France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

danthefan

Tox56 wrote: »

What does that say?

The headline is "back/return to earth"

Annabella1

Lads...been to Paris six times...and we got the bejaysus beaten out of us every time.
At least the Parisians werent looking down their nose at us last night!

heybaby

A vastly improved performance in the first half showing a level of intensity not seen since the australia game. Why oh why cant we see this intensity in every game? Again however though, we saw the mental fragility of this team in the second half, giving away stupid penalties time and time again. Three times we were in the french 22 and we somehow cough up possession , twice through knocking on!! its as if we were getting a nosebleed, subconsciously these players didnt believe they deserved to beat the french in paris. At this level you simply cannot leave the opposition without some kind of reward.

Our lineout was awful and scrum was so so and the penalty count was very much in the french's favour. Kearney back to his world class best and bowe is a very special player. My fear is that later this week we will see an irish performance more akin to the one we saw in the wales match, this is where kidney really has to deliver. Yesterday was a missed opportunity, kidney has 2 more chances to prove he should remain on in the job. Personally i believe with a different manager we would have won that game yesterday.

Quint2010

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

KERSPLAT!

On SSN that POC and Murray will miss last 2 games

Chucky Norris

Quint2010 wrote: »

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

No rumour o connell and murray out for rest of championship maccarthy and TOL in the squad

uriah

Quint2010 wrote: »

Did I hear a rumour POC is out for the rest of the tournament with a knee injury?

Yes, O'Connell and Murray both out for rest of six nations.
Both with knee injuries

questforfit

Chucky Norris wrote: »

No rumour o connell and murray out for rest of championship maccarthy and TOL in the squad

What a complete ****ing joke.

O'Connell out and instead of Touhy we get McCarthy.

Murray out and instead of Boss OR Marshall we get Tomas 'so favoured by Kidney he gets two years to play himself into form' O'Leary.


Just go away Kidney, please.

phog

How did O'Connell play the and wlak off the field without knowing there was something wrong with his ligaments, I hope by playing on he didn't do more damage.

Fireball07

Seems a bit odd calling up McCarthy ahead of Tuohy, but to be fair, at least he's in form. My only problem would be he's a bit older and is a short-term solution at best. Still, I have no doubt he'll perform admirably.

But the loss of POC is more than just a personnel issue, his inspirational and leadership qualities cannot be underestimated.


Has a new captain been chosen? Best or Heaslip, I suppose.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

How did O'Connell play the and wlak off the field without knowing there was something wrong with his ligaments, I hope by playing on he didn't do more damage.

It's still not as impressive as Willie John playing with the broken collar bone! But still impressive, POC is the man. Players like himself and Drico just won't be stopped by something as silly as an injury... Only a flesh wound

questforfit

Something I thought I'd add.

After Earls' defensive blooper does anyone else think McFadden should be given a go at 13? He did no wrong in the Wales game whereas Earls gave up a try against France. Theres not much in it between them at 13 though I'd argue McFadden is a lot more solid. I definitely think he should get a chance the next game.

Le Henry

questforfit wrote: »

Something I thought I'd add.

After Earls' defensive blooper does anyone else think McFadden should be given a go at 13? He did no wrong in the Wales game whereas Earls gave up a try against France. Theres not much in it between them at 13 though I'd argue McFadden is a lot more solid. I definitely think he should get a chance the next game.

Christ man did ya see the Welsh game?..McFadden solid?..He was pushed aside very easily by North a couple of times, once leading directly to Davies try..Like a knife through soft butter...

questforfit

Le Henry wrote: »

Christ man did ya see the Welsh game?..McFadden solid?..He was pushed aside very easily by North a couple of times, once leading directly to Davies try..Like a knife through soft butter...

Both of Davies try had nothing to do with McFadden. Both were in the corner where Bowe was.

Clegg

Le Henry wrote: »

Christ man did ya see the Welsh game?..McFadden solid?..He was pushed aside very easily by North a couple of times, once leading directly to Davies try..Like a knife through soft butter...

I think Darcy is was more to blame then Mc Fadden in that instance. Darcy missed the tackle on North at the start. Mc F was stepping backwards all the time in an attempt to keep the (poor) defensive line which Ireland held. He couldn't really set himself for the tackle while he was stepping backwards.

North is a monster, there's not many that could stop him after he's built up a full head of steam.

Le Henry

questforfit wrote: »

Both of Davies try had nothing to do with McFadden. Both were in the corner where Bowe was.

Man you must have been watching another game, North came off his wing and took ball at speed and brushed aside McFadden Like he wasn't der..seconds later davies was under the sticks!!...McFadden had his chance against Wales and did not impressed, Earls has comeback in and has played reasonable well...deserves stay..

questforfit

Le Henry wrote: »

Man you must have been watching another game, North came off his wing and took ball at speed and brushed aside McFadden Like he wasn't der..seconds later davies was under the sticks!!...McFadden had his chance against Wales and did not impressed, Earls has comeback in and has played reasonable well...deserves stay..

Ah you've refreshed me.

You're correct. Although essentially they've both been responsible for giving up tries so McFadden should get a go against Scotland. Development and all that. Earls hasnt been exceptional enough to cement the 13 jersey.

phog

Le Henry wrote: »

Man you must have been watching another game, North came off his wing and took ball at speed and brushed aside McFadden Like he wasn't der..seconds later davies was under the sticks!!...McFadden had his chance against Wales and did not impressed, Earls has comeback in and has played reasonable well...deserves stay..

Facts, facts those damn facts keep getting in the way of a good rant.;)

Le Henry

questforfit wrote: »

Ah you've refreshed me.

You're correct. Although essentially they've both been responsible for giving up tries so McFadden should get a go against Scotland. Development and all that. Earls hasnt been exceptional enough to cement the 13 jersey.

Possibly correct..we have two games for development essential because we have nothing to play for ...though I thought D'Arcy and Earls complimented each other well yesterday put in decent defensive shift bar the French try!!..Last quarter defensively excellent

questforfit

phog wrote: »

Facts, facts those damn facts keep getting in the way of a good rant.;)

What are you talking about?

Earls was responsible for leaking a try directly.

McFadden was responsible for leaking a try indirectly.

Both were at fault for a try.

Where am I factually incorrect? tbh I'm sick of the persistent condescending tone to your posts. I really don't know why you are consistently allowed to respond to users as you do. You seem to have difficulty in replying without trying to mock someone.

questforfit

Le Henry wrote: »

Possibly correct..we have two games for development essential because we have nothing to play for ...though I thought D'Arcy and Earls complimented each other well yesterday put in decent defensive shift bar the French try!!..Last quarter defensively excellent

Bar the french try?

So an exclusion for Earls' blunder but not for McFaddens (which was much more indirect)?

Cpt_Blackbeard

questforfit wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Earls was responsible for leaking a try directly.

McFadden was responsible for leaking a try indirectly.

Both were at fault for a try.

Where am I factually incorrect? tbh I'm sick of the persistent condescending tone to your posts. I really don't know why you are consistently allowed to respond to users as you do. You seem to have difficulty in replying without trying to mock someone.

Earls was no more at fault than either Kearney or D'Arcy.

questforfit

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Earls was no more at fault than either Kearney or D'Arcy.

How do you work that out? Earls was closest to the ball it was his to dive on. Instead he miskicked it resulting in a try.

irishbucsfan

questforfit wrote: »

How do you work that out? Earls was closest to the ball it was his to dive on. Instead he miskicked it resulting in a try.

D'Arcy was closer at first.

Le Henry

questforfit wrote: »

Bar the french try?

So an exclusion for Earls' blunder but not for McFaddens (which was much more indirect)?

Earls is all round better footballer..has to be retained...end of!!..McFadden has I said earlier had a massive opportunity to stake a claim against Wales and game passed him by.At this level you have to take every opportunity!!

irishbucsfan

questforfit wrote: »

Bar the french try?

So an exclusion for Earls' blunder but not for McFaddens (which was much more indirect)?

This is ridiculous! You are being extremely unfair on Earls here.

Someone ran directly over McFadden, but that's less direct than being part of a duo that didn't jump on a bouncing ball nowhere near the try line that was then picked up by an opposition back who managed to run around another player and score a try.

No logic to that. McFadden has much bigger defensive issues than Earls and those who watch him regularly should know that.

DDC1990

To be honest, i think its time we just got rid of Earls, ROG, DOC, TOL all the Munster deadweight along with that Munsterlover Kidney.

However, Heaslip could also be dropped (been shíte for years now), and there is no way sexton should play because he can't kick for shít, and SOB shouldn't be playing because he's a rubbish 7. Best couldn't hit a barn door with lineouts, and should be dropped.

Thank christ Murray is injured because he is the reason we lost to Wales and only Drew with france... slow ball and all that. TBH he's been rubbish for years! Also lucky POC is injured and we can blood new young players like 30 year old Mike McCarthy.

D'Arcy has been past it for years, and Trimble couldn't tackle his grandmother.

Only by dropping all these players and the manager from the team, will Ireland progress.

Think i've summerised this thread rather well.

Le Henry

DDC1990 wrote: »

To be honest, i think its time we just got rid of Earls, ROG, DOC, TOL all the Munster deadweight along with that Munsterlover Kidney.

However, Heaslip could also be dropped (been shíte for years now), and there is no way sexton should play because he can't kick for shít, and SOB shouldn't be playing because he's a rubbish 7. Best couldn't hit a barn door with lineouts, and should be dropped.

Thank christ Murray is injured because he is the reason we lost to Wales and only Drew with france... slow ball and all that. TBH he's been rubbish for years! Also lucky POC is injured and we can blood new young players like 30 year old Mike McCarthy.

D'Arcy has been past it for years, and Trimble couldn't tackle his grandmother.

Only by dropping all these players and the manager from the team, will Ireland progress.

Think i've summerised this thread rather well.

Jes you are very pessimistic!!

questforfit

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is ridiculous! You are being extremely unfair on Earls here.

Someone ran directly over McFadden, but that's less direct than being part of a duo that didn't jump on a bouncing ball nowhere near the try line that was then picked up by an opposition back who managed to run around another player and score a try.

No logic to that. McFadden has much bigger defensive issues than Earls and those who watch him regularly should know that.

North going over McFadden didnt lead directly to the try. Though he smashed McFadden he offloaded anyway. It wasn't a case that he ran through McFadden, offloaded and Davies scored. He smashed into McFadden, offloaded and Davies ran in for the try.

Earls miskicked and France scored. That is direct responsibility for the try. I don't buy this nonsense that D'arcy had any time to jump on that ball. No player has that reaction speed by the time the ball hit the ground near D'arcy it was gone.

I think your just trying to appear completely unbiased and overcompensating to be honest. Watch that try again and honestly tell me that D'arcy was just as much at fault as Earls. Its fantasy.

questforfit

DDC1990 wrote: »

To be honest, i think its time we just got rid of Earls, ROG, DOC, TOL all the Munster deadweight along with that Munsterlover Kidney.

However, Heaslip could also be dropped (been shíte for years now), and there is no way sexton should play because he can't kick for shít, and SOB shouldn't be playing because he's a rubbish 7. Best couldn't hit a barn door with lineouts, and should be dropped.

Thank christ Murray is injured because he is the reason we lost to Wales and only Drew with france... slow ball and all that. TBH he's been rubbish for years! Also lucky POC is injured and we can blood new young players like 30 year old Mike McCarthy.

D'Arcy has been past it for years, and Trimble couldn't tackle his grandmother.

Only by dropping all these players and the manager from the team, will Ireland progress.

Think i've summerised this thread rather well.

Do you believe that DOC, ROG and TOL deserve to be starting :eek:

Fireball07

DDC1990 wrote: »

To be honest, i think its time we just got rid of Earls, ROG, DOC, TOL all the Munster deadweight along with that Munsterlover Kidney.

However, Heaslip could also be dropped (been shíte for years now), and there is no way sexton should play because he can't kick for shít, and SOB shouldn't be playing because he's a rubbish 7. Best couldn't hit a barn door with lineouts, and should be dropped.

Thank christ Murray is injured because he is the reason we lost to Wales and only Drew with france... slow ball and all that. TBH he's been rubbish for years! Also lucky POC is injured and we can blood new young players like 30 year old Mike McCarthy.

D'Arcy has been past it for years, and Trimble couldn't tackle his grandmother.

Only by dropping all these players and the manager from the team, will Ireland progress.

Think i've summerised this thread rather well.

I agree. So here's our new team

1. Healy
2. Annett (Young, not from Munster, Best and Cronin can't throw)
3. Ross
4. McCarthy
5. Tuohy
6. Ferris
7. O'Connor
8. Henry
9. Reddan
10. Madigan
11. Kearney jnr
12. McFadden
13. O'Malley
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

DDC1990

Le Henry wrote: »

Jes you are very pessimistic!!

If you are serious, this is the funniest post on boards that i've ever read.

irishbucsfan

questforfit wrote: »

North going over McFadden didnt lead directly to the try. Though he smashed McFadden he offloaded anyway. It wasn't a case that he ran through McFadden, offloaded and Davies scored. He smashed into McFadden, offloaded and Davies ran in for the try.

:pac:

questforfit wrote: »

Earls miskicked and France scored. That is direct responsibility for the try. I don't buy this nonsense that D'arcy had any time to jump on that ball. No player has that reaction speed by the time the ball hit the ball near D'arcy it was gone.

I think your just trying to appear completely unbiased and overcompensating to be honest. Watch that try again and honestly tell me that D'arcy was just as much at fault as Earls. Its fantasy.

Not at all. I know well that McFadden is not a 13 because he regularly misses tackles for both Ireland and Leinster. He is not sound enough defensively to play the position at inernational level.

I have said repeatedly that I would prefer Earls to McFadden. I prefer O'Malley to McFadden as well. McFadden's defense has been an issue ever since he became a full pro and is exactly why he was removed from the 13 position in the first place.


When he got smashed by North he displayed awful technique, and I don't fancy watching Graeme Morrison or Sean Lamont do the same to him. He actually tackles in a similar way to Quade Cooper (although not nearly as severe an issue for him, nor does he ever chicken out and run away like Cooper against Nonu). Footwork and body position all over the shop.

He should be about 5th or 6th in line for the jersey (BOD, Earls, Griffin, Cave, O'Malley all better).


Earls has done a great job filling the jersey thus far. He has not gotten much opportunity to attack thanks to some atrocious halfback play but I think it would be highly incorrect to remove him at this point. He is working out his flaws with ball in hand and hopefully could be a long-term option there.

justsomebloke

Questforfit don't post on this thread again

Cpt_Blackbeard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

:pac:

Not at all. I know well that McFadden is not a 13 because he regularly misses tackles for both Ireland and Leinster. He is not sound enough defensively to play the position at inernational level.

I have said repeatedly that I would prefer Earls to McFadden. I prefer O'Malley to McFadden as well. McFadden's defense has been an issue ever since he became a full pro and is exactly why he was removed from the 13 position in the first place.


When he got smashed by North he displayed awful technique, and I don't fancy watching Graeme Morrison or Sean Lamont do the same to him. He actually tackles in a similar way to Quade Cooper (although not nearly as severe an issue for him, nor does he ever chicken out and run away like Cooper against Nonu). Footwork and body position all over the shop.

He should be about 5th or 6th in line for the jersey (BOD, Earls, Griffin, Cave, O'Malley all better).


Earls has done a great job filling the jersey thus far. He has not gotten much opportunity to attack thanks to some atrocious halfback play but I think it would be highly incorrect to remove him at this point. He is working out his flaws with ball in hand and hopefully could be a long-term option there.

The bolded part is the most important point imo. He is visibly working on his game which is great to see. The recent interview with him where he mentioned that he has been putting in extra work on his defense was great to read.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

:pac:

Not at all. I know well that McFadden is not a 13 because he regularly misses tackles for both Ireland and Leinster. He is not sound enough defensively to play the position at inernational level.

I have said repeatedly that I would prefer Earls to McFadden. I prefer O'Malley to McFadden as well. McFadden's defense has been an issue ever since he became a full pro and is exactly why he was removed from the 13 position in the first place.


When he got smashed by North he displayed awful technique, and I don't fancy watching Graeme Morrison or Sean Lamont do the same to him. He actually tackles in a similar way to Quade Cooper (although not nearly as severe an issue for him, nor does he ever chicken out and run away like Cooper against Nonu). Footwork and body position all over the shop.

He should be about 5th or 6th in line for the jersey (BOD, Earls, Griffin, Cave, O'Malley all better).


Earls has done a great job filling the jersey thus far. He has not gotten much opportunity to attack thanks to some atrocious halfback play but I think it would be highly incorrect to remove him at this point. He is working out his flaws with ball in hand and hopefully could be a long-term option there.

Earls has come on certainly, particularly in defence, but McFadden and Earls both looked to offer little going forward.

Yes EOM is raw, and yes I would prefer Cave, but I feel EOM can defend just as well (if not better, he certainly has better positioning and awareness), and will offer a threat going forward, at least more of a threat than Earls/McFadden.

Earls is not a disaster as was initially predicted, but he just isn't a creative type of player, and is so much more effective on the wing.

Similarly whilst we have to put into context Reddan's performance against Italy, so too must we put into context Earls v France, Rougerie had an absolute shocker.

That being said, he stood up every time he was called upon in defence, I would just like to see EOM given a shot, although I accept that simply won't happen. I have no problem Earls proving me wrong, I just don't feel his best will be as good as EOM's.

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

:pac:

Not at all. I know well that McFadden is not a 13 because he regularly misses tackles for both Ireland and Leinster. He is not sound enough defensively to play the position at inernational level.

I have said repeatedly that I would prefer Earls to McFadden. I prefer O'Malley to McFadden as well. McFadden's defense has been an issue ever since he became a full pro and is exactly why he was removed from the 13 position in the first place.


When he got smashed by North he displayed awful technique, and I don't fancy watching Graeme Morrison or Sean Lamont do the same to him. He actually tackles in a similar way to Quade Cooper (although not nearly as severe an issue for him, nor does he ever chicken out and run away like Cooper against Nonu). Footwork and body position all over the shop.

He should be about 5th or 6th in line for the jersey (BOD, Earls, Griffin, Cave, O'Malley all better).


Earls has done a great job filling the jersey thus far. He has not gotten much opportunity to attack thanks to some atrocious halfback play but I think it would be highly incorrect to remove him at this point. He is working out his flaws with ball in hand and hopefully could be a long-term option there.

Excellent post...I actually agree with every single part of it. In fact, I've said all those things before (except for the Quade Cooper comparison, that's a good one, but I'd say it's slightly harsh on McFadden).


I think McFadden will be an excellent 12 and is an okay option to come on at 13 as a last resort. I mean I'd rather him there than Trimble or someone. But if it wasn't for Kidney's loyalty to D'Arcy, I think he might be a starter at 12.

irishbucsfan

I'm not convinced by EOM's ability as a long-term option for Ireland just yet. I think he has the defense, he has the distribution, he has good pace. But I think there is something else missing, possibly his power with ball in hand. IE He needs to be able to go around people OR through them to ensure ball-quality. I'm not really sure.

I really like the guy as a player and I'm delighted to have him as Leinster's 13 but is he just keeping the jersey for Macken at this stage? I'm not sure. I don't buy into the whole big centers craze but I do think there is some merit to it, and EOM is probably just a little undersized for the next level.

I would be excited to see what he could do for us, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cave or Griffin go on to have better careers than him.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm not convinced by EOM's ability as a long-term option for Ireland just yet. I think he has the defense, he has the distribution, he has good pace. But I think there is something else missing, possibly his power with ball in hand. IE He needs to be able to go around people OR through them to ensure ball-quality. I'm not really sure.

I really like the guy as a player and I'm delighted to have him as Leinster's 13 but is he just keeping the jersey for Macken at this stage? I'm not sure. I don't buy into the whole big centers craze but I do think there is some merit to it, and EOM is probably just a little undersized for the next level.

I would be excited to see what he could do for us, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cave or Griffin go on to have better careers than him.

I would agree with that principle, but of the available options (ie. McFadden/Earls/EOM) I think both long-term and short-term he is the better option. Earls isn't exactly known for his physicality, and I doubt he will be running through international centres anytime soon.

I also think distribution is the strongest part of his game, something we sorely seem to lack, and something Earls struggles with. Getting the ball out of the wingers we have would be vital. It would also unleash Kearney a little more, as he tends to fill in the outside centre role for backline moves, as Earls' distribution clearly isn't fully trusted.

I think Earls could become good at 13 with a run of games, but I think EOM would be better given the same opportunity.

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm not convinced by EOM's ability as a long-term option for Ireland just yet. I think he has the defense, he has the distribution, he has good pace. But I think there is something else missing, possibly his power with ball in hand. IE He needs to be able to go around people OR through them to ensure ball-quality. I'm not really sure.

I really like the guy as a player and I'm delighted to have him as Leinster's 13 but is he just keeping the jersey for Macken at this stage? I'm not sure. I don't buy into the whole big centers craze but I do think there is some merit to it, and EOM is probably just a little undersized for the next level.

I would be excited to see what he could do for us, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cave or Griffin go on to have better careers than him.

While I agree with the above, I still reckon he was a better option for this 6 Nations than Earls, but we'll never know.

Having said that, critical as I've been of moving him to centre, Earls hasn't let anyone down. I still reckon we're better playing centres in the centre, and not moving wingers in there...but he hasn't been the disaster his previous performances suggested before the tournament.

Still reckon we're wasting him by not having him in his best position thought, which is wing.

GerM

Watched the second Bowe try again there. He really did get rather fortunate. The kick was completely the wrong option and if that had gone into touch, Kearney should have given him an earful as he was clean through The lad just can't do any wrong right now; whatever he touches turns to gold!

chris_d

Any figure on the amount of irish supporters in the crowd? Did not seem like a lot.

That is a great picture of Healy's tackle on Clerc. Did Trimble hit him early on as well? i remember he hit somebody who stayed down. Was a nice marker for the first half.

Shame about the second half, that drift defence coming back was maddening. Was it tiredness or tactics?

Cant wait for the scotland game now.

durkadurka

GerM wrote: »

Watched the second Bowe try again there. He really did get rather fortunate. The kick was completely the wrong option and if that had gone into touch, Kearney should have given him an earful as he was clean through The lad just can't do any wrong right now; whatever he touches turns to gold!

Brian moore called that at the time. He got lucky with three bounces too.

phog

deleted, just seen a mod post

durkadurka

I recommend a listen to shaggy and woody on newstalk podcast tonight.
Very good analysis.

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

I recommend a listen to shaggy and woody on newstalk podcast tonight.
Very good analysis.

What time were they on at?

durkadurka

CatFromHue wrote: »

What time were they on at?

8pm. If you go into the rugby section you'll see it by date.

Big Nelly

durkadurka wrote: »

I recommend a listen to shaggy and woody on newstalk podcast tonight.
Very good analysis.

link?

durkadurka

Big Nelly wrote: »

link?

I listened on my phone. Don't know how to do it on a pc! Soz

MungBean

CatFromHue wrote: »

What time were they on at?

http://www.newstalk.ie/podcasts

Latest podcast - Off the Ball