Shannon Airport (Feb 2012 - Jan 2014)

Pumpkinseeds

Hidalgo wrote: »

One advantage of lots of Ryanair flights coming in is that it could bring in tourists to the mid-west region. While allowing Ryanair cheap landing deals stc may not make the airport itself wealthy the region as a whole will benefit.

We're in no position to turn our nose up at any airline which may help the local economy.
Of course Michael O Leary is looking to maximise his profits, that's his job.

Extra Ryanair flights would be a big asset for Shannon airport and the midwest region, but it should not be the main source of business. Giving Ryanair a monopoly on Shannon or indeed any other airport would, in my opinion, ultimately be detrimental for passengers the airport and businesses.

Currently flying with Ryanair is done by most people out of necessity rather than choice. I know that if there were any other way of me getting to Stansted from Shannon I would take it. As it stands if I want to fly there I have to get up at the crack of dawn to get the 1 flight a day they operate from Shannon and lose an entire day waiting for an evening flight back to Shannon.

A320

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Shannon was a great airport, with a fantastic duty free, right up until they took away the stopover and moved it to Dublin

Not true,they didn't move anything to Dublin,they got rid of the stopover as it was pointless,anti-competitive and actually not convenient for 99% of airlines,if aer lingus choose to get rid of flights its a business decision,remember it's not a charity,Shannon has received some very questionable favouritism over the years.

Shannon will survive once the DAA are gone

Pumpkinseeds

A320 wrote: »

Not true,they didn't move anything to Dublin,they got rid of the stopover as it was pointless,anti-competitive and actually not convenient for 99% of airlines,if aer lingus choose to get rid of flights its a business decision,remember it's not a charity,Shannon has received some very questionable favouritism over the years.

Shannon will survive once the DAA are gone

What it did was effectively route the majority of transatlantic flights away from Shannon and route them through Dublin,essentially strangling business in the midwest. Transatlantic passengers who would have holidayed down this side of the country would have hired cars at Shannon and toured the midwest. Now they land at Dublin and that tourism business is largely gone.

Equally as bad as becoming dependent on Ryanair would be turning the airport into an aid hub. What business would that generate in the region. Gotta love Enda Kenny suggesting that the airport should become a 24 hour aid distribution hub. What about the people living in the town and the surrounding areas, are they supposed to go without sleep with constant jumbos coming and going all night? Shannon needs a mix of cargo and passenger business, not one or the other.

shelbourne ultimatum

Pumpkinseeds,

That is completely untrue!

Services to New York and Boston all continued after the stopover was abolished. Nobody was being "forced" to fly anywhere. Tourists could still happily come to Shannon, directly. Nothing in the mid west was "strangeled" by the decision - it was strangled chiefly by Ryanair pulling out, and the economic crisis. US traffic actually held us better than other sectors of the market out of Shannon, such as European services, which have utterly collapsed.

Do you realise by just how much transatlantic traffic to Ireland has expanded since the stopover was got rid of? How many extra flights per day and choice of destinations there are that were not available from this country before?

Shannon has a core market, and that continues to be served, stopover or no stopover. No other airport in Europe the size of Shannon, or serving a catchment area the size of Shannon's manages to sustain even a fraction of the long haul flights that Shannon does.

Pumpkinseeds

We'll have to agree to disagree on Shannon Airport. What's been good for Dublin has come at the detriment of Shannon. The airport was dying after the stopover was removed and that was long before the Celtic tiger nonsense. Despite Ryanair's previous behaviour people still seem adamant that Michael O'Leary is going to save Shannon, will people never learn:rolleyes:

maryb26

shelbourne ultimatum wrote: »

Pumpkinseeds,

That is completely untrue!

Services to New York and Boston all continued after the stopover was abolished. Nobody was being "forced" to fly anywhere. Tourists could still happily come to Shannon, directly. Nothing in the mid west was "strangeled" by the decision - it was strangled chiefly by Ryanair pulling out, and the economic crisis. US traffic actually held us better than other sectors of the market out of Shannon, such as European services, which have utterly collapsed.

Do you realise by just how much transatlantic traffic to Ireland has expanded since the stopover was got rid of? How many extra flights per day and choice of destinations there are that were not available from this country before?

Shannon has a core market, and that continues to be served, stopover or no stopover. No other airport in Europe the size of Shannon, or serving a catchment area the size of Shannon's manages to sustain even a fraction of the long haul flights that Shannon does.

They are being forced to fly to Dublin because it is $300 dollars cheaper for a family of four to fly to Dublin with Aer lingus than to Shannon from NY. Also have heard of golfers coming to play Ballybunion, Doonbeg and Lahinch and flying to Dublin oblivious to the fact that Shannon exists.

A320

If any airline has 'routed' traffic to dublin instead of Shannon it was probably a business decision,not 'forced'. running an airline isn't done to suit people of a lobby group nor is it a charity,if demand for routes are there then somebody will latch on to it,simple as,pumpkinseeds you are talking tripe,shelbourne perfectly explains it.

Clareman

Wow, the Shannon stop over was taken away about 20 years ago, I remember having a banner going to the All Ireland Semi final in 92 with something on it fighting the stop over, there was also a concert in Cusack Park around that time trying to collect money to keep the stop over.

For me, the stop over couldn't continue, when planes didn't have the fuel capacity to get so far, stopping in Shannon was great, now you can go London to LA no-stop.

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

Wow, the Shannon stop over was taken away about 20 years ago.

It's scary how time flies, I didn't think it was that long ago :eek: I remember Síle de Valera and Tony Killeen resigning the party whip over the stop over, it didn't achieve anything though (well apart from help re-elect them at the next election).

Clareman

1993 it was removed according to wiki.

Lady Chatterton

The stopover was completely abolished in 2008 according to Wiki

In 2007, the European Union and USA announced that an agreement had been reached on an open skies aviation policy. The agreement came into effect from March 30, 2008. This effectively led to the complete abolition of the Shannon Stopover, although this would have happened under the 2005 agreement anyway.

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Airport#Shannon_stopover

It is backed up by another article in the Indo, it appears that the terms of the stop-over agreement was diluted over a period of time before completely ending in 2008.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/sink-or-swim-for-shannon-airport-3104134.html

dasium

Flights to Faro via Aer lingus this summer.... antcipated 20,000 passengers
http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/about-us/latest-news/latest-news/12-11-22/Another_boost_for_Shannon_with_new_Aer_Lingus_service_to_sun-kissed_Algarve_in_2013.aspx

lotusm

what is the anticipated passengers numbers for Shannon for the whole of 2012, they must have leveled out at this stage above 1.6 Million mark from a high of 3.7 million in '07:rolleyes:

bannerlady20

Flights to Faro via Aer lingus this summer.... antcipated 20,000 passengers
http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/ab...e_in_2013.aspx

Great news, glad to see flight's to the Algarve from Shannon again. It should do very well.

lockman

lotusm wrote: »

what is the anticipated passengers numbers for Shannon for the whole of 2012, they must have leveled out at this stage above 1.6 Million mark from a high of 3.7 million in '07:rolleyes:

According to pprune, the number of passengers so far in 2012 are down approx 10% on the 2011 figures.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

MrsD007 wrote: »

The stopover was completely abolished in 2008 according to Wiki

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Airport#Shannon_stopover

It is backed up by another article in the Indo, it appears that the terms of the stop-over agreement was diluted over a period of time before completely ending in 2008.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/sink-or-swim-for-shannon-airport-3104134.html

That's basically it. The relaxation of the requirement enabled direct flights in one direction, so long as Shannon was included in the other leg. The Stopover had to go because of the liberalisation of air routes between EU and US under the "Open Skies" agreement. At the time, Ireland negotiated a transitional arrangement for Shannon to delay the cessation of the Stopover.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52858274

As the Wiki says, the Stopover had been a contentious point for decades; US airlines had pushed for its abolition for decades.

imurdaddy

News coming tomorrow re: Ryanair and Shannon (source, clare people, Twitter)

Sunny Disposition

imurdaddy wrote: »

News coming tomorrow re: Ryanair and Shannon (source, clare people, Twitter)

Saw the Clare People this morning. Basically they repeated a story that was in the Champion a month ago, but they decided it was an exclusive for some reason. Here's the Champion version.

Ryanair set to increase Shannon services
By Owen Ryan
Thursday, 01 November 2012 11:05
IT is believed that Ryanair is to increase its traffic at Shannon significantly, with sources indicating that a deal will be announced following the separation of the airport from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA).

It’s understood Ryanair has made contact with local business people and indicated that as many as six planes could be based at Shannon, where currently there is only one. Having that many planes at Shannon would indicate a huge level of traffic and would give a massive boost to the airport and the regional economy. However, that number seems unlikely given the economic crisis gripping Ireland and Europe.

Ryanair have refused to comment on the matter and in a statement to The Clare Champion on Wednesday the company said, “Ryanair does not comment upon, or engage in, rumour or speculation”.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12187:ryanair-set-to-increase-shannon-services&catid=42:transport&Itemid=60

Mod Note:

Due to recent changes in copyright laws, we are only permitted to post one paragraph and a link to the original article.

lotusm

Ministers to present Shannon Airport proposals to Cabinet http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1127/shannon-airport.html

The Cabinet will today hear proposals on the future of Shannon Airport from two Government departments.

The Government decided in principle to separate Shannon Airport from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA).

Today's proposals envisage a two stage process commencing with the separation of Shannon Airport from the DAA.

The separation would see the airport relieved of its €100m of debt.

The debt would transfer to the DAA which will retain control of Aer Rianta Duty Free in order to help it service the debt.

It will also mean the DAA will no longer be subsidising Shannon Airport.

The second element of the proposal is a medium term plan to merge Shannon Airport with a re-configured Shannon Development entity.

The tourism and enterprise functions of Shannon Development will transfer to Fáilte Ireland and IDA/Enterprise Ireland respectively.

Shannon Development's land banks and property expertise will be merged with Shannon Airport with a view to developing an international aviation services facility in the region.

The proposals will be brought to Cabinet by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar and Enterprise Minister Richard Bruton.

lotusm

Nice to have your Debts written off ... pity the Irish Govt could not get a deal on our Bank Debt with the EU comparing this .... Irish Tax payer on the Hook yet again... sounds like the " re-configured Shannon Development entity" is another quango and have not a clue about running an Airport... Why cant Shannon not be privatised seeing that is now seperated from the DAA and I guess the Irish Taxpayer or am I wrong ?

Mal-Adjusted

Timmy Dooley discussing it now on the radio...

GCU Flexible Demeanour

lotusm wrote: »

Nice to have your Debts written off ... pity the Irish Govt could not get a deal on our Bank Debt with the EU comparing this .... Irish Tax payer on the Hook yet again... sounds like the " re-configured Shannon Development entity" is another quango and have not a clue about running an Airport...

Pragmatically, it's probably the best way of resolving things. I think both Shannon and Dublin want to be able to plough an independent path. Stuffing Dublin with the debt will rankle, but at least the burden will be softened by the income generated by ARI.

lotusm wrote: »

Why cant Shannon not be privatised seeing that is now seperated from the DAA and I guess the Irish Taxpayer or am I wrong ?

I'd say the path would be cleared for a sale, if there is a buyer. On the taxpayer point, just to be clear, the DAA are owned by the State but don't get any funding out of tax.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Saw the Clare People this morning. Basically they repeated a story that was in the Champion a month ago, but they decided it was an exclusive for some reason. Here's the Champion version.

Ryanair set to increase Shannon services
By Owen Ryan
Thursday, 01 November 2012 11:05
IT is believed that Ryanair is to increase its traffic at Shannon significantly, with sources indicating that a deal will be announced following the separation of the airport from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA).

It’s understood Ryanair has made contact with local business people and indicated that as many as six planes could be based at Shannon, where currently there is only one. Having that many planes at Shannon would indicate a huge level of traffic and would give a massive boost to the airport and the regional economy. However, that number seems unlikely given the economic crisis gripping Ireland and Europe.

Ryanair have refused to comment on the matter and in a statement to The Clare Champion on Wednesday the company said, “Ryanair does not comment upon, or engage in, rumour or speculation”.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12187:ryanair-set-to-increase-shannon-services&catid=42:transport&Itemid=60

Mod Note:

Due to recent changes in copyright laws, we are only permitted to post one paragraph and a link to the original article.

Fair dues mod, just pointing out that the Clare People said this was exclusive news this morning, although it came out almost a month ago.

opinionated3

lotusm wrote: »

Nice to have your Debts written off ... pity the Irish Govt could not get a deal on our Bank Debt with the EU comparing this .... Irish Tax payer on the Hook yet again... sounds like the " re-configured Shannon Development entity" is another quango and have not a clue about running an Airport... Why cant Shannon not be privatised seeing that is now seperated from the DAA and I guess the Irish Taxpayer or am I wrong ?

Not all bad for Dublin. They got aer rianta as part of the deal. Making unbelievable profits. That was a company that started in Shannon....

Sunny Disposition

opinionated3 wrote: »

Not all bad for Dublin. They got aer rianta as part of the deal. Making unbelievable profits. That was a company that started in Shannon....

I think you mean they got Aer Rianta International.
Indeed the DAA are getting it and it recorded a profit of €35 million last year despite being founded and developed in Shannon. Two thirds of the staff are based in Shannon with the other third abroad.
The value of ARI is way more than the value of Shannon's debts, it's extremely valuable.

Clareman

I think it's very easy to look at the DAA's accounts and pick out where money is made and lost without understanding it, they seem to have different parts going to different airports, I had hassle with expenses for work before when I parked in Dublin airport, the receipt was for Shannon airport and work was wondering why that was, I rang to find out and all credit card transactions for the car parks go through Shannon.

Personally, I think Shannon being debt free is an amazing opportunity for the airport, it's got 1 of the longest runways in the world, a big terminal building, loads of land around it and loads of hangers, being debt free means they can either sink or swim on their own.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The value of ARI is way more than the value of Shannon's debts, it's extremely valuable.

Bear in mind it's not intrinsic to the airport. DAA will still be servicing Cork Airport's debts, too.

I think it's a sensible compromise.

Clareman wrote: »

Personally, I think Shannon being debt free is an amazing opportunity for the airport, it's got 1 of the longest runways in the world, a big terminal building, loads of land around it and loads of hangers, being debt free means they can either sink or swim on their own.

It does make for a clean sheet, and I agree that's important in establishing this as a new opportunity.

On anorak stuff, Shannon does have quite a long runway, and the longest in the country. Like they say, size is not the only thing, but Shannon wouldn't make it onto the list of the world's longest runways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

But, then, Heathrow doesn't have a 4,000m + runway either!

Clareman

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

On anorak stuff, Shannon does have quite a long runway, and the longest in the country. Like they say, size is not the only thing, but Shannon wouldn't make it onto the list of the world's longest runways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

But, then, Heathrow doesn't have a 4,000m + runway either!

Wasn't the length of the runway a great selling point for training of pilots? When I worked in IT in Shannon I was very involved in Disaster Recovery, 1 of the triggers was a shuttle landing, if the shuttle overshot the US Shannon was on the list of backups, it was very very low on the list btw.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Clareman wrote: »

Wasn't the length of the runway a great selling point for training of pilots?

It should be - it is a good, long runway capable of handling pretty much anything.

Clareman

There used to be regular Concorde training held there