SWTOR: Ilum redux redux redux.

Welease

I've just read the 1.1.5 patch notes, and can't believe it but Bioware have managed to come up with the one idea that would actually make open world pvp in Ilum even worse..

"Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones. *UPDATED 2/28*"
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=325047

Assuming they mean the Cutting the Cord etc quests, why would they remove the single reason people actually have to go to Ilum?

Blowfish

Welease wrote: »

I've just read the 1.1.5 patch notes, and can't believe it but Bioware have managed to come up with the one idea that would actually make open world pvp in Ilum even worse..

"Players can now build credit towards the Battle for Ilum daily and weekly missions by playing Warzones. *UPDATED 2/28*"
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=325047

Assuming they mean the Cutting the Cord etc quests, why would they remove the single reason people actually have to go to Ilum?

That doesn't make it worse, it actually makes it much better.

Pre 1.1 with the node swapping, those who were only interested in the daily, came in, flipped nodes in a couple of minutes and left. Those who were interested in actually PvP'ing stayed and organically formed small 4-8 man groups to wander around and battle each other.

As it is now, Ilum is dominated by people who have no interest in actual pvp'ing, they're just there because they have to be to get their daily done or to farm valour efficiently. This leads to them standing in 2 giant zergs facing eachother randomly sniping off outliers or using the odd grapple/charge to take a few people out. Letting those people get their daily through WZ's will mean they'll probably not bother with Ilum and it'll be left for those who actually want to PvP for fun.

Raphael

That's an interesting point, though I know on my server that'll probably amount to no one. Hope they stop changing it soon, or Ilum will be dead dead dead.

Also, splitting this off into its own thread.

Welease

Well we shall have to agree to disagree, and see what happens..

I believe the vast majority of people need a reason to go out into open world pvp.. if the vast majority don't go to Ilum then slowly and surely the numbers will dwindle beyond the point of no return.. Yes, those non zerging solo/duo's/groups will go for a while, but my experience is that they also begin to disappear if suitable fresh "fodder" isn't available, and the lower numbers of people make the zone a ghost town for large parts of the day.

This would likely happen anyway unless there are changes to the structure/terrain of Ilum, and the benefits of fighting there.. but for me, in the absense of those changes it just speeds the exodus. Solo's/Duo's won't last long against groups when zone announcements are being made on their location if they venture near the assault areas etc. And for pvp focussed guild there doesnt appear to be any reason to venture out together (at least previously you could hit and harass the camping zergs).

i hope they took a look at Ilum and decide what they want there, and what will attract people out into open world pvp, without (as you said) the mindless gate camping zergs..

Kirby

The way to have engaging open world pvp is to give people a goal to fight over than benefits their faction. Have say, a large neutral town to scrap over, with say 3 or 4 small objectives nearby like shield generators so that you can't just zerg in a big ball and have to split up.

Tactics come into play and its not just one large group killing another large group in a standoff. It's small teams and thats the most fun.

jeawan

Kirby wrote: »

The way to have engaging open world pvp is to give people a goal to fight over than benefits their faction. Have say, a large neutral town to scrap over, with say 3 or 4 small objectives nearby like shield generators so that you can't just zerg in a big ball and have to split up.

Tactics come into play and its not just one large group killing another large group in a standoff. It's small teams and thats the most fun.

Agreed completely most fun i have had in ilum is in small teams hitting the larger sith groups and killing one or two and legging it , if they give us something to fight for it be much more pvp in the place tbh

Dustaz

Kirby wrote: »

The way to have engaging open world pvp is to give people a goal to fight over than benefits their faction. Have say, a large neutral town to scrap over, with say 3 or 4 small objectives nearby like shield generators so that you can't just zerg in a big ball and have to split up..

Thats just Wintergrasp.


It doesnt encourage world pvp. It's just another timed battleground.

You have to think it through. If the value of the benefits is as high as it needs to be to make it worth fighting over, then it will just be Imp controlled 24/7 on most servers. So they'll change it to a timed thing with some sort of weight to the less represented faction to give republics a chance to actually win. Either that or make the reward for holding it useless. Either way it leads to a ghost zone most of the time.

You cannot encourage world pvp in a game like swtor or wow without changing some fundamental basics of the game. Those changes would drive at least 90% of the player base away unfortunatly.

Welease

Dustaz wrote: »

Thats just Wintergrasp.


It doesnt encourage world pvp. It's just another timed battleground.

You have to think it through. If the value of the benefits is as high as it needs to be to make it worth fighting over, then it will just be Imp controlled 24/7 on most servers. So they'll change it to a timed thing with some sort of weight to the less represented faction to give republics a chance to actually win. Either that or make the reward for holding it useless. Either way it leads to a ghost zone most of the time.

You cannot encourage world pvp in a game like swtor or wow without changing some fundamental basics of the game. Those changes would drive at least 90% of the player base away unfortunatly.

Not necessarily... Although a 2 realm game always makes it a lot more difficult to achieve balance.

I'd like to see something more world-like rather than a small zone with a few outposts running capture the flag etc..

But irrespective of the the size of the zone.. there are numerous ways it could be implemented..

(a few idea of the top of my head.. yes tons of holes in them..)
- the level and amount of NPC guards could increase/decrease based on the attacking/defending sides population.. Once a victory has been achieved (and it should take co-ordination of multiple units not simple zerg one target move onto the next), then the losing realm could see a continual increase in guard levels (incl roaming guards) which require a concerted defence by the winners otherwise the goals will be reclaimed.. It worked very well in DOAC with relics and 20% boosts to the realm Strength or Power depending on the relics held.
- or GM's could run events wherby smaller sides get the benefit of Bioware controlled walkers, NPC's whatever to provide support.. even if it's preset time controlled events its better than nothing..
- PVP points could be used to obtain pvp only abilities.. The more you pvp the more abilities you gain.. but the amount of points you get per kill is determined by the amount of folks you have in the zone.. If you outnumber Rep 5 to 1, then you get 1/5 of the points they get for a kill..
etc etc etc..
- Home City invasions..
- Certain PVE HM raids only being accessible by unlocking pvp objectives (and vice versa)
- Mercenary pvp both (like GW) only available to the smaller side..

There are literally thousands of ways they can look to improve pvp.. if they put some thought into it..