Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

Cosmo Kramer

angelfire9 wrote: »

Yep and we can thank the DAA for that

But not anymore thank God
Now, with a bit if luck and a lot of work you and all the other naysayers will see what Shannon can do

But Cork was under DAA control also? And they feel exactly the same way about them as you do! I must say I do look forward to the day when both airports are set free on an equal footing and no longer have anyone else to blame but themselves for their problems.

imurdaddy

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Your posts are making no sense. There are others on this thread who seem to share your viewpoints but I don't think you are doing them any favours with your continued rambling and ignoring of the topic at hand. Anyway, this will be my last interaction with you.

Come back when you have something to back your "facts"

angelfire9

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

But Cork was under DAA control also? And they feel exactly the same way about them as you do! I must say I do look forward to the day when both airports are set free on an equal footing and no longer have anyone else to blame but themselves for their problems.

The DAA did everything they could to kill off Shannon
That included helping Cork get flights if it could take them from SNN

Personally I think it's a city thing
Couldn't stand to see a small "country airport" in the middle of nowhere (from a Jackeen perspective) doing alright
Cork is our second city so they did what they could for it

But things have changed now and we don't need to worry about those p****s anymore

Cosmo Kramer

angelfire9 wrote: »

The DAA did everything they could to kill off Shannon
That included helping Cork get flights if it could take them from SNN

Examples of where this happened please.

billie1b

angelfire9 wrote: »

Last but not least SNN has certainly better runways, you never hear of SNN being closed due to fog!

I'm not gonna join your petty argument but SNN has been closed umpteen times due to fog

notharrypotter

I'm not gonna join your petty argument but SNN has been closed umpteen times due to fog

All Airports are affected by adverse weather in different ways.

During this time some aircraft cannot land as it maybe beyond their capability.

The ash cloud closed the AIRSPACE.

The employees of the different airports attended for work as per usual and the airports were open.

The only thing that will close an airport is physical damage or a sudden staff shortfall.

Please note this applies to ALL airports.

A2LUE42

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Examples of where this happened please.

Refusing to allow an international airline use Shannon and giving them the option of T2 or nothing.

relaxed

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Why are they expanding from Shannon? Firstly, because they promised significant expansion from Ireland in return for the abolition of the travel tax. The tax has been abolished so they need to keep their end of the bargain.

What absolute nonsense. A commercial operation will expand from Shannon for one reason only - profit. They couldn't give a flying fcuk about keeping their end of any imaginary deal that you are after dreaming up.

The reason Ryanair are expanding is they have more planes than ever and need more routes to get a return on their investment and make more profit.

You can rest assured if there was a downturn in business then routes would quickly be abandoned if they were loss making. No way would Ryanair operate loss making routes just for the benefit of your imaginary deal.

dr.fuzzenstein

relaxed wrote: »

What absolute nonsense. A commercial operation will expand from Shannon for one reason only - profit. They couldn't give a flying fcuk about keeping their end of any imaginary deal that you are after dreaming up.

The reason Ryanair are expanding is they have more planes than ever and need more routes to get a return on their investment and make more profit.

You can rest assured if there was a downturn in business then routes would quickly be abandoned if they were loss making. No way would Ryanair operate loss making routes just for the benefit of your imaginary deal.

In fairness I seem to recall O'Leary himself promising to deliver millions of passengers if travel tax was dropped.
Of course Ryanair never do anything out of the goodness of their heart, but that promise by O'Leary was real.

http://www.labour.ie/press/2013/10/16/moloney-calls-on-ryanair-to-honour-prebudget-promi/
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/michael-o-leary-hints-at-more-growth-for-shannon-1-5675592
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/new-ryanair-routes-create-1000-2790053

Brennans Row

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Sorry BR but it is becoming abundantly clear that, while your hopes and intentions for Shannon are obviously well meaning, your obvious bias prevents you from assessing issues relating to the airport with even the slightest degree of objectivity. If you don't get that a route is not viable when it has been dropped by three different carriers in the space of five years then there is clearly not much else that either I, Jamie or anyone else can say to convince you otherwise.

As for the link you provided, what is it that makes the opinion of a journalist at 'de paper' any more legitimate than anything I have to say other than that it states an opinion you want to hear.

"Flybe’s Shannon to Glasgow service is understood to have performed particularly well during the summer"

Understood by who? Backed up by what statistics? Because the passenger numbers posted on both the CSO and CAA websites in relation to the route were dreadful. And the fares were consistently in Ryanair territory, while carrying only a fraction of the passengers - so the yields can't have been up to scratch either.

Sorry, but again I’m not the one who made the general sweeping statement that the demand does not exist in the first place.

That I don’t share your opinion is one thing, but to level remarks at me that I’m bias when I disagree with you is pretty weak posting!

The high numbers on the Glasgow route from 2004 to 2009 would reflect the boom years in Europe before the international banking crisis hit us.

Despite the worsening market conditions in Ireland (property crash) and the closing of Dell, Ryanair were still prepared to bring 1.2 million passengers to Shannon but unfortunately the DAA/SNN were not prepared to do a deal on their terms.

I don’t know how committed Aer Lingus / Aer Aran were on developing this route, as Aer Lingus at the same time very scrupulous to move their profitable Heathrow slots from Shannon to Belfast, which speaks volumes for itself.

I’d imagine Flybe were professional enough to do a bit of market research before they decided to recommence this route last May.

Unfortunately an airline with financial problems is not in a position to develop the routes potential because it simply needs time to so and time is money.

Their capacity in numbers for the first six months was 11.700 and they managed to fill 5.993 of that number which is not a bad when they are just starting a new route.

If the quality of journalism at the Irish Examiner is not to your niveau, then my apologies, in that they did not write what you wanted to hear!

Please quote a quality newspaper source of your choice that supports your standpoint.

To be honest, your impatience expressed here on not giving this route a chance to succeed would seem to stem from a lack of goodwill towards Shannon.

Jamie2k9

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Refusing to allow an international airline use Shannon and giving them the option of T2 or nothing.

Do give details which airlines wanted to fly to SNN but got T2 instead. It commercial sense for an airline to operate from DUB best market and yield for them.

relaxed

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In fairness I seem to recall O'Leary himself promising to deliver millions of passengers if travel tax was dropped.
Of course Ryanair never do anything out of the goodness of their heart, but that promise by O'Leary was real.

http://www.labour.ie/press/2013/10/16/moloney-calls-on-ryanair-to-honour-prebudget-promi/
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/michael-o-leary-hints-at-more-growth-for-shannon-1-5675592
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/new-ryanair-routes-create-1000-2790053

Yes but talk is cheap, and anything for free publicity, if it didn't suit them to open routes they wouldn't, all that matters is profit, and if there is no profit they wouldn't bother with it, its not like there was a contract of any description signed that they had to honour.

Jamie2k9

relaxed wrote: »

Yes but talk is cheap, and anything for free publicity, if it didn't suit them to open routes they wouldn't, all that matters is profit, and if there is no profit they wouldn't bother with it, its not like there was a contract of any description signed that they had to honour.

They would open them, MOL wouldn't go back on his word, if they don't work they will be dropped and replaced with others soon as.

Cosmo Kramer

relaxed wrote: »

What absolute nonsense. A commercial operation will expand from Shannon for one reason only - profit. They couldn't give a flying fcuk about keeping their end of any imaginary deal that you are after dreaming up.

This is incorrect. The route announcements were a direct response to the abolition of the tax. Ryanair had previously stated that they would expand in Ireland if the tax was abolished - they honoured their part of the deal by doing just that and directly referenced the travel tax abolition in their press release on the subject.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-launches-8-new-shannon-routes-in-april-2014

relaxed wrote: »

The reason Ryanair are expanding is they have more planes than ever and need more routes to get a return on their investment and make more profit.

This is incorrect. While, longer term, they will be expanding their fleet, Ryanair are rationalising some of their operations in other markets to allow the Irish expansion in 2014.

relaxed wrote: »

You can rest assured if there was a downturn in business then routes would quickly be abandoned if they were loss making. No way would Ryanair operate loss making routes just for the benefit of your imaginary deal.

I expect Ryanair to honour their promise to deliver at lease 200,000 extra passengers at Shannon in 2014 and 300,000 in 2015 regardless of the profitably or otherwise of their routes. Beyind that though, if they are not making money they will pull them and utilise the capacity elsewhere.

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Refusing to allow an international airline use Shannon and giving them the option of T2 or nothing.

This is extremely vague. Please provide details of the specific airlines and routes involved together with details of how this information came into the public because, at the moment, this is a pointless sweeping statement with no logic or background attached to it. To be honest it sounds highly unlikely and completely made up.

notharrypotter

Please provide details of the specific airlines and routes involved together with details of how this information came into the public because,

I believe this is the International Airline in question.

Jamie2k9

notharrypotter wrote: »

I believe this is the International Airline in question.

And where is the reference to Shannon in that?????

You would also see no Ireland-India traffic and where there is a little most would be in DUB region as O & D.

Anyway they didn't come so SNN can't say they lost out, now can they.

Remember DUB will have every right to try and secure this new route from SNN to the US to so what goes around comes around and all that.....

Cosmo Kramer

Brennans Row wrote: »

Sorry, but again I’m not the one who made the general sweeping statement that the demand does not exist in the first place.

I have three failed efforts to draw upon as evidence that it is not a viable route. You have provided no evidence that it can succeed. Rather than accuse me of 'sweeping statements' that are actually backed up by the three failed attempts, why don't you go and find some evidence to suggest that the route can actually succeed (N.B posting passenger numbers - particularly ones as poor as flybe's on the route - without analysing them against yields is a pointless exercise that demonstrates nothing).

Brennans Row wrote: »

Despite the worsening market conditions in Ireland (property crash) and the closing of Dell, Ryanair were still prepared to bring 1.2 million passengers to Shannon but unfortunately the DAA/SNN were not prepared to do a deal on their terms.

The terms were that Shannon would pay a sum of money for each passenger delivered by Ryanair. Would you advocate that the current management should agree to such a measure?

Brennans Row wrote: »

I don’t know how committed Aer Lingus / Aer Aran were on developing this route, as Aer Lingus at the same time very scrupulous to move their profitable Heathrow slots from Shannon to Belfast, which speaks volumes for itself.

You describe a commercial decision that was to the detriment of Shannon as 'scrupulous' but at the same time refuse to accept that you have a bias towards Shannon - something that has been evident throughout the thread. This is highly contradictory posting - indeed within the same post in this case.

Brennans Row wrote: »

If the quality of journalism at the Irish Examiner is not to your niveau, then my apologies, in that they did not write what you wanted to hear!

Please quote a quality newspaper source of your choice that supports your standpoint.

I would have no interest in a journalistic opinion piece like the one you quoted that is devoid of factual information. If the Examiner published a piece which took account of statistics and facts rather than general vague commentary that is not in any way backed up by evidence it would be more worthwhile.

Brennans Row wrote: »

To be honest, your impatience expressed here on not giving this route a chance to succeed would seem to stem from a lack of goodwill towards Shannon.

How many failed attempts on the route would it take for you to concede that it is not viable? Because evidently three failed efforts is not enough?!

Cosmo Kramer

notharrypotter wrote: »

I believe this is the International Airline in question.

That article does not contain any reference to Shannon Airport.

dr.fuzzenstein

relaxed wrote: »

Yes but talk is cheap, and anything for free publicity, if it didn't suit them to open routes they wouldn't, all that matters is profit, and if there is no profit they wouldn't bother with it, its not like there was a contract of any description signed that they had to honour.

Absolutely. MOL would promise anything to get column inches, it's the cheapest publicity out there. Say something outrageous and watch the media go mad.
Worked very well for them so far.
So far it looks like they will at least have a go at keeping their promise.
How will it work out? Only time will tell, everything else is just SWAG (Scientific wild-assed guess)

notharrypotter

And where is the reference to Shannon in that?????

I have posted a reference to the Airline which had been courted at the time.

Since then as far as I am aware there have been approaches by Shannon Management to an Eastern European airline and an other from the far east.

In each occasion they have proposed the Pre-Clearance facility.

You would also see no Ireland-India traffic

Quite right there would be almost zero.

Anyway they didn't come so SNN can't say they lost out, now can they

.

Remember DUB will have every right to try and secure this new route from SNN to the US to so what goes around comes around and all that.....

You have sort of lost me here.



Every airport in Ireland is touting its wares at every opportunity.

Some will win and some will loose.

Ultimately each airport must develop its own unique selling point.

Ireland is too small for any of the airports outside of Dublin to develop much in the way of a unique difference from the rest.

Bar niche marketing (Shrine/Folk Park/Lakes/Real Capital) what is there?

So it will slowly become a dog eat dog world west of Newlands Cross.

Brennans Row

@ Cosmo Kramer

Let us agree to disagree as they say and in the interest of the thread, let us move on as we have both made our different views known.

immersive

Shannon might need to beware of the repercussions of this though because, if it results in Cork gaining independence from the DAA, the shoe might suddenly be on the other foot and a lot of these routes might be headed back down to the south coast.[/QUOTE]

Or you might see the likes of wizzair re emerging in Cork. Ryanair pushed them out when they started doing the eastern european routes.

Brennans Row

Shannon-based aircraft leasing firm places €3bn order for 40 new Boeings (Independent)

Irish and US aircraft leasing business GECAS has placed an order for 40 Boeing 737s with a list price of nearly $4bn (€3bn).

GECAS (GE Capital Aviation Services) said it placed an order for 20 Boeing 737 Max 8s and 20 next generation 737-800s.

The order comes as Taoiseach Enda Kenny prepares to address a major annual international air finance conference in Dublin this morning. The event, held annually in the capital, draws senior aviation executives from all over the world.

Norman Liu, president and chief executive of GECAS, said the company had ordered more of the aircraft because demand continued to grow and airline customers were also requiring more fuel-efficient aircraft to compete in the marketplace.

"This order further strengthens the large GECAS order book," he said.

ENGINES

It brings the number of 737 Max Boeing aircraft ordered by GECAS to 95 and the number of 737 next generation aircraft it has on order to 387. GECAS is the world's largest aircraft leasing firm.

GECAS is part of General Electric, which also makes jet engines for the 737 as part of a joint venture.

Formed after GE bought the bulk of Tony Ryan's collapsed Guinness Peat Aviation (GPA) in 1993, GECAS manages most of the 1,700 aircraft it has on its books out of Ireland.

In the last 20 years, Ireland has emerged as one of the world's top aviation finance and aircraft leasing bases.

It boggles the mind that Tony Ryan started work with Aer Lingus as a baggage handler at Shannon airport in the 1950s and despite his failed floatation of GPA, he still left our country an amazing aviation legacy behind him (GECAS, Shannon Aerospace, Lufthansa Technik Turbine Shannon, Ryanair).

notharrypotter

Or you might see the likes of wizzair re emerging in Cork

Ever wondered why EASYJET no longer serve Ireland?

dr.fuzzenstein

notharrypotter wrote: »

Ever wondered why EASYJET no longer serve Ireland?

It is an unfortunate side effect of Ryanair dominance in a small country that any other airline trying to compete in the same niche will be forced out at any cost.
So suddenly you have two airlines serving the same route with very low fares at convenient times.
But as soon as the other airline gives up, because they cannot afford to compete with Ryanair's deep pockets, Ryanair may also decide that they have no interest in the route, they just wanted to push an unwanted rival out of the market.
Goes to show that Ryanair do not operate for anyone's benefit than their own.
This doesn't apply quite to the same extend to "proper" airlines like Aer Lingus, because they don't quite compete for the same market, but Ryanair certainly do not like anyone peeing into their soup.
So it is a two edged sword, but years of trying have failed to conjure up another airline to take on Shannon as a base, a few came and went, but as far as the European, non-charter market goes, Ryanair has been the one constant in Shannon for a long time now.
So, we love to hate them, but they're not going to go away any time soon.

highlydebased

Nobody can quite say if SNN-PIK was profitable or what was and wasn't a failure but I don't think it's fair to say all 30 odd routes they operated were failures. Strong summers which carried good numbers to the sun were offset by the largest problem having 6 aircraft at the airport in wintertime trying to fill them- who wants to fly from Hahn or Lubeck to Shannon in the winter....? I'd say few. Similar could be said of flying to Stansted 4 times a day in January etc.

It doesn't take a genius to work out UK routes are where they'll make least money not only because the fare will be next nothing, those flights will carry little checked in luggage, and in flight spending will be low.

Brennans Row

Atlantic Air Venture (Shannon) in collaboration with Limerick Institute of Technology is currently accepting applications for a new 10 week ‘Certificate in Aviation’ evening programme.

This might be of some interest to someone (See Aviation Courses).