France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

Yes SOB has never ever played 8 and also he cant play 6 or 7 either; just ask Kidney

we're talking about leamy getting selected ahead of obrien for the AIs a couple of years ago when Obrien had been playing 6 (and coming back from a season ending injury). up to his injury he had been covering for jennings at 7 who was suspeded for 3 months.

He started playing 8 about Dec 10 when Heislip was out for a few weeks injured and sob started at 8 against italy in last year's 6ns.

leftleg

MrDerp wrote: »

Current squad, with cap numbers included, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_national_rugby_union_team#Current_squad

We have 5 out and out wingers in the 30-man squad. 2 are starting on Sunday, 1 is starting at 13, and 2 are uncapped and outside the 22.

Poor McFadden has to provide cover as utility back. I'm not a particular fan, but while the first 15 are practicing drills in a single position, he has to know the moves and positioning from 3? Anyone in that situation is likely to have mistakes that taint their international career. Utility backs should be experienced internationals who are no longer up for consideration as no.1, not guys fighting for any ould place that becomes free.

We have 6 backrow players in the squad. The three replacements have three caps between them. O'Mahoney is number 1 replacement because he's supposedly on a hot streak from HC, and is younger than Henry.

Our squad development stinks.

Our coach stinks

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

.ak wrote: »

Reddan > Murray.

Simples. So why not use Reddan to win some games?

To be honest, if I was coach, I'd be looking to develop Murray as well, and I'd be giving him starts. But that's not what Declan Kidney is about - when has he EVER looked towards the development of a player so early without any experience? And why is he doing it with just ONE player now?

My reasoning would probably be there is a definite riff between DK and Reddan. You wonder if those rumors are true now.

Also, I'm interested in reading Kurt McQuilkin's analysis this week. As a defense coach it'd be interesting to read his opinion on the matter, which no doubt he will look into - Do you go to France with a defensively sound SH but that also is impotent in attack? Or do you go for the lighter, defensively unsound SH that is renowned for his speed and link play with the backs for attack?

Also, why is there this obsession for defensive SHs? If they have an all round game, ala Phillips or Boss, then okay I can see the point. France get on fine with tiny Parra, and Australia with Genia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQp-7fHbxb4

Reddan can be very loose with his passes. not a good thing with vincent clerc hanging around. Doesn't he have a couple of international intercept tries to his name.

Well you have to break a few eggs to make an omlete. Reddan may get picked off every now and again but at least he tries different things. It would be very hard for Murray to get picked off as he either passes 2 yards to POC or 10 yards behind the gain line. That is of course when he's not at the bottom of rucks or trying those silly box kicks every 2 minutes.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

Yes SOB has never ever played 8 and also he cant play 6 or 7 either; just ask Kidney

we're talking about leamy getting selected ahead of obrien for the AIs a couple of years ago when Obrien had been playing 6 (and coming back from a season ending injury). up to his injury he had been covering for jennings at 7 who was suspeded for 3 months.

He started playing 8 about Dec 10 when Heislip was out for a few weeks injured and sob started at 8 against italy in last year's 6ns.

SOB had played 8 for leinster before then. He even captained them in a pre season game against Wasps when starting at 8.

Leamy had no form, no fitness, and was an inferior player. It was a ridiculous selection.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

we're talking about leamy getting selected ahead of obrien for the AIs a couple of years ago when Obrien had been playing 6 (and coming back from a season ending injury). up to his injury he had been covering for jennings at 7 who was suspeded for 3 months.

He started playing 8 about Dec 10 when Heislip was out for a few weeks injured and sob started at 8 against italy in last year's 6ns.

And when did POM start playing 7 seeing as you said he was "primarily" an 8 and a 6

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Doesn't Quade Cooper? What's your point? You keep banging that drum. Point is he's delivered Ireland their two best performances in over two years. I'll take that over a couple of intercept tries.

EDIT: By couple of intercept tries I presume you meant Reddan conceding some intercepts. If you meant Clerc, well my point still stands.

didn't know quade cooper was a scrumhalf

the point of the video is to demonstrate why physically strong shs are preferred

I think the ireland pack delivered the best performances over the last 2 years. (see what ferris was doing in that video clip in one of those performances).

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

we're talking about leamy getting selected ahead of obrien for the AIs a couple of years ago when Obrien had been playing 6 (and coming back from a season ending injury). up to his injury he had been covering for jennings at 7 who was suspeded for 3 months.

He started playing 8 about Dec 10 when Heislip was out for a few weeks injured and sob started at 8 against italy in last year's 6ns.

Well I'm talking about the the AIs in 2010.

Yes that's how recently Kidney was ignoring SOB.

Timothy Bryce

Deleted User wrote: »

not to mention that there's plenty more contenders for captain before Sexton would be near the front.
Best, Ferris, Heaslip, SOB all far more likely candidates.

I think Heaslip would make a horrendous captain - he reminds me of BOD running around in 'K' during the 'Glenda' days.

Too much of a jack the lad for my liking....I think Best or Sexton would be better candidates. However, I think POC is the pick of the bunch at the moment which makes it a moot point.

Timothy Bryce

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

I think Heaslip would make a horrendous captain - he reminds me of BOD running around in 'K' during the 'Glenda' days.

and we all know how **** a captain BOD turned out to be...

:pac:

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

didn't know quade cooper was a scrumhalf

the point of the video is to demonstrate why physically strong shs are preferred

I think the ireland pack delivered the best performances over the last 2 years. (see what ferris was doing in that video clip in one of those performances).

The point I'm making is Cooper also plays the ball very flat against the line, which is very open to intercept tries. However, you don't see Deans dropping Cooper for it. Why? Because whilst Cooper could be defensively unsound he also adds heaps to the tempo and intensity of the attack. I'm sorry I didn't pick a SH comparison, but you get the idea, and the point still stands.

JRant said it perfectly: You have to break some eggs to make an omlette.

The two most impressive all round performances from Ireland since DK took over has been with Sexton and Reddan partnership. It's a fact that no one can deny, no matter how much you want to look elsewhere. The question is, why won't Kidney play a tried and tested world class pairing?

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

And when did POM start playing 7 seeing as you said he was "primarily" an 8 and a 6

JM08 .... unlike sob, O'mahoney has played a fair bit at no 8 (as well as 6 & 7) . munster seem to like their players to play several positions (or at least be able to do a job there).

for the record, he has played on the wing for Cork Con

leftleg

Deleted User wrote: »

and we all know how **** a captain BOD turned out to be...

:pac:

awful year in 2009 as captain; horrendous; cant remember the amount of matches Ireland lost in 2009 while he was captain....oh wait

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

and we all know how **** a captain BOD turned out to be...

:pac:

Much to Hook's dismay.

leftleg

.ak wrote: »

Much to Hook's dismay.

everything is to Hooks dismay

Timothy Bryce

Deleted User wrote: »

and we all know how **** a captain BOD turned out to be...

:pac:

Thankfully someone had a word in his ear somewhere along the line and set him straight

jm08

.ak wrote: »

The point I'm making is Cooper also plays the ball very flat against the line, which is very open to intercept tries. However, you don't see Deans dropping Cooper for it. Why? Because whilst Cooper could be defensively unsound he also adds heaps to the tempo and intensity of the attack. I'm sorry I didn't pick a SH comparison, but you get the idea, and the point still stands.

JRant said it perfectly: You have to break some eggs to make an omlette.

The two most impressive all round performances from Ireland since DK took over has been with Sexton and Murray partnership. It's a fact that no one can deny, no matter how much you want to look elsewhere. The question is, why won't Kidney play a tried and tested world class pairing?

I was making the point was to why reddan's lack of physicality is an issue. He gets turned over very easily and I can't see ferris carrying murray or Phillips like the way he carted Genia in that clip.

fairplay, you've seen the light - and they have only played 3 games together - thats 2/3. How many times have sexton& reddan started together

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

I was making the point was to why reddan's lack of physicality is an issue. He gets turned over very easily and I can't see ferris carrying murray or Phillips like the way he carted Genia in that clip.

fairplay, you've seen the light - and they have only played 3 games together - thats 2/3. How many times have sexton& reddan started together

Hahah, meant Reddan obviously. :P

WeleaseWoderick

jm08 wrote: »

I was making the point was to why reddan's lack of physicality is an issue. He gets turned over very easily and I can't see ferris carrying murray or Phillips like the way he carted Genia in that clip.

fairplay, you've seen the light - and they have only played 3 games together - thats 2/3. How many times have sexton& reddan started together

When exactly has this been the case? Showing a video of a different scrumhalf being turned over isn't a justification for not picking someone!

leftleg

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly has this been the case? Showing a video of a different scrumhalf being turned over isn't a justification for not picking someone!

I as just about to ask what Genia has to do with any of this; Australia's scrum got pulverised in that game; not much a bigger SH would have doen for them there; Genia is probably the best SH in the world and even he couldnt get away from out our backrow.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well I'm talking about the the AIs in 2010.

Yes that's how recently Kidney was ignoring SOB.

He benched in the AIs in '09 :rolleyes:

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

I as just about to ask what Genia has to do with any of this; Australia's scrum got pulverised in that game; not much a bigger SH would have doen for them there; Genia is probably the best SH in the world and even he couldnt get away from out our backrow.

Yep, you've got it.

1. The Aus win was mainly down to the Irish pack.

2. I was replying to the question as to why coaches now seem to have a preference for big, strong scrumhalfs over little ones who get turned over easily.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

Yep, you've got it.

1. The Aus win was mainly down to the Irish pack.

2. I was replying to the question as to why coaches now seem to have a preference for big, strong scrumhalfs over little ones who get turned over easily.

Any scrum half big or small will be turned over if their pack is being mauled; stop going there; its a failed reasoning
Aus Nz SA all ahve small quick SHs as they trust their pack to do the damage and want the ball out fast. Our "conservative" coach would rather have a big SH when its not necessary

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well I'm talking about the the AIs in 2010.

Yes that's how recently Kidney was ignoring SOB.

He benched in the AIs in '09 :rolleyes:

Because of injury. You've consistently made terrible excuses for Kidneys bias thus far.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

He benched in the AIs in '09 :rolleyes:

The point is Kidney still ignored him for the big AIs in 2010, picking Leamy on the bench ahead of him despite SOB being in the middle of the season where he was named European player of the year. On the other hand Murray and POM are dropped straight in with barely any experience. You and the other Kidney sympathisers have not been able to give one concrete reason or straight answer as why these two are getting special treatment. I think you've been watching too many Kidney interviews.

I'm re-employing my selective reading rule.

Anyone who quotes anyone I have on ignore is going on my ignore list for the remainder of the 6N.

Choose your opposition debaters carefully!

As always, note Phatphiggins' words of wisdom in my sig.

jm08

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

When exactly has this been the case? Showing a video of a different scrumhalf being turned over isn't a justification for not picking someone!

I don't collect clips of reddan getting turned over.:D

From memory, in the Magners final, POC just reached over a ruck and took the ball off him. The following game against Munster, schmidt started Boss.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

I don't collect clips of reddan getting turned over.:D

From memory, in the Magners final, POC just reached over a ruck and took the ball off him. The following game against Munster, schmidt started Boss.

Yes an away game; he always starts Boss in the away games; You really have no idea at all do you?

Otacon

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm re-employing my selective reading rule.

Anyone who quotes anyone I have on ignore is going on my ignore list for the remainder of the 6N.

Choose your opposition debaters carefully!

As always, note Phatphiggins' words of wisdom in my sig.

So now you're ignoring the fools who don't ignore other fools. :pac:

leftleg

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm re-employing my selective reading rule.

Anyone who quotes anyone I have on ignore is going on my ignore list for the remainder of the 6N.

Choose your opposition debaters carefully!

As always, note Phatphiggins' words of wisdom in my sig.

please dont ignore me; please... (joke)

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

The point is Kidney still ignored him for the big AIs in 2010, picking Leamy on the bench ahead of him despite SOB being in the middle of the season where he was named European player of the year. On the other hand Murray and POM are dropped straight in with barely any experience. You and the other Kidney sympathisers have not been able to give one concrete reason or straight answer as why these two are getting special treatment. I think you've been watching too many Kidney interviews.

but up Dec 10, sob had played about 2 games in the Magners at 8. heislip got injured, which is when sob started playing at 8 for Leinster on a regular basis and the following 6Ns in '11, SOB started at 8 for Ireland against italy and got motm.

and kidney isnt the one who needs sympathy there are some seriously angry dudes about here who need help.

irishbucsfan

I like how Hayes over Ross has been conveniently glossed over as well.

Bottom line is Kidney's selection policy is extremely biased toward 1/4 teams in this country. I used to dismiss this conspiracy saying Kidney was only favouring players he knows rather than lads from Munster. Now that he is favouring "lads" he hasn't worked with at all in the past over superior "non-lads" that he has, its impossible to ignore.

It's as plain as the grin on Deccies face that Ireland are better with Reddan on the pitch, and will be again this weekend. I'm just looking forward to the day we have a coach who doesn't make blindingly obvious selection mistakes that are eventually proven incorrect when injury prevents him from continuing with them.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

and kidney isnt the one who needs sympathy[/B

He needs to go find a new job because hes rubbish at this one

irishbucsfan

Kassandra Slimy Catfish wrote: »

I'm re-employing my selective reading rule.

Anyone who quotes anyone I have on ignore is going on my ignore list for the remainder of the 6N.

Choose your opposition debaters carefully!

As always, note Phatphiggins' words of wisdom in my sig.

Unfortunately I do not know how to use the ignore function on my phone!

leftleg

[QUOTE=irishbucsfan;77366473]I like how Hayes over Ross has been conveniently glossed over as well.
[/QUOTE]

But but he benched O Brien in 09 :pac:

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

Yes an away game; he always starts Boss in the away games; You really have no idea at all do you?

nope. in the aviva (or is that regarded as an away game now?)

edit: in case of any doubt (ie, you try and move the goal posts again) this is the match i'm referring to.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/8792.php

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

nope. in the aviva (or is that regarded as an away game now?)

Yes Boss started and Reddan was benched; their is absolutely nothing in that at all; Boss added a bit more physicality thats all;Murray could learn a few things from him actually as imo hes a far better "physical" SH

Fireball07

fitz wrote: »

The real question is why are they progressing quicker? It doesn't seem to be based on form/experience or any of the other criteria players from other provinces are measured against. I'm not being bitter, I just don't get it. POM ahead of Henry is the best example. It's ridiculous.

Tbqh POM ahead of Henry is not ridicolous. The form of both players has been excellent in the HC, POM has probably been Munster's best player behind POC and they did win 6 games.

Murray ahead of Reddan, and DOC ahead of Ryan/Tuohy (who although they aren't young, they are younger) are much more ridicolous. I would say POM is deserving of being 4th choice back row.


And people calling for Conway, that doesn't make much sense tbh. Has he even played in the HC this season? I know he's been injured but he's not first choice for Leinster, and I don't think he's that close tbh. Murray may not have played HC but that was because they had been knocked out and he was in-form and first-choice for Munster. Atm, I think TOH, Gilroy and Zebo would be ahead of Conway simply because they have been first-choice recently. Probably Kearney too because he impressed for the Wolfhounds. Conway has lots of talent and will probably jump up the rankings next season when he comes back to full fitness.

leftleg wrote: »

And an injury to Niall Ronan plus disintegration of form of TOL

POM was never behind Ronan. If anything, the injury to Ronan gave Kidney a reason to pick DOC as he became first choice in the 2nd row again when Ryan moved to back row.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I like how Hayes over Ross has been conveniently glossed over as well.

your having a laugh - glossed over

irishbucsfan

leftleg wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

nope. in the aviva (or is that regarded as an away game now?)

What year was this that Boss started a home game against Munster in the aviva?

First ever game in the aviva.

Reddan does not play all home games. Boss does not play all away games.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I like how Hayes over Ross has been conveniently glossed over as well.

your having a laugh - glossed over

Well I didn't include your factually incorrect attempt at revisionist history. For obvious reasons.

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

First ever game in the aviva.

Reddan does not play all home games. Boss does not play all away games.

Yeah i remember it now Boss had a great game; IM a huge Boss fan; this is what he can do if given a gap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly5CDsBEOrU

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

First ever game in the aviva.

Reddan does not play all home games. Boss does not play all away games.

Nope. 2nd LvM game in the aviva. boss started the frst one as well.

your right too about boss not starting all away games and reddan all home games. its genereally down to the opposition . against hard phsycial teams like munster & most french teams, he starts boss.

by the way, he nearly always rotates them at about the 50/55 minute.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

he nearly always rotates them at about the 50/55 minute.

unlike somebody else up untill last week

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

unlike somebody else up untill last week

gwan, admit you got it wrong . you'll feel better when you face up to that.

chris85

leftleg wrote: »

Yeah i remember it now Boss had a great game; IM a huge Boss fan; this is what he can do if given a gap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly5CDsBEOrU

Sorry Boss didnt too a lot there. He played a part in a move. He two other players took the ball after him and worked the gap.

I am a fan of Boss but thats not a prime example.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

gwan, admit you got it wrong . you'll feel better when you face up to that.

fitz

Fireball07 wrote: »

Tbqh POM ahead of Henry is not ridicolous. The form of both players has been excellent in the HC, POM has probably been Munster's best player behind POC and they did win 6 games.

It is ridiculous, given that Henry has played far more at 7 than POM.
We don't need cover at 6, we need it at 7.
If either of Ferris or Heaslip had to come of, we move SOB in to replace them, and bring on the bench back-row at 7.
With Ryan on the bench, we also have extra cover at 6.
Henry makes a far more sensible bench option.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

far more beneficial if you admitted to yourself that you don't know it all than offering unearned congratulations to me ! why congratulate me for you getting it wrong

anyway thanks for the congrats

leftleg

Farrelly alert

Half-backs

Eoin Reddan was pushing hard for the scrum-half slot, but Conor Murray's quality is not in question and, if he gets good ball to work with, the Patrickswell man can dominate Morgan Parra and mix it with the French back-row.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/i-never-see-it-as-just-picking-the-same-team-kidney-3036705.html

Fishooks12

leftleg wrote: »

Farrelly alert

Half-backs

Eoin Reddan was pushing hard for the scrum-half slot, but Conor Murray's quality is not in question and, if he gets good ball to work with, the Patrickswell man can dominate Morgan Parra and mix it with the French back-row.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/i-never-see-it-as-just-picking-the-same-team-kidney-3036705.html

Christ almighty that man gets paid to write about rugby

GETS PAID TO WRITE ABOUT RUGBY


So many things wrong with that sentence that I can't even begin to deconstruct it

"quality not in question" is the most baffling though, and I'm a fan of Murray