New Bus for London launched today (Route 38 Hackney-Victoria only).

LordSutch

Just wondering if anybody has seen it or been for a ride on it yet?



Launched today on Route 38 (Hackney-Victoria), just one bus for now, with seven more in the pipeline this spring, & more to follow later this year? Its the new Hop on Hop off bus which replaces the old Routemaster (which was taken out of service in 2005). Mayor Boris Johnson said he would introduce the New Routemaster, and he has )

BraziliaNZ

how do they work? I was on one years ago, 1996, but can't remember how it worked. Do you just jump on whenever they are stopped in traffic? Do they have stops?

83ste

After wondering whether I would see this, it now turns out it drives down Shaftesbury Avenue at the Queen's theatre at almost exactly the same time that I walk past there every morning on the way to work. So the novelty's gone already.

djpbarry

LordSutch wrote: »

Just wondering if anybody has seen it or been for a ride on it yet?

Absolutely ridiculous waste of money - these things cost about 7 - 8 times more than a conventional double-decker. And they need to be staffed by a conductor. Is London public transport not expensive enough already?

afatbollix

they cost about 3 times more and have twice the MPG of old buses. More space and quicker loading and unloading times.

They look cool too. I like it and want more of them.

who the fug

djpbarry wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous waste of money - these things cost about 7 - 8 times more than a conventional double-decker. And they need to be staffed by a conductor. Is London public transport not expensive enough already?

Ahem, no conductor just a security walla


Waste of money what about getting rid of the route masters after they had put new engines in them, with a bus unsuitable for central London

afatbollix

You can thank good old Ken for that.

Fysh

If we're going to argue about the value for money aspect of these buses, I demand that the argument take the form of internet peen size comparison citation-based number comparisons. It's easy to say "waste of bloody money", but without context it's also meaningless.

who the fug

Fysh wrote: »

If we're going to argue about the value for money aspect of these buses, I demand that the argument take the form of internet peen size comparison citation-based number comparisons. It's easy to say "waste of bloody money", but without context it's also meaningless.

This is London, Routemaster Rocks , Ken is a Cock, Boris is a Knob.


And us plebs get shafted

djpbarry

Fysh wrote: »

If we're going to argue about the value for money aspect of these buses, I demand that the argument take the form of internet peen size comparison citation-based number comparisons.

There's a nice summary of the figures here - I've seen similar numbers elsewhere. It seems the figure I quoted above was essentially for the prototypes, but once mass production kicks in, the routemaster is still expected to be at least 50% more expensive than a conventional bus. Granted, this doesn't factor in running costs, but I find it hard to believe that the cost of fuel, for example, could make up the difference, especially when we consider that perfectly good buses are being replaced.

It's a vanity project, plain and simple, and I find it hard to believe that it won't result in higher ticket prices.

Fysh

djpbarry wrote: »

There's a nice summary of the figures here - I've seen similar numbers elsewhere. It seems the figure I quoted above was essentially for the prototypes, but once mass production kicks in, the routemaster is still expected to be at least 50% more expensive than a conventional bus. Granted, this doesn't factor in running costs, but I find it hard to believe that the cost of fuel, for example, could make up the difference, especially when we consider that perfectly good buses are being replaced.

It's a vanity project, plain and simple, and I find it hard to believe that it won't result in higher ticket prices.

Well, without knowing running costs it's hard to say anything with any certainty The impact of better fuel efficiency will depend on how long the new buses are kept in operation compared to the old ones.

Playing Devil's Apricot - even if it is a vanity project...if it's a high-profile vanity project that plays into the general marketing of London as a tourist destination, who's to say the Routemaster couldn't become part of London's iconography alongside the Houses of Parliament, the Eye, the ButtplugGherkin and Big Ben?

Bigus

They are a lot more enviromentally friendly with much reduced emissions and they are potentially a tourist attraction also they are built in Northern Ireland keeping the extra cost in the UK

afatbollix

djpbarry wrote: »

There's a nice summary of the figures here - I've seen similar numbers elsewhere. It seems the figure I quoted above was essentially for the prototypes, but once mass production kicks in, the routemaster is still expected to be at least 50% more expensive than a conventional bus. Granted, this doesn't factor in running costs, but I find it hard to believe that the cost of fuel, for example, could make up the difference, especially when we consider that perfectly good buses are being replaced.

It's a vanity project, plain and simple, and I find it hard to believe that it won't result in higher ticket prices.

It's not 50% highter just 50k higher than a bendy bus. They say they get twice the amount of mpg so they will use half the amount of diesel I'm not great at Maths but it should pay for itself within a few years.

Also the new bus will only be used in zone 1 where people only use the bus for very shot journeys as they use the tube for longer journeys. So a hop on and off bus will work a lot better as people can get on or off when traffic gets bad and finish the journey on foot.

djpbarry

afatbollix wrote: »

It's not 50% highter just 50k higher than a bendy bus.

I said they're 50% higher than a conventional double-decker, a more relevant comparison if these new routemasters are going to be rolled out en masse.

afatbollix wrote: »

They say they get twice the amount of mpg so they will use half the amount of diesel I'm not great at Maths but it should pay for itself within a few years.

I would be amazed if it did.

Here's a paper from UCL on the subject. The principle conclusion is:

We find that fuel and emissions savings alone do not provide a compelling case for hybrid buses based on current prices. However, as the cost of fuel rises, and when the social and environmental impacts of motor vehicle use are better accounted for, hybrid technology outperforms conventional diesel technology

If you want to replace retired vehicles with hybrids, you might have an argument for doing so (assuming fuel costs rise over the new hybrid's lifetime), but replacing perfectly good buses with hybrids makes absolutely no economic sense.

LordSutch

I think the New Bus For London really fits the bill (excuse the pun), an electric bus with a 4.5 liter generator under the stairs,
this then charges the batteries that power the electric motor, pretty cool eh! In reality when these things go into full production
they expect them to be in the order of £315k each, and if Boris is re elected expect to see many more of these on London's streets . . .



Picture: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-a4ouGwmwQkA/T0vWdxK86oI/AAAAAAAADYk/RP6b092ujfE/s640/IMG_0082.jpg
Picture: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7197/6790122342_bc9f7ec4c4.jpg
Picture: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6790635222_83ed78d740_b.jpg
Picture: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6936804697_7840818a73_b.jpg
Picture: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Sg7KkCQjdsM/T0uZ0INdI4I/AAAAAAAAEv0/G_FhqiIlMwg/s1600/RM2.JPG

I think the NBFL is a fitting replacement to the old 1950s designed Routemaster,
(and its unique to London) can't wait for it to be rolled out across the London network.

snowfinch

Passed one this morning at Victoria. Can confirm they look nice, shiny and snazzy IRL!

djpbarry

LordSutch wrote: »

...when these things go into full production
they expect them to be in the order of £315k each...

Which is pretty expensive?

I'm clearly missing something here - what is so amazing about these things? They're just buses?

afatbollix

djpbarry wrote: »

Which is pretty expensive?

I'm clearly missing something here - what is so amazing about these things? They're just buses?

Its only 0.003% of the yearly TFL budget. I would say they spend more on cleaning toilets than on these new buses! Its a tiny amount that they might as well spend a extra few grand to get it built in the UK / NI.

Sorry for keep going on it I just like the bus and want to get everyone to like them

LordSutch

So its nearly four years since the New Routemasters arrived in London ...

So how are they doing? - do you love them, or hate them? - are they nice to travel on?

They certainly look all shiny & curvy when you see them on the TV.



Loads of new routes using them since my first post!

BrokenArrows

Its a bus. End of discussion.

LordSutch

A battery powered bus if you will, with two staircases, three sets of doors, and a hop on, hop off rear platform!

..but yes, it is just a bus

S.M.B.

I think they're great, apart from the lack of windows during the summer which I believe they are rectifying.

And that's coming from someone who hates bussing around the city.