Return from Planting Trees.

eamon11

Hello,

I am not a farmer but will inherit my fathers 15 acres soon. About 10 is good land and 5 marshy land. I am thinking of contacting coillte about planting, but first would like practical opinions of people who have done this.

Any return or profit to be made and from what trees and how?

Thanks a lot,

Eamon

greenfingers89

eamon11 wrote: »

I am not a farmer. About 10 is good land and 5 marshy land. I am thinking of contacting coillte, but first would like practical opinions

Any return or profit to be made and from what trees and how?

if your not a farmer your looking at a return of €73 an acre a year for 15 years for softwoods or 79 for hardwoods. very difficult to talk about tree species and returns without knowing the land in question. what do you mean by good/marshy land......whats the soil type? drainage? exposure? height above sea level? underlying subsoil? what county is it in?

i'd call out one of the companies (not necessarily coillte) and they will have a look at it for free. in the mean time if you dont have many details regarding the site specifics it would be no harm for you to roam around a few other threads in the forestry forum, theirs a good few about fellas thinking of planting like yourself

heres a few links, top one might be most relevant but they're all pretty short reading so give them a look

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056510608

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056538697
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056543504
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056544721
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056539581
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056537949
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526072
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056436125
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056438714
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056382893

eamon11

tks a lot green. And if I am a farmer with minimal stock? we still have a herd number.

greenfingers89

eamon11 wrote: »

tks a lot green. And if I am a farmer with minimal stock? we still have a herd number.

with a herd number you are looking at €173/acre for conifers up to €195 for ash sycamore or alder. up to €208 for oak/beech. these are paid for 20 years instead of 15.

by the sounds of it you might be planting boggy ground with spruce (conifers) or alder. might plant better ground with spruce/alder/ash or oak depending on all sorts of variants. cannot recommend enough that you call out a forester or private company

eamon11

tks greenfingers,

u have been a good help. Appreciate it.

benjydagg

Word of advice, leave coillte alone. The Forestry Company OR greenbelt would be my suggestions.

daithi7

Does anyone know, that if you purchase land (say afforested land) and the return from that land, forestry premia say is greater than or equal to 50% of your total income, then do you qualify as a farmer under the forestry grant scheme??

so, before you buy the forest, you are not a farmer, then by buying the forest and assuming the premia are >= to 50% of your total income, do you then qualify as a farmer under the forestry scheme??

greenfingers89

daithi7 wrote: »

Does anyone know, that if you purchase land (say afforested land) and the return from that land, forestry premia say is greater than or equal to 50% of your total income, then do you qualify as a farmer under the forestry grant scheme??

so, before you buy the forest, you are not a farmer, then by buying the forest and assuming the premia are >= to 50% of your total income, do you then qualify as a farmer under the forestry scheme??

i'll keep it short and sweet........NO

your assessed before getting your payment. and its 25% not 50%, not that this mattered in this situation

fits

The forest premium rate for farmers is intended to compensate for loss of farming income as a result of planting. Therefore I doubt if you can claim to be a farmer if you buy the land especially to plant.

I'm not 100% sure now, but thats my take on it.

bookshelf

I'd have to agree with Greenfingers, on marshy ground Sitka Spruce is probably your best bet. It grows at a very fast pace in this country. If there are parts of the site extremely wet Alder is a good option, it will pretty much grow in a river. You wouldn't believe some of the places I planted it last year and it's coming along great. You might also want to plant around the perimeter of the site with some alder too, maybe 2 or 3 rows of it. It acts as a barrier and will protect the sitka spruce its surrounding. I hope this helps a little bit

greenfingers89

bookshelf wrote: »

If there are parts of the site extremely wet Alder is a good option, it will pretty much grow in a river. You wouldn't believe some of the places I planted it last year and it's coming along great. You might also want to plant around the perimeter of the site with some alder too, maybe 2 or 3 rows of it. It acts as a barrier and will protect the sitka spruce its surrounding. I hope this helps a little bit

regarding alder its worth noting a couple of things.

it might not grow in waterlogged sites, there is a big difference between an extremely wet site and a waterlogged site. alder has been found to severely die back between ages of 2 and 6 years on waterlogged sites and has since been investigated by the forest service. iv seen first hand perfect alder being wiped out on a few sites in munster.

other thing about alder is the national parks and wildlife service are now requesting alder be kept away from watercourses because it takes over riverbanks and then has to be cleared to allow other species grow and light get through. all applications i applied for in the last 6 months that were within SAC buffer zones came back with recommendations to plant broadleaves other than alder in buffer areas

daithi7

greenfingers89 wrote: »

i'll keep it short and sweet........NO

your assessed before getting your payment. and its 25% not 50%, not that this mattered in this situation

Thanks Greenfingers,

So to qualify as a farmer, I will need farming income to be >=25% of my total income. yes?

and, do you know if deposit interest is taken into account in calculating your income?

Finally, What is the best way to acquire such an income passively for a non farmer currently?
say land w environmental reps? special crop? or other?



thanks

greenfingers89

daithi7 wrote: »

Finally, What is the best way to acquire such an income passively for a non farmer currently?

might be of interest

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73865305

fergus1001

padraig egan in ferbane in very good aswell he planted forestry for me before and hes very good for after care or any questions you might have i can pm his number to you if you like ?

hes with SWS by the way

http://www.swsforestry.ie/index.php?pageID=30

theres a link

Cork White

Hi Fergus,

Is that the same company that you're currently employed by?
Just in case anybody thaought that this was an unbiased recommendation.

eamon11

lads,

tks a lot,

we still have herd number but are only part time farmers. On the forestry application it specifically asks if you are full or part time? Why? Will this affect the grant? Is not part time still a farmer?

greenfingers89

eamon11 wrote: »

lads,

tks a lot,

we still have herd number but are only part time farmers. On the forestry application it specifically asks if you are full or part time? Why? Will this affect the grant? Is not part time still a farmer?

if you have an active herd number just tick part time and it'll be fine. your forester should be handling this for you and explaining it, it doesnt sound like your getting fully informed invoice

greenfingers89

fergus1001 wrote: »

padraig egan in ferbane in very good aswell he planted forestry for me before and hes very good for after care or any questions you might have i can pm his number to you if you like ?

hes with SWS by the way

http://www.swsforestry.ie/index.php?pageID=30

theres a link

fergus i dont think your recommendation is very fair if you dont point out your position in relation to sws and the named forester.

to anyone who takes your advice on board i think they should look at your post on the first page of this linked thread below where you say you are currently working for the company

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056587636

people need to see the full picture before they go on others recommendations

Ettellig

greenfingers89 wrote: »

other thing about alder is the national parks and wildlife service are now requesting alder be kept away from watercourses because it takes over riverbanks and then has to be cleared to allow other species grow and light get through. all applications i applied for in the last 6 months that were within SAC buffer zones came back with recommendations to plant broadleaves other than alder in buffer areas

I thought alder held river banks together and added necessary nitrogenous products to the water? Is this based on sound science or the opinion of some public servant who "thinks" it doesn't "look" right?;)

fergus1001

i am currently working as a contractor for the company yes but many moons before i was working with them i got forestry planted down in clare by them so i know what your saying about being unbiased but leaving out the fact that im employed with them i was also dealing with them as a farmer and in that sense i had no problem with the company

sorry for not making my possition clearer lads