Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

lotusm

what are the passenger numbers of American troops going through Shannon now ? , I presume it has fallen substantially and impacted the Airport's revenue. Also just wondering has shannon to operate 24 hours day ,is there any point in bring this down to reduce costs ?

Neworder79

what are the passenger numbers of American troops going through Shannon now

Around 250,000 in 2011 according to press earlier in the year. Not sure how much they have dropped off though.

byebye

I seen a Boeing 747 land shortley after 20:00 hopefuly a signe to come, even if just for maintenance nice to see a big bird back! :cool:

Jim Martin

lotusm wrote: »

what are the passenger numbers of American troops going through Shannon now ? , I presume it has fallen substantially and impacted the Airport's revenue. Also just wondering has shannon to operate 24 hours day ,is there any point in bring this down to reduce costs ?

Control Tower has to be open 24/7 to control Trans-Atlantic movements as I believe all flightpaths from England to US are via Shannon but not sure about the airport as a whole!

Carazy

Jim Martin wrote: »

Control Tower has to be open 24/7 to control Trans-Atlantic movements as I believe all flightpaths from England to US are via Shannon but not sure about the airport as a whole!

That's Shanwick located in Ballygirreen. The Shannon airport tower only controls approach and exiting aircraft afaik.

irishbloke77

Carazy wrote: »

That's Shanwick located in Ballygirreen. The Shannon airport tower only controls approach and exiting aircraft afaik.

Shannon tower control planes in and out of Shannon airport only, along with a few local private small planes that cross over or near the airport.

Shannon air traffic control centre is located about 3 miles east in ballycasey. It's about 1 mile east of the town centre. That handles all traffic above 8,000 feet from about 20 miles east of our east coast to about 250 miles west of our west coast, from about 300 miles north of shannon to 300 miles south of Shannon. This area DOES includes 90% of UK and all European transatlantic traffic so it gets quite busy.

Dublin centre is about 30 milea north, west and east of dublin airport and about 50 miles south of dublin from ground up to 24,500 feet

Ballygireen is a radio station located about 10 miles north of Shannon town. It passes on messages from shanwick oceanic control in Scotland to the planes west of Shannon's airspace, on the north Atlantic ocean outside of radar coverage.

All the abve can be seen on maps on www.iaa.ie

Hope this helps, sorry if it's a bit confusing.

highlydebased

In the Limk Leader today..

RYANAIR’S deputy chief executive Michael Cawley said this week that the airline has tabled a deal to Government that would almost treble passenger numbers at Shannon to one million.

But the company wants charges waived for all additional passengers over the current level of 375,000.

Mr Cawley was in Limerick to speak to the City Council on why Ryanair’s previous base deal at Shannon had been discontinued and how it believes a free deal on additional passengers can benefit Shannon and the region.

New routes to Germany, Italy and the UK are among the new routes Mr Cawley believes Ryanair can make work as long as the price is right.

And that price, according to Michael O’Leary’s second in command, is zero - at least when it comes to Shannon.

“The price of airport facilities in secondary airports around Europe is free to €1 per passenger and that’s what we are trying to tell them (Government). I’m the biggest buyer of airport services in Europe. I deal with that side of our business as well as putting bums on seats on the aircraft. Look at our accounts. Dublin charges us something like €18 per passenger and it’s the same in Stansted. Including those, our average cost around Europe is €3 and what’s driving down the average is all the others who are free.”

Since the previous Shannon deal ended in 2009, airports such as Kerry and Knock have increased Ryanair services. Mr Cawley declined to go into detail on deals with these airports but confirmed it was much more competitive than what the DAA was seeking at Shannon. “What I can tell you is that free is expensive there (Knock and Kerry) now,” he said.

When the five-year base deal at Shannon ended, Ryanair’s costs rose from €1 to €7.50 per head. A further 33 per cent increase in charges as well as the airport departure tax, albeit reduced from €10 to €3, spelled the end for most of Ryanair’s services in Shannon.

The number of aircraft based in the Mid-West has reduced from six to one since 2008 with 24 fewer routes and, crucially, 1.5 million fewer passengers. This amounts for the bulk of the two million passengers shed at Shannon over the last five years.

Mr Cawley says the Government would be “crazy” not to accept Ryanair’s offer to grow passengers to one million - bringing the total back over two million.

And the free deal should be open to Aer Lingus, EasyJet and anybody else interested in growing passenger numbers at Shannon above the current 1.6 million.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/ryanair-seeks-free-deal-to-treble-passengers-at-shannon-airport-1-3977794#.T-SOmVy_3Ec.twitter

dr.fuzzenstein

The sad thing is that the government will try their hardest to scupper this deal.
Government policy here is that Ryanair are a subversive force and must be discouraged at all costs.
Everywhere else this deal would be somehow hammered out, maybe a compromise reached, but in Ireland the government cannot be seen to agree with them.
Million bucks and my left nut says this deal will either be rejected out of hand or after some pretense at negotiations not go through in any way, shape or form.
And a merry band or morons cheering the fact that O'Leary got another kick in the teeth.

irishbloke77

I am not saying its a bad deal for the airport if it goes through at these reduced prices, but let's also remember that extra routes to the UK may also include Ryanair doing routes to any of the same ones that Aer Arann/Aer Lingus currently does. Both airlines wouldn't remain on those routes, AA/AL would pull off them, Ryanair would have a monopoly and could leave again as they have done in the past leaving Shannon no routes again. Hence ryanairs number of trebling THEIR passengers would mean the airports loses passengers elsewhere.
My understanding was in the past that incentives were offered to entice airlines to operate on NEW routes not just restarted routes. Wonder if Ryanair are talking about opening NEW routes where OLD ones had existed, maybe even run by them in the past?
I would just like to finish by stating that I do not work for any airport or customer of the airport and have travelled many many times with Ryanair and respect what they have done to revolutionize the airline industry in Europe. However, by now, surely we all know that Ryanair wants what's best for Ryanair, and not for the local airports or economy, surely his comment about knock and Kerry stating free is expensive should sound warnings as to what they are like.

ronanc15

More details about Ryanairs offer in the Limerick Post and other papers today. Some interesting detail to add.

As Cawley mentioned they are looking for zero landing fees in return for all these passengers number. Between parking and purchases in the airport they estimate that on average the airport would receive €10 per head with €5 of that being profit. All of this without having to incur any additional costs. Most importantly this new passenger count will supposedly create 1000 jobs.

Cawley also advised that there has been a resounding silence from both Shannon Airport authority on DAA. Ryanair are putting the pressure on and have advised if they are to launch new routes they need an answer in the next few weeks. Otherwise they will take the business elsewhere.

Why are they so reluctant to give this a go?

LadyTBolt

ronanc15 wrote: »

Why are they so reluctant to give this a go?

Time to consider to options? Shannon AIrport will not make alot on the parking from Ryanair as Ryanair turnarounds are pretty quick so parking fees will be quite minimal.
Furthermore sales on duty free will benefit Aer Rianta Int. not Shannon Airport and Shannon Airport needs to make a profit.
To accomodate all the incoming/outgoing flights Ryanair plan to introduce if nil movement fees are accepted, Shannon Airport will incur a certain amount of costs to accomdate these movements by way of providing extra airport/security staff to meet the flights. How can they support these costs if the aircraft isn't on the ground long enought to incur parking fees and if they are paying nil movement fees.
Certainly I agree Shannon Airport need to make a deal with Ryanair or another low cost carrier to introduce new routes but I don't think free movement fees is the answer.
Long gone are the days when you could get something for nothing. For the sake of a profitable airport, lets not resurrect them.

ronanc15

LadyTBolt wrote: »

Time to consider to options? Shannon AIrport will not make alot on the parking from Ryanair as Ryanair turnarounds are pretty quick so parking fees will be quite minimal.
Furthermore sales on duty free will benefit Aer Rianta Int. not Shannon Airport and Shannon Airport needs to make a profit.
To accomodate all the incoming/outgoing flights Ryanair plan to introduce if nil movement fees are accepted, Shannon Airport will incur a certain amount of costs to accomdate these movements by way of providing extra airport/security staff to meet the flights. How can they support these costs if the aircraft isn't on the ground long enought to incur parking fees and if they are paying nil movement fees.
Certainly I agree Shannon Airport need to make a deal with Ryanair or another low cost carrier to introduce new routes but I don't think free movement fees is the answer.
Long gone are the days when you could get something for nothing. For the sake of a profitable airport, lets not resurrect them.

Fair points there, would money spent in the restauraunts/bars go to shannon or aer rianta out of curiousity?

I would have thought the parking fees would have been far more than whats currently there (tumbleweed like situation).

Silvics

Do we really need vaulted ceilings and grand designs in an airport nowadays, particularly in a regional airport in a minor country off a densely populated/industrialised/world power of a country, off a continent?
Let's get real, get off the fence and either offer it to the Russians or the US as a military base, with commercial flights, or pull the rug out from under Athlone-(Athlone, which floods/ no airport) and offer it as a hub to the Chinese and throw in all the empty Aer Rianta controlled space. While we're at it, get rid of the airport authority and any local political hack ho wants to throw in his 2c worth.
Shannon is a potential jewel which has been consistently undervalued and appreciated by all political hacks of whatever hue. It is one of the few airports in Europe capable of taking ANY aircraft from Cocorde to the Antonov and the A380. Please, a little vision.

LadyTBolt

ronanc15 wrote: »

Fair points there, would money spent in the restauraunts/bars go to shannon or aer rianta out of curiousity?

I would have thought the parking fees would have been far more than whats currently there (tumbleweed like situation).

More movements will certainly open up more jobs in the service area of the airport even if these services are presently outsourced to contractors. In relation to the parking fees if you were to go by the charges on the Shannon Airport website a Ryanair turnaround would bring approx. 60-120 euro with each turnaround in parking fees but the passenger taxes will bring an increase in revenue, thats for sure. More Ryanair/Other Low Cost Carrier routes would be fantastic for the airport however I do feel this is not the only answer to a successful airport and also I do not think Ryanair should be paying nil movement fees, that is just wrong. If they can fill an aircraft with passengers and make big profits on this why not pay Shannon Airport the €294 (approx.) landing fee for the pleasure of providing the location?
I do also think Shannon Airport should develop new revenue opportunities, they have something special there which is under-utilised waiting to be cracked wide open.

Clareman

AFAIK, the charges that are being charged are service charges, stuff light landing lights, tower services, stuff like that, it's not like these charges won't have to be paid just cause Ryanair aren't paying them.

Again, imvho, Shannon airport shouldn't be selling their soul to 1 type of service such as military, low cost, freight, but a combination of each, the pre-clearance for the US is a massive perk, most freight companies now have a presence on site, grow this, this will increase back end jobs. On top of this, offer it as a stop off service for all other airlines in Europe, British Airways do a stop over from London City Airport which is very popular, push this for all other transatlantic carriers in Europe (this will automatically improve flight options to Shannon)

highlydebased

The shops are concessions now inc the duty free, so I'd imagine that the airport gets the same rent or whatever from the concession regardless of pax throughput. I might be wide of the mark but that makes sense to me anyway.

You can bet that the flights to the UK they think could "work" are the same ones Aer Lingus do....

[-0-]

So what's the craic, is it out from under the DAA yet?

Jim Martin

Why the hell can't they just set up a Shannon Airport Authority and be done with it - is it really that difficult?

golfball37

Jim Martin wrote: »

Why the hell can't they just set up a Shannon Airport Authority and be done with it - is it really that difficult?

SAA have in existence for about 8 years now.

Jim Martin

golfball37 wrote: »

SAA have in existence for about 8 years now.

So why can't they keep it as a seperate entity from DAA?

Mr. G

The DAA should not be part of Shannon. They have led it into the ground and its fairly obvious why they would do so. If it was run locally I'm sure the airport and local community would benefit massively.

crazyguy01

Nice to see some more good news about Shannon Airport:

http://clare.fm/news/shannon-boosted-return-transatlantic-service

Pumpkinseeds

Shannon was a great airport, with a fantastic duty free, right up until they took away the stopover and moved it to Dublin. People fought tooth and nail to keep the transatlantic flights coming to Shannon but were ignored. Slowly and surely Shannon airport has been run into the ground.

I dread flying with Ryanair, I know of nobody that enjoys flying with Ryanair and yet people seem to think we should flock to Michael O'Leary as though he is some sort of saviour. I think he's the last airline we need.

He will demand that he pays nothing or as near as damnit to have him there, saying that the airport should be able to make money from car parking fees and retail sales. Shannon is a small airport with a small duty free. The majority of flights are to European destinations so who the hell would be bothered to buy anything in the airport.

I hope Shannon survives, if it is run properly as it once was, then it should do. The last airline Shannon needs to be dependent on is one that threatens to withdraw its fleet whenever it doesn't get what it wants.

irishbloke77

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Shannon was a great airport, with a fantastic duty free, right up until they took away the stopover and moved it to Dublin. People fought tooth and nail to keep the transatlantic flights coming to Shannon but were ignored. Slowly and surely Shannon airport has been run into the ground.

I dread flying with Ryanair, I know of nobody that enjoys flying with Ryanair and yet people seem to think we should flock to Michael O'Leary as though he is some sort of saviour. I think he's the last airline we need.

He will demand that he pays nothing or as near as damnit to have him there, saying that the airport should be able to make money from car parking fees and retail sales. Shannon is a small airport with a small duty free. The majority of flights are to European destinations so who the hell would be bothered to buy anything in the airport.

I hope Shannon survives, if it is run properly as it once was, then it should do. The last airline Shannon needs to be dependent on is one that threatens to withdraw its fleet whenever it doesn't get what it wants.

Totally agree. Ryanair are fine short term but when they get a hold on an airport, they demand what they like or threaten to pull out with almost no notice(the recent Liverpool cuts are an example). More airlines, less dependency on one airline, no monopoly, the way forward.

Jim Martin

If Ryanair take over Aer Lingus, it could be a disaster as they're not interested in cargo carrying!

dr.fuzzenstein

irishbloke77 wrote: »

Totally agree. Ryanair are fine short term but when they get a hold on an airport, they demand what they like or threaten to pull out with almost no notice(the recent Liverpool cuts are an example). More airlines, less dependency on one airline, no monopoly, the way forward.

Well, that policy has been pursued so far at Shannon, i.e. who needs 'em, and good riddance, and I have to say the airports is...a graveyard.
Yes, every possible avenue of business should be pursued, but this whole thing of "Ah surre, we don't need dat O'Leary bollix here, he can fcuk off" is completely incomprehensible to me.
It's fiddling whilst Rome is burning.

Hidalgo

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Shannon was a great airport, with a fantastic duty free, right up until they took away the stopover and moved it to Dublin. People fought tooth and nail to keep the transatlantic flights coming to Shannon but were ignored. Slowly and surely Shannon airport has been run into the ground.

I dread flying with Ryanair, I know of nobody that enjoys flying with Ryanair and yet people seem to think we should flock to Michael O'Leary as though he is some sort of saviour. I think he's the last airline we need.

He will demand that he pays nothing or as near as damnit to have him there, saying that the airport should be able to make money from car parking fees and retail sales. Shannon is a small airport with a small duty free. The majority of flights are to European destinations so who the hell would be bothered to buy anything in the airport.

I hope Shannon survives, if it is run properly as it once was, then it should do. The last airline Shannon needs to be dependent on is one that threatens to withdraw its fleet whenever it doesn't get what it wants.

One advantage of lots of Ryanair flights coming in is that it could bring in tourists to the mid-west region. While allowing Ryanair cheap landing deals stc may not make the airport itself wealthy the region as a whole will benefit.

We're in no position to turn our nose up at any airline which may help the local economy.
Of course Michael O Leary is looking to maximise his profits, that's his job.

irishbloke77

But the airport makes little to no money from the likes of ryanair. In fact someone told me that whilst ryanair are getting these amazing deals to come into an airport with new routes, the airport is losing money. Ryanairs idea is that they shouldn't pay the airport any money as they are bringing in passengers who will buy stuff at the airport. All well and good, except these days ryanair passengers, aswell as most other airlines, are spending less at the airport. Passengers bring their own sandwiches, get dropped off at the airport so pay no parking charges etc... The airport now gets less money from each passenger going through and loses money per passenger.

The idea of we need ryanair because the airport is "a graveyard" is a bit rash. If the airport loses money from any airline, then why have them here?

I would, however, like to point out, that this would be from the point of view of the airport. From the point of view of everyone outside the airport, Ryanair would be good. We would all either get cheaper flights ourselves, or our economy would get a big boost from the tourism that they would bring in. BUT, if the airport loses money and closes as a result, eg Galway, possibly Waterford, we would have no flights, big drop in tourism, loss of jobs etc...
Yes, we need more flights and lots of them, but only if they can sustain the airport, which in turn will help to boost our area.

ger664

Airport running cost surely have to be looked at. Pay, productivity and conditions will seriously have to be reviewed if the airport is to move forward. We cannot expect either the carrier or joe public to pay excess charges to sustain the airport that is still ruled by a highly unionised workforce. If this is not addressed Shannon Airport will go down the same path as Eircom and Aer Lingus.

Mr. G

Yesterday's move by the Government to split it from the DAA and merge it with Shannon Development represents Shannon Airport's last chance.

It must seize the opportunity represented by the new arrangement, which leaves it debt-free, to carve out a commercially successful future.

Ever since what is now Shannon Airport was first established in 1942 its activities have been heavily influenced by political considerations.

Located in the constituency of the then Taoiseach Eamon de Valera, the airport benefited enormously from the so-called "Shannon stopover", which dictated that all transatlantic flights had to land at Shannon on both the inward and outward legs, even if most of the passengers were travelling to and from Dublin Airport.

Incredibly, the Shannon stopover survived, admittedly in a much-diluted form, until 2008. While such a restriction might have been justified during Shannon's early years in the 1940s and 1950s, its survival into the modern era left the airport dangerously exposed when it was finally abolished. Even more damagingly, the persistence of the stopover bred a dangerous sense of entitlement at a time when all concerned would have been much better employed seeking new business opportunities for the airport.

Now, under the plans announced yesterday by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, Shannon Airport is to be hived off from the DAA, to which it has been unhappily tied since 2004, and merged with Shannon Development. Shannon Airport's €100m debts will remain with the DAA.

The new entity starts life with many advantages.

Not alone will it be debt-free, the airport has the longest runway in the country making it the only Irish airport capable of handling fully-laden Boeing 747s. Shannon Airport also has the advantage of not being subject to any night-time flying restrictions.

As against that, passenger numbers at Shannon have halved to just 1.6 million since 2007.

Shannon's relationship with Ryanair quickly soured while Aer Lingus has withdrawn winter transatlantic services.

The end of US involvement in Iraq and the wind-down of its presence in Afghanistan means that American troop flights, one of Shannon's few remaining sources of revenue, are also set to disappear.

Shannon Airport is now losing €8m a year -- which almost certainly explains the DAA's willingness to shoulder the Shannon debt burden. If Shannon is to have a viable future then it is vital that the merged Shannon Airport/Shannon Development is not a case of, as Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary predicted yesterday, transferring the airport from "one failed semi-state bureaucracy to another".

The key to a successful future for Shannon Airport lies in it recapturing the innovative spirit of its early years. Following yesterday's announcement it is now very much a case of sink or swim for Shannon.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/sink-or-swim-for-shannon-airport-3104134.html

This hasn't happened as of yet. That was published last May.