Anybody flying today

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

The battery shows same voltages on all cells: it is charging now so i will keep on checking. However in the batch i got one of the batteries charged 2 cells @ 4.20 volts and one @ 4.13-4.14 --> is there anyway to recover that one or should i return it?
While I am at it: hobbyking says Lipos must be sent back to Hong Kong: that seems like it may cost me more to send it than replace it: has any of you had that experience before with Hobbyking?

thanks

The battery with 2 cells at 4.2 amd one at 4.13 will probably be ok. Just fly that for 20 minutes in the radian and test again during charging.

Cells being out of balance is not a problem in iteself. The problem is when the battery is in a plane etc, and one cell is well below the others, and so this cell is over discharged because the low voltage cutoff uses the battery voltage to sense its discharged, the one cell thats low can go below the minimum level.

Or vice versa when charging, a fully charged 3 cell battery should be no more than 12.6v, but if one cell is at 4.0 and the other 2 are 4.2, then the charger see`s a battery at 12.4, and so can over charge the 4.2v cell(s). Over charging is worse than over discharging by the same level. i have seen this in practice myself.

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

hobbyking says Lipos must be sent back to Hong Kong: that seems like it may cost me more to send it than replace it: has any of you had that experience before with Hobbyking?

thanks

I have had one bad battery from them, it was for the t-rex 600, one cell was way out from the other 5. I always check any battery i buy from anywhere for cell balance when new.

But i manually charged the one low cell (that was at a very bad 2.5v) on its own up to the level of the other cells. I got a fair bit of use from this battery, although that one bad cell used to self discharge over a few weeks, so i used to regularly maintain the battery. It was an unusual one.

Miamiheat

Today tried the WOT 4 and crashed it on take off. It was a bit windy and I believe i hesitated going full throttle and it barely got up, banked and crashed. Broke the prop.
Fixed the front end tonite and hoping to find a prop quickly.

Flew the radian in some good wind and although shaken a bit it did do well.

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

Today tried the WOT 4 and crashed it on take off. It was a bit windy and I believe i hesitated going full throttle and it barely got up, banked and crashed. Broke the prop.
Fixed the front end tonite and hoping to find a prop quickly.

Full throttle needed on planes taking off the ground for good airspeed and control. Otherwise a stall is more likely.

Flew the radian in some good wind and although shaken a bit it did do well.

Yea the radian will handle good winds.

Miamiheat

WOT 4 is dead.
Crashed immeddiately after take off. Completely banked and went belly up and crashed immediately.
seemed to lack power.
I had all controls checked and rechecked so will never know what happened.

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

WOT 4 is dead.
Crashed immeddiately after take off. Completely banked and went belly up and crashed immediately.
seemed to lack power.
I had all controls checked and rechecked so will never know what happened.

They are just a lot faster and more responsive than the radian. A lot more experience is needed to fly them than a radian. But thats not to say there was not some other problem.

Did you check centre of gravity? Vital that its not too tail heavy, as no one can fly it then.

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

I had all controls checked and rechecked so will never know what happened.

Are you certain the ailerons were in the right direction?
For left banking, the left one goes up and the right one goes down and vice versa.

Miamiheat

robbie7730 wrote: »

Are you certain the ailerons were in the right direction?
For left banking, the left one goes up and the right one goes down and vice versa.

Robbie at this stage i cant remember but i think they were OK, also I had out 50% expo and 50% rate on them to reduce their incidence: didnt touch anything plane went straight in a non agressive climb and flipped belly up and straight down (from 5 meter high)

But what you said about the CG is making me doubt (i had checked it a few days before bit not after the repairs).

The next one gets her maiden flight in NAVAN

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

Robbie at this stage i cant remember but i think they were OK, also I had out 50% expo and 50% rate on them to reduce their incidence: didnt touch anything plane went straight in a non agressive climb and flipped belly up and straight down (from 5 meter high)

But what you said about the CG is making me doubt (i had checked it a few days before bit not after the repairs).

The next one gets her maiden flight in NAVAN

The maiden flights are the one where unpredictable things can happen. Its also the one where basic checks can be overlooked in all the excitement.

The centre of gravity is one that can make a plane unflyable. But it would be hard to say anything was wrong. A plane like that can be a handful, especially on the maiden flight when its not trimmed out etc.

Bring your next one down anyway, and we can see what happens.

Kashkai

Small steps are the secret to successful progression. You've only flown the Rad a few times. You should have left the Wot 4 in its box for at least a couple of months. I'm speaking from experience here. I was flying my Rad for about five weeks, thought I knew it all, when I pile drove it into the ground.

A crash can be a good thing if you learn from it. The Rad can fool you into thinking flying is easy enough. As you've unfortunately found out, there is a world of difference between a large forgiving glider and a mildly aerobatic plane like the Wot4. Forget about the Wot 4 for now and get proficient on the Radian. Then buy a simple high wing trainer like a Supercub that flies similar to the Rad (rudder and elevator) but will let you practice taking off and landing on the ground. Then you will be ready to move onto an aileron plane. They are a lot more agile than the Rad which I think is what caught you out.

Quandry

Miamiheat wrote: »

Robbie at this stage i cant remember but i think they were OK, also I had out 50% expo and 50% rate on them to reduce their incidence: didnt touch anything plane went straight in a non agressive climb and flipped belly up and straight down (from 5 meter high)

But what you said about the CG is making me doubt (i had checked it a few days before bit not after the repairs).

The next one gets her maiden flight in NAVAN

I'm raging I didn't get a photo of your WOT because it looked really great with that colour scheme!

Miamiheat

@Dave: I did a fair bit of practice on the sim and i was flying confortably the faster and more acrobatic models.
Practiced a lot of take offs and landings as well. I know its different but honestly think there is something wrong in my setup of the plane. I got the replacement built and I do think it had to do with CG: i find it very uncomfortable to fit the 2000mah battery inside the compartment and last night i checked and placing my fingers about 6cm inside the wing like the manual says the plane was tilting strongly towards the front.
The last one was not even velcro'd inside as i had to force it in almost. but i didnt check the CG. As a general comment that plane has a veru poorly designed battery compartment, unles I am using the wrong battery.

@Quandry i'd be curious to see how your battery was fitted.
And I have pics of the plane BEFORE so I will post one for you!

cheers

Quandry

Miamiheat wrote: »

@Quandry i'd be curious to see how your battery was fitted.
And I have pics of the plane BEFORE so I will post one for you!

cheers

Cool, I think you saw the packs I was using in mine 2250mah 3S? With those packs the CG goes a little nose heavy (another reason why mine went in like a guided missile when inverted). Will have Wot4.2 up there in a couple of weeks anyway.

Hope to be at the patch on Monday about 3 if you want a hand with your own one.

Miamiheat

some pics

Quandry wrote: »

I'm raging I didn't get a photo of your WOT because it looked really great with that colour scheme!

Quandry

Looks great!

I can recall you saying your artist friend painted it. Was it a brand new model at that stage or had you bought it second hand or something?

also, would you permit me to post up your pictures in my Wot4 thread ?

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

@Dave: I did a fair bit of practice on the sim and i was flying confortably the faster and more acrobatic models.
Practiced a lot of take offs and landings as well. I know its different but honestly think there is something wrong in my setup of the plane. I got the replacement built and I do think it had to do with CG: i find it very uncomfortable to fit the 2000mah battery inside the compartment and last night i checked and placing my fingers about 6cm inside the wing like the manual says the plane was tilting strongly towards the front.
The last one was not even velcro'd inside as i had to force it in almost. but i didnt check the CG. As a general comment that plane has a veru poorly designed battery compartment, unles I am using the wrong battery.

If its nose heavy, it wont be unstable. Tail heavy is the realy bad one. That makes them very unstable even being a little tail heavy. Nitro planes as a matter of interest, become slightly more tail heavy as they use fuel too, if the fuel tank is in front of the CG.

But if your elctric plane was nose heavy, that just means it will be a little faster flying, but will be controllable no problem. I prefer aircraft a little nose heavy.

Miamiheat

what if it is VERY nose heavy?

Miamiheat

Quandry wrote: »

Looks great!

I can recall you saying your artist friend painted it. Was it a brand new model at that stage or had you bought it second hand or something?

also, would you permit me to post up your pictures in my Wot4 thread ?

It was a new one unfortunately.
My friend can paint or repair anything you like - he is an expert using any king of materials such as foam, fiberglass or wood for instance.

He is a painter and a sculptor so no project scares him.

cheers

Bruthal

Miamiheat wrote: »

what if it is VERY nose heavy?

If its very nose heavy, the air speed needed to fly would be a lot higher, as would be the landing and take off speeds. Once it took off from the ground though, it should fly even if nose heavy.

If it was so nose heavy that the CG was in front of the wing, a jet engine would be needed to get it flying:D. But they would never be that nose heavy.

Kashkai

I've flown a plane that was very tail heavy and it was almost impossible to control. I managed to get her down in one piece through a little skill and a lot of luck;).

A nose heavy plane is preferable and is what you should aim for (but not so much that she tips over on the take off run). The Wot 4 is an intermediate plane, ie a step up from a beginners plane and should have been left to one side for a few months. Simulators have their place but they are a world apart from flying for real. The Wot4 is a great plane though and I'd buy one if I had the space for another plane.

Reading your crash report about he she flipped over on her back, this looks like either she tip stalled on take off due to insufficient airspeed or you over controlled her on the ailerons and she went inverted on you and into the ground. There is a huge difference between the docility of the Radian's rudder/elevator control and the Wot4's rudder/elevator and aileron control.

Quandry

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

The Wot 4 is an intermediate plane, ie a step up from a beginners plane and should have been left to one side for a few months.

I've found that the Foam E Wot4 flies well for beginners with reduced control throws through dual rates. The proof is my 12 year old who after three flights is able to fly circuits and get in and out of trouble just fine. At the moment he needs me to take off and land for him while building skill and confidence.

Happy to help you with takeoff landing also if you want Miami while you get the feel of the model.

Miamiheat

Interesting last couple of days in which I found some answers.

- 2 crashes with WOT foam-e were due to center of gravity being totally off (very tail heavy as it turns out which would explain total uncontrollability) AND a faulty servo on second flight to add insult to injury.

- Although very mangled, discovered the beauty of boiling water which helped improve the appearance of the mangled parts and after a bit of work we rebuilt the Foam-e: mostly front end damage.

-The purchase of a CG machine allowed me to notice that new WOT of of box is quite nose heavy, and painted WOT is very tail heavy. We adjusted that with weights. To simplify test flight I taped the ailerons and connected rudder to aileron channel in orther to fly it "simply" as a 3 channel model.

Since we are crazy and impatient we decided to give it a test at the park in very very windy conditions:

The plane took off fast. I was able to fly her for a few minutes but wind so strong i ended up crashing her while trying to land. Very minor damage but great satisfaction proving our work and theories were good.

Went back home, fixed it up and its ready to go in better conditions. Will fly the park after i leave work tomorrow if conditions improve. But overall very happy to get it in the air.

Geoff I can tell you I am pretty sure that broken up plane of yours can be fixed: if you dont want the broken bits i will take them from you in order to fix it fur fun.

Kashkai

Ok, I do not want to rain on your parade but for your own sake, you should exercise a bit more caution when flying. In this small minded country of ours, the media would only love to run a story about some guy "fooling around with an rc plane and causing harm". Think I'm being over the top? Well last year, some guy flew a Radian over Croke Park during the All Ireland Football final and this was reported to the Gardai and the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA). Now I used to work for the IAA and a friend of mine in there told me they were actively considering cracking down heavily on rc flying due to the number of incidents reported to them. This would heavily restrict where and what you could fly.

I love flying and the enjoyment it gives me and I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. I do not want to have my hobby curtailed by the powers that be.

What I'm trying to say is that by all means, enjoy this hobby but do it safely. Altering a plane like you did with your Wot4 could make her fly erratically and might invalidate your insurance if you were to cause harm/injury. Your club might also take a dim view to flying an unsafe plane. I recently joined a club and had to go back to basics to prove to them that I could fly. It's a bit hard getting used to some fairly restrictive rules when it comes to flying at the club but those rules are there for everyone's safety. If I or anyone else flew an unsafe plane or generally flew in a dangerous manner, then they'd be kicked out.

Miamiheat

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Ok, I do not want to rain on your parade but for your own sake, you should exercise a bit more caution when flying. In this small minded country of ours, the media would only love to run a story about some guy "fooling around with an rc plane and causing harm". Think I'm being over the top? Well last year, some guy flew a Radian over Croke Park during the All Ireland Football final and this was reported to the Gardai and the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA). Now I used to work for the IAA and a friend of mine in there told me they were actively considering cracking down heavily on rc flying due to the number of incidents reported to them. This would heavily restrict where and what you could fly.

I love flying and the enjoyment it gives me and I suspect that's the case for a lot of people. I do not want to have my hobby curtailed by the powers that be.

What I'm trying to say is that by all means, enjoy this hobby but do it safely. Altering a plane like you did with your Wot4 could make her fly erratically and might invalidate your insurance if you were to cause harm/injury. Your club might also take a dim view to flying an unsafe plane. I recently joined a club and had to go back to basics to prove to them that I could fly. It's a bit hard getting used to some fairly restrictive rules when it comes to flying at the club but those rules are there for everyone's safety. If I or anyone else flew an unsafe plane or generally flew in a dangerous manner, then they'd be kicked out.

I accept your point of view but it differs than mine on a couple of facts: Model glued and strong when took it flying. On a patch designed por its use by a club I am a member of, with NOBODY around that I could hurt, no even the deers were there. If the model was to act silly I can ditch it voluntarily in the ground. No a big loss since its a fixed up inexpensive model.
As for the modification: what is that dangerous about making the wing flat and not using ailerons? Some models come like that right?
How many members or non members of my club, knowledgeable or not make mods on planes or helis and come to test it on the field: I bet all of them do it so I dont really see the validity of your point.

So i do enjoy this and I am not the kind of person to compromise other people's safety so I hope you are reassured.

Quandry

Miamiheat wrote: »

Geoff I can tell you I am pretty sure that broken up plane of yours can be fixed: if you dont want the broken bits i will take them from you in order to fix it fur fun.

Cheers for the offer Miami, at the moment I have it put away just for spares. I should be getting my new Wot tomorrow so will focus on getting the new one up and running. Maybe the paint that your buddy has is quite thick/heavy?? that has the capacity to make it tail heavy I guess. The CG of a plane is very important and having it not quite in the right place can make a dramatic impact on how the model flies.

Another thing that can impact it however is wing loading. That is the overall weight of the model as compared to the lift area of the model. If the wing loading is too low the model will float like a leaf, if it's too high, it will fly like a bus with a parachute :eek:. Most ARTF models can take a little bit of extra weight, like a slightly bigger battery/camera or whatever but not double the weight. Probably 20% maximum (at a guess)


Regarding safe flying, here's some simple things EVERYONE can do at any flying site

* Always fly with an experienced model flyer/spotter. Even if YOU are an experienced model flyer/spotter.
* Never fly over the pits or spectator area.
* If there are non club members in the area of the flying site, respectfully ask them to move away from the runway and stand in the spectator area. If this fails then attempt to safely land any airborne models and then wait for them to leave - or pack up and leave yourself.
* Check your model before every flight, and consider asking a fellow flier to check it also.
* Always fly with a spotter who can keep an eye on your battery level or what is happening around you while you watch the plane.
* Never take your eye off the model.
* Choose a model that is appropriate for your flying site and level of skill.

And the most important one:
* Join a club and ask more experienced fliers for help.
Source


Anyone got some others?

Kashkai

Miamiheat wrote: »

- 2 crashes with WOT foam-e were due to center of gravity being totally off (very tail heavy as it turns out which would explain total uncontrollability) AND a faulty servo on second flight to add insult to injury.

-To simplify test flight I taped the ailerons and connected rudder to aileron channel in orther to fly it "simply" as a 3 channel model.

Since we are crazy and impatient we decided to give it a test at the park in very very windy conditions:

The plane took off fast. I was able to fly her for a few minutes but wind so strong i ended up crashing her while trying to land. Very minor damage but great satisfaction proving our work and theories were good.

Read your own post above again. You are a new flyer (and yes we all had to learn) but by your own admission, you flew a plane that was tail heavy which even for an experienced flyer, would be almost impossible to control. I had a battery shift aft on me once resulting in the plane hanging almost vertically and it was with a lot of luck that I got her down in one piece. You are modifying planes that are designed to be flown with ailerons into a rudder/elevator plane with the resulting loss of control. Tell this to your club's safety officer and see what his reaction is.

You say yourself that you "are crazy and impatient and flew in very, very windy conditions...... and crashed while trying to land". Any experienced flyer would call it a day when the winds pick up, unless he's slope soaring. You are a new flyer just learning the ropes and you are taking chances that you've gotten away with up to now. For your own sake, curb the enthusiasm a bit until you get more experience. Flying is no different to learning how to drive and safety must be first and foremost. Flying a plane in windy conditions is not safe even if you have the Phoenix Park all to yourself. The club in the Park fly there at the good graces of the OPW and if one of their rangers see you flying erratically, he won't stop to take your inexperience or the weather consitions into account. He'll tell you to get out of the Park and might also file a complaint against your club.

Miamiheat wrote: »

I accept your point of view but it differs than mine on a couple of facts: Model glued and strong when took it flying. On a patch designed por its use by a club I am a member of, with NOBODY around that I could hurt, no even the deers were there. If the model was to act silly I can ditch it voluntarily in the ground. No a big loss since its a fixed up inexpensive model.
As for the modification: what is that dangerous about making the wing flat and not using ailerons? Some models come like that right?
How many members or non members of my club, knowledgeable or not make mods on planes or helis and come to test it on the field: I bet all of them do it so I dont really see the validity of your point.

So i do enjoy this and I am not the kind of person to compromise other people's safety so I hope you are reassured.

I've answered some of your rejoinders above. Just because you are a member of that club, it does not give you carte blanche to do what you want. It is a public park and not a private flying field which is one of the reasons I didn't join it. Where I fly, there isn't a house, car, person within a mile of me.

Yes some planes come without ailerons and they do fly perfectly well but that is because they are designed that way. The Wot4 is designed to be flown with ailerons and "taping them up" is not a mod but an unsafe practice. If I taped the ailerons up on any of my fast moving scale warplanes, it would be a very short flight.

Quandry wrote: »

Regarding safe flying, here's some simple things EVERYONE can do at any flying site

* Always fly with an experienced model flyer/spotter. Even if YOU are an experienced model flyer/spotter.
* Never fly over the pits or spectator area.
* If there are non club members in the area of the flying site, respectfully ask them to move away from the runway and stand in the spectator area. If this fails then attempt to safely land any airborne models and then wait for them to leave - or pack up and leave yourself.
* Check your model before every flight, and consider asking a fellow flier to check it also.
* Always fly with a spotter who can keep an eye on your battery level or what is happening around you while you watch the plane.
* Never take your eye off the model.
* Choose a model that is appropriate for your flying site and level of skill.

And the most important one:
* Join a club and ask more experienced fliers for help.
Source


Anyone got some others?

Excellent advice.

Some more:

Practice simple flying manouvers like take off, do a right hand circuit, then a left hand circuit, a figure of 8, a missed approach, a controlled stall and finally a successful landing. Practice, practice, practice all of these before you try anything else.

There are a couple of new flyers at the club I joined and even though they have only flown for a month or two, they fly full throttle in erratic patterns and their landings usually end up with the plane going end over with wheels in the air. They've been warned once and if they don't calm down, they'll be on the way out.

MACI are taking flight safety extremely seriously now due to the fact that a few well established clubs have been closed down due to unsafe flying practices by new members.

Miamiheat

Dave I am a polite person and I will politely say that your opinion is taken into consideration but at some stage please back off: I am not a baby in pampers.

My writing of being crazy and impatient was aimed to be a humorous exageration. I would never fly anything if I felt there was a risk of hurting anybody or damaging anything (but my foam model).

But good lesson on writing and sharing experiences: I believe I will refrain from sharing in the future as you just taught me people will interpret whatever they want.

The model is a foam plane on an empty park so stop treating this like a nuclear missile. And if you feel like picking on somebody chose somebody else because I am not going to give you any more answers.

Kashkai

Miamiheat wrote: »

Dave I am a polite person and I will politely say that your opinion is taken into consideration but at some stage please back off: I am not a baby in pampers.

My writing of being crazy and impatient was aimed to be a humorous exageration. I would never fly anything if I felt there was a risk of hurting anybody or damaging anything (but my foam model).

But good lesson on writing and sharing experiences: I believe I will refrain from sharing in the future as you just taught me people will interpret whatever they want.

The model is a foam plane on an empty park so stop treating this like a nuclear missile. And if you feel like picking on somebody chose somebody else because I am not going to give you any more answers.

Miami

Even if you don't want to respond, I feel I need to be put the record straight:-

I wasn't treating you "like a baby in pampers" but if you step back and read your own posts, you'd see that you're coming across as someone who is chucking a plane, without doing a pre-flight (the tail heavy wot4 for instance), into the sky and if it crashes "it was fun", quote/unquote. No one I know who flies rc planes thinks crashing is fun, quite the opposite. Unless you've a load of money to throw around, seeing your investment hit the ground and end up in pieces is quite sickening. Has anyone advised you of how to do a pre-flight, what to look out for, how to do a range test etc??? I'm sure one of your club members in the Phoenix Park would help.

You think your foam model is not going to hurt anyone if it crashes. I seriously beg to differ. A foam model hitting someone or their property will cause injury/damage. Remember that it is not just a lump of foam but has a rapidly spinning propellor, and a heavy battery pack to add to its mass. No nuclear missile I agree but it will cause injury if it hits someone. Having your mate catch your Radian was a very unsafe practice btw.

With regard to what you did to your Wot4, I asked a mate of mine in the UK who has one what he thought about you taping up the ailerons on a Wot4. His response was "he's barking right up the wrong tree if he thinks he can get a wot4 to fly on rudder elevator and engine. The original concept of it was an exercise in designing a 4 channel aerobatic model that was capable of doing just about any trick in the book and flying in most conditions. Its been around a good 30yrs and things have moved on since then but its testament to its designer and orginal kit producer Chris Foss that its being produced in an electric version by Ripmax. Ive had quite a few wot 4s over the years and they have all flown brilliantly (not tried an electric one yet). Ive flown them with 40size nitro's upto 70 size four strokes and as long as the C G is correct they're very forgiving. Sounds like he best stick to rubber powered free flight at least that way people won't need to wear a hard hat when he's about." That is the opinion of a guy who has been flying rc planes over 20 years.

While you disagree with/don't care about my opinion, fair enough, but I think you'll find that my opinion on unsafe flying is shared by the overwhelming number of rc flyers. I've taught 4 people to fly now and three of them are still in the hobby (the 4th gave up after a few months and moved on to his next fad). These 3 are good safe flyers (I'm not taking the credit for this btw) as they've taken their progression incrementally and learned how to fly their models until they knew them backwards. Then and only then, did they move onto the next step up. The result, none of them have ever crashed.

My last word on the subject, I know the guy who sold you your Wot4 as he used to run the flying club near me which was in operation for years. It was closed down 6 months back as some new members were acting the maggot and that got the club kicked off their patch by the local landowner who had been very supportive up to that point. If you think I'm being extreme, why don't you go and tell him about your exploits and see what he thinks? After losing his established club because of guys flying dangerously, I don't think he'd be very receptive to hearing about what you've done to date.

Go back to basics and learn how to fly safely. You might think its boring but if you learn how to fly properly and safely, then you'll get far more out of this great hobby.

Best of luck.