architect added 15% contingency in the costings to cover over runs, so this was included in mortgage sought and have my savings aswell.It's just crazy at the mo with the rates available, AIB seem to have the best rate options across the board! Going to try and ring them 2mo and get a few more answers from them. Was thinking that with solicitor, sounded very strange that not only do I cover his fees but also the banks solicitor fees???
I think what's happened is this. AIB assess applications in 2 ways, firstly they put your income figure into their calc to see what it allows you to borrow. In your case using the full €33k and presuming you are aged younger than 30 it would spit out a figure of €171k. They then look at the second part of their calculations which will look at your net monthly income. They stress the repayment on the amount applied for €170k @ 5% over the term available, €857.97pm. Their guideline is that when you subtract this figure from your net monthly income you should be left with €1,500 disposable income to live off. I would imagine when they did this exercise you fell short of the €1,500 figure and this is one of the reasons you were declined. Stressed repayments on €155k only reduce the repayments to €782pm so my guess is it won't effect their decision. You probably have been living at home and the only repayment capacity you can show is contributing €800pm to your savings? If so, they are not going to lend you a figure where the stressed repayment equals the amount you have proven capacity for. They will take the view that you have no experience of managing a household budget and the additional expenses related to owning your own home and in their eyes repayment capacity isn't evident. For AIB to lend to the figure that the income part of their calculation allows you need to have a proven repayment capacity for well in excess of the stressed mortgage repayment. Did you mention to the bank that your fiance was going to carry out the build? This would have a very negative effect on your application because they would take the view that once the house is built and he is unemployed (they always take a worst case scenario view) you would need more than €1,500 in disposable income to sustain two adults. Overall the figures at €170k are outside of AIB's policy and at €155k very very marginal at best....
In relation to your parents signing to say they have paid for Architects & Solrs fees that is no problem at all, at worst the costs involved would be considered a gift to you for tax computations down the road but @ €100k + those fees you are still well below the gift tax thresholds for a gift from a parent to a child.
Other thing I'd say is to get quotes from different solicitors! Ask your solicitor to email you a detailed breakdown of the full fees involved...I'd be very interested to see how it's worded!0 -
Hi, thanks again for reply. I had a car loan in previous years which was €265.00 pm and I also saved at that time aswell, cleared the loan with no arrears etc so dont knwo if this would help, they would be able to see that from my ICB check. I am currently living in a house rent free until I had got mortgage
, so my current account would show payments for electricty, gas etc, again I dont know if this would show that I can pay as a 'homeowner'. Would you have any advice as to what I should say when I contact AIB later today? No I just said that build was direct labour and put that I was single applicant, didnt go into detail as to whom would build it.
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Hi, thanks again for reply. I had a car loan in previous years which was €265.00 pm and I also saved at that time aswell, cleared the loan with no arrears etc so dont knwo if this would help, they would be able to see that from my ICB check. I am currently living in a house rent free until I had got mortgage
, so my current account would show payments for electricty, gas etc, again I dont know if this would show that I can pay as a 'homeowner'. Would you have any advice as to what I should say when I contact AIB later today? No I just said that build was direct labour and put that I was single applicant, didnt go into detail as to whom would build it.
Ok, just tell them that you were saving €800pm and repaying €265pm car loan at the same time. This gives you a repayment capacity for €1065pm. Also mention that although you were living rent free you were covering bills such as food & utility costs so are accustomed to the expenses associated with running a household. Just say that you have recalculated your figures and a loan amount of €155k would be sufficient. Not much else you can tell them really... figures just about work on a loan amount of €155k, you have a repayment capacity evident so it'll really boil down to the Underwriter on the day making a decision. Hard for me to give you a definitive answer as I haven't seen any of the paperwork... best of luck and if you need anything else let me know!0 -
Ok, so I have rang them, got speaking to someone who was really rude (not surprised)!! She said that I cannot build a house for what I said I could, she said that the cost the banks use is €83 per sq ft and that I couldnt build a house for what I said I could (think it was approx €65 per sq ft), I advised as to where she got her figure from as things have changed dramatically with cost of building, she wasnt bothered. I advised her that my family were building it for me so majority of fees were for materials, then she proceeded to say that it was beacuse I was only in my job since Sep last year, I advised that I am in a permanent position and that I have had 3.5 years continous employment which is normally ok. She then said that I am of no interest to them, and that they wouldnt ever be interested unless I brought something else to the table. Cannot get over how rude and derogative these people are...Starting to think I should just accept a bank with a higher rate!!0
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Ok, so I have rang them, got speaking to someone who was really rude (not surprised)!! She said that I cannot build a house for what I said I could, she said that the cost the banks use is €83 per sq ft and that I couldnt build a house for what I said I could (think it was approx €65 per sq ft), I advised as to where she got her figure from as things have changed dramatically with cost of building, she wasnt bothered. I advised her that my family were building it for me so majority of fees were for materials, then she proceeded to say that it was beacuse I was only in my job since Sep last year, I advised that I am in a permanent position and that I have had 3.5 years continous employment which is normally ok. She then said that I am of no interest to them, and that they wouldnt ever be interested unless I brought something else to the table. Cannot get over how rude and derogative these people are...Starting to think I should just accept a bank with a higher rate!!
Wow! Sounds like you got to speak to someone having a really bad day! Reading between the lines - they tried to fob you off by saying that your costings were off, then tried to say it was because you're not in your job long enough (which is rubbish as AIB insist only a minimum of 6 months I'm a permanent job). Ultimately they don't like and are not attracted to the proposal. They view a direct labour self build as the riskiest type of lending as cost overruns happen quite regularly. In my opinion they have declined your application because they don't feel your income level is sufficient and probably feel that you don't have sufficient funds in the background to cover any unexpected additional expenses. Yours is another example of why people should use a broker a) to put your best foot forward with your application & b) So you wouldn't have to deal with rude staff members! I think you'll just have to accept this isn't one for AIB and look elsewhere...only thing that might change AIB's decision would be a fixed price contract for the build and a parental gift of cash to hold in the background to cover any cost overruns...0 -
Hi Duffers11, don't get disheatened. This might take you a while. I had been waiting for ages to get approval and worked extremely hard paying off loans for a year and trying to build up my savings. Thankfully, in the past couple of weeks, we have been approved in principle. There is still abit of an uphill climb with further documentation we have to provide but we're getting there. The banks do tend to be quite fussy with the likes of funding over-runs and the likes. I can only advise working very hard for the next year saving, if you can afford to put €1000 a month away, that will both help with the over-runs issue and prove your repayment capacity. This may not be possible if you're getting married in the meantime and your h2b is unemployed as they will underwrite you both together, regardless of whether you're applying on your own or not. I too would recommend a broker.... they say a mortgage approval is 50% information and 50% application. I didn't use killers1 in my mortgage application but he certainly seems to know his stuff!!!;)0
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Hi, thanks for all your advice. Just stressing as its such a big process and its for the next 35 years!!:eek: Starting to lose faith, they are all corrupt! Dont know how this country is ever going to recover with an attitude like that!! Anyway, thanks again killers!!:)0
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Ok, so I have rang them, got speaking to someone who was really rude (not surprised)!! She said that I cannot build a house for what I said I could, she said that the cost the banks use is €83 per sq ft and that I couldnt build a house for what I said I could (think it was approx €65 per sq ft), I advised as to where she got her figure from as things have changed dramatically with cost of building, she wasnt bothered. I advised her that my family were building it for me so majority of fees were for materials, then she proceeded to say that it was beacuse I was only in my job since Sep last year, I advised that I am in a permanent position and that I have had 3.5 years continous employment which is normally ok. She then said that I am of no interest to them, and that they wouldnt ever be interested unless I brought something else to the table. Cannot get over how rude and derogative these people are...Starting to think I should just accept a bank with a higher rate!!
I've been talking to both BoI and AIB re a self build.
The reason they request costings to come in at 83 - 90 per sq ft is because they don't want you coming back to them in 6 months looking for another 15-20k to finish the build. Remember this house is collateral for the loan. AIB or BoI don't want to be repossessing a half built house so they want expensive quotes so that they are confident the house will be built and finished in case you stop paying your loan down the line.
If its possible and you think you will qualify resubmit a quote hitting 85per sq ft and fingers crossed you get approved. You then have space in case you overrun, and remember you don't have to draw the full amount down.
So say you calculate your build cost at 150k @ 63psf. Apply for 200k @ 85psf. If you are approved and you can build for 150 then you can hand back the extra 50k you don't need.0 -
padraig.od wrote: »I've been talking to both BoI and AIB re a self build.
The reason they request costings to come in at 83 - 90 per sq ft is because they don't want you coming back to them in 6 months looking for another 15-20k to finish the build. Remember this house is collateral for the loan. AIB or BoI don't want to be repossessing a half built house so they want expensive quotes so that they are confident the house will be built and finished in case you stop paying your loan down the line.
If its possible and you think you will qualify resubmit a quote hitting 85per sq ft and fingers crossed you get approved. You then have space in case you overrun, and remember you don't have to draw the full amount down.
So say you calculate your build cost at 150k @ 63psf. Apply for 200k @ 85psf. If you are approved and you can build for 150 then you can hand back the extra 50k you don't need.
Unfortunately Duffers11 won't qualify for that amount in her current circumstances...
I know it doesn't feel like it now Duffers11 but honestly I think you will be thanking the bank in a year or two when you're able to put yourself in a better position. The last thing you want is to be putting yourself under pressure trying to finish the house. I know you say 150k will build it but you're probably looking at another 20-30k to finish it - especially when you factor in ESB connection, dev contribution fees, solicitor fees, water connection etc but maybe you've done this already.
I was like you about 1.5yrs ago when I was initially refused. Now I'm much happier with the situation I'm in and ready to start this big undertaking. Also bear in mind that AIB only give 25 yr mortgages now which would increase your monthly repayment.
Honestly, take your time and don't be upsetting youself. It'll all work out and use the time now to do your homework.0 -
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padraig.od wrote: »I've been talking to both BoI and AIB re a self build.
The reason they request costings to come in at 83 - 90 per sq ft is because they don't want you coming back to them in 6 months looking for another 15-20k to finish the build. Remember this house is collateral for the loan. AIB or BoI don't want to be repossessing a half built house so they want expensive quotes so that they are confident the house will be built and finished in case you stop paying your loan down the line.
If its possible and you think you will qualify resubmit a quote hitting 85per sq ft and fingers crossed you get approved. You then have space in case you overrun, and remember you don't have to draw the full amount down.
So say you calculate your build cost at 150k @ 63psf. Apply for 200k @ 85psf. If you are approved and you can build for 150 then you can hand back the extra 50k you don't need.
This isn't an option due to salary constraints. Even if you apply on the basis that the cost is 85psf you still need to satisfy the bank that you have sufficient funds to cover any cost overruns and need that €15-€20k left over. You can't apply for €200k if you're producing costings for €150k as they won't lend 125% of the build cost. If you're applying on the basis that it's going to actually cost €200k to build (whether it really will or not) you need to have surplus funds to get approval0 -
Unfortunately Duffers11 won't qualify for that amount in her current circumstances...
I know it doesn't feel like it now Duffers11 but honestly I think you will be thanking the bank in a year or two when you're able to put yourself in a better position. The last thing you want is to be putting yourself under pressure trying to finish the house. I know you say 150k will build it but you're probably looking at another 20-30k to finish it - especially when you factor in ESB connection, dev contribution fees, solicitor fees, water connection etc but maybe you've done this already.
I was like you about 1.5yrs ago when I was initially refused. Now I'm much happier with the situation I'm in and ready to start this big undertaking. Also bear in mind that AIB only give 25 yr mortgages now which would increase your monthly repayment.
Honestly, take your time and don't be upsetting youself. It'll all work out and use the time now to do your homework.
I agree with this, you are under no immediate pressure to build the house immediately & your PP is probably valid for 5 yrs or so. There is a lot you can do to ensure that when you apply again your proposal is more attractive to the bank and one of those is to save, save & save some more. Only thing I'd mention is that AIB don't just do 25 yr mortgages, they'll lend over a max term of 35 years up to age 65 at expiry.0 -
Yeah the max I can qualify for with AIB is 170k, either way I would not apply for a higher mortgage just to suit them. As mentioned previously, the fiancé is building it, the only part he is unable to complete himself is plumbing & electrics and even at that we have good contacts in the trade. I think it's a blessing in disguise, I have already been approved with Ulster Bank and they didn't seem to find a problem with the costings. Furthermore I am in the process of complaint to AIB after the way I was treated by every member of staff. I only heard today on the radio that AIB are introducing charges to their current account holders if they do not retain €2500 on deposit in current account at all times! I think it's time to go back to the days of cash under the matress instead of getting involved with these corrupt idiots!!! I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has been approved a mortgage from AIB for a self build and what conditions they had to satisfy. Rant over, thanks again guys!!:D0
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Well duffers,
I'm hitting the mortgage road this week with my boyfriend - using a broker though. We really want to get it right the first time round so i reckon they are the best foot forward rather than going to the banks ourselves. And after reading your experience with AIB above I'm well put off them. I am looking for less than would be expected also as my other half is a plumber and knows plenty of the right people to get best prices. Fingers crossed we get apporved - we got quotes around the €150k mark from contract companies but we think we can do it for €110k and have about €15k+ for overruns ourselves. Will keep you posted how we get on.0 -
Unfortunately Duffers11 won't qualify for that amount in her current circumstances...
I know it doesn't feel like it now Duffers11 but honestly I think you will be thanking the bank in a year or two when you're able to put yourself in a better position. The last thing you want is to be putting yourself under pressure trying to finish the house. I know you say 150k will build it but you're probably looking at another 20-30k to finish it - especially when you factor in ESB connection, dev contribution fees, solicitor fees, water connection etc but maybe you've done this already.
I was like you about 1.5yrs ago when I was initially refused. Now I'm much happier with the situation I'm in and ready to start this big undertaking. Also bear in mind that AIB only give 25 yr mortgages now which would increase your monthly repayment.
Honestly, take your time and don't be upsetting youself. It'll all work out and use the time now to do your homework.
yes sorry I meant to say only to apply for the higher amount if you think they will approve it. AIB are giving out greater than 25 year mortgage provided you are young enough. They were really pushing us towards a 35 year mortgage and said I could pay down at any rate I wanted without penalty so it would be cleared after 25 years, if I could afford to.0 -
Hi people, i was wondering what people think about my scenario. I have a free site off my parents, have savings of 11k and a job with an annual salary of 25k. How much of a mortgage would i be likely to get? I would presume it would'nt be too high considering my salary.0
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Hi people, i was wondering what people think about my scenario. I have a free site off my parents, have savings of 11k and a job with an annual salary of 25k. How much of a mortgage would i be likely to get? I would presume it would'nt be too high considering my salary.
Hi, id say about 115k, go to your bank or broker they will advise you better0 -
Hi people, i was wondering what people think about my scenario. I have a free site off my parents, have savings of 11k and a job with an annual salary of 25k. How much of a mortgage would i be likely to get? I would presume it would'nt be too high considering my salary.
Presuming you're younger than 30 yrs old with no dependents or loans you are looking at up to a max of €119k...0 -
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Hi Killers1, I wonder would you mind giving me a bit of advice.
Me and my patner are both 22 yrs of age and are looking into gettting a self build mortgage.
We are hoping to purchase land from a friend of my partners father at a low rate (approx 15-20k).
Jointly we earn approx 43k per annum. We both live at home so pay no rent. We have savings of €5000 so far (saving €500 monthly) and my partner was made redunandat but went straight into full time employment with a different company, so we also have some of his rundandancy to put towards savings.
I have a loan with credit union of 2k and his loan is 4k.
We reckon we will need approx €180,000.
Do you think we have a good chance of been approved?
A close friend of ours will be doing the building and we also have a friend who is a carpenter and an electrician.
I am also wondering about stage payments. Would we be able to use money from the mortgage to complete the inside of the house, ie fixtures & fittings and furniture? We have included these in the amount we reckon we will need.
Any information you could supply me with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks A Mil0 -
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First time poster here and similar to many others I have been thinking a lot about mortgage application and likelihood of getting accepted. I have been glued to this post since it began and killers1 advice has been the best I have seen on any forum ( I have browsed a fair few on this topic!!!). Like many others if u have time killers any advice on my situation it would be fantastic.
In my situation my partners and I's joint income is 95k per annum. Currently we are saving 1800 per month plus my partner pays 250 rent per month. I am also paying off credit card and loan debt at 1000 per month which will be cleared in full by dec 2012 (idiocy on my part that I only started clearing that off now) and with our current savings plan we should have 60k in savings also by dec 2012. We intend to apply in jan 2013 for self build of 300k on site we have been gifted (site is 1.5 acres and never been valued so with planning permission I reckon it's worth 25k conservatively). Am I being realistic in my expectations for mortgage or should i look to save more please. Appreciate any help with this, cheers. (will be recommending this forum page to all as it is a great help with a stressful issue)0 -
Apologies forgot to add I'm 33 and my partner is 310
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Hi Killers1, I wonder would you mind giving me a bit of advice.
Me and my patner are both 22 yrs of age and are looking into gettting a self build mortgage.
We are hoping to purchase land from a friend of my partners father at a low rate (approx 15-20k).
Jointly we earn approx 43k per annum. We both live at home so pay no rent. We have savings of €5000 so far (saving €500 monthly) and my partner was made redunandat but went straight into full time employment with a different company, so we also have some of his rundandancy to put towards savings.
I have a loan with credit union of 2k and his loan is 4k.
We reckon we will need approx €180,000.
Do you think we have a good chance of been approved?
A close friend of ours will be doing the building and we also have a friend who is a carpenter and an electrician.
I am also wondering about stage payments. Would we be able to use money from the mortgage to complete the inside of the house, ie fixtures & fittings and furniture? We have included these in the amount we reckon we will need.
Any information you could supply me with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks A Mil
Hi fifiM,
Thanks for your message, I'll send you a PM later with some questions to allow me give you an accurate assessment of how you're fixed..thanks0 -
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Can i ask what is probably a very blonde question?
Is the amount needed for internal finishings i.e. fitted kitchen, flooring, white goods etc. incorporated in the amount of money you are aiming to borrow or is that deemed to be separate, especially when it comes to a self build mortgage?
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Can i ask what is probably a very blonde question?
Is the amount needed for internal finishings i.e. fitted kitchen, flooring, white goods etc. incorporated in the amount of money you are aiming to borrow or is that deemed to be separate, especially when it comes to a self build mortgage?
You can factor it in to the cost of the build so long as your loan to vale ratio on completion is within the banks policy and you qualify for the mortgage amount needed.0 -
Killers1 just wondering if I could ask for some advice on my situation for mortgage application, you seem to be giving great advice and it would be much appreciated! I have gone to the banks previously to discuss mortgages and all was very positive but have had a baby since and worry about the implication for our application.
We are hoping to borrow approx 160k for self build with fixed price contractor. Our situation; I'm 29, hubbie 30. I have a permanent job with approx 52k gross income, hubbie is a farmer although the farm has yet to be transferred to his name so has some earnings with other farmers and at home approx 15k gross - although I'm assuming any mortgage would be based purely on my income due to the adhoc nature of hubbies work. We have one dependent and approx 55k in savings, no personal loans or credit card debt. Just wondering if you have advice on what bank may be best approach? Thanks for your help.0 -
Killers1 just wondering if I could ask for some advice on my situation for mortgage application, you seem to be giving great advice and it would be much appreciated! I have gone to the banks previously to discuss mortgages and all was very positive but have had a baby since and worry about the implication for our application.
We are hoping to borrow approx 160k for self build with fixed price contractor. Our situation; I'm 29, hubbie 30. I have a permanent job with approx 52k gross income, hubbie is a farmer although the farm has yet to be transferred to his name so has some earnings with other farmers and at home approx 15k gross - although I'm assuming any mortgage would be based purely on my income due to the adhoc nature of hubbies work. We have one dependent and approx 55k in savings, no personal loans or credit card debt. Just wondering if you have advice on what bank may be best approach? Thanks for your help.
Once your combined savings/rent per month is in excess of €1k per month you'll qualify for the amount you need based on your sole income. I'd suggest going to a broker as opposed to dealing directly with a bank as self builds are complicated applications and you need to be sure you have someone experienced looking after the application for you.0 -
Thanks a million for that advice!!0
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Hi Killers1.
I'm new to this & notice no one has posted in a while but am wondering if you could give some advice??!
Looking to buy a site with boyfriend. Both parents will contribute to buy site for €65k & then we will apply for planning & mortgage.
Boyfriend has a property already in serious negative equity. He earns 65k. I'm loan free & earn 38k. We have combined savings of 25k. Do you have any idea how much we would qualify for? I'm 28, he's 31.
Also if we were to build a house for 180k & borrow that much the house would Prob be worth 250k plus on completion. Would the banks then allow us to re-mortgage so we can re-pay our parents the site pr0
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