Price of petrol megathread

Dubit10

1.66 last night in my local topaz

rossie1977

Stinicker wrote: »

The Euro was worth around $1.55 then but only around €1.29 today so it is much more expensive now plus add all the taxes added by the Fianna Fraudsters.

its the taxes, just back from tenerife and its less than a euro per litre in alot of places there :eek:

Dartz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GKP_dB3Hmw

Too bad it's the dubbed version....

Chuck Stone

jumpguy wrote: »

an attack on Iran should, theoretically, have little/no effect on the price here already. That's open to correction though...

My prediction would be that if Iran gets attacked by the US/Israel the price of oil will sky rocket initially then the economies of the world would suffer from a leap in inflation and subsequent recession.

The resulting recession and a de-escalation of hostilities would then probably see the price settle back down because the demand for oil would decrease with decreased economic activity.

I don't believe an attack on Iran will happen fwiw.

Also, market speculation serves a purpose in keeping prices low rather than driving them up. It's manipulation of the market that distorts the price.

A US/Israel attack on Iran is very unlikely, the fake news story last night proves why, the spike in oil prices will completely derail most western economies.

If an attack was to happen, then Iran would simply lob a few missiles at Saudi oil installations or pipelines/pumping stations.

Take a few of those out and about 15% of global oil is off the market!

You can guess the rest.

gbee

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Also, market speculation serves a purpose in keeping prices low rather than driving them up. It's manipulation of the market that distorts the price.

The first part of this sentences is the same as the second part.

Just like last year when some 300 full tankers of crude were ordered to stop off Singapore and just wait there. Then there was a crude shortage and the price went up, the tankers were then given their destinations.

Direct market selling, like Saddam did and Iran is doing, prevents this artificial slump happening by mega-rich manipulators, the 1970 fuel crisis never existed BTW [either].

Chuck Stone

gbee wrote: »

Just like last year when some 300 full tankers of crude were ordered to stop off Singapore and just wait there. Then there was a crude shortage and the price went up, the tankers were then given their destinations.

Manipulation ^^.

Speculation serves the function of ensuring that the effect of shortages and gluts of goods are lessened.

Speculating on the shortage of a good will cause the price to rise and thus for more of the good to be produced to fill the demand which will ease the shortage.

That's ^^ the ideal but as you've alluded to speculation can become manipulation and that is just price gouging.

gbee

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That's ^^ the ideal but as you've alluded to speculation can become manipulation and that is just price gouging.

The oil business is so controlled that I don't think it works in this case.

IF, IF, IF we had a FREE market, and were selling in various currencies and could buy off ANYONE selling, then, sure, but we are not in a free market.

There is absolutely no need for all the world's oil to go to Wall Street.

And, it would not, if we had an Irish Wall Street and a UK Wall Street and so on, but we haven't cos, even all those other stock exchanges have to buy off Wall Street in US$ and THEY can decide if you'll get the product or not ~ it's that simple, they don't need a war or a thread, they just park their tankers.

And they could not do that if we had a free market, because if you did not supply me, the other fella would, even if he was a little dearer, then the first guy would have to hustle to SELL me his oil ~

Chuck Stone

gbee wrote: »

The oil business is so controlled that I don't think it works in this case.

Probably not as well as it should because of all the interventions you've cited but oil speculation still has the effect of driving up the cost and making previously economically inviable sources of oil viable.

I'm guessing that extracting from deep sea sources was economically inviable at one point until the increasing demand and rising prices made it profitable.

gbee

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm guessing that extracting from deep sea sources was economically inviable at one point until the increasing demand and rising prices made it profitable.

This is a line of course that has been trotted out for decades, it's also why we gave away our own oil off Donegal. But all it would mean is it would be more expensive, possibly offset by a pipeline.

Irish crude already carries a surcharge through its facilities in Bantry Bay and white Gate.

At one time, the middle eastern gas fields used to be burnt off to more quickly access the oil.

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Probably not as well as it should because of all the interventions you've cited but oil speculation still has the effect of driving up the cost and making previously economically inviable sources of oil viable.

I'm guessing that extracting from deep sea sources was economically inviable at one point until the increasing demand and rising prices made it profitable.

Quite simply, no one is going to drill a well if it costs more to prospect and extract the oil than they can sell it for.

If oil is "cheap" then about half of the current production platforms would shut down due to the cost of operating them being higher than the income from the sold oil, it's simply a case that the higher the price the larger the supply, but that has real hear limits as well.

Peak oil is the point of maximum production from all kinds of oil production platform, that point has been reached and supply simply isn't going to grow any more without (inferior) substitutions to give the appearance of continued growth!

The charts show production still increasing, but what they don't show is the fact that substitution is taking place and the energy obtained is dropping!

44leto

gbee wrote: »

This is a line of course that has been trotted out for decades, it's also why we gave away our own oil off Donegal. But all it would mean is it would be more expensive, possibly offset by a pipeline.

Irish crude already carries a surcharge through its facilities in Bantry Bay and white Gate.

At one time, the middle eastern gas fields used to be burnt off to more quickly access the oil.

We would still get a revenue from it and quite a lot of it. I don't know about deep oil, we seen what happened with BP deep water horizon rig. Now BP had to deal with the Americans, the Irish would have lesser clout. Deep water rigs are still cutting edge and up to then I thought they had that tech licked, but obviously not.

The Rockall basin has all the geological conditions for oil and a big field although Rockall is closer to Britain then Ireland it is on our shelf so it is ours.

Hande hoche!

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Ahh PressTv you scoundrels.

They still have the story up there!

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/229508.html

A Primal Nut

facemelter wrote: »

OK I've heard this a few places but this being the internet im going to spout it like its mine .. The price of petrol is it really that high ? if you consider all the work that has to go into getting from beneath 100's of metres of ocean , under tonnes of rock , processed , cleaned , refined , and pumped into your car for about 1.57 a litre , sure a can of coke can be more expensive than that , I think the reason people talk about it so much it because the amounts we use it in are so vast . any thoughts ?

I agree with you but the issue is that most of the cost of the fuel is tax, which is increased in every budget. Why the government want to increase the cost of people commuting to work every day is beyond me. The public transport excuse is nonsense considering there is no such thing outside Dublin (local public transport I mean) so people have no choice but use cars.

Then you have to consider the quality of public transport in Dublin, but that's another thread.

I've never understood why petrol gets tied in with cigarettes and alcohol every budget. The latter two are luxeries which are bad for your health while the other is a necessity for most working people in Ireland.

Chuck Stone

Deleted User wrote: »

IPeak oil is the point of maximum production from all kinds of oil production platform, that point has been reached

The event of 'Peak oil' will be a point agreed upon only by consensus and in retrospect.

There is no consensus on whether that point has been reached as far as I'm aware.

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The event of 'Peak oil' will be a point agreed upon only by consensus and in retrospect.

There is no consensus on whether that point has been reached as far as I'm aware.

That's right, but there are currently far more "peaks" in the rear view mirror than in front of us, US mainland production peaked in 1970, North sea peaked in 1999, global "conventional" crude 2005 etc, the list is quite long.

Wild_Dogger

highfive wrote: »

Was talking from a friend from Venezuela over the weekend and she said that it costs $.50 to fill up her chevrolet spark. She spends $5 a month on petrol! There's something gone wrong somewhere!!

Petrol in Libya during Gadaffi reign was €0.15 per litre

Wild_Dogger

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Petrol in Libya during Gadaffi reign was €0.15 per litre

Yep! he sold it at cost (of extraction) kept costs down and made Libyans feel rich.

jackdock88

dolanbaker wrote: »

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Petrol in Libya during Gadaffi reign was €0.15 per litre

Yep! he sold it at cost (of extraction) kept costs down and made Libyans feel rich.

I believe that the rise in price is down to the diminishing value of the euro and dollar. The price of petrol in terms of silver has actually fallen in the past ten years

jackdock88

jackdock88 wrote: »

I believe that the rise in price is down to the diminishing value of the euro and dollar. The price of petrol in terms of silver has actually fallen in the past ten years

Yes, but we're paid in this paper stuff, so in that respect the cost has gone up in relative terms.

cloptrop

Why doesnt everyone just stop buying it. Demand controls price. If everyone cycled a day a week , price would drop.
Its all economics.

Chuck Stone

cloptrop wrote: »

Why doesnt everyone just stop buying it. Demand controls price. If everyone cycled a day a week , price would drop.
Its all economics.

Oil is used for much more than powering cars.

Oil is the life blood of Capitalism and growth. It is involved in the supply and delivery of almost every product you use.

facemelter

cloptrop wrote: »

Why doesnt everyone just stop buying it. Demand controls price. If everyone cycled a day a week , price would drop.
Its all economics.

all cars ? buses ? trucks ? ambulances ? fire trucks ? so basically shut down society for a week ? :pac:

A bit like boycotting the supermarkets because the food is so expensive!
We'll starve.

allthedoyles

Expect oil prices to fall next week :

Oil prices fell below $107 a barrel this evening after Saudi Arabia denied an Iranian media report of a Saudi pipeline explosion

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/oil-business.html

allthedoyles

allthedoyles wrote: »

Expect oil prices to fall next week :


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/oil-business.html

There's usually a six week lag on the futures prices reaching the forecourts, the prices quoted today are for deliveries to the refineries in April, it then takes a few days to go through the syetem before arriving at the petrol stations.

Sully

Deleted User wrote: »

There's usually a six week lag on the futures prices reaching the forecourts, the prices quoted today are for deliveries to the refineries in April, it then takes a few days to go through the syetem before arriving at the petrol stations.

Unless there is a price increase. Than it generally goes up fairly quick. Price drops take a while, if at all, to be filtered.

Sully

Sully wrote: »

Unless there is a price increase. Than it generally goes up fairly quick. Price drops take a while, if at all, to be filtered.

Up like a rocket, down like a feather!
Nothing new there.

Solair

The petrol/diesel prices must, at this stage, be having a very negative effect on the economy.

I know of two people who had to give up work and go on the dole as they couldn't afford to commute anymore! They're now looking at emigrating.

It's getting totally out of hand!

gbee

Solair wrote: »

The petrol/diesel prices must, at this stage, be having a very negative effect on the economy.

I know of two people who had to give up work and go on the dole as they couldn't afford to commute anymore!

Add me to this list too.

skelliser

70% of a litre of petrol goes is tax.

expect a litre of petrol to cost 2euro plus by years end.

skelliser

skelliser wrote: »

70% of a litre of petrol goes is tax.

expect a litre of petrol to cost 2euro plus by years end.

For petrol to exceed €2 a litre, expect Brent oil to exceed $220 a barrel first.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-29/global-fuel-demand-outside-iran-outstrips-supply-u-s-says-1-.html

Excluding Iran from the global oil market would increase the shortfall between worldwide supply and demand sixfold, based on February production and consumption estimates, the U.S. Energy Department said.

Global fuel use averaged 3 million barrels a day more than output when Iran is excluded from the calculations and 500,000 more when Iran is included, the department’s Energy Information Administration said in a report yesterday.

We're using it up quicker than we're getting it out of the ground!

gbee

jackdock88 wrote: »

The price of petrol in terms of silver has actually fallen in the past ten years

Silver is resuable, and in fact in some processes silver is a by-product and somewhat renewable despite a finite stock level. The Silver and Gold that you might have on your hand could have been part of an ancient Aztec ornament.

The fuel is a use once product and is not a safe investment. If your vault of silver is nuked you can [theoretically] recover the silver, not so your oil reserves.

Dubit10

Makes me laugh when i hear people moaning about the price of petrol/diesel. You folks do realise it is form of energy that we are running out of and the price will never drop but will rise at a constant level until the human race makes a genuine effort to solve the energy crisis.

That said i do feel sorry for people who have bought houses out in the sticks and have to drive hundreds of miles a week just to go to work. I think they will have many many years of heartbreak regarding prices as many are stuck in negative equity land and will never sell their home.

gbee

Dubit10 wrote: »

Makes me laugh when i hear people moaning about the price of petrol/diesel.

It's not funny ha, ha, it's ironic because our dependence on oil was more or less forced on us by government and industry forces, governments seeing revenue coming in many streams, not least the manufacture of a product that would draw billions and sales tax on those products drawing even more billions and then a constant flow of capitol as people actually used those products.

The US petrodollar is the key, untill they can force every one to buy their nuclear energy in dollars, we'll never have viable alternatives.

Alternatives have existed since the early 1970's any R&D in any university campus in any part of the world could tell you how projects were shut down for a various reasons.

Cantona's Collars

gbee wrote: »

It's not funny ha, ha, it's ironic because our dependence on oil was more or less forced on us by government and industry forces, governments seeing revenue coming in many streams, not least the manufacture of a product that would draw billions and sales tax on those products drawing even more billions and then a constant flow of capitol as people actually used those products.

The US petrodollar is the key, untill they can force every one to buy their nuclear energy in dollars, we'll never have viable alternatives.

Alternatives have existed since the early 1970's any R&D in any university campus in any part of the world could tell you how projects were shut down for a various reasons.

Too many vested interests are making too much money from oil to allow a swift change to alternative fuel sources.Brazil seems to be the only one to use alternative fuel on a major scale but the drawback is damage to the environment by the farming methods used in the production of the oil.

The world is full of so called inventions that can replace oil, so far none have been proven to work in the real world.

There is no conspiracy, just lack of realistic alternatives, people cling on to this notian that oil will eventually be replaced by something better, but it won't!

We'll just have to adapt to that fact, in the meantime, there's no harm in trying to find the alternative energy source, just don't hold your breath!

shedweller

zerks wrote: »

gbee wrote: »

Too many vested interests are making too much money from oil to allow a swift change to alternative fuel sources.Brazil seems to be the only one to use alternative fuel on a major scale but the drawback is damage to the environment by the farming methods used in the production of the oil.

I read somewhere that argentina uses something like 3% of their arable land for 90% or so of their fuel requirement. They use sugar cane instead of corn as it yields way more ethanol per acre.

Could something like that work here? Getting sugar cane to grow here may be tricky.

Bullseye1

You have to wonder if that 70% take the government (and similar percentage in other countries) is a major reason why no new source of running a car has not been found.

Cantona's Collars

shedweller wrote: »

zerks wrote: »

I read somewhere that argentina uses something like 3% of their arable land for 90% or so of their fuel requirement. They use sugar cane instead of corn as it yields way more ethanol per acre.

Could something like that work here? Getting sugar cane to grow here may be tricky.

Rape seed oil can be used as fuel but uptake has been slow,afaik one of the main producers in Wexford closed down because of it,I'd say it'll become more popular as the price of traditional fuel keeps rising.

shedweller

shedweller wrote: »

I read somewhere that argentina uses something like 3% of their arable land for 90% or so of their fuel requirement. They use sugar cane instead of corn as it yields way more ethanol per acre.

Could something like that work here? Getting sugar cane to grow here may be tricky.

I think that you're referring to Brazil and those figures only work because there is plenty of space to grow the stuff, one of the reasons that the Amazon forests are disappearing!

Ireland used to have a sugar beet industry until about a few years ago, so it's possible to grow sugar here.

rossie1977

Deleted User wrote: »

For petrol to exceed €2 a litre, expect Brent oil to exceed $220 a barrel first.

hmm i dunno about that, again like i said the other day i was in tenerife last week and there prices are under a euro in many places, i saw unleaded available for 92.5c a litre in san isidro a town just past the airport

this is spain, this is a country in just as bad a situation as us and they too are in the euro and as far as i know not a major producer or supplier of oil

we are getting raped blind by taxes here (not just on petrol btw)

DanWall

40 years ago people did not have cars and life went on, we now build houses out in the sticks away from bus routes and a car is a must.
We have so many fields/grassland in Ireland doing nothing, why is it we are not producing Bio fuel?

An Ri rua

Are people born on 1st April i.e. April Fool's Day more likely to be more foolish than the rest of us?

I think I'm spotting a micro-trend on Boards.

Chuck Stone

Deleted User wrote: »

The world is full of so called inventions that can replace oil, so far none have been proven to work in the real world.

I think it should be noted that the oil industry is over one hundred years old and resources have been used in such a way as they have facilitated the development of oil powered technology.

The public building of roads and the funding of the military/security that keeps the oil flowing is essentially a public subsidy to the oil and associated auto manufacturing industries.

The US interstate and the German Autobahns were built before there were enough cars to truly justify their construction. They were in effect socialist, government driven and owned ventures that the auto industry and thus oil business benefited from.

The Interstate Highway System had been lobbied for by major U.S. automobile manufacturers and championed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was influenced by his experiences as a young Army officer crossing the country in the 1919 Army Convoy on the Lincoln Highway, the first road across America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think it should be noted that the oil industry is over one hundred years old and resources have been used in such a way as they have facilitated the development of oil powered technology.

The public building of roads and the funding of the military/security that keeps the oil flowing is essentially a public subsidy to the oil and associated auto manufacturing industries.

The US interstate and the German Autobahns were built before there were enough cars to truly justify their construction. They were in effect socialist, government driven and owned ventures that the auto industry and thus oil business benefited from.

Yes I don't dispute that, but the fact is that oil used to be cheap and plentiful, it isn't anymore.

The rules have changed, people need to adapt to these changes before it's too late!

gbee

Deleted User wrote: »

people need to adapt to these changes before it's too late!

People can't do it. People use the technology they are given, at one time it was solely the horse, and then coal and then steam, all three existed together for a while but diesel was pushed forward as the 'cleaner' alternative to the back breaking labour etc, etc, you've heard it all before already.

gbee

gbee wrote: »

People can't do it. People use the technology they are given, at one time it was solely the horse, and then coal and then steam, all three existed together for a while but diesel was pushed forward as the 'cleaner' alternative to the back breaking labour etc, etc, you've heard it all before already.

Yes, people won't do it, until there is no alternative, but we're about a century away from there being insufficient oil for anyone at all.

In the meantime, the amount that each person will have access to is declining, that is the change that people will need to get to grips with soon.

Increased vehicle efficiency will only go so far, then for many it wil be shared/public transport or no transport at all.

It will be like the 1950s again where many "average industrial wage" workers had (motor)bikes, the managers had cars as they could affort to fill them up!

stevenf17

€1.66 at Topaz in Bray this eveing! up from €1.64 :eek:
Wouldn't be at all suprised if we see €1.70 by the end of the month!