Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

europa11

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is very good to hear and indeed encouraging news, but when I fly to Germany next week, it will still be from Dublin.
There are still hundreds of millions of people living in Europe that would love to visit the West of Ireland but there are still zero flights going there.
Hopefully this will change soon, the Frankfurt flight from Shannon was always full.

Same to be said of the Dusseldorf-Weeze flight.

As you say, hopefully some service to Germany will be resumed soon.

dr.fuzzenstein

europa11 wrote: »

Same to be said of the Dusseldorf-Weeze flight.

As you say, hopefully some service to Germany will be resumed soon.

Just goes to show how power play, thick-headedness and gombeenism (from all parties involved, including Ryanair) can be to the detriment of a region.
It seems that the people involved where more interested in flexing their muscles and scoring points of each other than doing what's best for the region or even themselves.
Reminds of the old fable of two cockerels fighting over a grain, both ended up with black eyes, the grain got trod into the ground and the joke is that there's plenty of grain on the ground in the first place.
When we judge the people in power by their actions, it sometimes seems that none of them have an IQ of over 50.

lotusm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is very good to hear and indeed encouraging news, but when I fly to Germany next week, it will still be from Dublin.
There are still hundreds of millions of people living in Europe that would love to visit the West of Ireland but there are still zero flights going there.
Hopefully this will change soon, the Frankfurt flight from Shannon was always full.

Lufthansa have a weekly flight to Dusseldorf from Knock, not alot but still better than "zero" :rolleyes:

Claregirl

lotusm wrote: »

Lufthansa have a weekly flight to Dusseldorf from Knock, not alot but still better than "zero" :rolleyes:

2 hours 20 mins to Dublin Airport all motorway miles from Ennis as against 1 hour 52 mins to Knock for a weekly flight would not be better than zero in my opinion. I know personally if a flight is not available from Shannon I'll fly from Dublin or maybe Cork depending on flight time I wouldn't dream of flying from Knock.

The question is though if the same range of flights were available in Shannon as is available currently in Knock what difference would that make to passenger numbers in Shannon to the detriment of Knock? People who's preference would be to fly from Shannon are prevented from doing so by lack of availability it just doesn't make sense to me when you consider the population catchment for Shannon Airport i.e. Clare, Limerick, Tipperary and most likely Galway city. In the last year I've flown from both Cork and Dublin Airport and it's amazing the number of CE & LK registered cars parked in both airports considering the proximity of Shannon Airport.

washman3

Ryanair still fly Farranfore to Frankfurt Hahn.
But I just cant understand why there is no route from Shannon to anywhere in Germany.

dr.fuzzenstein

lotusm wrote: »

Lufthansa have a weekly flight to Dusseldorf from Knock, not alot but still better than "zero" :rolleyes:

Why the rolleyes? Are there any flights from Shannon to Germany that I am overlooking? If I am, please post me details, because I am genuinely interested.
And, as previous poster pointed out, if I have to fly from another airport, it might as well be Dublin, because if I have to drive somewhere, I might as well drive somewhere where there is flights going to where I want to go (Memmingen) rather than having a long drive on either side and departing from a cowshed in a muddy field.
And (as I keep pointing out till I'm blue in the face and people keep jamming their fingers in their ears going lalalala because they are Irish and can't be proved wrong) there are 70 million potential tourists to Ireland over there. Germans love Ireland, if we advertised properly over there on the strength of scenery, walking tours, cycling, pubs ,restaurants, golf, beaches and all these other things we have here, we couldn't move for tourists.
I have high hopes for the new management and if they decide to put on the odd flight to mainland Europe destinations, I'd be glad. But this is not about me (they'd hardly put on a flight just because I want it), but about the region. it's time to throw off the B&B mentality and truly start thinking big, make bold moves and be willing to take a few (well calculated) risks and the results could be amazing.

Henry Ford III

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Why the rolleyes? Are there any flights from Shannon to Germany that I am overlooking? If I am, please post me details, because I am genuinely interested.
And, as previous poster pointed out, if I have to fly from another airport, it might as well be Dublin, because if I have to drive somewhere, I might as well drive somewhere where there is flights going to where I want to go (Memmingen) rather than having a long drive on either side and departing from a cowshed in a muddy field.
And (as I keep pointing out till I'm blue in the face and people keep jamming their fingers in their ears going lalalala because they are Irish and can't be proved wrong) there are 70 million potential tourists to Ireland over there. Germans love Ireland, if we advertised properly over there on the strength of scenery, walking tours, cycling, pubs ,restaurants, golf, beaches and all these other things we have here, we couldn't move for tourists.
I have high hopes for the new management and if they decide to put on the odd flight to mainland Europe destinations, I'd be glad. But this is not about me (they'd hardly put on a flight just because I want it), but about the region. it's time to throw off the B&B mentality and truly start thinking big, make bold moves and be willing to take a few (well calculated) risks and the results could be amazing.

The very thought of 70 million German tourists!!!

irishbloke77

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Why the rolleyes? Are there any flights from Shannon to Germany that I am overlooking? If I am, please post me details, because I am genuinely interested.
And, as previous poster pointed out, if I have to fly from another airport, it might as well be Dublin, because if I have to drive somewhere, I might as well drive somewhere where there is flights going to where I want to go (Memmingen) rather than having a long drive on either side and departing from a cowshed in a muddy field.
And (as I keep pointing out till I'm blue in the face and people keep jamming their fingers in their ears going lalalala because they are Irish and can't be proved wrong) there are 70 million potential tourists to Ireland over there. Germans love Ireland, if we advertised properly over there on the strength of scenery, walking tours, cycling, pubs ,restaurants, golf, beaches and all these other things we have here, we couldn't move for tourists.
I have high hopes for the new management and if they decide to put on the odd flight to mainland Europe destinations, I'd be glad. But this is not about me (they'd hardly put on a flight just because I want it), but about the region. it's time to throw off the B&B mentality and truly start thinking big, make bold moves and be willing to take a few (well calculated) risks and the results could be amazing.

70 million Germans do not "love" Ireland. We haven't exactly endeared ourselves to the Germans by our banks trying to never pay back the bank debt and then releasing tapes showing our dopey bankers openly discussing how to swindle off more money from ourselves and the Germans, hence them attempting the German national anthem sarcastically.

I do admit though, with 70 million of them, it's a big market to aim at, even if only 1% came here this year, that's a lot of euros.

Cork has a route to Munich 3 times a week with Aer Lingus, no ryanair flights to Germany. Kerry has their 4 times a week route to Hahn and knock has the weekly to Germany also. That's a total of 8 flights a week to Germany from Ireland (outside Dublin). Maybe they don't want to come here as much as you make out, maybe we don't have the money anymore to fly off to Germany frequently enough to justify a route. We have had extra announcements in schedule services from Shannon to routes in Spain, Portugal, UK amongst others. However, it's not just German airports missing from that list. No Italian routes, no year scheduled year round French routes (not even Paris).

My point being, give the new airport management a chance, they do seem to have turned the corner with extra route announcements and extra passengers for the first time in ages. In my book, that deserves them extra time. I'm sure they know that Germany exists.

Jamie2k9

Don't post in Clare section but just came across this threat. I have a few points to make that are sensible unlike some of the posters on here.

The only realistic increase of routes from SNN will be if a deal is done with Ryanair. Even at that Ryanair said their operation there in the good times struggled to make profit.

Very few European airlines will look at Shannon. We see Cork has none and Dublin only has a few. The demand and yield is not their and airlines can't make a profit. There is no point in saying oh all these flights form Shannon were full. The simple fact is they were loss making. Staff, fuel, airport charges, ATC, handlers and aircraft servicing to name a few are just some of the costs involved. Unless these are covered the route is doomed. Airlines are business than need to make profit and not losses. Over 1/3 of the population live in the Dublin area and a very large % of the population are in Dublin Airport within 60 minutes. Ireland is a very small island and full service carriers serving outside Dublin won't work.

Airports outside of Dublin are much more dependent on Irish passengers getting off to the sun which in return was big money for airlines and a few years ago the profits from these services to Cork and Shannon could absorb the losses of other services. Now demand for holidays is decreasing and services become deeply loss making which results in carriers cutting and as seen in Europe many going bust.

Shannon's current traffic increase is driven by US carriers, the Ireland-US bubble is fast reaching its limit before it bursts and it either keep the market flat or put it into decline.

Flybe recent entrance to SNN, will be very short lived unless GLA service picks up a lot. Flybe have just confirmed the closure of EDI-NOC which had better numbers from October. This carrier is deep in the red and will have make changes to the business over the coming months.

My main point is if SNN want growth in winter and into 2014, Ryanair is the only option even though it may not end well. There is nobody else.

irishbloke77

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Don't post in Clare section but just came across this threat. I have a few points to make that are sensible unlike some of the posters on here.

The only realistic increase of routes from SNN will be if a deal is done with Ryanair. Even at that Ryanair said their operation there in the good times struggled to make profit.

Very few European airlines will look at Shannon. We see Cork has none and Dublin only has a few. The demand and yield is not their and airlines can't make a profit. There is no point in saying oh all these flights form Shannon were full. The simple fact is they were loss making. Staff, fuel, airport charges, ATC, handlers and aircraft servicing to name a few are just some of the costs involved. Unless these are covered the route is doomed. Airlines are business than need to make profit and not losses. Over 1/3 of the population live in the Dublin area and a very large % of the population are in Dublin Airport within 60 minutes. Ireland is a very small island and full service carriers serving outside Dublin won't work.

Airports outside of Dublin are much more dependent on Irish passengers getting off to the sun which in return was big money for airlines and a few years ago the profits from these services to Cork and Shannon could absorb the losses of other services. Now demand for holidays is decreasing and services become deeply loss making which results in carriers cutting and as seen in Europe many going bust.

Shannon's current traffic increase is driven by US carriers, the Ireland-US bubble is fast reaching its limit before it bursts and it either keep the market flat or put it into decline.

Flybe recent entrance to SNN, will be very short lived unless GLA service picks up a lot. Flybe have just confirmed the closure of EDI-NOC which had better numbers from October. This carrier is deep in the red and will have make changes to the business over the coming months.

My main point is if SNN want growth in winter and into 2014, Ryanair is the only option even though it may not end well. There is nobody else.

If Ryanair "struggled to make a profit during the good times", how could they make it now. Operating costs are all up and less people are flying. Ryanair have 25 routes out of Cork, which is only 90 minutes away. Thats closer than beauvais is to paris or hahn is to frankfurt. In Ryanairs eyes, Cork covers the shannon aiport region.

You are correct though, giving ryanair a monopoly at shannon, wont end well. Remember the airlines that left the last time ryanair came to town. Dont see ryanair doing those routes anymore either.

I would prefer to see an airport slowly expanding as it is now, than have 1/2 good years with ryanair then go bust when they leave.

As for the US market, shannon was starting from a low base of flights this year and has managed to add a few, but more are open for fighting for. Delta to Atlanta, American airlines to anywhere.

Clareman

Welcome to the Clare forum. I would recommend that when you introduce yourself to a new place that you don't try to belittle other posters first, doing stuff like that can be ok but not if you decide to have an error strewn post.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Don't post in Clare section but just came across this threat.

If you think you are being threatened please use the report post function.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I have a few points to make that are sensible unlike some of the posters on here.

So your points are more sensible that the people posting, not really comparing like for like there.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The only realistic increase of routes from SNN will be if a deal is done with Ryanair.

The only realistic increase in routes would be an increase in routes, doesn't depend on the carrier.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Even at that Ryanair said their operation there in the good times struggled to make profit.

This was during the time of the levies and lack of discount, Ryanair just worry about Ryanair, not the airports they use.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Very few European airlines will look at Shannon.

1 of the longest runways in Europe, pre-clearence to the US, potential good deals on fees, I would say that very few airlines would not look at Shannon, they might decide that it's not in line with their business requirements or strategy, but they would be extremely foolish not to look at it at least.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

We see Cork has none and Dublin only has a few. The demand and yield is not their and airlines can't make a profit. There is no point in saying oh all these flights form Shannon were full. The simple fact is they were loss making.

Some facts to back this up would be nice.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Staff, fuel, airport charges, ATC, handlers and aircraft servicing to name a few are just some of the costs involved. Unless these are covered the route is doomed. Airlines are business than need to make profit and not losses.

Thank you for the Economics lesson, besides some grammatical errors I can't see much wrong with this.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Over 1/3 of the population live in the Dublin area and a very large % of the population are in Dublin Airport within 60 minutes. Ireland is a very small island and full service carriers serving outside Dublin won't work.

By this logic everything outside of Dublin should be closed.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Airports outside of Dublin are much more dependent on Irish passengers getting off to the sun which in return was big money for airlines and a few years ago the profits from these services to Cork and Shannon could absorb the losses of other services. Now demand for holidays is decreasing and services become deeply loss making which results in carriers cutting and as seen in Europe many going bust.

This is such an idiotic and inaccurate statement that it made me start this reply in the first place. To say that only sun holidays are the business models for an airport is an extremely narrow minded. Businesses such as Business Travel, Freight Handling and air craft maintenance would be much larger revenue streams than holiday makers. The 1 thing that holiday makers might increase is passenger numbers.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Shannon's current traffic increase is driven by US carriers, the Ireland-US bubble is fast reaching its limit before it bursts and it either keep the market flat or put it into decline.

When was this decided? If anything traffic to the US is dropping cause of the declining number of military personnel. This statement is just plain wrong in my opinion, but if you can get some facts to back it up I would gladly be educated.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Flybe recent entrance to SNN, will be very short lived unless GLA service picks up a lot. Flybe have just confirmed the closure of EDI-NOC which had better numbers from October. This carrier is deep in the red and will have make changes to the business over the coming months.

So a recent new carrier and route will need to have an increase in business to survive, fair enough.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

My main point is if SNN want growth in winter and into 2014, Ryanair is the only option even though it may not end well. There is nobody else.

That's just wrong

angelfire9

I have been flicking in and out of this thread for the last 24 hours and am not going to go through all the comments I disagree with there are just too many!!
Just a few points to make:

Shannon airport was run into the ground by the DAA anyone who disputes that is dillusional

The moving of Aer Rianta and all associated profits to Dublin when Shannon was given autonomy was very unfair

The airport in Shannon has 100% support from local businesses and local people, that, together with its new manager, and freedom from Dublin's decision making will give the airport the best chance of future success

Shannon has several factors going for it that the naysayers seem to forget
The longest runway in Ireland giving it the ability to cater for all flights is one
US pre clearance (only available in SNN and DUB)
Excellent parking facilities
Bigger terminals than the other regional airports

I for one, would love to see Shannon take off as an airport again

The independence is in its youth, give it a chance before condemning it to failure please

dr.fuzzenstein

Jamie29k made the point that there is not enough population living in the region to sustain more European routes and that is half right.
Of course if only people living in the area used those flights to fly to European non-holiday destinations, there would be 5 people on the flight.
BUT:
The point (as I made earlier and sorry about the 70 million Germans mental image) is that we are trying to target the people living over there to come here.
And Irishbloke77, yes, Germans love Ireland. 99% of people living over there are fascinated by the countryside, the green image, the music, pubs, etc...
If you lived in the industrial heartland of Germany you could also see the attraction. Most of them are intelligent enough to differentiate between the Irish people and the sh*tcnut, lying, cheating, pea-brained, inbred, deluded, criminal scum bastards who ran banks like Anglo, who I still think should be publicly strung from lamposts for treason and set on fire. I volunteer. How do I know that? Being German helps.

lotusm

Claregirl wrote: »

2 hours 20 mins to Dublin Airport all motorway miles from Ennis as against 1 hour 52 mins to Knock for a weekly flight would not be better than zero in my opinion. I know personally if a flight is not available from Shannon I'll fly from Dublin or maybe Cork depending on flight time I wouldn't dream of flying from Knock.

The question is though if the same range of flights were available in Shannon as is available currently in Knock what difference would that make to passenger numbers in Shannon to the detriment of Knock? People who's preference would be to fly from Shannon are prevented from doing so by lack of availability it just doesn't make sense to me when you consider the population catchment for Shannon Airport i.e. Clare, Limerick, Tipperary and most likely Galway city. In the last year I've flown from both Cork and Dublin Airport and it's amazing the number of CE & LK registered cars parked in both airports considering the proximity of Shannon Airport.

I was only stating the fact there is a weekly flight from Germany to the west of Ireland . Last time I checked Knock was in the West of Ireland. Hence your comment "Zero flights" to the West of Ireland was incorrect.

dr.fuzzenstein

lotusm wrote: »

I was only stating the fact there is a weekly flight from Germany to the west of Ireland . Last time I checked Knock was in the West of Ireland. Hence your comment "Zero flights" to the West of Ireland was incorrect.

OK then, Shannon.:o

Jamie2k9

The only realistic increase in routes would be an increase in routes, doesn't depend on the carrier.

Who will bring these routes, many national carriers in Europe are going to the wall or doing major cuts. Aer Lingus and Ryanair are part of the small list profitable carriers in Europe.

Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, Iberia, LOT, SAS all going reducing capacity and cutting jobs. Easyjet won't look at Ireland again after Ryanair and not many carriers that can bring new routes. Aer Lingus will not expand as the Irish market is very tough for them. Ryanair is the only operator.

Air France have being and gone from SNN, so they won't come back and try CDG again.

This was during the time of the levies and lack of discount, Ryanair just worry about Ryanair, not the airports they use.

They had discounts and now that SNN is on its won it won't have the DAA to bail them out if it was to happen again.

1 of the longest runways in Europe, pre-clearence to the US, potential good deals on fees, I would say that very few airlines would not look at Shannon, they might decide that it's not in line with their business requirements or strategy, but they would be extremely foolish not to look at it at least.

Its got all this but for European routes the runway won't even come into it as once you have a 2000m one you can get anywhere in Europe.

By this logic everything outside of Dublin should be closed.

Not at all but people are not prepared to pay high fares to keep the routes going and Dublin has a better mix or travellers to keep them.

Some facts to back this up would be nice.

Remind me what carriers had routes from Shannon and Cork other than Ryanair and Aer Lingus and have close them over the last few years.

This is such an idiotic and inaccurate statement that it made me start this reply in the first place. To say that only sun holidays are the business models for an airport is an extremely narrow minded. Businesses such as Business Travel, Freight Handling and air craft maintenance would be much larger revenue streams than holiday makers. The 1 thing that holiday makers might increase is passenger numbers.

I was speaking form passenger point of view, these airports are more dependent on Irish passengers, Ryanair and Aer Lingus have way more sun flights and a few years ago charters to the sun make up the bulk of the schedules.

When was this decided? If anything traffic to the US is dropping cause of the declining number of military personnel. This statement is just plain wrong in my opinion, but if you can get some facts to back it up I would gladly be educated.

External factors mainly fuel costs are driving costs up for carriers. It's starting to slow and you may not believe it now but you will see.

That's just wrong

What growth will be seen past October, Aer Lingus Regional reducing capacity, could be wrong but a few weeks ago when I checked Ryanair's London service reduced but you do gain Liverpool. Aer Lingus to Boston from mid Jan but United cut slightly to EWR in the new year. Growth will be flat if not negative.

Shannon airport was run into the ground by the DAA anyone who disputes that is dillusional

The moving of Aer Rianta and all associated profits to Dublin when Shannon was given autonomy was very unfair

The airport in Shannon has 100% support from local businesses and local people, that, together with its new manager, and freedom from Dublin's decision making will give the airport the best chance of future success

Shannon has several factors going for it that the naysayers seem to forget
The longest runway in Ireland giving it the ability to cater for all flights is one
US pre clearance (only available in SNN and DUB)
Excellent parking facilities
Bigger terminals than the other regional airports

I for one, would love to see Shannon take off as an airport again

The independence is in its youth, give it a chance before condemning it to failure please

Agree with most of this but are the high yielding passenger their to make routes work. People want routes but cheap fares and it's very hard for any airport to achieve this.

Jamie29k made the point that there is not enough population living in the region to sustain more European routes and that is half right.
Of course if only people living in the area used those flights to fly to European non-holiday destinations, there would be 5 people on the flight.
BUT:
The point (as I made earlier and sorry about the 70 million Germans mental image) is that we are trying to target the people living over there to come here.
And Irishbloke77, yes, Germans love Ireland. 99% of people living over there are fascinated by the countryside, the green image, the music, pubs, etc...
If you lived in the industrial heartland of Germany you could also see the attraction. Most of them are intelligent enough to differentiate between the Irish people and the sh*tcnut, lying, cheating, pea-brained, inbred, deluded, criminal scum bastards who ran banks like Anglo, who I still think should be publicly strung from lamposts for treason and set on fire. I volunteer. How do I know that? Being German helps.

There needs to be a good balance in passengers from either side for flights to places otr than Spain.

As for the US market, shannon was starting from a low base of flights this year and has managed to add a few, but more are open for fighting for. Delta to Atlanta, American airlines to anywhere.

US Airways and American are about to merge and this is going to result in cuts to Europe routes and the carriers will have 2 main hubs.

Delta to ATL won't happen at all, it will damage their JFK service and take from their own DUB service which BTW is being suspended for part of the winter season.

Clareman

I must say I find your posting style very difficult to read, but to attempt to reply to your questions directed at my comments.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Who will bring these routes, many national carriers in Europe are going to the wall or doing major cuts. Aer Lingus and Ryanair are part of the small list profitable carriers in Europe.

Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, Iberia, LOT, SAS all going reducing capacity and cutting jobs. Easyjet won't look at Ireland again after Ryanair and not many carriers that can bring new routes. Aer Lingus will not expand as the Irish market is very tough for them. Ryanair is the only operator.

So Ryanair is the only airline that'll operate out of Ireland? I see this comment more about the Airline Industry as a whole rather than just Shannon.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Air France have being and gone from SNN, so they won't come back and try CDG again.

I don't think any business will ever say never as a whole, Air France, like other airlines, worked out of Shannon when there was collective pricing through the DAA.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They had discounts and now that SNN is on its won it won't have the DAA to bail them out if it was to happen again.

This piece confuses me, Shannon didn't win the Air France business cause of offering discounts, the DAA did not bail out Shannon, in fact if anything it hampered Shannon with the collective pricing, it wouldn't be unusual for an airline to be given the same price for going to Dublin as it would to the other airports.
If you want to look at "bailing out" by the DAA, check to see how much Aer Rianta accounts for the DAA's profits.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its got all this but for European routes the runway won't even come into it as once you have a 2000m one you can get anywhere in Europe.

The longer runway will mean that it can be used as a training base as well, BA has used Shannon as a training base for many years.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not at all but people are not prepared to pay high fares to keep the routes going and Dublin has a better mix or travellers to keep them.

There is quite a levy in place for flying out of Dublin for people in the west, personally it would mean over 5 hours travelling time (~€75 in petrol) and higher parking costs, a lot of people are willing to pay extra to fly out of Shannon rather than trek to Dublin.
What does the mix of (sp.) travellers have to do with anything?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Remind me what carriers had routes from Shannon and Cork other than Ryanair and Aer Lingus and have close them over the last few years.

Do you want to know other airlines that came out of Shannon or Cork besides the 2 largest Irish carriers? I don't know about Cork, but Delta and United have been going out of Shannon for years, Aer Arann used to also before Aer Lingus took them over.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I was speaking form passenger point of view, these airports are more dependent on Irish passengers, Ryanair and Aer Lingus have way more sun flights and a few years ago charters to the sun make up the bulk of the schedules.

As someone who used to use Shannon airport twice a week every week I can tell you that this is wrong, the daily Heathrow flight used to be full every morning and evening. Of course an Irish airport is going to be more dependent on Irish passengers, but it's not just holiday makers that use the airport, definitely not just charter flights.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

External factors mainly fuel costs are driving costs up for carriers. It's starting to slow and you may not believe it now but you will see.

Again, affect the airline industry as a whole rather than just Shannon.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What growth will be seen past October, Aer Lingus Regional reducing capacity, could be wrong but a few weeks ago when I checked Ryanair's London service reduced but you do gain Liverpool. Aer Lingus to Boston from mid Jan but United cut slightly to EWR in the new year. Growth will be flat if not negative.

Aer Lingus has consistently shown their distain for Shannon, I wouldn't be counting on them for the airport, also, Ryanair I don't believe have finalised their winter schedules as of yet. For growth opportunities, we'll have to see how Flybe get on as well as the other airlines that are bringing other scheduled flights.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Agree with most of this but are the high yielding passenger their to make routes work. People want routes but cheap fares and it's very hard for any airport to achieve this.

Mixing up airlines and airports here, the airport will set their prices and facilities, the airlines will sell the flights.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

the Ireland-US bubble is fast reaching its limit before it bursts and it either keep the market flat or put it into decline.

Why would you see the Ireland-US market as a bubble? I'm not especially disagreeing, or agreeing. And, to be clear, I don't think there's an endless supply of Americans with a deep need to be spend two weeks in Ireland visiting everywhere that Bord Failte tells them to. I'd just see no particular reason to see a given level of traffic as unsustainable, once achieved. I'd also be mindful that Dublin seems to be attracting some hub business, which presumably offers potential for growth.

Clareman wrote: »

1 of the longest runways in Europe

Is there any actual basis for this frequent statement? Yes, its the longest in the State, because no-one else was allowed to build a 3,000m+ runway. Yes, the runway length is long enough to support pretty much any kind of service that might be contemplated. But surely there's plenty of 3,000m+ runways around Europe, at this stage? Judging from Wikipedia, you'd need a 4000m runway to be remarkable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

I'm only saying, as we come across as an awful bunch of hicks if we make claims that have no solid basis.

angelfire9 wrote: »

Shannon airport was run into the ground by the DAA anyone who disputes that is dillusional

The moving of Aer Rianta and all associated profits to Dublin when Shannon was given autonomy was very unfair

I just want to record my disagreement with both of those points, for reasons that I feel I've already covered earlier in the thread.

angelfire9 wrote: »

I for one, would love to see Shannon take off as an airport again

I think most would agree. However, what I'd like to see is Shannon taking off by attracting business that might otherwise not come to Ireland at all. An amount of the rhetoric of the moment still seems stuck in the rut of attracting sun holiday business from Dublin, Cork and Knock. Whether a holidaymaker takes his euros from Ireland to Faro, via whatever Irish airport, is a matter of complete indifference to me. However, if (as seems to be the case) US traffic to both Shannon and Dublin are up, that's a good thing.

For what its worth, the independent Shannon strategy, up to and including the recent appointment of new management, is the only approach worth taking. Its too early to tell what the results will be. I think all we can really say is people seem to be getting behind the strategy, and that's what matters for now.

Clareman

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Is there any actual basis for this frequent statement? Yes, its the longest in the State, because no-one else was allowed to build a 3,000m+ runway. Yes, the runway length is long enough to support pretty much any kind of service that might be contemplated. But surely there's plenty of 3,000m+ runways around Europe, at this stage? Judging from Wikipedia, you'd need a 4000m runway to be remarkable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

I'm only saying, as we come across as an awful bunch of hicks if we make claims that have no solid basis.

By having a long runway it means that you can take all the large aircraft, this means not only can you get regular business from them, but there's also the training benefits where airlines will use Shannon as a training base. Concorde training was a massive bonus to the airport in the 80s, ask people that went to school in Cahercohn how often they trained

dr.fuzzenstein

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I was speaking form passenger point of view, these airports are more dependent on Irish passengers, Ryanair and Aer Lingus have way more sun flights and a few years ago charters to the sun make up the bulk of the schedules.

OK, I'm getting pissed off now. Nobody seems to have read my point which I have made over and fcuking over again, so here it is with a little more emphasis.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are dependent on tourists coming in not the 5 Irish who fly out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad::mad::mad:


Igonre that!

Jhcx

When's the selling season coming up? Shannon management really need to drive head first into that and sell sell sell. Was it Gatwick only managed to pull one new airline in? So it's a very though market to try and sell the beauty of an airport. But if there are 70 million Germans out there queuing up to come here German wings might be their best bet.

I know I work in a rival airport but Shannon's just a way better airport.

Pumpkinseeds

It's such a disgrace the way that Shannon airport was run into the ground. Shannon had a great Duty Free, a great bar that was used by a lot of locals and was usually packed solid. The Carousel restaraunt and the Lindberg room restaraunt were also popular with locals. I remember when the airport was bustling with people but now it's dead and there aren't any facilities available in the evening.

I went to collect my Husband a few days after Christmas and I'd planned to have a cup of coffee while I waited. The cafe was closed, the bar was closed and the place felt like someone had died. It's hard to believe that it's an international airport anymore. Hopefully something can be done to reverse it's fortunes.

Clareman

Ahhh, the old Shannon Airport when check in was down the corridor, there was a brilliant proper restaurant there and a lovely bar. I also remember when there was a viewing platform upstairs for arrivals, there was an awful amount of wasted space there though.

stevielenihan

Shannon Airport is one of the best airports in Ireland and it should be very busy again. I have secured a job there in a few months.

stevielenihan

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

It's such a disgrace the way that Shannon airport was run into the ground. Shannon had a great Duty Free, a great bar that was used by a lot of locals and was usually packed solid. The Carousel restaraunt and the Lindberg room restaraunt were also popular with locals. I remember when the airport was bustling with people but now it's dead and there aren't any facilities available in the evening.

I went to collect my Husband a few days after Christmas and I'd planned to have a cup of coffee while I waited. The cafe was closed, the bar was closed and the place felt like someone had died. It's hard to believe that it's an international airport anymore. Hopefully something can be done to reverse it's fortunes.

The fact is Shannon futures are been turned around as we speak. Its a lot buiser this year than it has been in the last 5 years and it will be even more busier next year. Shannon will have 2.5 million passengers by 2015.

Jhcx

It's great to see the growth. I wish they would put up the Shannon letters in Irish again on the front top viewing area. Shows there's a pride of irishness. Also wish they could raise the back viewing area. What have they done with that area now? Is it just closed off? Could make a nice lounge out of it now ..

Brennans Row

Jhcx wrote: »

When's the selling season coming up? Shannon management really need to drive head first into that and sell sell sell. Was it Gatwick only managed to pull one new airline in? So it's a very though market to try and sell the beauty of an airport. But if there are 70 million Germans out there queuing up to come here German wings might be their best bet.

I know I work in a rival airport but Shannon's just a way better airport.

I agree, now is the time for Shannon to approach the quality-budget-airline “germanwings” as its mother Lufthansa is in the process of withdrawing from most of its European routes and replacing herself with her daughter “germanwings”.

I see the Eirtech paintshop in Shannon has already been busy repainting the old “germanwings” livery with the new one.

They will probably the job to repaint the Lufthansa planes too.

See image from Shanair.

Jamie2k9

So Ryanair is the only airline that'll operate out of Ireland? I see this comment more about the Airline Industry as a whole rather than just Shannon.

What affects the Industry affects the airport.

I don't think any business will ever say never as a whole, Air France, like other airlines, worked out of Shannon when there was collective pricing through the DAA.

Charges at airports don't make up a lot of operating costs so very cheap charges won't always be important.

This piece confuses me, Shannon didn't win the Air France business cause of offering discounts, the DAA did not bail out Shannon, in fact if anything it hampered Shannon with the collective pricing, it wouldn't be unusual for an airline to be given the same price for going to Dublin as it would to the other airports.
If you want to look at "bailing out" by the DAA, check to see how much Aer Rianta accounts for the DAA's profits.

The DAA took on the debit of the airport. The airport is still loss making and once the 100 million given at the start of the year goes what will they do. Cheap charges won't always be possible.

On a separate note does the airport still come under the regulator for setting airport charges?

There is quite a levy in place for flying out of Dublin for people in the west, personally it would mean over 5 hours traveling time (~€75 in petrol) and higher parking costs, a lot of people are willing to pay extra to fly out of Shannon rather than trek to Dublin.
What does the mix of (sp.) travelers have to do with anything?

There is the wide choice of night buses for around a €10 to the airport which do help with costs.

Mixing up airlines and airports here, the airport will set their prices and facilities, the airlines will sell the flights.

If you want success both must work together.

Why would you see the Ireland-US market as a bubble? I'm not especially disagreeing, or agreeing. And, to be clear, I don't think there's an endless supply of Americans with a deep need to be spend two weeks in Ireland visiting everywhere that Bord Failte tells them to. I'd just see no particular reason to see a given level of traffic as unsustainable, once achieved. I'd also be mindful that Dublin seems to be attracting some hub business, which presumably offers potential for growth.

Bubble may the wrong word but what I am saying is that the current level of supply and demand between Ireland and the US is very close to being equal. If carriers keep adding routes it will result in supply being higher than demand and this results in yield per passenger dropping and this makes routes loss making and external factors will result in route closures.

Airlines always want demand higher than supply and if that changes its not good.

Only for DUB's Hub Aer Lingus financial position would be a lot worse today.

The fact is Shannon futures are been turned around as we speak. Its a lot buiser this year than it has been in the last 5 years and it will be even more busier next year. Shannon will have 2.5 million passengers by 2015.

Steady on their, it has had 2 months of growth, the other 5 were in decline.

1.39 million passengers in 2012, I expect 1.45 or 1.5 in 2013.

There is no way they will add 1 million passengers in 2 years unless Ryanair base a few aircraft to do it.

stevielenihan

Jhcx wrote: »

It's great to see the growth. I wish they would put up the Shannon letters in Irish again on the front top viewing area. Shows there's a pride of irishness. Also wish they could raise the back viewing area. What have they done with that area now? Is it just closed off? Could make a nice lounge out of it now ..

I think its just closed off as they have the viewing area inside the terminal in in floor 3.

stevielenihan

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What affects the Industry affects the airport.



Charges at airports don't make up a lot of operating costs so very cheap charges won't always be important.



The DAA took on the debit of the airport. The airport is still loss making and once the 100 million given at the start of the year goes what will they do. Cheap charges won't always be possible.

On a separate note does the airport still come under the regulator for setting airport charges?



There is the wide choice of night buses for around a €10 to the airport which do help with costs.



If you want success both must work together.



Bubble may the wrong word but what I am saying is that the current level of supply and demand between Ireland and the US is very close to being equal. If carriers keep adding routes it will result in supply being higher than demand and this results in yield per passenger dropping and this makes routes loss making and external factors will result in route closures.

Airlines always want demand higher than supply and if that changes its not good.

Only for DUB's Hub Aer Lingus financial position would be a lot worse today.



Steady on their, it has had 2 months of growth, the other 5 were in decline.

1.39 million passengers in 2012, I expect 1.45 or 1.5 in 2013.

There is no way they will add 1 million passengers in 2 years unless Ryanair base a few aircraft to do it.

They have even said they hope to have 2.5 million by 2015. The cargo traffic will be the key to the growth. As for Ryanair it seems unlikely they base any aircraft there because they will probely pull out again which they should have done. other airlines now are what Shannon needs, Shannon lost passngers because of Ryanair and I dont think they reopen those routes again but I hope they do.