Three could buy O2 ireland?

cookie1977

Anyone see today's Sunday Independent? How likely would this be to happen? Certainly O2 are under performing at present but would Telefonica be willing to sell them?
http://www.independent.ie/business/world/hutch-is-eyeing-up-o2s-800m-irish-business-3031963.html

Ghandee

Best thing I ever did was ditch O2 for 3 tbh.

My monthly bills went from 250-300 per month to 95-120.

Can roam in ANY country with a three network, (was in Italy last summer for a week) with no roaming charges, this includes making/receiving calls, and using mobile Web.

Also, they let me call UK landlines AND mobiles from my monthly minute bundle.

Of course there will be a barrage of folk coming to derail this thread to claim of shoddy c/c based in India, and 3G Coverage issues, but let me tell you, as a man whose job takes him will over Ireland, rural and cities/Towns I can whole heartedly say I never ever experience any problems (especially network coverage)

O2 if your struggling, i've zero sympathy for you, you evolved into one of the most cash hungry, price gouging, non compromising companies Ireland had.

A far as i'm concerned. Good riddance.

cookie1977

It's still all speculation at present but it is also known that Hutchison Whampoa are interested in some of the Irish state owned assets that could go up for sale. So they definitely see a future in Ireland. Three has also done deals with BT Ireland to enhance network services so they too see a future. The sale would probably not fall foul of any monopoly legislation either since Three's customer base is so small and O2 are only the second largest network in the country. The two could benefit from each other. Three's pricing is excellent conpared with O2's and O2's customer services is better then Three's currently is (at least in the minds of most). Interesting to see how this develops.

vicM

Think this would be bad for customers. Three would now become arguably bigger than Vodafone and I think thier policy of competitive pricing would go out of the window. Im also with Tesco now and I think the tesco deal would be in Jeopardy. I think O2 has the best Network currently in terms of up-to-date technologies and coverage

My ideal scenario would be UPC buying O2

Owen

I moved from o2 Billpay after 8 years to Three. Pretty happy so far, with the same usage, what o2 charged me 70 Euro for, I have for 20 with Three. That makes a huge difference to my wallet.

cookie1977

The tesco deal is done and dusted and any party buying O2 would have to accept the deal. Sure if and when it comes up for renewal then maybe three might say no but why would they if they're making money from it.

I wouldn't agree that O2 have the best network as their recent 3G troubles have shown but yes I too would love to see UPC or BT Ireland take a punt on O2 and buy it.

vicM

cookie1977 wrote: »

The tesco deal is done and dusted and any party buying O2 would have to accept the deal. Sure if and when it comes up for renewal then maybe three might say no but why would they if they're making money from it.

I wouldn't agree that O2 have the best network as their recent 3G troubles have shown but yes I too would love to see UPC or BT Ireland take a punt on O2 and buy it.

Didnt hear about thier 3G woes but I used them before and they had consistent 3G speeds and atleast edge unlike vodafone who didnt have edge. Can just never understand thier pricing and data allowances.
Just imagine if they even tried to compete in price, three would have found it harder to get customers esp. billpay. Now they are bleeding customers and to get them back will be near impossible

cookie1977

I was with O2 for 14 years and always found them the best quality and value network but in the space of a year or two they erroded that and went to what I consider to be the most expensive network in the country bar non. And it seems people are starting to think that now with them being probably the only network to be loosing customers (albeit at a slow rate) quarter on quarter. Still puzzles me though how they managed to gain contract customers last year?? Comreg's figures for the networks should be out soon and will probably indicate such. BT Ireland used to own O2 and maybe they'd be interested in buying them back again. Total speculation there on my part but either way I think O2 does need a radical shift in it's business model.

drunkmonkey

cookie1977 wrote: »

Still puzzles me though how they managed to gain contract customers last year??

Student Broadband and mobile broadband broadband is fluffing the figures. There loosing mobile phone customers.

o2 & Meteor are up for grabs, I don't know which 3 would rather but with the spectrum auctions coming up both will be sold before then.
What could happen and I hope it doesn't is Voda buy 3. This spectrum auction isn't going to leave any prisoners. It's a lot of money and only those serious about Ireland will stay.

cookie1977

The 3% quoted is only mobile contracts. Narrowband customer growth was actually 115% (which as you say does swell some of their numbers)
http://pressoffice.telefonica.com/documentos/nprensa/TEF_Europe_Q4_2011_Financials_Final_0.pdf

Vodafone won't buy 3 as it's not for sale and Vodafone wouldn't be allowed to by O2 or meteor due to it being a possible monopoly which the TCA would block http://www.tca.ie/

JTMan

Competition needs to be preserved. 3 have really pushed competition in the mobile sphere in recent years and given other operators a high benchmark and a run for their money. It would be sad if 3 merged with any of the other 3 incumbents.

I don't accept the view that 3's low sub 7% market share should preclude authorities competition concerns. One just has to look at the correct view, that the FCC, took of the proposed acquisition of small player T-Mobile USA by AT&T for precedent.

The shocking announcement, last week, that Virgin Mobile are entering the UK 4G auction could encourage UPC to purchase O2 or Meteor if they are to pursue a similar 'spectrum ownership' strategy.

drunkmonkey

And that 3% contract growth was probably as a result of them flipping their pre pay customers to bill pay.

I wonder how it will could play out.

Will 3 become o2
Will o2 become 3

How will they brand it.

Who'll buy into Meteor. Which would you buy, o2 or Meteor? I reckon you'd get Meteor at a good price but would you get eMobile thrown in or would be stuck in competition with them as part of the meteor/emobile MVNO agreement, any idea how long that deal was done for?

I presume when you buy the network you don't buy the MVNO. So o2 would not include Tesco & 48.

JTMan

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I presume when you buy the network you don't buy the MVNO. So o2 would not include Tesco & 48.

48 is a wholly owned brand. Whoever buys Telefonica Ireland, buys 48 as well.

Tesco Mobile Ireland is 50% owned by Telefonica Ireland. Whoever buys Telefonica Ireland, buys 50% of Tesco Mobile Ireland as well.

drunkmonkey

How about eMobile? If IIRC Voda bought Ericell but as part of the deal there was a block for a certain amount of years on eircom having another mobile network. Am I only dreaming that?

cookie1977

At&t and T-Mobile had huge shares of the us market and rightly so the merger was blocked. Not the case here that I see. I'd prefer UPC and BT to enter the market. If three bough O2 they'd be Three as O2 still exists for telefonica. Three would honour the O2 -Tesco MVNO agreement until it came up again and then it's between Three and Tesco but I presume they'd sign up again if it were profitable. 48 months is wholey owned by O2 so they would just become part of the deal too.

cookie1977

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How about eMobile? If IIRC Voda bought Ericell but as part of the deal there was a block for a certain amount of years on eircom having another mobile network. Am I only dreaming that?

No thats's correct but I doubt a) eircom could afford O2 or b) the TCA would allow a merger.

JTMan

The Sunday Times today reports that Eircom "desperately needs 1 billion EUR".

There are very few ways Eircom can get 1 billion EUR other than selling Meteor/eMobile.

cookie1977

Fungus wrote: »

The Sunday Times today reports that Eircom "desperately needs 1 billion EUR".

There are very few ways Eircom can get 1 billion EUR other than selling Meteor/eMobile.

And they certainly wouldn't bring in 1billion euro considering O2's business is valued at 800 million euro

drunkmonkey

I doubt Eircom can afford a 4G licence let alone o2.

It's a tough decision for 3 if there thinking about it but they'd nearly have to go with the bigger customer base to really square up to Vodafone.

Eircom needs the cash and so does Telefonica, 3 need spectrum but could be bullied out if o2 and Meteor decide to go the distance but nether of them seem to have any interest in staying due to financial reasons.

drunkmonkey

Fungus wrote: »

The Sunday Times today reports that Eircom "desperately needs 1 billion EUR".

There are very few ways Eircom can get 1 billion EUR other than selling Meteor/eMobile.

The need more than 1 billion, ideally they need 3 bilion for the whole eircom group. Is it even worth a euro in it's current set up.

o2(Telefonica) need 56 billion, that a fair debt burden, anything non strategic will be sold off to reduce the cost of servicing that kind of debt.

o2 Made a pre tax profit of 6.75 million last year, I don't see how that values it at €800 million. You could be waiting a long time to get that money back.

Is the times article online?

AlmightyCushion

Ghandee wrote: »

Best thing I ever did was ditch O2 for 3 tbh.

My monthly bills went from 250-300 per month to 95-120.

Can roam in ANY country with a three network, (was in Italy last summer for a week) with no roaming charges, this includes making/receiving calls, and using mobile Web.

Also, they let me call UK landlines AND mobiles from my monthly minute bundle.

Of course there will be a barrage of folk coming to derail this thread to claim of shoddy c/c based in India, and 3G Coverage issues, but let me tell you, as a man whose job takes him will over Ireland, rural and cities/Towns I can whole heartedly say I never ever experience any problems (especially network coverage)

O2 if your struggling, i've zero sympathy for you, you evolved into one of the most cash hungry, price gouging, non compromising companies Ireland had.

A far as i'm concerned. Good riddance.

My dad was in a similar situation. He was paying over €300 a month with o2. I just happened to see his bill one day and nearly had a heart attack. He's with three now and his bill is about €100 a month.

Kristopherus

BT pulled out of the residential market for landlines a few years ago & Vodafone took up the slack, so I would'nt think they'll be overly interested. Eircom are on the precipice and could go either way. They are almost certain to offload Meteor or eMobile or both in the next year. We're years behind in terms of telephony infracture and Eircom will not be able to upgrade anytime soon. All in all a bad scenario. Hutchinson-Whompoa appear to have the necessary leverage to be able to afford O2 or Meteor/eMobile. Like others I'd prefer to see UPC take the plunge. There's every chance they would shake up the market.Just my 2 cents.

cookie1977

BT were forced to off load O2 due to monopoly issues. They're helping 3 with their infrastructure so they may be interested, you never know. A brand new player would be the best option for an O2 takeover as we're more likely to see some "new" moves.

ardmacha

Telefonica is a big international company. But they do not exploit this iwith O2, with little innovation in roaming compared to Three or Vodafone. Really good UK and Spanish roaming rates would be of interest to many people.

cookie1977

O2 had great roaming rates in the UK. You could use your minutes and texts there but about 2 years ago they scrapped it. Then initially extended it for a few months after there was some up roar but once that died down they cancelled it altogether.

Vahevala

I used to be with O2 many moons ago but left them for 3, to be honest, I wish I had done it earlier, they seem to have completely lost the focus for a long time. Now when I see O2 offering such measly data limits, it astonishes me. Smartphones are on the increase (I for one could not live without mine! )

I would love to see UPC enter the market.

the_syco

I use o2 for the local coverage, and the local 3G. 3G on Three is not meant to be the best in Leixlip, and as that's where I live and work, I stay with o2.

If Three bought o2, I'd wonder how much of an increase the price of doing business for Three would be, and if prices would stay low?

cookie1977

the_syco wrote: »

If Three bought o2, I'd wonder how much of an increase the price of doing business for Three would be, and if prices would stay low?

Well I'm speculation here but who ever buys O2 (even if Three did) would have to halt/reverse the loss of customers, and the only way to do this in my mind is to cut prices. I can't see anyone who buys O2 raising prices, at least in the short to medium term. It would be a little stupid.

Take UPC broadband for instance. In areas where they compete with other providers they still offer huge discounts compared with the competition (eircom) despite the fact that most customers would probably move to them if they could, even if prices were a little higher as they're so cheap (and offer so much more) then the eircom equivalent plans.

whatbuttons?

I used to work in the telecoms industry so I can give a little insight here I think to help the discussion - first of all BT Ireland are more than likely not going to be entering the consumer mobile space any time soon. They certainly don't do this in the UK (the Irish company, though separate, is still owned by the UK company) and as one other person pointed out - since they've sold the Residential Landline business to Vodafone they are completely uninterested in any consumer business in Ireland and are focussing on providing the networks wholesale to other providers. If I had any life savings I would be totally comfortable betting the whole lot that BT Ireland will not be buying O2.

cookie1977 wrote: »

Well I'm speculation here but who ever buys O2 (even if Three did) would have to halt/reverse the loss of customers, and the only way to do this in my mind is to cut prices. I can't see anyone who buys O2 raising prices

Secondly - knowing how these things go is paramount - if someone were to buy O2 what they are really buying is the customers - they get the brand as well but more than likely they won't want it. The customers and employees and assets of O2 would then be owned by whoever buys it, and the most likely thing to happen would be for the purchaser to immediately rebrand everything in their image and all their new customers would be immediately converted to one of their equivalent contracts.
If anyone was with BT Ireland when the business was sold (I know I was) then you'll remember what happened there - same thing.

cookie1977

whatbuttons? wrote: »

I used to work in the telecoms industry so I can give a little insight here I think to help the discussion - first of all BT Ireland are more than likely not going to be entering the consumer mobile space any time soon. They certainly don't do this in the UK (the Irish company, though separate, is still owned by the UK company) and as one other person pointed out - since they've sold the Residential Landline business to Vodafone they are completely uninterested in any consumer business in Ireland and are focussing on providing the networks wholesale to other providers. If I had any life savings I would be totally comfortable betting the whole lot that BT Ireland will not be buying O2.



Secondly - knowing how these things go is paramount - if someone were to buy O2 what they are really buying is the customers - they get the brand as well but more than likely they won't want it. The customers and employees and assets of O2 would then be owned by whoever buys it, and the most likely thing to happen would be for the purchaser to immediately rebrand everything in their image and all their new customers would be immediately converted to one of their equivalent contracts.
If anyone was with BT Ireland when the business was sold (I know I was) then you'll remember what happened there - same thing.

Who ever buys O2 Ireland wouldn't get the brand as O2 exists still in other countries and the "real" O2 wouldn't want to be connected with another O2 in case of reputational damage etc... So a brand change would be nigh in immediate just like Vodafone/BT was for their fixed line business

Re BT, It was idle speculation, just like this entire thread.

drunkmonkey

Without the brand they'd hardly get €800 million for it.