Connor Murray - Kidney's new TOL?

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

What has that got to do with Murray. You're talking about taking kicks when this is a thread about a scrum-half. They are two completely different things.

my point was sexton had a few bad games and he was given time to get confidence murray needs the same

Higher

Benny Cake wrote: »

Funny thing is, if Leinster were playing France at the weekend, Schmidt would start Boss. Maybe he'll get a callup

Schmidt starts Boss because he organizes the pack well in tight, physical games. If you were going by the same logic then Murray is the last person you'd start because he gets sucked in too often and doesn't make good decisions.

Higher

jm08 wrote: »

fixed that for you.

You didn't see marshall at the weekend then

What game was he good in? I am still waiting for an answer on that one...

phog

Higher wrote: »

O.K so take one MOTM away if it makes you feel better.

Who was meant to be clutching at straws again?



Also you didnt answer my question, can you name one game where Murray was good for Ireland?

My point is that the others could have been awarded for similar reasons.

danthefan

This is so reminiscent of people who wanted TOL to keep starting for Ireland, despite the fact it was so blatantly obvious he wasn't up to it. This fixture in 2010 was when TOL really showed just how poor he was, hopefully the same doesn't happen to Murray.

On the Sexton/ROG thing, I will make this comment and this comment only: Since Sexton began getting starts for Ireland, we have beaten SA, Aus, England, Wales in games he's started. In the same period, when ROG has started, the best team we've beaten is Italy.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

you are the one who started the circular argument about patterson .:rolleyes:

straight question - do you think getting your kicks can win a match and if you do, who is the designated kicker for ireland?

Straight answer, it depends.
You can play a game dependent on forcing penalties, and when you do, you need a kicker. For this gameplan you need structure, a very very strong set piece and a bit of luck.

You can also play a game based on beating the other team. Scoring tries and keeping the ball alive.

Like it or not, we have one out half really very good at one gameplan, and one really very good at the other. We also don't have a lineout that can compete, rule changes since 2009 have utterly diminished the maul as a weapon, and tackler law changes have made it far harder to simply soak pressure up.

Basically, the game that ROG practically invented is not a strategy that we can follow as we don't have the players, an the rules have changed.

I'm oversimplifying everything to avoid confusion, but we've all read, posted, agreed, disagreed with this many times before, so I'm not bothered giving you the full work through.

Hyperbullet

Higher wrote: »

developing players for the WC is doing things like giving POM 10 mins off the bench or giving O'Malley 20minutes at centre.

Isn't this what Kidney is doing with Murray at the moment? What was your motivation for starting this thread exactly?

there is no point in continuing this thread just looked at highers post history and every single post is pro leinester/anti munster ruins the point of these posts when people blindly follow province in my opinion murray to start v france and reddan to come on an 55-60.

its been emotional gents enjoy the debate

Hagz

Maliyah Fast Spike wrote: »

my point was sexton had a few bad games and he was given time to get confidence murray needs the same

It's not the same though is it. Sexton was still performing to an acceptable standard at out-half. It was his kicking that was the problem, (And I don't think I can explain one more time how those things are different without crying). Murray isn't kicking poorly, he's playing poorly. Sexton's poor kicking wasn't detrimental to the team, whereas Murray's poor form is. The whole back line got front-foot ball when Reddan came on. It's just not possible to compare a few missed kicks with slow ball.

EDIT: just to finish up, you talk about Murray being given time to get confidence. If Murray starts next week, he will have started more games in a row than Sexton has his whole career.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes he has been. He was bad against the USA, he was poor against Australia when he came on (think I've watched that game about 20x at this stage!), he awful against Wales, he was poor against Castres and terrible against Northampton this season. He was poor against Wales a couple of weeks ago and was poor again against Italy last weekend.

I think there are a number of contributing factors. Himself and Sexton do not suit each other at all. Sexton is the best out half in Europe but looks a shadow of that player when Murray is at 9.

One factor is his decision making. The time available to half backs is even less at international level and it is showing him up big time. Peter Stringer was the master of moving the ball away from contact immediately. He would come into the contact area knowing exactly where his first receiver is so that by the time he gets to the ball he could play it away from the base immediately. Murray is slow to the breakdown because of his terrible judgement. This means that he has even less time to work out where everyone is and where the ball should be going. By the time he gets there he then has to stop and look for his first receiver, by which time the opposition defense can organise itself. At this point the first receiver has far fewer options. This suits O'Gara down to the ground because he has played a kicking game all his life. Sexton on the other hand is clearly getting frustrated by the number of opportunities this is costing him in his running game. Conversely to this, Reddan and Sexton are so used to each other that Reddan is far more comfortable with what he should be doing, and so when he arrives at the base (even if he is slow as he sometimes is) he knows exactly where to get the ball to. I think the familiarity issue and the decision making issue go hand in hand.

With O'Gara, who is now the inferior 10, so we should really be looking at what he has done in our best combination.
Really don't know where this has come from. I never compared anyone to Phillips, nor do I rate Phillips very highly.


We've only played well against top opposition with Reddan at scrum half and Sexton at out half since 2009. Possible exception being TOL/Sexton v. Wales in 2010.


Why Murray ever started in the first place over a player with Reddan's talent and credentials is a mystery, although having spoken to Don Reddan it does seem there are personal issues there to some extent. I wouldn't like to think this would really affect selection but I really do not see any other reason for the mistakes up to this point.

you forgot to mention that Murray was the match winner against scarlets in the heineken cup (and man of the match). reddan is also prone to doing some very poor things. Not too sure how long it would have taken a fresh italian team to pick up on reddan and his predictability in always tap and going (even in his own 22) and passing. how many incerpt tries has he been responsbile for at international level?

reddan is fine in his cameos but when he starts he can look very poor. his performance against the all blacks in lansdowne road was shocking. they just ran through him all day and that is the problem with him. he doesn't have the physicality and why schmidt mainly uses boss when up against a big physical team like france.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

It's not the same though is it. Sexton was still performing to an acceptable standard at out-half. It was his kicking that was the problem, (And I don't think I can explain one more time how those things are different without crying). Murray isn't kicking poorly, he's playing poorly. Sexton's poor kicking wasn't detrimental to the team, whereas Murray's poor form is. The whole back line got front-foot ball when Reddan came on. It's just not possible to compare a few missed kicks with slow ball.

Not true - in his first six nations his game control was very poor, its not brilliant yet, but he is getting there. everyone was giving out because he kept kicking the ball away. some even claimed that kidney was making him kick. :rolleyes:

and you are having a laugh if you think sexton's missing points was not detrimental to the team - they kill themselves winning a penalty and the kicker misses it

skregs

Murray has shown he can't perform at the highest level. Why should he be given more leniency than Toner, Caldwell or Coughlan ever got.

If he can't earn that jersey, he shouldn't have it, simple as.

danthefan

jm08 wrote: »

you forgot to mention that Murray was the match winner against scarlets in the heineken cup (and man of the match). reddan is also prone to doing some very poor things. Not too sure how long it would have taken a fresh italian team to pick up on reddan and his predictability in always tap and going (even in his own 22) and passing. how many incerpt tries has he been responsbile for at international level?

reddan is fine in his cameos but when he starts he can look very poor. his performance against the all blacks in lansdowne road was shocking. they just ran through him all day and that is the problem with him. he doesn't have the physicality and why schmidt mainly uses boss when up against a big physical team like france.

The whole point of tapping and going is that whether they know or not whether he's going to do it, they can't stop him because it concedes another penalty. Which is why he does it when there tends to be a big clump of players right in front of him who are all offside. So nonsense point there. In fact you're attempting to criticise him for something that worked effectively.

Secondly, on the NZ game, you're just making things up.

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

Not true - in his first six nations his game control was very poor, its not brilliant yet, but he is getting there. everyone was giving out because he kept kicking the ball away. some even claimed that kidney was making him kick. :rolleyes:

and you are having a laugh if you think sexton's missing points was not detrimental to the team - they kill themselves winning a penalty and the kicker misses it

If you can't figure out the difference between your kicker not taking all his points and your scrum-half giving you slow ball then just don't worry about it. It' not like the two points are even relatable.

Anyway, I still think Murray should start as I think it's important to let him learn and develop with an eye to the future. I just think it's madness to compare it with Sexton's poor form off the tee. They're so alien from one another.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

EDIT: just to finish up, you talk about Murray being given time to get confidence. If Murray starts next week, he will have started more games in a row than Sexton has his whole career.

sexton has started 6 in a row (aus, sa, Nz, argintina, italy & france). he also missed a few games through injury.

if murray starts next week, it will be his 5th game to start in a row:

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

sexton has started 6 in a row (aus, sa, Nz, argintina, italy & france). he also missed a few games through injury.

if murray starts next week, it will be his 5th game to start in a row:

Fraid not:D There was a Samoa game in between the SA and the NZ game. Bazinga.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

you forgot to mention that Murray was the match winner against scarlets in the heineken cup (and man of the match). reddan is also prone to doing some very poor things. Not too sure how long it would have taken a fresh italian team to pick up on reddan and his predictability in always tap and going (even in his own 22) and passing. how many incerpt tries has he been responsbile for at international level?

reddan is fine in his cameos but when he starts he can look very poor. his performance against the all blacks in lansdowne road was shocking. they just ran through him all day and that is the problem with him. he doesn't have the physicality and why schmidt mainly uses boss when up against a big physical team like france.

This is all just rubbish though to be fair.

1. Conor Murray deserved that MOTM award about as much as Sexton deserved it on Saturday. It was his best performance for Munster, but that is a seriously bad thing to say.

2. Reddan is predictable... by tapping and going the odd time? Do you not see how stupid that sounds? The tap and go is exactly what adds variety. The first thing he did when he came onto the field against Italy was break the line... something Murray never managed despite trying at the worst times possible all day and conceding possession more than once. This is an incredibly dull point to make.

4. I find it hard to believe you watched the ABs game at all if that's what you took away from it. An unbelieveably inaccurate depiction of one of the few good performances we've managed since 2009.

jm08

danthefan wrote: »

The whole point of tapping and going is that whether they know or not whether he's going to do it, they can't stop him because it concedes another penalty. Which is why he does it when there tends to be a big clump of players right in front of him who are all offside. So nonsense point there. In fact you're attempting to criticise him for something that worked effectively.

Secondly, on the NZ game, you're just making things up.

It worked on saturday. but i'e seen it not working - a lot.

would you like to give your analysis of reddan's performance in that game rather than some smart alec comeback.

pappyodaniel

I rewatched the game, did he really play as bad as some of the comments made here? In a word, no. He made a few mistakes alright but nothing that says he should be dropped for an inferior scrum half in Eoin Reddan. Murray has never finished a game for Ireland and I imagine this can slowly creep into a players psyche (I went through this myself in my playing days) whereby he knows, no matter how well he's playing he will be substituted around the hour mark. As a result he will almost try too hard to make things happen.

With more experience will come more maturity. For me he is the best prospect I've seen in the Irish scrum half position in my life time. Reddan is grand, but Murray could be special. I believe Kidney gets a hard time for not selecting young players so I think it would be a negative thing for him to drop him just when it looks like Sexton is finally settling into his role in the pivotal position of outhalf. Now he's gonna have to bring in more guys. I'd like to see Dom Ryan, Eoin O'Malley, Dave Kearney and Simon Zebo given opportunities sooner rather than later.

danthefan

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I rewatched the game, did he really play as bad as some of the comments made here? In a word, no. He made a few mistakes alright but nothing that says he should be dropped for an inferior scrum half in Eoin Reddan. Murray has never finished a game for Ireland and I imagine this can slowly creep into a players psyche (I went through this myself in my playing days) whereby he knows, no matter how well he's playing he will be substituted around the hour mark. As a result he will almost try too hard to make things happen.

With more experience will come more maturity. For me he is the best prospect I've seen in the Irish scrum half position in my life time. Reddan is grand, but Murray could be special. I believe Kidney gets a hard time for not selecting young players so I think it would be a negative thing for him to drop him just when it looks like Sexton is finally settling into his role in the pivotal position of outhalf. Now he's gonna have to bring in more guys. I'd like to see Dom Ryan, Eoin O'Malley, Dave Kearney and Simon Zebo given opportunities sooner rather than later.

It wasn't about mistakes, it was about being horribly slow to make decisions and move the ball.

Tox56

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I rewatched the game, did he really play as bad as some of the comments made here? In a word, no. He made a few mistakes alright but nothing that says he should be dropped for an inferior scrum half in Eoin Reddan. Murray has never finished a game for Ireland and I imagine this can slowly creep into a players psyche (I went through this myself in my playing days) whereby he knows, no matter how well he's playing he will be substituted around the hour mark. As a result he will almost try too hard to make things happen.

With more experience will come more maturity. For me he is the best prospect I've seen in the Irish scrum half position in my life time. Reddan is grand, but Murray could be special. I believe Kidney gets a hard time for not selecting young players so I think it would be a negative thing for him to drop him just when it looks like Sexton is finally settling into his role in the pivotal position of outhalf. Now he's gonna have to bring in more guys. I'd like to see Dom Ryan, Eoin O'Malley, Dave Kearney and Simon Zebo given opportunities sooner rather than later.

Definitely a matter of opinion. Maybe more potential but better? Arguable.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Not true - in his first six nations his game control was very poor, its not brilliant yet, but he is getting there. everyone was giving out because he kept kicking the ball away. some even claimed that kidney was making him kick. :rolleyes:

and you are having a laugh if you think sexton's missing points was not detrimental to the team - they kill themselves winning a penalty and the kicker misses it

Assuming that the attacking team has WON the penalty, and not the defending team CONCEDING? Ebbs and flows. The aim of Rugby is to achieve more scores than the other team. Penalties are bonuses.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is all just rubbish though to be fair.

1. Conor Murray deserved that MOTM award about as much as Sexton deserved it on Saturday. It was his best performance for Munster, but that is a seriously bad thing to say.

2. Reddan is predictable... by tapping and going the odd time? Do you not see how stupid that sounds? The tap and go is exactly what adds variety. The first thing he did when he came onto the field against Italy was break the line... something Murray never managed despite trying at the worst times possible all day and conceding possession more than once. This is an incredibly dull point to make.

4. I find it hard to believe you watched the ABs game at all if that's what you took away from it. An unbelieveably inaccurate depiction of one of the few good performances we've managed since 2009.

1. whether he deserved motm or not, its obvious he wasn't as poor as some people are trying to make out here.

2. reddan gets turned over easily. (example is he got turned over against Munster in teh magners final with a quick tap and go which resulted in munster getting another try). by the way, no one is mentioning how poor reddan was in the head to head in the magners final and schmidt started Boss in the most recent game with munster in the aviva for the magners.

4. are you crazy. the abs put 20 points on us at home against a full team. the performance in new zealand down to 14 men (when Heislip was carded) was a better performance.

danthefan

jm08 wrote: »

4. are you crazy. the abs put 20 points on us at home against a full team. the performance in new zealand down to 14 men (when Heislip was carded) was a better performance.

W.

T.

F.

pappyodaniel

danthefan wrote: »

It wasn't about mistakes, it was about being horribly slow to make decisions and move the ball.

Reddan was never one to inspire confidence when it came to this. Before Murray came along I was always more for Reddan over TO'L, Boss and Stringer so I have no agenda on this one. I feel we have a potential Lions scrum half in Murray and I feel his form isn't so bad he should be dropped.

Tox56 wrote: »

Definitely a matter of opinion. Maybe more potential but better? Arguable.

When I say inferior it isn't meant to slate Eoin Reddan. We have seen plenty of him over the last few years and when given chances to nail down the no9 jersey when his competition for the jersey was TO'L and Stringer he never took it. Oh, and please don't say he had to fight Kidney as well!

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

1. whether he deserved motm or not, its obvious he wasn't as poor as some people are trying to make out here.

2. reddan gets turned over easily. (example is he got turned over against Munster in teh magners final with a quick tap and go which resulted in munster getting another try). by the way, no one is mentioning how poor reddan was in the head to head in the magners final and schmidt started Boss in the most recent game with munster in the aviva for the magners.

4. are you crazy. the abs put 20 points on us at home against a full team. the performance in new zealand down to 14 men (when Heislip was carded) was a better performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nZH6lLpI

Here you go. Look at Ferris' try. That is a scrum half doing his job. I don't know if you're aware of what that is supposed to look like.

Tox56

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Reddan was never one to inspire confidence when it came to this. Before Murray came along I was always more for Reddan over TO'L, Boss and Stringer so I have no agenda on this one. I feel we have a potential Lions scrum half in Murray and I feel his form isn't so bad he should be dropped.




When I say inferior it isn't meant to slate Eoin Reddan. We have seen plenty of him over the last few years and when given chances to nail down the no9 jersey when his competition for the jersey was TO'L and Stringer he never took it. Oh, and please don't say he had to fight Kidney as well!

I'm not quite sure how that proves Reddan is an inferior player to Murray.

Murray should be given time at club level to work himself up to a top class European player, like Sexton proved with Leinster. Throwing him in here for his education is detrimental to Ireland in the short term, and for Murray in the long term.

I think he should go through the process all other new squad members have gone through, stay on the bench, come on for some experience of 15-20 mins, learn his game through the HEC and Pro 12, and eventually take over at SH, older and wiser. You get the feeling his relationship with Sexton is being forced, and he is being thrown in the deep end.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Assuming that the attacking team has WON the penalty, and not the defending team CONCEDING? Ebbs and flows. The aim of Rugby is to achieve more scores than the other team. Penalties are bonuses.

assuming nothing. if the points are presented (whether penalties or conversions), it is detrimental to the team's performance if the designated kicker isn't getting them.

danthefan

It's a very long time since Stringer was ahead of Reddan for Ireland, you're almost going back to the 2007 RWC then.

The fact he couldn't get ahead of TOL is entirely down to the continual jokeshop selection policy by Kidney, simple as that.

Clegg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nZH6lLpI

Here you go. Look at Ferris' try. That is a scrum half doing his job. I don't know if you're aware of what that is supposed to look like.

Perfect pop pass from Heaslip tbf

irishbucsfan

pappyodaniel wrote: »

When I say inferior it isn't meant to slate Eoin Reddan. We have seen plenty of him over the last few years and when given chances to nail down the no9 jersey when his competition for the jersey was TO'L and Stringer he never took it. Oh, and please don't say he had to fight Kidney as well!

What exactly HAVE we seen of him over the past few years though?

We saw him start at 9 when we played New Zealand that time and looked like we'd finally start playing a brand of rugby that can work under current rules. Then get dropped.

We saw him start at 9 when we beat England in our only good performance in the 6 Nations in 2011. Then get dropped.

We saw him start at 9 against Australia, arguably one of our most famous wins ever. Then get dropped.


He has done everything possible. I know for a fact there is history between himself and Kidney, but I know that sounds like conspirational rubbish and that's a fair enough conclusion to draw without any evidence to support it. Why exactly do you think he hasn't nailed down a spot so far?

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

assuming nothing. if the points are presented (whether penalties or conversions), it is detrimental to the team's performance if the designated kicker isn't getting them.

This is completely off topic. And a completely pointless conversation to have when the man you are attempting to discredit just had a great performance with the boot.

pappyodaniel

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He has done everything possible. I know for a fact there is history between himself and Kidney, but I know that sounds like conspirational rubbish and that's a fair enough conclusion to draw without any evidence to support it. Why exactly do you think he hasn't nailed down a spot so far?

My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.

danthefan

pappyodaniel wrote: »

My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.

Not really. TOL's form in the 2010 6N was as bad as it ever was, the France game in particular. He was persisted with for another full 12 months until he got injured in the 2011 6N.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2nZH6lLpI

Here you go. Look at Ferris' try. That is a scrum half doing his job. I don't know if you're aware of what that is supposed to look like.

and is it not the job of a scrumhalf to be able to tackle as well. Kanio ran over him for Read's try. He also missed a few others that didn't make the highlights.

Here is a sample of reddan tap and go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSa41aP0f8&feature=related

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

and is it not the job of a scrumhalf to be able to tackle as well. Kanio ran over him for Read's try. He also missed a few others that didn't make the highlights.

Here is a sample of reddan tap and go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSa41aP0f8&feature=related

Kaino handed off Ferris before that and passed before he even got to Reddan. I suppose Ferris can't tackle either.

If you want to select your 9s based on an ability to tackle Jerome Kaino in the open field then good luck finding one anywhere.

Reddan's defense has never been a problem. He used to be a headless possession waster and I hated him (and argued for Boss to start many times over him), but in 2010 he became a far better player thanks to good coaching and added experience and eventually went on to prove me wrong. Now he has a great and extremely succesful partnership with Sexton and has lead Ireland to their only decent performances against good opposition in recent times. (again apart from Wales 2010 imo)


And I would agree he wasn't great in the ML final. Neither were the rest of the team. They must have been busy the week before or something? Doesn't change the fact he's regularly shown himself to be a top scrum half at all levels.

pappyodaniel

pappyodaniel wrote: »

My only thought is that he hasn't shown a continuous patch of good form since his days playing scrum half for Wasps. When TO'L rapidly imploded and when Kidney finally had enough of him Murray had worked his way into the Munster XV and was putting in solid, confident performances. He was give his chance at International level and never looked phased by the big stage, unluckily for Reddan.

The last time T'OL played for Ireland Murray had played 9 games of pro rugby.

I'm unsure of your point though, Reddan and Murray are very different players. Murray a big physical player with usually a good boot, who takes a lot out of the ball.
Reddan an inconsistent player by his nature, try's thinks sometimes that he probably shouldn't have, but overall has had far far far far far more success with his games than failure.

Again, depending on the game we go for, one or the other is preferable. Against teams like Scotland and Italy, a strangle gameplan with Murray keeping us composed for a bit before we "unleash the mad dog", can work really very well. Slow attrition to break em down, before upping the tempo with Reddan.

If we go for that gameplan against France, I'm not sure how well it would work. I'd be very afraid that if it was tight, that we wouldn't see the substitution made, and we'd be gutting our own gameplan.

Foxtrol

What I can't fathom is what Murray has done to get preferential treatment when you compare him to other players trying to break into the Irish set up. Healy, SOB and Ross consistently outplayed their competition for prolonged periods at HC level and still were not given a proper look in until injuries to the starters (and the bench option in some cases).

I'm all for blooding young players but all the evidence of Kidney's reign as coach shows that he hasn't been, unless forced into the situation. Yes Murray has potential but so does many other young Irish players who have to pay their dues before making the squad. Apart from Kidney's apparent desire for a Mike Phillips clone, can anyone give me reasons why Murray is being chosen as the anointed sole young player that to parachute into the starting team with a handful of professional games?

skregs

jm08 wrote: »

1. whether he deserved motm or not, its obvious he wasn't as poor as some people are trying to make out here.

2. reddan gets turned over easily. (example is he got turned over against Munster in teh magners final with a quick tap and go which resulted in munster getting another try). by the way, no one is mentioning how poor reddan was in the head to head in the magners final and schmidt started Boss in the most recent game with munster in the aviva for the magners.

4. are you crazy. the abs put 20 points on us at home against a full team. the performance in new zealand down to 14 men (when Heislip was carded) was a better performance.

Several things are fairly clear from your posts:

1: You're a Munster fan.
2: Your experience of Leinster matches is exclusively based off Munster v Leinster matches in recent history.
3: You're about 13 years old and you really don't understand much about rugby from an on the field perspective.

No one is saying Murray is crap. People are saying he shouldn't be starting for Ireland because (a) he's slow to rucks, (b) he doesn't play the ball from the base of the ruck and (c) he tries to run the ball himself far too often, which is a fairly stupid thing for a SH to do.

RuggieBear

sigh