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Sunday drivers on the N17

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  • 25-02-2012 3:45am
    #1
    gammygils
    Registered Users Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭


    What's the story on the N17 lately? The speed limit is 100 kph. Why do people insist on doing 60 kph or less. This is most frustrating and dangerous.I have nothing against safe drivers but what you are doing is anything but safe. Please pull in on the hard shoulder every now and then & let off the 19 or so cars that are piled up behind you!


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    #2
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Calm down dear, you'll do yourself a mischief.

    100 kph is a speed LIMIT not a TARGET speed.

    Driving on the hard-shoulder is illegal.


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    #3
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    Driving at 60 kph in the hard shoulder is an accident waiting to happen:mad:


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    #4
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    I noticed that myself one evening while driving from Tuam to Galway. The limit was 100km and the traffic was moving at 60km or less. I was annoyed to find out there was not slow moving vehicles (i.e tractors) on the road or road works along the 30km stretch of road to cause such tail backs.


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    #5
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    I have often been caught behind cars doing 30 MPH and less with nothing in front of them. Most annoying.


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    #6
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    mathepac wrote: »
    Calm down dear, you'll do yourself a mischief.

    100 kph is a speed LIMIT not a TARGET speed.

    Driving on the hard-shoulder is illegal.
    planetX wrote: »
    Driving at 60 kph in the hard shoulder is an accident waiting to happen:mad:

    Pulling in at the speed you are doing and letting cars behind overtake does not equate to driving on the hard shoulder as long as you indicate back onto the carriageway in good time after the cars have overtaken...

    What do ye actually think the hard shoulder is for ?

    Did they just build them for the fun of it ?


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    #7
    dvae
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭dvae


    perhaps the fact that petrol is almost 70 cent more than it was two years ago may cause some to drive a bit slower.


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    #8
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    charlemont wrote: »
    Pulling in at the speed you are doing and letting cars behind overtake does not equate to driving on the hard shoulder as long as you indicate back onto the carriageway in good time after the cars have overtaken...
    And there was I thinking that indicating and changing direction onto the hard shoulder and travelling some distance on it before indicating and pulling onto the main carriageway again described driving on the hard shoulder. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I must amend my copy of the RSA's ROTR.
    charlemont wrote: »
    ... What do ye actually think the hard shoulder is for ? ...
    Stopping on so as not to block the carriageway, pedestrian use where there is no pavement and so on. More to the point, given my infallibly correct answers, what do you think it's for? A fleadh cheoil, a Chris Rea song "The Road to Tuam Hell", a drunk donkey on his way from Cashelgar of a fair day .... ?
    charlemont wrote: »
    ... Did they just build them for the fun of it ?
    No there was lots on money in buildin' 'em boss, EU money mostly which is why in some places, the hard showldher is bigger nor the road, boss, innit?


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    #9
    confuseddotcom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭confuseddotcom


    A Fleadh Ceoil pmsl!!!! :D:D Someone get onto the Sawdoctors!!! ;):D


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    #10
    gammygils
    Registered Users Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭gammygils


    If these people think they're saving money on petrol by doing 60kph they're gravely mistaken. Meaning they should be driving in 4th gear.If they're driving in 5th gear at that speed they're only labouring their engine. That's not good


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    #11
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    charlemont wrote: »
    Pulling in at the speed you are doing and letting cars behind overtake does not equate to driving on the hard shoulder as long as you indicate back onto the carriageway in good time after the cars have overtaken...

    What do ye actually think the hard shoulder is for ?

    Did they just build them for the fun of it ?

    Its other name is the breakdown lane - that should give you a clue.


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    #12
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    gammygils wrote: »
    Please pull in on the hard shoulder every now and then & let off the 19 or so cars that are piled up behind you!
    This is what they do in a lot of other countries, it keeps traffic flowing and keeps fast cars away from slow cars, but Irish people are far too holier than thou to allow anyone to do anything that's not the same as what their doing.

    Driving into Galway is a pain because of these inept drivers, if you can't do the speed limit on the Galway road then there's something wrong with your ability to drive.

    I don't mind so much a tractor holding up traffic as in most cases their not and are doing the best they can. It's the gobshytes behind them that drive right up the hole of the tractor and are more than happy to sit there while the tractors pulled in on the hard shoulder waiting for them to pass but they just won't over take. I saw this at it's worst last week when a line of 30 cars was stuck behind a tractor because a few terrible drivers wouldn't overtake encouraging dangerous driving from the cars further back.

    Driving slow is illegal in other countries, there's too big of a difference in speed on Irish roads.


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    #13
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    ScumLord wrote: »
    ... Driving into Galway is a pain because of these inept drivers, if you can't do the speed limit on the Galway road then there's something wrong with your ability to drive. ...
    Clearly you don't understand the concept of a SPEED LIMIT, so for me it begs the question as to who is actually inept.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    ... Driving slow is illegal in other countries, there's too big of a difference in speed on Irish roads.
    Driving slowly is not illegal here as the only roads with minimum speed limits are motorways, so if driving conditions in other countries suit you maybe you could agitate the RSA / Guards / Local Authorities to copy these practices; Galway - Hell Tuam an unrestricted autobahn next year, Sham?. In the meantime drive safely and keep under the SPEED LIMITS.


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    #14
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    mathepac wrote: »
    And there was I thinking that indicating and changing direction onto the hard shoulder and travelling some distance on it before indicating and pulling onto the main carriageway again described driving on the hard shoulder. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I must amend my copy of the RSA's ROTR.
    Stopping on so as not to block the carriageway, pedestrian use where there is no pavement and so on. More to the point, given my infallibly correct answers, what do you think it's for? A fleadh cheoil, a Chris Rea song "The Road to Tuam Hell", a drunk donkey on his way from Cashelgar of a fair day .... ?
    No there was lots on money in buildin' 'em boss, EU money mostly which is why in some places, the hard showldher is bigger nor the road, boss, innit?
    planetX wrote: »
    Its other name is the breakdown lane - that should give you a clue.

    So what would either of ye two crawlers do if an emergency vehicle is behind ye wanting to overtake ? Its pricks like your good selfs that help create road rage.


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    #15
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    mathepac wrote: »
    Clearly you don't understand the concept of a SPEED LIMIT, so for me it begs the question as to who is actually inept.
    I understand it's a limit but it's not a limit that's beyond the capabilities of cars or that particular road. There's no reason why people can't stay up near the limit. 100kph is not fast on a straight wide road like the N17, if you can't stay up near the speed the majority of drivers are doing then your simply in the way and causing an obstruction.

    Driving slowly is not illegal here as the only roads with minimum speed limits are motorways, so if driving conditions in other countries suit you maybe you could agitate the RSA / Guards / Local Authorities to copy these practices; Galway - Hell Tuam an unrestricted autobahn next year, Sham?. In the meantime drive safely and keep under the SPEED LIMITS.
    Every road in the Netherlands has an upper and lower speed limit so that everyone using them is doing more or less the same speed which is safer.


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    #16
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    ScumLord wrote: »
    ... 100kph is not fast on a straight wide road like the N17, if you can't stay up near the speed the majority of drivers are doing then your simply in the way and causing an obstruction. ...
    Well that all depends. If there's a long queue of traffic all travelling at 100kph and observing the recommended gap from the car in front then the last car is going to be in Carndonagh and get to Galway about Tuesday fortnight.

    If on the other hand, all the cars travel at say 60/70kph they can close the gap a bit and get to Salthill for ceol agus craic go leor, go bhoire Dia orainn go leir, before race-week is over.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    ...
    Every road in the Netherlands has an upper and lower speed limit so that everyone using them is doing more or less the same speed which is safer.
    Why are you telling me about it? Personally I don't care what they do in the Netherlands and don't want any changes. Why not get a FaceTube / YouBook campaign going to change our road-traffic laws and contact a few people who might influence or facilitate those changes?

    Sin a bhfuil de cursai spoirt anocht a dhuine uaisle, oiche mhait.


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    #17
    confuseddotcom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭confuseddotcom


    In fairness you are expected (obliged?) to keep up with the average general flow of the traffic, but that all depends on any one person's definition/understanding of average. Just because someone is doing 100 does it mean everyone has to? That sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I usually drive at around 80 or so, if I realize I'd gone up to 100 I'd drop back as I just wouldn't be a fan of driving all the time at top speed as is my choice, like I think I drive fast, - if people are over-taking me they must be doing well-over but that's a story for another day. Like others have said, it's not a target speed to reach, I assume some / a minority are going to be hitting top speed for their own kicks that's obviously hardly safe either. But, thinking about it it begs the question, - what the heck is it there for ......

    I used to find people driving up my boot absolutely appalling and frightening, but it's up to them if they want to choose to over-take dangerously and put people at risk. Just because someone else wants to drive faster they shouldn't make another driver feel intimidated on the road they have a right to be on.

    I do reckon there are far too many people over-taking on grids and islands and stuff though where they shouldn't be, that needs to be stopped.


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    #18
    Some12
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Some12


    What we need in Galway, particulary for the N17 leaving Tuam to Galway, is a DART system...

    Every driver is armed with some darts. If some driver is holding up the general flow of traffic by driving like a snail, other drivers fire a DART into their car.

    When the Gardai see a car driving down the road with 5-6 DARTS fired into their cars, they pull them over and give them a fine for being a feckin jerk.

    I'd run out of DARTS on a daily basis...:D


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    #19
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    charlemont wrote: »
    So what would either of ye two crawlers do if an emergency vehicle is behind ye wanting to overtake ? Its pricks like your good selfs that help create road rage.

    charlemont banned for 2 weeks for insulting other forum members.


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    #20
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    mathepac wrote: »
    Well that all depends. If there's a long queue of traffic all travelling at 100kph and observing the recommended gap from the car in front then the last car is going to be in Carndonagh and get to Galway about Tuesday fortnight.

    If on the other hand, all the cars travel at say 60/70kph they can close the gap a bit and get to Salthill for ceol agus craic go leor, go bhoire Dia orainn go leir, before race-week is over.
    How is the car doing 60kph going to get there faster than the car doing 100kph?
    Why are you telling me about it?
    Because it's an example of a better system, Ireland has a terrible road record why would you want it to stay the same?
    confuseddotcom wrote: »
    Just because someone is doing 100 does it mean everyone has to?
    They really should though, if every ones doing the same of at least similar speed there is less chance of an accident as there's less over taking and less tailgating because the car in front is holding up the car behind.
    That sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I usually drive at around 80 or so, if I realize I'd gone up to 100 I'd drop back as I just wouldn't be a fan of driving all the time at top speed
    100 isn't top speed, it's a speed limit that's been there for generations and introduced for a completely different type of car.
    like I think I drive fast,
    Well you don't.


    Just because someone else wants to drive faster they shouldn't make another driver feel intimidated on the road they have a right to be on.
    But I'd argue that just because you want to drive to slow you shouldn't get to dictate that speed on everyone else that's more than capable of driving faster.
    I do reckon there are far too many people over-taking on grids and islands and stuff though where they shouldn't be, that needs to be stopped.
    I'd agree, I do my best obey the road markings and town limits but sometimes you'll get stuck behind someone that should have really taken a bike instead of the car and you'll just lose patients and overtake when you can to avoid having another 15 minutes added to your journey.


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    #21
    Webbs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Webbs


    Because it's an example of a better system, Ireland has a terrible road record why would you want it to stay the same?

    Ireland has a terrible road record as drivers invariably go faster than road conditions dictate. (The conditions of the road is a whole different debate)


    100 isn't top speed, it's a speed limit that's been there for generations and introduced for a completely different type of car.

    Its not the car thats the problem its the drivers who think they can go at 120km/hr+ because they have a car that they think can handle all conditions. Its the same as a gun is not dangerous at all - until you put it into someones hand!

    But I'd argue that just because you want to drive to slow you shouldn't get to dictate that speed on everyone else that's more than capable of driving faster.

    Why should you dictate to someone who wants to drive 10km/hr below the speed limit in a safe manner


    I'd agree, I do my best obey the road markings and town limits but sometimes you'll get stuck behind someone that should have really taken a bike instead of the car and you'll just lose patients and overtake when you can to avoid having another 15 minutes added to your journey.

    You may think its adding 15mins to your journey, but I have lost count of the number of drivers (idiots) who overtake and race away at 120km/hr+ only to catch up with them at the next traffic lights gaining them oh maybe 2 secs


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    #22
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Webbs wrote: »
    Why should you dictate to someone who wants to drive 10km/hr below the speed limit in a safe manner
    It's not a dictation it's a majority ruling. When one person holds up a cue of 30 or more cars They're dictating what everyone on the road does. If they really insist on driving so much slower than everyone else pull in and let the rest by like other slow moving vehicles do.


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    #23
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's not a dictation it's a majority ruling...
    They're only seemed to two or three in favour of the "hurry up" notion, one was infarcted. That only leaves one or two and the rest against, which doesn't sound like much of a majority to me. I reckon it's pretty much the same on the roads.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    ... When one person holds up a cue of 30 or more cars They're dictating what everyone on the road does. ...
    Ah now I know what car-pool means.

    When driving on the road legally and within the speed limit, I'm dictating nothing in relation to others' behaviour, nor am I responsible for it.

    Q: "Can you explain to me why you tried overtaking a line of six cars outside CocaCola?"

    A: "They made me do it boss, they were all travelling at ony 65kph and the speed limit is 80kph along dere. It's not me fault boss. I loves me car, but she needs to stretch her horses an' tings from time to time like. It's her constitutional right boss, righ?"
    ScumLord wrote: »
    ... They're dictating what everyone on the road does. If they really insist on driving so much slower than everyone else pull in and let the rest by like other slow moving vehicles do.
    Nah that's the persecution complex / insecurity thing surfacing. It was first noticed amongst the drivers of Micras and Civics but it's now evident in the drivers of other marques and is reckoned to be traceable to a virus first detected in furry pink dice sold by Halfords.


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    #24
    BESman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 563 ✭✭✭BESman


    mathepac wrote: »
    They're only seemed to two or three in favour of the "hurry up" notion, one was infarcted.

    *There

    *Infracted
    mathepac wrote: »
    When driving on the road legally and within the speed limit, I'm dictating nothing in relation to others' behaviour, nor am I responsible for it.

    When travelling at a speed that is materially lower than the limit, which for argument's sake is say 10% of the limit, then you are forcing the vehicle behind you to also drive at a speed which is materially lower than the speed they are legally within their rights to travel at. If you are unable to drive at the limit the road is deemed suitable for, then why should the vehicle behind you, which is capable of driving at that speed, be forced to travel at your speed? One of the basic rules of the road is to maintain progress. Driving as much as 20km/h below the speed limit is stretching this rule.
    mathepac wrote: »
    A: "They made me do it boss, they were all travelling at ony 65kph and the speed limit is 80kph along dere. It's not me fault boss. I loves me car, but she needs to stretch her horses an' tings from time to time like. It's her constitutional right boss, righ?"

    Relevance of traveller dialect in this context? Hilarious stuff though, real high brow humour.


    I like facts. Here are some facts:

    1. I don't speed.
    2. I do not condone speeding.
    3. Speed kills.
    4. Each road in Ireland undergoes an assessment by the Department of Transport and is assigned one of five different categories - (i) town & city [30km/h]; (ii) national road [100km/h]; (iii) regional & local road [80km/h]; (iv) motorway [120km/h]; (v) special limit [30km/h or 60km/h].
    5. This speed limit is chosen as the most suitable given the conditions of the road.

    I understand that not everyone will wish to drive at the speed limit, not everyone has the perfect skills, vision, ability to think quickly, good reflexes and ability to react to unexpected situations. Not everyone has a place they actually need to be at a certain time, like a job perhaps, and can afford to drive at a leisurely pace. Therefore, I am quite happy to drive behind a vehicle at 90km/h in a 100km/h zone. It is when it drops below this level that I believe it becomes unnecessarily slow and even dangerous. The Department of Transport has decided that it is within the legal limit to travel on a national road at 100km/h and they would not have arrived at this decision if they did not believe it was a safe speed for that type of road. In most cases, I can safely overtake slower vehicles, so doesn't mean much to me either way.

    I do think its extremely dangerous when vehicles travel below the limit on a motorway. This usually isn't a problem due to a fast lane, but when motorways become congested it can cause serious accidents. Being slow isn't always right or safe.


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    #25
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    BESman wrote: »
    ... I like facts. Here are some facts:..
    I loves facts so I do.

    No 1: There is no such thing as a "fast-lane" on any road in this country. If you can produce evidence from the RSA's ROTR document of the occurance of the words "fast-lane" or "fastlane" or even "fast lane" I'll eat my Porsche in one sitting for you.

    Some drivers in this country seem to think that the extreme right-hand lane on a motorway or dual carriageway is a "fast-lane" and it's their god-given right to hang out there at all costs. The reality is that these are overtaking lanes and you are obliged to "move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by" (page 122 ROTR 2007 edition).

    No. 2: "The Department of Transport has decided that it is within the legal limit to travel on a national road at 100km/h and they would not have arrived at this decision if they did not believe it was a safe speed for that type of road."

    The reality is of course that that this is incorrect. It is the driver's responsibility to assess, amongst other things:

    "... driving conditions
    other users of the road
    current weather conditions
    all possible hazards and
    speed limits.

    Driving conditions relate to the volume of traffic around you and the quality of the road." (page 87 ROTR 2007 edition).

    Your post is short on facts, but to help I offer the following reference in the same document:

    Page 87: "keeping pace" very relevant to these discussions
    Page 169: "Respecting other road users"


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    #26
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Folks, can we keep this on topic for Galway County?

    If you want to discuss general driving issues, take it to Motoring.


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    #27
    BESman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 563 ✭✭✭BESman


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    Folks, can we keep this on topic for Galway County?

    If you want to discuss general driving issues, take it to Motoring.

    Just want to respond to the last post and then I'm finished with the thread as you are correct, it has nothing to do with Galway County as this stage. I hope this does not constitute grounds for an infraction.

    mathepac wrote: »
    I loves facts so I do.

    No 1: There is no such thing as a "fast-lane" on any road in this country. If you can produce evidence from the RSA's ROTR document of the occurance of the words "fast-lane" or "fastlane" or even "fast lane" I'll eat my Porsche in one sitting for you.

    Some drivers in this country seem to think that the extreme right-hand lane on a motorway or dual carriageway is a "fast-lane" and it's their god-given right to hang out there at all costs. The reality is that these are overtaking lanes and you are obliged to "move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by" (page 122 ROTR 2007 edition).

    I think this is tangential to my point but I agree with what you are saying. Its simply bad driving to stay on the right hand lane unless you are over-taking and I never suggested this in my post. Your point does not address the fact that a slow moving vehicle on a motorway is dangerous if it were not for the right hand lane. Freudian slip on my part by referring to it as a "fast-lane".
    mathepac wrote: »
    No. 2: "The Department of Transport has decided that it is within the legal limit to travel on a national road at 100km/h and they would not have arrived at this decision if they did not believe it was a safe speed for that type of road."

    The reality is of course that that this is incorrect.

    So you know better than the Department of Transport? Are they wrong on their allocation of speed limits? How is any of that point incorrect?
    mathepac wrote: »
    It is the driver's responsibility to assess, amongst other things:

    "... driving conditions
    other users of the road
    current weather conditions
    all possible hazards and
    speed limits.

    Driving conditions relate to the volume of traffic around you and the quality of the road." (page 87 ROTR 2007 edition).

    Obvious post is obvious. Does not change the fact that provided the conditions allow for safe travel at 100km/h, some drivers will still choose to travel at speed far less than this, unnecessarily.
    mathepac wrote: »
    Your post is short on facts, but to help I offer the following reference in the same document:

    Page 87: "keeping pace" very relevant to these discussions
    Page 169: "Respecting other road users"

    What point are you making here? I referred to making progress, the exact same as keeping pace. None of my points or recommendations referred to disrespecting other road users. Referring to the actual page numbers in the document does not make your points any more factual.


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    #28
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    BESman wrote: »
    Just want to respond to the last post and then I'm finished with the thread as you are correct, it has nothing to do with Galway County as this stage.

    You should have taken it to PM
    I hope this does not constitute grounds for an infraction.

    Knowingly ignoring an on thread mod instruction? Yes it does.


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    #29
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Locked

    If anyone has a problem, PM me.


This discussion has been closed.
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