UCD SU - how can it change to actually be of use?

mloc

The SU really needs such a massive overhaul, from the top down. The positions have become so jaded and tired that at this stage, each role has almost no use on it's own.

• President - essentially the PR guy who does the token comment in the Observer and **** all else.
  
• Ents - SU bar booker. That's it. Also, potentially, paying his own events company (or one he is affiliated with) to organise nights out off campus. In other circles this might be referred to as embezzlement.
  
• Welfare - stating the bloody obvious in generally very uninspiring ways
  
• Education - providing extremely limited services in an unreliable fashion that the college should probably provide anyway
  
• C+C - hack, usually for the welfare or education officers. Redundant position if the welfare and education officers are actually doing their jobs.

Don't even get me started on the other positions.

The sabbats are paid from the SU kitty, which is funded by students. Also, they are massively in debt, due to dodgy accounting practices and years of embezzling funds through at times circuitous and more often blatant methods, as well as massive overspending on activities and campaigns.

The cycle perpetuates itself as the democratic model used is poor and unfairly benefits those candidates groomed by incumbents. People often say "if you don't like it, you should run yourself" etc. This is nonsense; the electoral system makes it unduly difficult for a newcomer to get elected, as alliances between candidates usually condoned by incumbents provide a massive advantage over a lesser known candidate. The archaic voting system (which should have been replaced years ago by a UCD connect based online voting system) also keeps turnout low and limited to, predominantly, hacks and stragglers who are vote-mugged by hacks as they walk by polling areas.

How can the SU actually work? I open the floor to discussion.

steddyeddy

mloc wrote: »

The SU really needs such a massive overhaul, from the top down. The positions have become so jaded and tired that at this stage, each role has almost no use on it's own.

• President - essentially the PR guy who does the token comment in the Observer and **** all else.
• Ents - SU bar booker. That's it. Also, potentially, paying his own events company (or one he is affiliated with) to organise nights out off campus. In other circles this might be referred to as embezzlement.
• Welfare - stating the bloody obvious in generally very uninspiring ways
• Education - providing extremely limited services in an unreliable fashion that the college should probably provide anyway
• C+C - hack, usually for the welfare or education officers. Redundant position if the welfare and education officers are actually doing their jobs.

Don't even get me started on the other positions.

The sabbats are paid from the SU kitty, which is funded by students. Also, they are massively in debt, due to dodgy accounting practices and years of embezzling funds through at times circuitous and more often blatant methods, as well as massive overspending on activities and campaigns.

The cycle perpetuates itself as the democratic model used is poor and unfairly benefits those candidates groomed by incumbents. People often say "if you don't like it, you should run yourself" etc. This is nonsense; the electoral system makes it unduly difficult for a newcomer to get elected, as alliances between candidates usually condoned by incumbents provide a massive advantage over a lesser known candidate. The archaic voting system (which should have been replaced years ago by a UCD connect based online voting system) also keeps turnout low and limited to, predominantly, hacks and stragglers who are vote-mugged by hacks as they walk by polling areas.

How can the SU actually work? I open the floor to discussion.

Well first thing they should do is have total tranparency regarding their finances.

GoldFour4

I think Welfare does an awful lot more then you give them credit for...

mloc

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well first thing they should do is have total tranparency regarding their finances.

Agreed. All finances available quarterly at least, in full, online. In as much detail as possible, all expenses vouched.

This should be easy as there is a full time paid SU accountant, a non-student position, with their own office in the student center. All they need is to actually do their job.

steddyeddy

malachyscott wrote: »

I think Welfare does an awful lot more then you give them credit for...

As I said before on here I think the welfare lady is a saint.

mloc

malachyscott wrote: »

I think Welfare does an awful lot more then you give them credit for...

Well let's discuss that.

Apart from free condoms (a vending machine is cheaper) and continuing the same old campaigns (Please Talk), what additional and novel functions do they have that could not be replaced with a few web pages?

spudington16

I always think ents is a massive waste of funds. Surely that money could be better spent elsewhere on vital services like the Student Counselling Service, which has a long waiting list?

steddyeddy

spudington16 wrote: »

I always think ents is a massive waste of funds. Surely that money could be better spent elsewhere on vital services like the Student Counselling Service, which has a long waiting list?

Im nearly sure that someone told me that ents use up to three times more money than welfare. Can anyone set me straight on this?

WeeBushy

The way I see it the SU are full of well the meaning but naive, and opportunistic people. The play a role that has potential but is redundant in its current format and for the large part there are better equivalent resources provided elsewhere.

The point mentioned above about change is correct, its is a very archaic and insular system that is hard to change. It should also be mentioned that students just simply don't care enough. It is wrong that way the SU is run, but most students just want to have a good time, study, get their degree and leave. They don't want to spend a year of their lives being involved in an environment that they just don't care for.

However I do think it has the potential to play a good and important role in college, it just doesn't do that at the moment.

HavingCrack

mloc wrote: »

Well let's discuss that.

Apart from free condoms (a vending machine is cheaper) and continuing the same old campaigns (Please Talk), what additional and novel functions do they have that could not be replaced with a few web pages?

Am I the only one who has a serious issue with free condoms? It's very nanny stateish to me. If you can't afford condoms you shouldn't be having sex. I'm annoyed to see my reg fee being spent on it.

I know some people think it's a good idea but..

bbuzz

mloc wrote: »

The SU really needs such a massive overhaul, from the top down. The positions have become so jaded and tired that at this stage, each role has almost no use on it's own.

• President - essentially the PR guy who does the token comment in the Observer and **** all else.
  
• Ents - SU bar booker. That's it. Also, potentially, paying his own events company (or one he is affiliated with) to organise nights out off campus. In other circles this might be referred to as embezzlement.
  
• Welfare - stating the bloody obvious in generally very uninspiring ways
  
• Education - providing extremely limited services in an unreliable fashion that the college should probably provide anyway
  
• C+C - hack, usually for the welfare or education officers. Redundant position if the welfare and education officers are actually doing their jobs.

Don't even get me started on the other positions.

The sabbats are paid from the SU kitty, which is funded by students. Also, they are massively in debt, due to dodgy accounting practices and years of embezzling funds through at times circuitous and more often blatant methods, as well as massive overspending on activities and campaigns.

The cycle perpetuates itself as the democratic model used is poor and unfairly benefits those candidates groomed by incumbents. People often say "if you don't like it, you should run yourself" etc. This is nonsense; the electoral system makes it unduly difficult for a newcomer to get elected, as alliances between candidates usually condoned by incumbents provide a massive advantage over a lesser known candidate. The archaic voting system (which should have been replaced years ago by a UCD connect based online voting system) also keeps turnout low and limited to, predominantly, hacks and stragglers who are vote-mugged by hacks as they walk by polling areas.

How can the SU actually work? I open the floor to discussion.

I suggest you read the new constitution.

http://www.voteucd.com/

Topper7

I believe Ents is by far the most expensive leg of the SU. I stand corrected but I remember the ents team used to be very self sufficient via ticket sales & sponsorsip (spin etc.). But due to poor management over the last few years the standard has seriously gone hill. & last year was just a disaster, look at fashion show (massive loss) & the UCD ball (1 thing to organise all year & they couldnt even get that right!).

I think hiring the right people to look after some aspects of the SU on a profesional basis is a move in the right direction. However there should be strict monitioring of these paid officals. Also the SU officers get paid to much. Many students do the same amount of work and to a better standard through clubs/societies and do not get paid for it never mind taking a year out!

The idea of using UCD connect as a voting systeym is a great one if UCD would allow it. Would defo help get the rid of the 'click' in the SU.

Fad

mloc wrote: »

Well let's discuss that.

Apart from free condoms (a vending machine is cheaper) and continuing the same old campaigns (Please Talk), what additional and novel functions do they have that could not be replaced with a few web pages?

Personal cases (That is as vague as it sounds, dealing with a welfare officer is confidential, as it should be, and everyone is different, hence the vagueness).

Administering the numerous funds that the SU have for people in financial difficulties.

General dealings with the University about services for people's welfare (Be it mental health/physical health).

Campaigns. Please Talk might be the same old shít to you, but it means a lot to some people and carries a pretty serious and important message....

A welfare officer is more than free condoms anyway.....

But hey, I doubt you'll change your tune, you seem pretty convinced. I'm pretty cynical about the other positions.The exception being the president this year. Pat has done a very good job this year tackling the finances of the SU (I'm sure he could have just as easily swept it under the rug like past officers presumably have....), he has done a better job this year as president than any other president I have seen in my time in UCD (Third year here, so I've seen Lynam and Redmond, so beating them isn't too hard, but anyway).

LifesaverNiall

Did you honestly just say that the president is the PR that makes the odd comment and then nothing else?
<Modsnip>
Just look at Pat now compared to say last september, the man is a shell of what he used to be due to stress/ lack of sleep etc etc..
Hes had the balls to take a step forward and start correcting the mistakes of the past. So i say fair F*cks to him. Hes put a lot of work into the new constitution and I hope it gets passed.
Most people judge the Sabbots passed on the Ents officer because its him we mostly hear about. He gives a bad name to the team, but I have to say Pat and Rachel have worked extremely hard over the past year!

gradlife

I find the "hack" term to be a bit unfair in the general sense. Coming for someone who has never been involved in the S.U. btw.

I feel like it's unfair not to expect people who end up spending a significant amount of time together, share similar interests and have similar goals not to become friends.

Fad

gradlife wrote: »

I find the "hack" term to be a bit unfair in the general sense. Coming for someone who has never been involved in the S.U. btw.

I feel like it's unfair not to expect people who end up spending a significant amount of time together, share similar interests and have similar goals not to become friends.

It's the same with the word clique.... The committees for most socs are cliques simply because it's people with a shared group of interest being friends.

I'm by no means denying the union's a clique.... but that's just kinda human nature. If you genuinely make an effort to get involved with anything in UCD, you'll probably be accepted to some degree

WoollyRedHat

Hey, is there a thread for the constitution and what it entails, or is it farily straight forward?

Topper7

Well in fairness at least in clubs & socs there is a turn over of its officers, & while some hang around for longer than expected, the vast majority serve their time in office & move on. Compare this with the SU where it is the same faces popping up over and over again. & they will all help support each other rather & keep it a closed group rather than aiding a equal chance for all. I cant comment on this years elections but I remember from other years the various sabbats would come out at election time supporting each other. Now I know friendships will have been built & naturally they want to help each other out, but these people will generally persuade the rest of the regular SU voters to vote for their friend. Thus leaving a outside canidate to try and persuade those that dont regurally vote to do so & to vote for them. So if your not in the hack then you generally dont stand a chance. Dan O Niell was the only sabbat that tried to mix things up & actually came out & support his fellow students. He didnt care about what others thought of him. & other members frowned at him for doing so! Most of the others are to worried about their future 'carears' in politics to ruffle any feathers!

Anyways off point!- The best way to get rid of the clique is to not allow people to hold senior positions for more than 2 years (some USI officals have not been a student in 5 years) and not allow currently elected officers to campaign for votes for another candiate? Harsh but fair... Other improvements is to have the accounts completly open and have officers tell the truth about what they are doing. Surely they are overpaid considering how many officers in societies/clubs who do their job for nothing.

Out of curiousty, if a SU elected official performs poorly in their position, can/do they put down on their CV that the they performed their job well? Is there somebody who acts as a referee for these guys (& girls) in the future so that they can tell pontential employers how good/bad they where? I persume socs can use Richard Butler or the senior treasuer as their ref (from my expierence, senior treasuer is used often for refs of soc members).

mloc

So the accounts issue is a big one, no surprise there. Total, online accessible transparency has to happen.

I think online voting is an absolute must as well; it would dramatically open up the SU. Does anyone have turnout figures for the last few years? I'd imagine they would increase massively if online voting was introduced.

I don't know about candidates not being allowed to be promoted by current sabbats; I think that's ok, once absolutely no SU resources or time is used to promote them. Again, more transparency is required for this to happen.

Foxtrol

The SU is and always will be a clique because if you want to see a clique you'll see one in every part of UCD. Look at societies, sports teams, charity day committees, peer mentoring, belfield fm, the tribune/obsever, the fashion show, ucd guides, the musical and for every one if you want to see a clique or barriers to others getting involved then you will.

As far as looking for references I don't think it matters. A simple google search will find background to how someone did. Even if they did perform poorly employers will still be extremely impressed that they managed to win a university wide election with a possible vote of 22/23k.

bnt

What do students today need, more than anything else? Money. Even "welfare" problems are, in a significant number of cases, money problems. That's all we need, really: wind up most SU functions, put the money back in the hands of students by drastically cutting the Student Registration charge & Postgrad fees.

BDR

Topper7 wrote: »

I believe Ents is by far the most expensive leg of the SU. I stand corrected but I remember the ents team used to be very self sufficient via ticket sales & sponsorsip (spin etc.). But due to poor management over the last few years the standard has seriously gone hill. & last year was just a disaster, look at fashion show (massive loss) & the UCD ball (1 thing to organise all year & they couldnt even get that right!).

As far as I know the Ents position was created to make money for the union so that if can be pumped back into the other areas?

Last years Fashion Show admittedly wasn't great but this years was the most successful student fashion show ever run in UCD, the only to ever break even and made 5k+ for the charity.

The issues that arose with the ball last year were due to the college and not down to Ents. The Ball is self sufficient in that the tickets pay for the acts so nothing can really be said about the Ball.

Vodafone are the main sponsors this year, though I'm not sure how much they bring in. When Spin sponsor events etc they rarely give money just air time and promotions. Heffo is planning to get more sponsorship this year so hopefully there'll be an improvement in the whole system.

Oasis_Dublin

Foxtrol wrote: »

Look at societies, sports teams, charity day committees, peer mentoring, belfield fm, the tribune/obsever, the fashion show, ucd guides, the musical and for every one if you want to see a clique or barriers to others getting involved then you will.

Peer mentoring a clique? Sports teams a clique? Belfield FM a clique?! What are you on about?

Foxtrol

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Peer mentoring a clique? Sports teams a clique? Belfield FM a clique?! What are you on about?

Sports Teams/Belfield FM: Looking at it the way some view the SU you could make some of the same complaints at either for being cliques:

- Those who are involved spend time together and become friends, hanging around together and helping each other out.
- Any student is very unlikely to walk into either and become captain or head the station.
- People who are already involved one year are much more likely to be involved and have a expanded role the following year as they have gained skills and experience.

I accept that peer mentoring is more of a stretch but there is still a lot of common ground.

Before you jump on me I haven't and am not saying they are cliques but if people are going to brand the SU a clique you can brand a lot of other groups in UCD the same.

Oasis_Dublin

Foxtrol wrote: »

Sports Teams/Belfield FM: Looking at it the way some view the SU you could make some of the same complaints at either for being cliques:

- Those who are involved spend time together and become friends, hanging around together and helping each other out.
- Any student is very unlikely to walk into either and become captain or head the station.
- People who are already involved one year are much more likely to be involved and have a expanded role the following year as they have gained skills and experience.

I accept that peer mentoring is more of a stretch but there is still a lot of common ground.

Before you jump on me I haven't and am not saying they are cliques but if people are going to brand the SU a clique you can brand a lot of other groups in UCD the same.

As far as I understand it, the Belfield FM manager(s) is appointed by a board comprised of only one UCD Sabbat; the rest of the board have nothing to do with the SU. This year's News Editor at BFM is a first year, as far as I'm aware.

Sports teams; if you are not good enough, you don't get on the team! That's why UCD won the Collingwood Cup last week.

Foxtrol

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

As far as I understand it, the Belfield FM manager(s) is appointed by a board comprised of only one UCD Sabbat; the rest of the board have nothing to do with the SU. This year's News Editor at BFM is a first year, as far as I'm aware.

Sports teams; if you are not good enough, you don't get on the team! That's why UCD won the Collingwood Cup last week.

Being appointed by a board, being selected by a manager or being elected by students doesnt refute any of the points I raised.

Oasis_Dublin

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being appointed by a board, being selected by a manager or being elected by students doesnt refute any of the points I raised.

Well then I'm glad there is a clique. I would hate to think that anyone could just walk in and demand that Mick Leahy be dropped because it was making them feel bad. Or that anyone could demand to be a paper/radio manager because it would make them feel better.

That would be, now that I think of it, absolutely moronic.

Timmaay

BDR wrote: »

As far as I know the Ents position was created to make money for the union so that if can be pumped back into the other areas?

Last years Fashion Show admittedly wasn't great but this years was the most successful student fashion show ever run in UCD, the only to ever break even and made 5k+ for the charity.

The issues that arose with the ball last year were due to the college and not down to Ents. The Ball is self sufficient in that the tickets pay for the acts so nothing can really be said about the Ball.

Vodafone are the main sponsors this year, though I'm not sure how much they bring in. When Spin sponsor events etc they rarely give money just air time and promotions. Heffo is planning to get more sponsorship this year so hopefully there'll be an improvement in the whole system.

Both the Ball and Fashion Show get a significant Newman fund grant off the college though?

Foxtrol

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Well then I'm glad there is a clique. I would hate to think that anyone could just walk in and demand that Mick Leahy be dropped because it was making them feel bad. Or that anyone could demand to be a paper/radio manager because it would make them feel better.

That would be, now that I think of it, absolutely moronic.

I have no idea who Mick Leahy is so I'll take your word that it would be a moronic thing to do, just like with the paper/radio. Someone making a choice that they are going to vote for a potential sabbat for the sole reason they're not part of a perceived clique is along the same lines of moronic thinking. I'm glad we agree...

spillit67

BDR wrote: »

As far as I know the Ents position was created to make money for the union so that if can be pumped back into the other areas?

Last years Fashion Show admittedly wasn't great but this years was the most successful student fashion show ever run in UCD, the only to ever break even and made 5k+ for the charity.

The issues that arose with the ball last year were due to the college and not down to Ents. The Ball is self sufficient in that the tickets pay for the acts so nothing can really be said about the Ball.

Vodafone are the main sponsors this year, though I'm not sure how much they bring in. When Spin sponsor events etc they rarely give money just air time and promotions. Heffo is planning to get more sponsorship this year so hopefully there'll be an improvement in the whole system.

I blame the Union, Ents and UCD collectively for the **** up last year. Communication from the Union and Ents was very poor to students. The foul up as regards permission lies at the door of both UCD and the Union.

UCD's actions with regards to the Ball annoyed me greatly. I know they don't want it to be a poster child for the University like Sports teams success is, they treat it like a bunch of kids being babysat on the piss rather than a flagship event like it's in Trinity. It doesn't excuse their really poor efforts at getting the thing going. Rather than working with the Union they sat back and didn't really seem to help much at all until the last minute.

Oasis_Dublin

Foxtrol wrote: »

I have no idea who Mick Leahy is so I'll take your word that it would be a moronic thing to do, just like with the paper/radio. Someone making a choice that they are going to vote for a potential sabbat for the sole reason they're not part of a perceived clique is along the same lines of moronic thinking. I'm glad we agree...

I'm not that you know what you remember your original line of discussion. I'll leave it there. Long live UCD AFC, Belfield FM, The College Tribune and the University Observer. Without them, the clique could never survive.