Sonnen vs Silva II

Zero-Cool

This is scheduled to take place in UFC 147 on June 2nd in Brazil but it's some way off yet. Just saw a class promo and really itching to see this fight. The realist in me thinks Silva is gonna make bits of him in this one to cement a victory and not win by a flukey triangle :rolleyes: but I really hope Sonnen winsso he can finally get rid of his pound shop belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZG0sNDa2JQ

El Guapo!

Chael didn't look extraordinarily impressive against Bisping and he'd need to put in a better performance than that against Silva. My worry for Chael would be that he'd buy into his own self-made hype and get caught up in all that rather than focusing on the job at hand. I don't think anything he says has an impact on Silva so smack talking would be wasting his breath as I don't think he'd even get a response from Anderson.
He'd be better off keeping his head down and training his arse off. If he comes out the way he did in their first fight then he has a real chance at finishing what he couldn't the first time but if he hasn't improved since Bisping then I think it could be a bad fight for him.

Silva is just on a different level to every other fighter on the planet. He was outstanding in his last few fights and everything he does seems effortless.

With the recent form of both fighters I'm gonna have to go with Silva for this one.

MrStuffins

Chael had Silva's number last time out but I can't see Chael doing the same again. I think we'll see Silva take this and in devestating fashion!

pauldoo

MrStuffins wrote: »

Chael had Silva's number last time out but I can't see Chael doing the same again. I think we'll see Silva take this and in devestating fashion!

yeah fully agree, chael dominated the first one, this time silva may be injury free and i think will destroy him fairly quickly

cowzerp

I don't believe Silva was injured v Sonnen-i simply don't think his wrestling is up to much and Chael's is top class, i think we will have more of the same as the last time, could end the same way too though.

nino1

cowzerp wrote: »

I don't believe Silva was injured v Sonnen-i simply don't think his wrestling is up to much and Chael's is top class, i think we will have more of the same as the last time, could end the same way too though.

i agree. out of the 14 ufc fights he had only come up against one decent wrestler in dan henderson and hendo had him in big trouble too in round 1.

silva has been extremely lucky not to be tested by top class wrestlers as much as he would have been in other weight divisions.

having said that i think he will have learned from the first encounter and ko sonnen this time.

nino1

"he wraps his legs around your head for 8 seconds and they call him the winner"

if i was fighting someone in the street and I triangle choke my opponent out, and he is lying unconsious on the ground and i am standing over him i would certainly call myself the winner no mater what had happened before that. thats not a parrallel world, that reality, something sonnen is not familiar with!

O.P.H

Not sure if the time from the last fight is enough time for Silva to become as good a wrestler as Sonnen and its much easier for a wrestler to impose his type of fight than a striker, so think it will be similar to last time only this time Sonnen wont make that same mistake as last time. There might be added pressure on Silva as well to preform in his back yard with the whole country watching him. I'm goin for Sonnen.

Rob01

I think Silva looked a shadow of himself in that fight, and credit has to be given to Sonnen for that, but even when he took him down, Silva still managed to cause a lot of damage to his face with some nasty elbows & punches from guard.

Also, as much as people say Silva's wrestling can't improve in the time since the first fight, the same can be said of Chael's submission defence (his whole career).

Same outcome for me in the re-match, except with Silva to land more strikes than he did previously before been taken down & then submitting Sonnen!

cowzerp

I think people are forgetting Sonnen outstruck Silva too and dropped him a couple of times, the main reason was Silva was so focused on Sonnens wrestling making it much easier for Sonnen to attack standing and wait for any opportunnity to get the take down, i don't see any change this time and actually think Silva will be more thinking about the takedowns and could get beat easier standing again.

Voodu Child

The problem with Sonnen is that he was never close to finishing Anderson despite dominating him. Silva did more damage from the bottom than Chael did from the top.

So he is looking at spending another 25 minutes in the cage with Silva. That's a dangerous amount of time to spend in a cage with Silva. He is the best for a reason and given that amount of time he will find an opening sooner or later.

I see this fight going the same way, Sonnen will get takedowns and keep Silva down but that's all he'll do, and sooner or later he will get KOd or submitted.

Also Sonnen was only 3 for 7 in takedown success against Silva. And the rib injury was legit; it's shown in the Like Water documentary. Along with this gem:

Zero-Cool

Ya Sonnen hasn't a hope of finishing Silva but he already proved he can go 5 rounds. Even though Silva did more damage, that fight would have gone to Sonnen if it wasn't for that pesky bjj stuff. Sonned could do the same again, just be more careful of subs. Saying that, I don't think Silva will take the chance of going 5 rounds and will enter matrix mode by round 2.

Also, I think Sonnen will lose due to massacre by the Brazillian public.

Rob01

sheehy83 wrote: »

not win by a flukey triangle :rolleyes:

sheehy83 wrote: »

Even though Silva did more damage, that fight would have gone to Sonnen if it wasn't for that pesky bjj stuff.

Silva pulls of a beautiful triangle armbar & it's flukey and pesky?

I hope your joking & I'm just after chomping at the bit :pac:

Zero-Cool

About as serious as the Nog bros feeding carrots to a bus

El Guapo!

sheehy83 wrote: »

About as serious as the Nog bros feeding carrots to a bus

That was a true story!

Dancor

Head says silva

Heart says sonnen

bret69

nino1 wrote: »

i agree. out of the 14 ufc fights he had only come up against one decent wrestler in dan henderson and hendo had him in big trouble too in round 1.

silva has been extremely lucky not to be tested by top class wrestlers as much as he would have been in other weight divisions.

having said that i think he will have learned from the first encounter and ko sonnen this time.

I've heard that a lot but I think it's unfair to Silva. He's had 14 fights in the UFC and has faced a good mix and variety of opponents.

He fought BJJ specialists in Thales Leites, Travis Lutter and Demian Maia, strikers in Vitor Belfort, Patrick Cote and Chris Leben and wrestlers in Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt and Chael Sonnen.

That leaves us with James Irvin, Yushin Okami, Forrest Griffin and Rich Franklin, who are a little harder to define.

Regardless of where you put them, I think it's fair to say Silva has fought all sorts throughout his 14 fight career.

Zero-Cool

Dean09 wrote: »

sheehy83 wrote: »

About as serious as the Nog bros feeding carrots to a bus

That was a true story!

When chael starts with 'This is a true story' you know it's gonna be gold!
pity that bet isnt going ahead, sonnen wins, silva leaves division our sonnen loses and he retires. Would make it even more interesting than it already is.

Unique User Name

Silva for certain! I should be in Brazil when this is on so hoping to pick up some tickets to see it live. Wish they'd decide on a date and venue soon so I could book my flights!!

nino1

bret69 wrote: »

He fought BJJ specialists in Thales Leites, Travis Lutter and Demian Maia, strikers in Vitor Belfort, Patrick Cote and Chris Leben and wrestlers in Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt and Chael Sonnen.

.

i wouldn't class nate marquardt as an out and out wrestler like henderson and sonnen. i'll class him as a very good all rounder like franklin and griffin.

that leaves two wrestlers out of 14 which is still much lower than the number of wrestlers he would have faced in any other weight division.

themandan6611

if sonnen gets a haircut I think he can take it

Mellor

Voodu Child wrote: »

Also Sonnen was only 3 for 7 in takedown success against Silva.

Remember, you brought up the stats.

He was actually 2/6 in TDs. The other 1/1 refers to a clinch. We can call this a take down if you like, as thats where silva ended up. The times it went to the ground in later rounds Sonnen actually dropped him with strikes and followed him down. Lets look at that striking.

Sonnen outstruck Silva 320 to 64, exactly 5:1 ratio.
Over 250 strikes were to the head of Silva.
In terms of significant strikes it was 89 to 29.

Sonnen was on his way to win, not only was it 50-45, it was crystal clear. That was unheard of vrs Silva. No matter what you think of Sonnen, and his chances vrs Silva, that alone deserves respect. Sonnen has spent 18months talking crap, playing up to the camera and has kept the attention on his antics and not the play-by-paly of that fight.
People who think he is delusional are fools. This facade, this character he created, is the work of genius, on a number of levels.

bret69 wrote: »

He fought BJJ specialists in Thales Leites, Travis Lutter and Demian Maia, strikers in Vitor Belfort, Patrick Cote and Chris Leben and wrestlers in Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt and Chael Sonnen.

Marquart isn't a top class wrestler like Chael or Dan.
And yes he beat both Chael and Dan. But the point is, the only times he has lost a round to anyone was the 1st to Henderson, and all 5 to Chael. Both his only true wrestlers he fought.
(I'm counting the 5th for chael in terms of scoring. There was no way he could get it back, he needed to win)

Logical Fallacy

Silva wins this via brutality if he goes in to the fight looking for the KO.

Chael's best option to talk more **** about BJJ in general and Nog bros BJJ in particular and make Silva obsess about tapping him again.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Dean09 wrote: »

Chael didn't look extraordinarily impressive against Bisping and he'd need to put in a better performance than that against Silva.

I agree and disagree with this, I think in some ways Bisping was a very tough matchup for Sonnen and he did well to keep up the pace for the entire fight, I know there was a lot of hugging and pressing against the cage but Sonnen would have been KO'd if he left any space for Bisping.

I actually think Bisping is a real contender for Silva and he was matched up with Sonnen to KO sonnen and put all the smack to bed.

Professey Chin

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

I agree and disagree with this, I think in some ways Bisping was a very tough matchup for Sonnen and he did well to keep up the pace for the entire fight, I know there was a lot of hugging and pressing against the cage but Sonnen would have been KO'd if he left any space for Bisping.

I actually think Bisping is a real contender for Silva and he was matched up with Sonnen to KO sonnen and put all the smack to bed.

You really think Bisping(who hasnt actually Ko'd anyone since TUF) would have KO'd Sonnen who's never been knocked out in his entire career? Really?

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Except for Miller and Rivera in his last 2 fights...

Professey Chin

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

Except for Miller and Rivera in his last 2 fights...

They were TKO stoppages, not KOs and against a Miller who could barely stand by Rd 3 and Rivera after an illegal knee to the head and a completely different class of fighter to Chael.
A corner stoppage and a cut are the only TKOs on Sonnens record. I dont see how you could come to any kind of conclusion that Bisping could stop Sonnen. Submit maybe but KO/TKO, not a hope

Logical Fallacy

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

You really think Bisping(who hasnt actually Ko'd anyone since TUF) would have KO'd Sonnen who's never been knocked out in his entire career? Really?

Hell, i saw Nick Diaz KO Robbie Lawlor with a freaking jab, and that dude had never been knocked out before and hasn't been knocked out since.

It's fighting, and when a guy is throwing punches at you he could knock you out. Chael has a fantastic chin, but part of the reason he has never been KO'd is because he doesn't sit there with his chin stuck out letting people take shots at it. It's foolish to think the guy cannot be knocked out, everyone can, he is great at reducing the chances people have of doing so...such as in the Bisping fight by putting Bisping on the cage and breaking him down.

Professey Chin

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Hell, i saw Nick Diaz KO Robbie Lawlor with a freaking jab, and that dude had never been knocked out before and hasn't been knocked out since.

It's fighting, and when a guy is throwing punches at you he could knock you out. Chael has a fantastic chin, but part of the reason he has never been KO'd is because he doesn't sit there with his chin stuck out letting people take shots at it. It's foolish to think the guy cannot be knocked out, everyone can, he is great at reducing the chances people have of doing so...such as in the Bisping fight by putting Bisping on the cage and breaking him down.

Big difference between saying "a chance of being KO'd" and "would have been KO'd". Every fighter has a chance but saying that he was put in there to knock him out or would have KOd him is a whole different story

Mellor

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

I dont see how you could come to any kind of conclusion that Bisping could stop Sonnen.

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Big difference between saying "a chance of being KO'd" and "would have been KO'd". Every fighter has a chance..

One minute you say you don't see how he could, and then the next you said he has a chance. That makes no sense.

If he has a chacne, then he could get a KO/TKO. Simple as that.
Could and would do it are very different.


I'm not even sure what the bisping fight has to do with sonnen silva II. Bisping did very well in that fight, if anything he moved up the ranks. But its not the fight we should be looking at. This is a rematch, the first shows us what could happen. That's the plan Chael will bring, Silva will prob come out very pumped, remember the Belfort weigh-in, remember what happened next.

cowzerp

Mellor wrote: »

Silva will prob come out very pumped, remember the Belfort weigh-in, remeber what happened next.

Yeah, silva was getting out struck and looked worried and got a lucky kick in!

The Bored One

cowzerp wrote: »

Yeah, silva was getting out struck and looked worried and got a lucky kick in!

I'm not sure that I'd say he was worried, I've seen a few of his fights where he spends the first round or two on the backfoot letting the opponent do all the work. Then when he thinks he has the measure he either drops them or starts playing with them.
The Sonnen fight was interesting because he never let Silva get off the backfoot, it was pretty much constant assault, mixed between striking and wrestling without a feeling out process.

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

Yeah, silva was getting out struck and looked worried and got a lucky kick in!

cowzerp

Very serious, Silva was worried about the speed of Belfort and looked a bit lost, the kick was a fluke and a freak thing that happens now and again in sport. Not saying it was not good but i am saying that it was lucky and i don't even think Silva was expecting that result from that kick.

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

Very serious, Silva was worried about the speed of Belfort and looked a bit lost, the kick was a fluke and a freak thing that happens now and again in sport. Not saying it was not good but i am saying that it was lucky and i don't even think Silva was expecting that result from that kick.

I doubt he thought he was gonna KO Belfort with that kick, but to call it "lucky", I have to disagree with. Freak, absolutely, but not lucky! He threw the kick to hit Belfort in the face, he hit Belfort exactly where he intended to and it effected him in a way which was unusual.

I reckon if we start calling that lucky, perhaps 1/2 of KOs would have to be considered "Lucky".

cowzerp

MrStuffins wrote: »

I reckon if we start calling that lucky, perhaps 1/2 of KOs would have to be considered "Lucky".

If i throw a jab to find range or to put you off balance, maybe to set up a takedown and it knocks you out then thats lucky, If i throw the jab to try KO you then it's not lucky/freak its planned.

I maintain that i feel it was a lucky shot and not an intentional ko

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

If i throw a jab to find range or to put you off balance, maybe to set up a takedown and it knocks you out then thats lucky, If i throw the jab to try KO you then it's not lucky/freak its planned.

I maintain that i feel it was a lucky shot and not an intentional ko

While I understand what you're saying, I think throwing a kick like he did with his back-leg is miles different from a jab. He was definitely looking to do damage, even if he wasn't sure what exactly that damage would be!

cowzerp

MrStuffins wrote: »

While I understand what you're saying, I think throwing a kick like he did with his back-leg is miles different from a jab. He was definitely looking to do damage, even if he wasn't sure what exactly that damage would be!

I think we just look at it different, A front kick to me is usually to push someone back, or to find range-similar to a jab actually-the actual move is not that important to my debate anyway

its the intention and i think it was not his intention to KO Belfort with that kick, hence why i believe it was lucky

Anyway, he won and thats what counts just like against Chael, the W is the important stat.

Jimmy Bottlehead

They see me trollin', they hatin'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDIb_BxYCI8

Roar

Seems Chael is a Young Guns fan!

themacman

Whats the story with Sonnen waving around a belt that he 'took from Anderson Silva'?

Mellor

themacman wrote: »

Whats the story with Sonnen waving around a belt that he 'took from Anderson Silva'?

Because he is

"the true champion, linear champion, people’s champion, and the best damn middleweight there’s ever been"

Logical Fallacy

I reckon Chael is gonna have a fantastic run of talking **** in the lead up to this fight. Should be hilarious.

Ian Whelan

I just want Silva v Bisping. How does this fight happen?

MrStuffins

Ian Whelan wrote: »

I just want Silva v Bisping. How does this fight happen?

I'd say it starts with Silva having one hand tied behind his back!

Mellor

Bisping is 1 win away from a title shot. Even thoguh he lost we was impressive verses Sonnen, more impressive that Stann.

Bisping Munoz for the no.1 spot imo

Be like Nutella

Major major props to Bisping for his effort against Sonnen.. Mucho respect for him now... and Bisping Munoz would be ****ing brilliant ! Before Bisping Sonnen I would never have even wanted to see him fight Munoz but now I reckon there's a chance he could pull off the upset... a chance. As for IF he did... then I suppose we'd just have to sit back and watch him get genuinely slaughtered by Silva in the title fight... but he'd deserve the shot.. as pointless as it would be.

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

but he'd deserve the shot.. as pointless as it would be.

Agree completely.
THe the UFC media enginee over hypes him in the UK. And the UK fanboys might have over rated him at the start.

But the people who give him no credit ever are far far worse.
"He's a terrible fighter. Dan Henderson proved that"

Apparently getting Knocked out by Hendo means you suck. :rolleyes:
i don't want to be the one to tell Fedor

CageWager

This documentary gives an interesting insight into Anderson's mindset coming into the Sonnen fight. Looks like he was having a pretty tough time mentally as well as physically in the weeks leading up to the fight.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/tv/Like_Water_Anderson_Silva_Part_1/10027060

MrStuffins

Mellor wrote: »

Apparently getting Knocked out by Hendo means you suck. :rolleyes:
i don't want to be the one to tell Fedor

Must......... resist........... ignorant sh*te about Fedor always sucking............


:pac:

SeanieMurphy

ye I think chael bates silva this time round wha I dont see him getting caught a second time wha