Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

Palmach

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Care to list any airports that have had the life sucked out of them by ryanair?

Balaton, Durham, Manchester got badly hit by them, Reus. Once you get them in they come back for more and more until like Shannon you almost let them land for free. Shannon said that the deal to keep Ryanair at Shannon fell through because Ryanair wanted a fare structure that would almost have mean t Shannon paying Ryanair to land. Shannon is well shot of O'Leary.

Cookiemunster

Kess73 wrote: »

I would be a bit concerned as to where the €100m+ debt that the airport has actually goes tbh, and I would also have concerns for the pensions of many of those who used to work in the airport. I know that many of the retired folk have seen their work pensions from the airport cut quite a bit each year for the last few years, and these were not big pensions to start with.

Varadker was on the Right Hook earlier and said that the DAA was taking on the €100m debt leaving Shannon debt free. No mention of pensions though.

Clareman

Shannon Airport is in Clare, and now this thread is as well

Clareman

Also merging the 2 threads into 1

source

Clareman wrote: »

Shannon Airport is in Clare, and now this thread is as well

Have to disagree with the decision to move this, as the airport while in Clare, has massive links to limerick and the decision made today has big economic ramifications for Limerick city.

As such I reckon the thread should have stayed in the limerick forum, so it may be discussed from the point of view of Limerick people.

Nevermind_

Palmach wrote: »

Balaton, Durham, Manchester got badly hit by them, Reus. Once you get them in they come back for more and more until like Shannon you almost let them land for free. Shannon said that the deal to keep Ryanair at Shannon fell through because Ryanair wanted a fare structure that would almost have mean t Shannon paying Ryanair to land. Shannon is well shot of O'Leary.

when you say got hit badly by them, you mean they eventually pulled out for various reasons, for example Durham introduced a £6 passenger tax, Ryanair left Balaton because the numbers were poor.
I dont think anyone expects them to operate routes at a loss, Shannon included.
They did leave Manchester for about 18 months but are back there now after they got a better deal from the airport and currently operate 26 routes.
Ryanair whether we like them or not are the only game in town who have a realistic shot at driving passenger numbers in Shannon, the spin off for the local economy also has to be taken into consideration.
Like i said any passenger increase is better than the status quo.
But I do take your point that if they do decide to leave it can be catastrophic for any small airport, however is that better than if they never came at all?

Clareman

source wrote: »

Have to disagree with the decision to move this, as the airport while in Clare, has massive links to limerick and the decision made today has big economic ramifications for Limerick city.

As such I reckon the thread should have stayed in the limerick forum, so it may be discussed from the point of view of Limerick people.

You are more than welcome to follow the relevant steps to bring this to the attention to the relevant parties. In my opinion this decision has a massive impact to the whole region but the airport is in Clare and as result the discussion can stay here.

dr.fuzzenstein

Palmach wrote: »

That is the last person they should phone. Ryanair are like a vampire that will suck the life out of an airport. Try quality instead of quantity.

Perhaps, but they tried neither.;)

ger664

Also need to consider O Leary has muted a low cost Trans Atlantic carrier. With Pre Clearance in Shannon this could now be very possible with DAA out of the loop.

christmas2012

Ya i head the DAA and SNN airport are now seperating which could be good for shannon.
Ive been to shannon airport recently and dont see much activity..Its not very busy at all..

jbkenn

Clareman wrote: »

You are more than welcome to follow the relevant steps to bring this to the attention to the relevant parties. In my opinion this decision has a massive impact to the whole region but the airport is in Clare and as result the discussion can stay here.

Idiot, I would suggest, when acting as a moderator, you leave your parochial gob****ery at home, this announcement has enormous implications for the entire region, not just Clare, perhaps, it was being discussed on the Limerick forum because some people recognise this fact.

zulutango

Clareman wrote: »

You are more than welcome to follow the relevant steps to bring this to the attention to the relevant parties. In my opinion this decision has a massive impact to the whole region but the airport is in Clare and as result the discussion can stay here.

The forum shouldn't really be subdivided on a county by county basis. Many important discussion topics are equally relevant to a number of counties.

Perhaps there should simply be a 'Midwest' forum. Given Limerick City's location on the Limerick - Clare border, a lot of 'Limerick' issues are important to Clare people, and many 'Clare' issues are important to Limerick people. Dividing the discussion along county lines significantly stifles it, and that's not a good thing, is it?

the drifter

jbkenn wrote: »

Idiot, I would suggest, when acting as a moderator, you leave your parochial gob****ery at home, this announcement has enormous implications for the entire region, not just Clare, perhaps, it was being discussed on the Limerick forum because some people recognise this fact.

jbkenn will not be joining us again for a week

golfball37

The pension issue is completely un-related and uneffected by yesterday. Aer Rianta employees pay into the Irish Aviation pot which includes Aer Lingus and IAA I believe. Its not a DAA pension so nothing has changed for retired Shannon staff. The airlines pension fund is in serious bother but thats unrelated to anything that has happned at Shannon in recent years.

Raiser

Akrasia wrote: »

This is very good news, and I think Shannon Development are probably the best organisation to take over the airport.

Congratulations to the cabinet, this looks like it has been a very good decision for balanced regional development.

Have you seen Shannon recently???

- I've two big dreams in life, one is to win the lottery and the other is to get a job with Shannon Development - Either way I'll be handed ridiculous amounts of money and never have to work again.......

Clareman

I think the way they are going about setting up the airport on it's own is a very intelligent way, they are forming 1 big company so there won't be hassle with land or space or remits and they are removing the debt so they can compete. Hopefully it won't be messed up

Born to Die

A Global logistics hub would be suited to Shannon. Add Ryanair to the scenario and the work would flow. Especially if the transatlantic routes can be put in place.

Clareman

The pre-clearance is such a massive thing to have they should use that to try to sell the airport to as many companies as possible. I also don't think they should just be concentrating on Ryanair, I'm sure companies like Ethiad could be convinced to fly some flights here as well as the whole corporate jet sector.

dr.fuzzenstein

I just don't understand this "We don't want Ryanair here" mentality.
You cannot view an airport in isolation, the airport and the region work together, they live and die with each other.
If thousands of people are brought to the region, they will spend money and be the life blood of the region.
Any person that says "Well, we're better off without O'Leary" is simply fiddling while Rome is burning.
It is ignorance of the highest order and shows a business understanding that does not stretch beyond a farm or a B&B.
Here's a simple test as to how your airport is doing:

Is your airport busy, the car parks full (that alone will pay for the running of it you silly goose), loads of flights going in and out?
Then you're doing well and if it's losing money, it is run by incompetent gobsh*tes.

Or is there tumbleweed blowing down the runway and the car parks can be used for football, rollerblading or company picknicks?
The you're not doing well and your airport is run by incompetent gobsh*tes.

Hiding behind excuses and explanations of "It's not that simple", another sign that it is run by incompetent gobsh*tes.
That is business, forget the waffle, forget the bullsh*t and the excuses.
If you're not succeeding, you're doing something wrong, if you're being supported by bailouts and state money, you're simply being kept on life support, but it's still not working.
An airport needs passengers, I don't see any arriving and personally I haven't used Shannon for the last 10-15 years, the airport is about as useful as the pope's balls.
It needs to change and this is the chance for it to shine.

MarkR

They were mentioning aircraft recycling on the radio. Also as a kind of hub for humanitarian aid at some stage? I also seem to recall something about a refrigerated cargo centre.

Michael O'Leary wasn't too impressed on the radio yesterday. Was very skeptical about what changes would actually happen. No harm to be out from under the thumb of the DAA, but hopefully we don't get more of the same lack of planning.

golfball37

I think nobody is objecting to getting Ryanair in but not at any price. Shannon has a runway and infrastructure that means it should be more than just a Ryanair airport.

Ryanair should be encuraged back into the fold of course but will they deal with new body having already dismissed them yesterday?

zulutango

This issue is far bigger than many, including the moderators here, seem to understand. I had originally wished to start a separate thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056635823) given the important regional context of yesterdays decision, but was shot down mercilessly by power-wielding zealots

It's not ideal to be posting here, but in the absence of a Midwest forum there appears to be nowhere else to put this that will facilitate the discussion that the topic deserves. I do think the 'county' forums should be got rid of altogether as these divisions don't have much relevance beyond GAA and existing local administrations.

Shannon Airport
Yesterdays news that Shannon airport, which is one of the key pieces of infrastructure in the region, will finally be separated from the Dublin Airport Authority may be great news for everybody. It's certainly good news for the Midwest, and it's more than likely good news for the rest of the country too.

This is about much more than having a commercially viable airport that offers employment to the region, and easy access to the rest of Europe and world. The decision has the potential to be far more significant than that. It gives the Midwest a good chance of positioning itself as the most viable location for the counter-balance to the Dublin metro region. Dublin, which is heaving under the strain of chronic bad planning (or lack of planning) over many decades needs this counter-balance as much as the rest of the country does. In thirty years we may well be looking back on this date as the turning point for Ireland and the Midwest.



County Amalgamation
There's other very big things happening too. The recent amalgamation of Limerick's and Tipperary's two local authorities is more than likely a forerunner to a switch to proper regional governance, and an abolition of the county structure of local government. Ideally, all the local authorities of Clare, Limerick and North Tipperary should have been brought into the one regional administration, but this was clearly a bridge too far for the government. The decision to join North and South Tipperary was a retrograde step and doesn't make much sense. North Tipp is, realistically, part of the Midwest and South Tipp is part of the Southeast.

These two developments offer the Midwest (and Ireland too) a great chance in the future. It's important that we understand the potential and now move to realise it.

dr.fuzzenstein

golfball37 wrote: »

I think nobody is objecting to getting Ryanair in but not at any price. Shannon has a runway and infrastructure that means it should be more than just a Ryanair airport.

Ryanair should be encuraged back into the fold of course but will they deal with new body having already dismissed them yesterday?

Agree, I'm not for a minute arguing Ryanair should be the only show in town, but there isn't much else as far as European flights is concerned and no one else has made it stick there, remember Virgin Express and a few others?
Shannon can't seem to hold on it's airlines.
Aer Lingus?
They fcuking hate Shannon and only have one wish: To be rid of it's base there.
Aircraft maintenance by Aer Lingus is coming to an end, January next year the Aer Lingus mechanics have two choices. Work in Dublin and be given graveyard shifts to "encourage" them to go (as done already with cabin crew a few years ago, push them out by rostering and telling them there is no future for them here), or just take the money and run.
Don't forget the infamous Shannon London flight.
Aer Lingus is not the future for Shannon, they only want to be gone out of there.
What other carriers to mainland Europe operate from there? None, bar the odd charter.
Without Ryanair Shannon is only good to go to London and New York and maybe Spain on one or two charter flights.

Ryanair in Shannon should be viewed quite separately from transatlantic traffic, cargo and whatever else goes on there.
There is everything else making money and Ryanair, bringing in the tourists and the odd business traveler.
I'd let them land for free, the bodies they bring in are worth far, far more.
Anyone who is able to look at the economics of the region as a whole, rather than just the bottom line of the airport and nothing else, should be able to see that.

maryb26

Would it be possible to come to an arrangement with Ryanair where a certain percentage of flights are free and the more routes the higher the percentage. Not so long ago we were able to take our children to Brussels, Stockhom, Paris, Rome from Shannon at very low cost. There were three car parks in use not so long ago now the long stay is nearly empty.

LadyTBolt

It's amazing how we all become experts in business enterprise while sitting at home sipping tea at our desktops. Are we so naive to think that every viable suggestion presented here hasn't already been explored by the airport, previously DAA. :rolleyes:

Shannon will return to success that is without a doubt. How remains to be seen but it will be operated by an enterprise which requires it to be successful as they cannot operate while losing money after separating from DAA who have been their financial backers heretofore. Shannon Development obviously see the potential and will undoubtfully globally promote Shannon Airport and return the airport to success once again.

There are a huge amount of opportunites available for the development of Shannon Airport both domestically and internationally and now Shannon Airport is out of the clutches of the DAA those opportunities can be developed. There is not just one opportunity available which is what many people continue to discuss but there are many and Shannon Airport will develop those opportunities to the benefit of Shannon Airport and the Mid-West region.

Whether it is developing routes by domestic or international operators or developing the cargo industry or increasing stopover general aviation traffic by way of the US pre-clearance option, Shannon will return to success and I for sure am standing by waiting for the announcements of more destinations so I can benefit from our doorstep airport and more jobs so I can watch the region prosper. However it happens good times are ahead!:):):)

dr.fuzzenstein

LadyTBolt wrote: »

It's amazing how we all become experts in business enterprise while sitting at home sipping tea at our desktops. Are we so naive to think that every viable suggestion presented here hasn't already been explored by the airport, previously DAA. :rolleyes:

Shannon will return to success that is without a doubt. How remains to be seen but it will be operated by an enterprise which requires it to be successful as they cannot operate while losing money after separating from DAA who have been their financial backers heretofore. Shannon Development obviously see the potential and will undoubtfully globally promote Shannon Airport and return the airport to success once again.

There are a huge amount of opportunites available for the development of Shannon Airport both domestically and internationally and now Shannon Airport is out of the clutches of the DAA those opportunities can be developed. There is not just one opportunity available which is what many people continue to discuss but there are many and Shannon Airport will develop those opportunities to the benefit of Shannon Airport and the Mid-West region.

Whether it is developing routes by domestic or international operators or developing the cargo industry or increasing stopover general aviation traffic by way of the US pre-clearance option, Shannon will return to success and I for sure am standing by waiting for the announcements of more destinations so I can benefit from our doorstep airport and more jobs so I can watch the region prosper. However it happens good times are ahead!:):):)

That's the spirit!
Yes, those seem the options ahead.
All the other opportunities that lie ahead for the airport are pretty much a no brainer, it will be important to develop them all.
The Ryanair discussion seems the most emotive and divisive and a lot of people seem to dismiss it with the argument of "ah sure, we never wanted that bollix here anyway".
There's no need to try to bring people around to the idea that cargo and increased trans-atlantic travel together with US pre-clearance are a good idea, but convincing people that the idea of Ryanair bringing in millions of tourists seems to be pretty difficult for some reason.
Some people only look at the bottom line of landing charges in complete isolation to anything else and in that light Ryanair seems a pretty crappy idea.
But looking at the region as a whole, no one can deny that it makes sense.
It is telling that Ryanair seems to grow passenger numbers in almost every country, except this one.
A cargo hub is nice, but the region thrives on tourism and without tourists the region is nothing but a small scale agricultural producer, a few cows, a handful of B&B's and a tiny bit of industry. Internationally not even a blip on anyone's radar.
The potential is massive, bigger even than most people here could ever realise and right now it's at about 5% of what it could be.

PSol

Probably like most people here I'm hopeful (albeit a little nervous) that this solution works in generally re-energising the airport and the area. I am a bit concerned about Shannon Dev losing it's tourism arm as I think this needs to go hand-in-hand with the airport and regional promotion. We have so much to offer as a region, we just need to make sure people know they can land here directly.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

An airport needs passengers, I don't see any arriving and personally I haven't used Shannon for the last 10-15 years, the airport is about as useful as the pope's balls.
It needs to change and this is the chance for it to shine.

However I'm sorry in advance to pick on your statement dr. fuzzenstein but this really troubled me. You seriously haven't used the airport in the last 10-15 years? As someone who uses it about 10 times a year for work/holidays I don't understand this. Is it that you haven't flown from Ireland in this time? Or do you prefer to drive to Dublin/Cork than support your local airport?

Also how can you gauge the level of passenger activity if you haven't been to the airport in that long?

We always use Shannon without exception - on principle and also because there's nothing nicer than landing and knowing it's only a 10 minute drive home. We connect if there isn't a direct flight (typically via Heathrow) and even when that route was gone we used Gatwick for UK trips. If local people have the attitude that they would rather drive 2/3 hours each way to a different airport than make a local airport work for them, then the new authority might as well give up now

irelandrover

PSol wrote: »

Probably like most people here I'm hopeful (albeit a little nervous) that this solution works in generally re-energising the airport and the area. I am a bit concerned about Shannon Dev losing it's tourism arm as I think this needs to go hand-in-hand with the airport and regional promotion. We have so much to offer as a region, we just need to make sure people know they can land here directly.



However I'm sorry in advance to pick on your statement dr. fuzzenstein but this really troubled me. You seriously haven't used the airport in the last 10-15 years? As someone who uses it about 10 times a year for work/holidays I don't understand this. Is it that you haven't flown from Ireland in this time? Or do you prefer to drive to Dublin/Cork than support your local airport?

Also how can you gauge the level of passenger activity if you haven't been to the airport in that long?

We always use Shannon without exception - on principle and also because there's nothing nicer than landing and knowing it's only a 10 minute drive home. We connect if there isn't a direct flight (typically via Heathrow) and even when that route was gone we used Gatwick for UK trips. If local people have the attitude that they would rather drive 2/3 hours each way to a different airport than make a local airport work for them, then the new authority might as well give up now

I live very near the airport. I cannot use Shannon to fly home. They just don't have flights from Holland to Shannon.

dr.fuzzenstein

PSol wrote: »

However I'm sorry in advance to pick on your statement dr. fuzzenstein but this really troubled me. You seriously haven't used the airport in the last 10-15 years? As someone who uses it about 10 times a year for work/holidays I don't understand this. Is it that you haven't flown from Ireland in this time? Or do you prefer to drive to Dublin/Cork than support your local airport?

Also how can you gauge the level of passenger activity if you haven't been to the airport in that long?

Two point one:
I usually travel to Germany once or twice a year.
Do you know how many flights depart from Shannon to Germany?
None, zilch, zero, nada, zip.

Point two:
How do I know Shannon is about as busy as the moon on a quiet day?
Up until two years ago I worked in IT, specifically printing applications and Shannon Airport was one of our main customers. I was there several times a week.
I noticed several things from 2001 to 2010:
At some stage the main car park was always full, then the other car parks filled up and in the end an overflow was operated near the entrance to the airport.
At that time I flew in and out of Shannon, France, Italy and Germany for example.
After Ryanair the main car park had spaces available again (mostly half empty), the departure hall echoed to the sound of nothing and airport workers said to me "Jaysus, than fook that cnut is gone, we'd be run of our feet if they's till be flying here"
I have had a lot of contact with Aer Rianta staff and they hated Ryanair, they where used to their little quango, a quiet life and guaranteed jobs and income.
At the end I could cruise up to departures in my van, abandon it outside in the loading bay and go about my business.
Before that finding a space was quite a challenge.
I could use Shannon if I wanted to connect via Stanstead, but it costs me twice as much and sitting around there for 4 hours is not fun.
So, I HAVE to drive up to Dublin, direct flight, more destinations, cheaper parking and with the new motorway not as much hassle as one thinks.
I WANT to use Shannon, but it's useless, because as far as mainland Europe destinations go, it's useless unless you count flights to Spain for holidays.

TONY DAY

Fuzzenstein, a true story about Aer Rianta out in Shannon. About 15 years ago a friend of mine got a job for the summer with them during his summer holidays from College.
He started getting snide comments from some of the older staff because he managed to get a job there without knowing anyone in the company!!!!
Thats what has this country ruined , people getting jobs based on who they know as opposed to their skill set and ability!!!