Anyone know if I can keep SFP with Trees?

eamon11

I am not a farmer but will inherit my fathers 15 acres soon. About 10 is good land and 5 marshy land. I am thinking of contacting coillte about planting, but first would like practical opinions of people who have done this.

Any return or profit to be made and from what trees and how? If I have no herd number will I get SFP? Or if the land is under trees?

Tks a lot,

Eamon

99nsr125

eamon11 wrote: »

I am not a farmer but will inherit my fathers 15 acres soon. About 10 is good land and 5 marshy land. I am thinking of contacting coillte about planting, but first would like practical opinions of people who have done this.

Any return or profit to be made and from what trees and how? If I have no herd number will I get SFP? Or if the land is under trees?

Tks a lot,

Eamon

Teagasc have advisors for beef, dairy, forestry etc and they are good
and free.

You need to be a farmer to get the single farm payment so herd/flock number etc is required.

You need 3 hectares to qualify for a herd number.

Grazing land rents for €150 per acre per year less if peaty/podzoil ground
and is expected to be fenced to a stockproof standard and have a supply
of clean water for any animals that may be put on it.

Land planted with trees for timber must remain forever in trees,
bar a handful of exclusions see the 1946 forestry act
It will also be worth significantly less. Even now peaty land might make
6k an acre forested land is 3.5k an acre.

Marshly land is best suited financially to the Spruce, either Sitka or
Norway if in parts of the country that have late spring or early autum frosts but
at 2 hectares it'll never make you or anyone else rich.

If you're close enough to the road and if you are close enough to a mill
at clearfell the 2 hectares would provide in todays money circa €35k
tax free after 45 years.

Taking the forestsry grants and 20 year farmer rate premiumns would
provide circa €800 a year for the twenty years from the 2 hectares.

Planting a mixture of alder and birch would provide decent firewood
once established (15 years) for a small house forever.


My advice is get soil tests done to see how good the ground is
and the type of clay you have.

Drain the marshy grouns if at all possible, if there is nowhere for the water to go,
wide open drains (used very effectively in bogs) help alot. If not
create a sacrifice area/drinking pool.

Cultivate the ground and plant new grass seed and it'll seem like a different field.
If successful the drainage works will push the price of the
land to circa 10k an acre.

eamon11

wow,

tks 99. Such an informative post. What if I use it all for trees? 15 acres?

appreciate the time and effort.

eamon

99nsr125

eamon11 wrote: »

wow,

tks 99. Such an informative post. What if I use it all for trees? 15 acres?

appreciate the time and effort.

eamon

http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/financial_info/afforestation_grant_scheme.asp


My advice is still to tidy up the land and should you need time to decide
let it for grazing or conacre (tillage letting) as this will limit the removal
of nutrients. Grazing removes a lowish level of nutrients and tillage to be
worthwhile requires that adequate amounts of fertiliser is applied.

If you're over 40 a lease of 5 years and upwards is tax free.

eamon11

tks 99,

the smallholding is around 30 acres. I will be putting my name shortly on my fathers herd number. He will leave half to me an half to my brother. My brother has no real interest. I would like to plant 15 accres and keep 3 cows on my brothers 15 acres. That at least will enable both of us to get the sfp. Plus the higher forestry primium for me. See any pitfalls with this?

99nsr125

eamon11 wrote: »

tks 99,

the smallholding is around 30 acres. I will be putting my name shortly on my fathers herd number. He will leave half to me an half to my brother. My brother has no real interest. I would like to plant 15 accres and keep 3 cows on my brothers 15 acres. That at least will enable both of us to get the sfp. Plus the higher forestry primium for me. See any pitfalls with this?

You can't get SFP on the forested land, the premium paid
for the 20 years (farmer rate) is supposed to be
compensation for loss of income.

F.D

Remember it might be tax free but you still have to pay the income levy on it
why not rent the 30 acres? i'm sure theres some other farmers in the area that will pay fairly good rates to rent it from you, and at least in a few years if you do want to hold stock of your own or grow a bioenergy crop you have a bit of land to do it
i cant see how a small acerage of trees would make that much money in the future either,and after clearfell there is no payments while the next round is growing, good luck with what ever you decide

JohnBoy

99nsr125 wrote: »

You can't get SFP on the forested land

Not so, forestry planted in the last "few" years can be eligible for SFP.

we got it last year.

sh1tstirrer

99nsr125 wrote: »

eamon11 wrote: »

I am not a farmer but will inherit my fathers 15 acres soon. About 10 is good land and 5 marshy land. I am thinking of contacting coillte about planting, but first would like practical opinions of people who have done this.

Any return or profit to be made and from what trees and how? If I have no herd number will I get SFP? Or if the land is under trees?

Tks a lot,

Eamon

Teagasc have advisors for beef, dairy, forestry etc and they are good
and free.

Teagasc giving free advice, since when?

Rovi

JohnBoy wrote: »

99nsr125 wrote: »

You can't get SFP on the forested land

Not so, forestry planted in the last "few" years can be eligible for SFP.

we got it last year.

Yep, check out page 6 of the Helpsheet/Terms and Conditions for the 2012 EU Single Payment Scheme (SPS) (pdf 1,003Kb):

Afforested land - eligible from 2009
With effect from 2009, eligible land that was declared in an SPS application in 2008 and was afforested in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012 can continue to be eligible to draw down an SPS payment in 2012 provided it satisfies the conditions outlined in Paragraph 39.

Paragraph 39 is on page 40:

39. Afforestation measures
If you are in receipt of aid under the Afforestation Grant and Premium Scheme, FEPS or the Native Woodland Establishment Scheme you are obliged to declare all the land parcels on your holding on your 2012 SPS application form. All land parcels in receipt of payment under the Afforestation Grant and Premium Scheme, FEPS or the Native Woodland Establishment Scheme are registered on the Department’s land parcel identification system (LPIS) with a unique identification number. Failure to declare afforested parcels under these schemes on LPIS could affect future forestry grant/premium payments.

Following changes to the EU Regulations land which was afforested since 2009 and land which will be afforested in 2012 will be eligible to draw down an SPS payment in 2012 provided that the afforested land meets the following requirements:
• The land to be afforested was declared on a 2008 SPS application form;
• The applicant who declared that land on a 2008 SPS application form was paid under the 2008 Single Payment Scheme;
• The land to be afforested was eligible to draw down an SPS payment in 2008;
• Applicants, who afforest part of their holding from 2009 onwards and wish to benefit from the Single Payment, must retain at least 10% of the eligible hectares declared in 2008 (by the applicant or their predecessor) in an agricultural activity subject to a minimum of 3 hectares.
• If the applicant is a new entrant to farming, the minimum area to be retained in an agricultural activity will be fixed by the Department on a case by case basis.
• Applicants, who wish to benefit from the Single Payment on afforested land, must be the person or persons in joint management of receipt of afforestation premium. This applies to members of the same family.
• The afforested land meets all the requirements of the Afforestation Grant and Premium Scheme, FEPS or the Native Woodland Establishment Scheme;
• Eligible Forestry parcels that are declared on SPS applications to activate entitlements will also be subject to cross-compliance requirements.

Applicants, who plant land parcels under the Afforestation Aid Scheme in 2012 before submitting their application, should declare the land as other in column 9 and Forestry 2012 in column 10.

Consolidation of newly afforested land will therefore no longer be required.

99nsr125

JohnBoy wrote: »

Not so, forestry planted in the last "few" years can be eligible for SFP.

we got it last year.

Of course you're correct but it hasn't been planted.
and eligibility depends on the past.

So there would have to be an established SFP
on the land from 2008, this may be true but
I was under the impression it wasn't.

99nsr125

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Teagasc giving free advice, since when?

Make the short phonecall looking for
"clarification"