Three could buy O2 ireland?

cookie1977

RangeR wrote: »

They have two.

But do you sell meteor as an MVNO and keep the infrastructure for yourself as emobile or sell meteor and the infrastructure and make emobile an MVNO?

RangeR

I don't know the economics of keeping a physical mobile network but.... I'd keep the MVNO. Let someone else worry about the infrastructure and all the MVNO has to worry about is generating revenue

cookie1977

RangeR wrote: »

I don't know the economics of keeping a physical mobile network but.... I'd keep the MVNO. Let someone else worry about the infrastructure and all the MVNO has to worry about is generating revenue

Perhaps but the most profitable companies retain control of the infrastructure. Just look at eircom with it's strangle hold on phone lines.

bk

cookie1977 wrote: »

But do you sell meteor as an MVNO and keep the infrastructure for yourself as emobile or sell meteor and the infrastructure and make emobile an MVNO?

It would only be worth buying if you got the network.

Obviously they would expect to pay less if they don't get eMobile customers too.

But I think UPC would be quiet interested in just the network. They wouldn't be too bothered about not getting the eMobile contract customers as UPC have a strong enough brand and presence in Ireland to quickly gain contract customers via quad play bundles, so just getting Meteor customers and the network and paying slightly less for it might just suit them.

Meteor having a bad name and brand wouldn't bother them as they would quickly drop it for the UPC brand.

The only other potential bidders for the Meteor network that I can think of would be Vodafone (which I'd hate to see happen) and maybe Sky.

RangeR

cookie1977 wrote: »

Perhaps but the most profitable companies retain control of the infrastructure. Just look at eircom with it's strangle hold on phone lines.

And we know how that worked out. eircom ultimately lost that race because they had no forward thinking. They didn't their utmost to stifle competition; keep voice and dialup at all costs. Let's hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

Mobile voice/sms is doomed. It's business model is old, in the age of ubiquitous data. It must be embraced UNLESS all the networks cripple data allowances simultaneously. But that's the talk talk of Cartels and tantamount to price fixing; and that's just not allowed, Mr Regulator, is it?

The future is all services over data. I'm just curious how long it takes the networks to realise.

Edit : Oh yeah, there is also more than one national network...

SpaceTime

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's for sale alright, hence we have eMobile. Eircom have been actively putting their Meteor bill pay customers on eMobile so to leave all the crap and highly volatile customers on Meteor prepay.
Eircom were meant to be one of the bidders on o2, if that had of went through it's quite possible the regulators would have forced the sale of Meteor. Now Eircom have 2 network, 3 would have bough meteor but whether a new entrant is willing to take gamble on a pre pay network while eMobile remains under the control of eircom is yet to be seen.

That seems *extremely* unlikely. Eircom was desperate to get back into the mobile business which is why they bought Meteor and that's only a few years ago.

It's also one of the most profitable aspects of its business!

wexfordman2

RangeR wrote: »

They have two.

No they don't, they own one network, meteor, the other is just a brand, same as o2 and 48!

wexfordman2

SpaceTime wrote: »

That seems *extremely* unlikely. Eircom was desperate to get back into the mobile business which is why they bought Meteor and that's only a few years ago.

It's also one of the most profitable aspects of its business!

Absolutely

wexfordman2

bk wrote: »

It would only be worth buying if you got the network.

Obviously they would expect to pay less if they don't get eMobile customers too.

But I think UPC would be quiet interested in just the network. They wouldn't be too bothered about not getting the eMobile contract customers as UPC have a strong enough brand and presence in Ireland to quickly gain contract customers via quad play bundles, so just getting Meteor customers and the network and paying slightly less for it might just suit them.

Meteor having a bad name and brand wouldn't bother them as they would quickly drop it for the UPC brand.

The only other potential bidders for the Meteor network that I can think of would be Vodafone (which I'd hate to see happen) and maybe Sky.

I wouldn't say meteor have a bad name, in fact they gave fared pretty well as the 3rd entrant, and the network is actually quite good. They are also ploughing ahead with developing and growing the network

drunkmonkey

RangeR wrote: »

It must be embraced UNLESS all the networks cripple data allowances simultaneously. But that's the talk talk of Cartels and tantamount to price fixing; and that's just not allowed, Mr Regulator, is it?

Mmm...would you pay extra for 4G data as opposed to 2G/3G? See where i'm going with this...

RangeR

wexfordman2 wrote: »

No they don't, they own one network, meteor, the other is just a brand, same as o2 and 48!

No they have a physical network with physical infrastructure and they have a virtual network with "stuff". It's two networks, same as O2 and 48.

drunkmonkey

2 Eggs one cup

SpaceTime

EMobile's branding has echoes of eircell purple about it.

It was all about creating a brand that was 'heavy weight'

eircom is basically repositioning itself as a broadband (eFibre) and mobile (eMobile) company with a big infrastructure division and some legacy services (the PSTN)


Voice is being rebranded as eTalk and TV will probably be eTV.

I would suspect that meteor will become the subbrand maybe as the eMobile prepay brand.

From what I can see eMobile isn't even a fully separated MVNO either. Its just a brand. It seems to fully run on the exact same infrastructure.

They're definitely not sellinh anything!

The O2 sale has been flafged for some time though.

Telefonica is on dire financial straits at the moment with over 50bn in debt.

billbond4

Just thinking on the network side of things.
Three will hardly rollout a 4G network now, as they can use the O2 4G Network.
I guess that was a big saving for Three in the price they paid,as they effectively will have a 4G network soon and wouldnt have to pay Samsung to build a network for them.
Only a guess but time will tell.

bk

SpaceTime wrote: »

That seems *extremely* unlikely. Eircom was desperate to get back into the mobile business which is why they bought Meteor and that's only a few years ago.

It's also one of the most profitable aspects of its business!

They might not have an option, just like Telefonica didn't have an option.

Eircom having a very large debt and currently investing (i.e. spending) a lot of money on their VDSL rollout, they might be left with no choice but to sell the mobile network to pay for all this.

This is why they created eMobile in the first place, to allow them a continued foot in the mobile market if they were forced to sell the mobile network.

It is quiet obvious from the branding, eMobile, eFibre, eTalk, etc.

In the long term it is looking like a fibre network is move valuable then a wireless network. We are seeing mobile networks bleeding as people use less and less calls and texts and EU regulators eliminate roaming charges.

Basically the mobile market is facing viscous competition and likely a great deal of consolidation. Something a small operator like Eircom is likely to be able to resist.

A nice fibre network that acts as the backbone to wireless operators via wholesale and nice fixed broadband customers who have no other choice of operator, along with up-selling nice high margin TV services to them is looking like a much better long term business to be in then mobile.

So if forced, Eircom will likely choose continued investment in their fibre network and VDSL/TV triple play services, with a finger in the quad play market with eMobile as a MVNO, rather then keep meteor.

drunkmonkey

On the money there BK i'd say. Just to add there's nothing strategic about Meteor either, 3 and Vodafone are global telecoms players, Meteor is a single network from a little island in the atlantic, it's never going to grow much more than where it's at.

SpaceTime

It's all about triple / quad play though. International integration isn't really that important in many respects. Telefonica bought up loads of operations and managed to get no synergies from what i can see.

Eircom as a whole could be picked up by BT of Orange / FT, Deutsche Telekom, Telia-Sonora etc

wexfordman2

RangeR wrote: »

No they have a physical network with physical infrastructure and they have a virtual network with "stuff". It's two networks, same as O2 and 48.

Ahm, that's what I said!!

wexfordman2

billbond4 wrote: »

Just thinking on the network side of things.
Three will hardly rollout a 4G network now, as they can use the O2 4G Network.
I guess that was a big saving for Three in the price they paid,as they effectively will have a 4G network soon and wouldnt have to pay Samsung to build a network for them.
Only a guess but time will tell.

O2 don't have a 4g network yet, so time will tell. There is spectrum to hand back now probably as both were awarded in the last round, but obviously not needed now

SpaceTime

There's a lot of synergies between Eircom and Meteor though. As LTE becomes a major selling point having access to a huge fibre backbone suddenly become a huge strategic advantage!

wexfordman2

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's a lot of synergies between Eircom and Meteor though. As LTE becomes a major selling point having access to a huge fibre backbone suddenly become a huge strategic advantage!

Eircom are still heavily investing in meteor for u900 and lte, I can't see them divesting of it again, they already made that mistake selling eircell.

wexfordman2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

On the money there BK i'd say. Just to add there's nothing strategic about Meteor either, 3 and Vodafone are global telecoms players, Meteor is a single network from a little island in the atlantic, it's never going to grow much more than where it's at.

Again, eircom owning it's own infrastructure both fixed and mobile seems to be the preferred and best option for them, I don't see them selling either off separately.

If you look a bit further, the entire mobile network status is very complicated at the one t, and even more so after today's announcement.

Voda and 3 involved in a network sharing programme, and o2 in a similar one with meteor. What happens here is anyone's guess, it could result in either one of the two netshares comming to an end, or it could end up in a shifting around of chairs, or even full share of all three networks. Only time will tell

cookie1977

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's a lot of synergies between Eircom and Meteor though. As LTE becomes a major selling point having access to a huge fibre backbone suddenly become a huge strategic advantage!

That's true. Look how some mobile networks have linked up with BT due to it's fibre network, to support 4g back end systems

bk

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Again, eircom owning it's own infrastructure both fixed and mobile seems to be the preferred and best option for them, I don't see them selling either off separately.

Sure, Eircom might prefer not to sell their mobile arm, but with their debt currently standing at 2.3 billion and them currently investing €750 million in their fibre/VDSL rollout and likely need to spend another billion plus eventually to do fibre to the home, they may end up with no choice but to make a strategic decision to sell off parts of their business and focus on their core areas.

With the pressures that the mobile networks are coming under, it maybe better for them not to own a mobile network, but continue to own a MVNO so that they can continue to sell quad play services.

Owning a mobile network is looking increasingly risky. Owning a fixed network that you have a monopoly on the majority of end users and selling network access wholesale to other fixed operators (i.e. Sky, Magnet, Vodafone) and to mobile companies for backhaul, is looking like a much less risky business.

Look at BT for an example of what I'm talking about. They have very firmly followed this model and are doing very well from it.

The fact that Eircom continue to heavily invest in LTE etc. shouldn't indicate if they sell off or not. Such investment increases the value of the network if they do decide to sell it off.

Another company like Deutsche Telecom, BT, etc. might look to buy Eircom eventually, but even then they would likely want to sell off the mobile arm, as the risks inherit in that business just aren't worth it unless you have the scale of Vodafone, three, etc.

jimmynokia

wexfordman2 wrote: »

I wouldn't say meteor have a bad name, in fact they gave fared pretty well as the 3rd entrant, and the network is actually quite good. They are also ploughing ahead with developing and growing the network

Meteor/eircom apparently bought most of the old spectrum from RTE so this is interesting,it will be also interesting to see the prices for 4g this will be another factor for consumers to think about.
Some prices in the uk are madness.

Another thing now ive been asked too is the option to jump ship from O2, ie breach of contract.

RangeR

jimmynokia wrote: »

Another thing now ive been asked too is the option to jump ship from O2, ie breach of contract.

The amount of people that don't read their own contracts is phenomenal.

SpaceTime

It's very, very, very unlikely that they'd have any break clause in the contract where the company changed hands.

They'd have to change the contract in a way that disadvantages you before there's any right to cancel.


I'd imagine that your existing O2 or Three contact will remain in existence until the minimum term excpires.

RangeR

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's very, very, very unlikely that they'd have any break clause in the contract where the company changed hands.

They'd have to change the contract in a way that disadvantages you before there's any right to cancel.


I'd imagine that your existing O2 or Three contact will remain in existence until the minimum term excpires.

And to be fair, most people will have run their term before the wheels really start moving.

cookie1977

jimmynokia wrote: »

Meteor/eircom apparently bought most of the old spectrum from RTE so this is interesting,it will be also interesting to see the prices for 4g this will be another factor for consumers to think about.
Some prices in the uk are madness.

Another thing now ive been asked too is the option to jump ship from O2, ie breach of contract.

I thought vodafone bought the bulk of the old analogue signal? There's no breach of contract due to the take over unless 3 change the T&C's of existing plans.

rebel.ranter

bk wrote: »

Sure, Eircom might prefer not to sell their mobile arm, but with their debt currently standing at 2.3 billion and them currently investing €750 million in their fibre/VDSL rollout and likely need to spend another billion plus eventually to do fibre to the home, they may end up with no choice but to make a strategic decision to sell off parts of their business and focus on their core areas.

With the pressures that the mobile networks are coming under, it maybe better for them not to own a mobile network, but continue to own a MVNO so that they can continue to sell quad play services.

Owning a mobile network is looking increasingly risky. Owning a fixed network that you have a monopoly on the majority of end users and selling network access wholesale to other fixed operators (i.e. Sky, Magnet, Vodafone) and to mobile companies for backhaul, is looking like a much less risky business.

Look at BT for an example of what I'm talking about. They have very firmly followed this model and are doing very well from it.

The fact that Eircom continue to heavily invest in LTE etc. shouldn't indicate if they sell off or not. Such investment increases the value of the network if they do decide to sell it off.

Another company like Deutsche Telecom, BT, etc. might look to buy Eircom eventually, but even then they would likely want to sell off the mobile arm, as the risks inherit in that business just aren't worth it unless you have the scale of Vodafone, three, etc.

BT are tanking in the market place! They ousted their head man in Ireland only a few weeks ago because they had lost so many contracts.
eircom's (small e) debt is under control now & they have a plan for recovery. As you said they have a monopoly in the fixed line market place as well as a strong foothold on the fibre /wholesale back haul business. They have no need to sell their mobile arm. In fact eircom was one if the other potential buyers of O2 along with UPC.
Triple/Quad play & complentary services are seen as key to survival for telecoms companies. All bar O2 are investing mega bucks in their 4G networks right now. Mobility is an important part of any service offering. The pricing model needs work but that will come in time. It may come in the form of targeted media advertising, there's some really clever products out there specifically targeting this sector. Denis O'Brien says he wants to grow his media side of his telecoms business in to a €100 million business in a year.
We now have the minnow in the market owning the biggest share of the pie. It might take a year or two before it all gets merged properly. In the meantime business must continue.