RBs and breed traits.

Keela11

So, this might be a stupid question, but anyway. If it's true that we can say Huskies have bad recall or that JRTs are yappy is it not just as true that someone could say and RB (or any other breed) has a tendency to be aggressive?

Now, I've always been a fan of RBs but sometimes I get confused. If people are saying that they do not have these tendencies I get it, and even if they were more aggressive than "normal" dogs I still understand that it's the owners fault for not controlling them. However people often seem to say that you can't say a certain breed is agressive and other things to that effect yet whenever I read about a breed I will usually be given a list of traits, how can this work out? . Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

TooManyDogs

All dog breeds are going to have certain breed traits bred into them for their origional working purpose and they will be stronger or weaker in any particular individual of the breed. RBs will have breed traits specific to their breed or type too but there are very few breeds where aggression is actually one of their breed traits.

The dogs on the RB list are there because they are percieved by politicians/general public to be aggressive, not because they actually are or that it's in their breed to be aggressive. It's unfortunately lack of education on the law makers behalf.

Hellrazer

I really dont think theres such a thing as a bad dog--Its more down to a bad owner in my opinion.

Take for example the 2 breeds you mentioned.

I had a husky that had excellent recall and a JRT that was quiet as a mouse.

Ive met Rotties that were better with kids than some labs.

The only dog that ever bit me aggressively for no reason whatsoever was a Westie.

Even among the same breed there are complete differences in personality.

I had a Great Dane cross that jumped through a window to get at another dog and had to be PTS but his brother was a big softie and had no such issues.

The whole RB thing is really a load of crap in my opinion.

evilmonkee

TooManyDogs wrote: »

The dogs on the RB list are there because they are percieved by politicians/general public to be aggressive, not because they actually are or that it's in their breed to be aggressive. It's unfortunately lack of education on the law makers behalf.

Staffie's are supposedly human aggressive, hence why they are on the RB list.....

They have never been bred for this, and have extremely rarely exhibited human aggression.

A breed characteristic of staffies is their fantastic nature with humans, especially children.

QED.
wikipedia on Staffies

TooManyDogs

evilmonkee wrote: »

Staffie's are supposedly human aggressive, hence why they are on the RB list.....

They have never been bred for this, and have extremely rarely exhibited human aggression.

A breed characteristic of staffies is their fantastic nature with humans, especially children.

That's the thing though, the dogs on the RB list are there cos they're supposedly aggressive, not cos they are. Staffies are one of 2 (?) breeds that has written in their breed standard "must be good with children".

Public perception and idiots with dogs have a lot to answer for

The Sweeper

It would be my view that with bull breeds (and specifically pit bull types and staffordshire bull terriers) the one thing you need to ensure is that your dog is extremely well socialised with other dogs from a young age. That is very different to getting two dogs and leaving them at home all day to keep each other company (in which case, when they get out, you have two poorly socialised dogs running riot and egging each other on).

Bull breed types are frequently rude and lacking in social niceties when it comes to other dogs - especially pitbull types. However there are many other dogs with similar traits - to name two, I think boxers and labradors between the ages of six and 18 months are bloody warfare waiting to happen at dog parks and in poorly controlled situations. You know the behaviour - go in head first at the other dog, hackles sometimes up, get too close too soon, and then the 'play with me' overture is for them to actually jump on the other dog (as opposed to doing a play bounce at a distance where they drop their front legs and stick their bum in the air, waggling).

However, this is where deed not breed and nurture not nature come in - if you socialise your dog well with many, many other dogs, sights, sounds and so on, they'll develop into a good canine citizen and you won't have to worry about it.

The other reference to bull breeds that saddens me is the 'lockjaw' myth. No bull breed dog has a locking mechanism that means their jaws clamp shut. What they have is terrier tenacity. They're pit bull TERRIERS and staffordshire bull TERRIERS. The same drive and tenacity that means you can pick a jack russell up clear of the ground by the tennis ball he refuses to let go of, that same tenacity causes some bull terriers to have a very persistent bite. That's all it is though, tenacity - not some voodoo deathgrip.

Dogs are bred for characteristics and tendencies, and yes, breeds should have those characteristics and tendencies. But not every example of the breed will have them to such a strong degree that you need to be concerned about it - which is why not every german shepherd has the makings of a police dog and not every labrador has the makings of a guide dog. Tens of thousands of greyhounds a year are crap at racing and are killed because of it. There are legions of failed gundogs, rubbish pointers and resource-guarding retrievers out there.

Similarly, not every dog bred as a fighting dog is automatically so game for a scrap that it cannot be redeemed - and there isn't a single fighting dog that was bred to be aggressive to humans. So yes, the RB list is a crock of crap.

Shanao

Staffies and pitbulls specifically have always been good with kids. Akitas were bred as hunters of boar and bear, and were often used to guard the children at home in japan while the parents went out. The parents could be assured that their children would be perfectly fine under the supervision of the family pet. All of the 'fighting dogs' were bred for dog aggression but any that were human aggressive were culled. What would be the point of having a dog for fighting if it turned on its owner?

The thing is, if all the dog fighters/thugs decided tomorrow that they would get great danes, its a definite that they would ruin another breed and help add it to the restricted breed list. A great dane could do a hell of a lot more damage than a pitbull

evilmonkee

TooManyDogs wrote: »

That's the thing though, the dogs on the RB list are there cos they're supposedly aggressive, not cos they are. Staffies are one of 2 (?) breeds that has written in their breed standard "must be good with children".

Public perception and idiots with dogs have a lot to answer for

Just in case we get our wires crossed. I was agreeing with you!:D

TooManyDogs

Yeah figured we were on the same page alright

The RB list just frustrates the hell out of me, I've a pain in my behind with people telling me "no smoke without fire", "sure they're devil dogs" or one of my personal favourites "staffies are just gorgeous, but rotties are really aggressive, you couldn't trust one of them" :eek:

I try to show how ridiculous the RB list is by pointing out if I were a law abiding citizen I should have my Wiley muzzled, they laugh cos she looks like this



More Muppet Show than anything else but still half GSD so by law should be muzzled. They keep saying to me "but she's not aggressive!" EXACTLY!!!! But she's still covered by this ridiculous law. Inevitably they come back around to "but what about those pitbulls......" at which point I need to walk away before I smack them.

The ramifications of this law creep in everywhere. Talk to any rescue and ask them how they get on rehoming dogs that are on the RB list and they'll tell you how hard it is. Even if you get people to look twice at them you then have to explain the law to them so they're fully aware and half of them don't want the hassle and constant explainations to idiot members of society, so choose an 'easier' breed of dog.

So so so so frustrating

Zapperzy

TooManyDogs what other breed is in Wiley do you know? His ears are amazing!

TooManyDogs

Zapperzy wrote: »

TooManyDogs what other breed is in Wiley do you know? His ears are amazing!

Springer spaniel would you believe!

evilmonkee

TooManyDogs wrote: »

The RB list just frustrates the hell out of me, I've a pain in my behind with people telling me "no smoke without fire", "sure they're devil dogs" .....
The ramifications of this law creep in everywhere. Talk to any rescue and ask them how they get on rehoming dogs that are on the RB list and they'll tell you how hard it is.

When we went to adopt a staffie x, the rescue said the exact same as you have above! It's horrid to see beautiful, kind animals being passed over because of some mis-conception.

Here's our little Devil dog... No doubt dreaming up some evil scheme

DamagedTrax

heres my devil dog - 5 minutes later she sprinkled salt & vinegar on my son and ate him

LucyBliss

evilmonkee wrote: »

When we went to adopt a staffie x, the rescue said the exact same as you have above! It's horrid to see beautiful, kind animals being passed over because of some mis-conception.

Here's our little Devil dog... No doubt dreaming up some evil scheme

Well, quite clearly your dog coerced you into providing a comfy bed and pillow near the radiator in order to build a Lair of Doom! You never stood a chance!

Seriously though, that's one of the cutest pictures I've ever seen.