So Dunphy thinks he know's more about football then Trapp

monkey9

aidan24326 wrote: »

Look, we were very VERY lucky to qualify. We got a handy group and still needed a couple of fortunate results to get us there, not least the miracles escape in Moscow.

As the previous poster said no-one expects Trap to have us playing like superstars but a bit more positivity would be nice.

It's his stubborness and rigidity that grates with people I think, the fact that he's so resistant to change. If we go 4-4-2 againat Spain for example we'll be crucified, yet all the evidence suggests that Trap won't alter his beloved system for anyone or anything. He doesn't believe the Irish players can actually play so he asks them to run like monkeys instead, but we do have players that can play if they're let.

i.e Paris, the night of le Cheat!!

EdenHazard

Yano when people say 'look what trapattoni achieved etc. whoever thinks they no more, it doesnt really make sense. Dunphy could have much greater knowledge of the game than Trap(He might but doesnt say anything for Dunphys knowledge) but not have been able to implement it in a playing or management basis because of his personality. Just because someone happened to be good at something doesn't make them an expert.
Someone like Vilas Boas or Mourinho I would say are far more knowledgable than the likes of Frank Rijkaard or Pep Guardiola because it's only the fact they were footballes they got the chance to become managers.

monkey9

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yano when people say 'look what trapattoni achieved etc. whoever thinks they no more, it doesnt really make sense. Dunphy could have much greater knowledge of the game than Trap(He might but doesnt say anything for Dunphys knowledge) but not have been able to implement it in a playing or management basis because of his personality. Just because someone happened to be good at something doesn't make them an expert.
Someone like Vilas Boas or Mourinho I would say are far more knowledgable than the likes of Frank Rijkaard or Pep Guardiola because it's only the fact they were footballes they got the chance to become managers.

The kindest thing to say about this post is, you might want to word it differently!

CongoPowers

No one will say they don't want the team to use the ball more constructively, but trying to keep the ball comes with the risk of losing it. Losing the team's shape. System at the moment is old fashioned, horrible to watch, it's just a basic idea of sticking to a rigid formation, getting lads behind the ball, but against far better sides it gives Ireland a better chance of staying competitive.

Everyone would love to see Ireland play nice football, but I can't even imagine these lads doing it on a consistent basis. I don't know, maybe against shit teams in qualifiers, but not against good sides who would put you under pressure. But even then, I can understand why Trapattoni doesn't want players to open up in some games before hiding against others, doesn't help.

It's obvious things won't change while he's here, so better to keep that in mind when thinking who you'd like to see in the final squad.

Seaneh

The thing about Trap in the last 15 years is this.

He has been universally hated by the fans of every club he has managed since the early ninties.

He has played the same, abysmal system and restrained players since the 70's.

He knows nothing on modern coaching techniques, he can't adapt, his brand of football is stone age.

Simply put, he is a Dinosaur.

As has been said, several times, Ireland when they are a Goal behind play good football, keep the ball, press teams all over the pitch and look dangerous.

Whe we are 1 ahead or level we lose the ball, the midfield are anonymous, our strikers get no service and we play like ****ing Andora, it's horrible to watch and there is no excause in the ****ing world for a team with most of the 1st 11 playing in the Premier League, one in Russia (where he is one of the best players in the League) one in the Championship to play such bad, unimaginative football.


Mick McCharty managed to make an Ireland team with a midfield two of Mark Kinsella and Matt Holland, players about on par with Whelan and Andrews, the engine room of a team that faught hard, played positive football and worried the opposition.

Trap has the current two playing a game where all the do is hoof it long and lose it 90-% of the time.


I've said it before and I'll say it again.


He's a chancer and his brand of football belong with his notable achievements as manager. In the Past.

Samich

niallo27 wrote: »

To be the second only manager to get us to a euro championship with a very adverage side is a fairly special achievement.

Well considering the ****tty teams in our group, russia, like come on! And the wages the dude is on, he's doing nothing special.

monkey9

Samich wrote: »

Well considering the ****tty teams in our group, russia, like come on! And the wages the dude is on, he's doing nothing special.

For half that wage, John Aldridge could have made a very reasonable attempt. Ahead of Slovakia, playing Estonia??

I genuinely don't think Trap has been the Messiah!!

monkey9

Seaneh wrote: »

The thing about Trap in the last 15 years is this.

He has been universally hated by the fans of every club he has managed since the early ninties.

He has played the same, abysmal system and restrained players since the 70's.

He knows nothing on modern coaching techniques, he can't adapt, his brand of football is stone age.

Simply put, he is a Dinosaur.

As has been said, several times, Ireland when they are a Goal behind play good football, keep the ball, press teams all over the pitch and look dangerous.

Whe we are 1 ahead or level we lose the ball, the midfield are anonymous, our strikers get no service and we play like ****ing Andora, it's horrible to watch and there is no excause in the ****ing world for a team with most of the 1st 11 playing in the Premier League, one in Russia (where he is one of the best players in the League) one in the Championship to play such bad, unimaginative football.


Mick McCharty managed to make an Ireland team with a midfield two of Mark Kinsella and Matt Holland, players about on par with Whelan and Andrews, the engine room of a team that faught hard, played positive football and worried the opposition.

Trap has the current two playing a game where all the do is hoof it long and lose it 90-% of the time.


I've said it before and I'll say it again.


He's a chancer and his brand of football belong with his notable achievements as manager. In the Past.

This, just this!! I concur with this!

daddydick

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Since when has "we" become "I"?



You're wrong

kryogen

Seaneh, by leaving roy keane out of your post when talking about mcarthy and what he did with the team cheapens your point....

duff harte both keanes mcateer etc all played a very big part in ireland qualifying....

Mcarthy allowed them to play with more freedom of course, but the quality on the squad was better with good experience

Warper

What was all the furore about Andy Reid a while back? Dunphy says stuff that he knows will be in the press, thats why he does it. He is entertaining on TV but his print-media is poor stuff. It boils down to this - Trap got us to our second ever European Champs and was a hair-breath away from getting to SA, so give the guy a break. We are there and we should get behind the guy for getting us there with admittedly an average enough squad.

starviewadams

He's gotten us to our first European Championships since 1988,he got us to within a gee hair of going to the 2010 World Cup and yet people still criticise him and agree with a pariah like Eamon Dunphy?ridiculous stuff tbh,do people honestly think we'd be going to Poland in June if we'd appointed Terry Venables or Paul Jewell instead of him four years ago?

Do people honestly think that whoever Trap's replacement will be when he eventually leaves us will be as good as him?unless we manage to convince Jose Mourinho to work for the eejits in Abbotstown then that is extremely unlikely.Will be funny to hear the clamouring for Trap from all his current naysayers when we go back to getting stuffed by the likes of San Marino when he's gone.

And also,James McLean has played well in a handful of games for Sunderland and if he manages to keep up his form and not turn into another Sean Thornton then I'm sure Trap will use him in our next qualifying campaign in September,the same goes for James McCarthy and any other flavour of the month that the media create between now and then.

Revolution9

Sometimes I get irritated with Trap, but then I think of the alternatives and the Staunton era and shudder.

hatz7

El Trap has now guided our band of Irish brothers to a twelve game unbeaten run, which I believe is really really good.

There is alot of media abuse hurled in Gio's direction, but **** that. Did I mention that Ireland are on a twelve game unbeaten run?

We are in the "group of destiny", Spain, Italy and those crafty Croats, it'll be tough alright, but no better buchaill than Gio to lead us there.

A credible 1-1 draw with the Czech Republic to report on.End of report.

"In Trap We Trust",
can the Irish Republic win the Euro 2012?

"Is fedir linn"

Corholio

hatz7 wrote: »

El Trap has now guided our band of Irish brothers to a twelve game unbeaten run, which I believe is really really good.

There is alot of media abuse hurled in Gio's direction, but **** that. Did I mention that Ireland are on a twelve game unbeaten run?

We are in the "group of destiny", Spain, Italy and those crafty Croats, it'll be tough alright, but no better buchaill than Gio to lead us there.

A credible 1-1 draw with the Czech Republic to report on.End of report.

"In Trap We Trust",
can the Irish Republic win the Euro 2012?

"Is fedir linn"

Are you doing a voiceover for a documentary or something? :pac:

CongoPowers

starviewadams wrote: »

He's gotten us to our first European Championships since 1988,he got us to within a gee hair of going to the 2010 World Cup and yet people still criticise him and agree with a pariah like Eamon Dunphy?ridiculous stuff tbh,do people honestly think we'd be going to Poland in June if we'd appointed Terry Venables or Paul Jewell instead of him four years ago?

Do people honestly think that whoever Trap's replacement will be when he eventually leaves us will be as good as him?unless we manage to convince Jose Mourinho to work for the eejits in Abbotstown then that is extremely unlikely.Will be funny to hear the clamouring for Trap from all his current naysayers when we go back to getting stuffed by the likes of San Marino when he's gone.

Agree with the first part, but don't think someone like Mourinho would do better than Trapattoni. Unless he could buy better players lol.

FlawedGenius

niallo27 wrote: »

To be the second only manager to get us to a euro championship with a very adverage side is a fairly special achievement.

We were blessed we drew Estonia. Any of the other 3 would of been very tough, might of beaten Montenegro. We were lucky. Trap has had lucky draws. Next campaign we have Sweden and Germany to deal with. We will see how great a manager he is then. Theres no excuse for bringing on Green(a reserve player for Derby) over Mclean, whos been the best Irish player in the prem lately.

It took an injury to get Kilbane out remember. Only for he replaced Ward for Kilbane, who was 2nd rate in Traps eyes before the injury, Kilbane would still be playing for Ireland today. Traps stuck with him as he realises hes a far better player since hes had to try a different LB. He doesnt take chances Trap unless he has to. I think the same would happen if Andrews or Whelan and Green was injured and he was forced to put in Mcarthy or Hoolahan. After they come back from injury they would struggle to get back into the team as Id guarantee hed see an improvement in midfield.

Trap is stubborn and doesnt like change or experimenting.
I think hes loyal to the players that have served him last 2 years and if we a 20 year old Irish Messi came along he wouldnt get into this team.:rolleyes::mad:

FlawedGenius

cournioni wrote: »

This is coming from the same man that had been spouting sh1te about Andy Reid for a couple of years, where is he now exactly?

As other people have pointed out on here, Dunphy is nothing but a troll trying to boost sales of his paper with by spewing sensationalist rubbish on a daily basis. Anybody can be a Dunphy, all you have to do is go down to your local and find the most opinionated, obnoxious and irritating bollox with little or no knowledge of football and you've got your man.

Another reason to avoid RTE and tabloid newspapers.

Infairness, hes shut up about him about a year and a half.

cournioni

noodler wrote: »

The **** does that matter?

He still should have been selected in the squad when he was playing as one of Sunderland's best players.

Key word, was. Trappatoni has proven that you need stability in the national team in order to have success. You need players that can perform consistently for the national team and like it or not, the players he has picked have done that job for him. These players have grown together and are now one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. All you have to do is look at Ireland's form, it is up there with the best.

Reid was a form player at the time, I accept that, but he went from being a Premier League player to a Championship player very fast.

JayMul

Yeh cause Trap seems right about now. Reid couldn't even get into the Blackpool squad.

kfallon

starviewadams wrote: »

Will be funny to hear the clamouring for Trap from all his current naysayers when we go back to getting stuffed by the likes of San Marino when he's gone.

When were we stuffed by San Marino?

death1234567

We have some outstanding players

This is Dunphy's problem. He thinks we have good players when in reality we don't. Our best players are now all past their best (Keane, Duff, Given, Dunne) and the rest are nothing special. Mclean/McCarthy aren't the second coming of Roy Keane or Paul McGrath. They might be slightly better than what we have but not much. There's no great pool of talent or some brilliant tactic that Trap can employ to make us anything more than a mediocre international side. We just don't have the players and if we are qualifying to a championship then that's better than we can expect.

lempsipmax

The difficulty I have with Dunphy's criticism (apart from the fact that he speaks about James McClean like he is Messi) is as follows.

He seems to take the qualification for the Euros completely for granted and focuses instead on his desire for more ambitious, attractive, attacking football.
It's as if Trap's achievement of getting us there is proof that it was easy to get there and that we should be doing it with style and aplomb.

He has made a post-football career of being a loud-mouthed hurler on the ditch. Sure Trap like any manager has strengths/traits that are advantageous in some situations (against the better teams) and seem slightly counter-productive against weaker teams, but the level of 'impassioned' criticism from Dunphy in this instance makes him deserving of a time-out from the media.

rossie1977

Pro. F wrote: »

The selection of players we have is not very average it is decent.

average group of journeymen at best

death1234567

rossie1977 wrote: »

average group of journeymen at best

+1. Any irish players playing regularly (or at all) for any of the top 7 sides in the premiership?

LuckyLloyd

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Dunphy is right for once. I can't wait to see the back of Trap. Stumbled our way through qualification and it's declared an act of genius.

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

Im with yeh on that one, I know hes only the second manager to get us to the Euros, but we have good quality players in the sqaud who are capable of playing good football weve seenthem do so under Trap but its all to rare. Negative football will kill the game we can play positive and still qualify.

Look at the amount of interest in internaional Ireland games these days, most people dont care I know come the Euros it will be different but friendlies and even qualifiers people just want them over to get back to club football because Ireland matchs have become so incedibly boring and tedious to watch.

You people don't deserve a major championship.

noodler

cournioni wrote: »

Key word, was. Trappatoni has proven that you need stability in the national team in order to have success. You need players that can perform consistently for the national team and like it or not, the players he has picked have done that job for him. These players have grown together and are now one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. All you have to do is look at Ireland's form, it is up there with the best.

Reid was a form player at the time, I accept that, but he went from being a Premier League player to a Championship player very fast.

Stability? We are talking about his inclusion in the squad, not changing the system of starting 11 for him.

I wouldn't say our form is up there with best in Europe. Our win percentage in competitive games is still reasonably low.

Reid's fall from grace may be replicated by Doyle, or Long or McClean or Paul Green in the next 3 years but it doesn't mean Trap shouldn't have selected them for the squad today...(apart form maybe Green).

I won't give another post on Andy Reid but his inclusion in the squad wasn't based on footballing reasons.

noodler

Also, whilst Trap's achievements should be praised and were rightly rewarded with another contract, the players we have at our disposal are not average.

In fact the players we have (sometimes made weaker by the players he chooses) should be able to play better football without any serious impact on the defensive improvements he has made to the side.

There were no standout results in this campaign, apart maybe from the Russian draw(or the Armenia win away, we did not have to beat any top teams to qualify.

I know that sounds incredibly harsh and I would qualify that by saying we only lost one game in 12 but all our wins were very much expected before this campaign started (Macedonia, Estonia, Armenia, Andorra).

Now its not our fault/problem that Estonia and Armenia had excellent campaigns themselves but I think we all have our doubts that we would have qualfied if any other name than Estonia had come out of the hat in the draw.

StephenHendry

trap deserves praise for getting us to the euros. he has got us very well
organised , hard to beat etc. which has helped no doubt. he places importance on friendlies in terms of improving our ranking, which helps when draws are being made for qualifying tournaments.

he has to be criticised as well in terms of not picking certain players, givin them a chance even if they dont' fit in to his system , the likes of wes holohan being an example. why did he change his mind suddenly about james mccleans inclusion, was it one of the backrook staff, a couple of the senior players?

he handled the mccarthy situation badly , ok james mccarthy now has his cap finally, can play for us but for a while it looked like we might lose him to scotland. the stephen ireland situation didnt put trap in any good light either , so many confused, mixed messages about the interview they had.

trap could have given a run out to pilkington at norwich, mason who's doing well for cardiff and stokes should have been given a chance in the recent friendly as well

rossie1977

noodler wrote: »

the players we have at our disposal are not average.

yes they are, the ones that aren't (keane, duff, dunne etc) are all well past their prime and this is their last dance, which of our current players would get close to the england, dutch, german or spanish squads?? and yet we are unbeaten against italy since trap took over, remarkable achievement

compared to the players charlton had at his disposal back in the day this is an incredibly average squad of players

we did not have to beat any top teams to qualify.

on that basis neither did italy, france, germany, greece, england as there was no top teams in their groups to beat.

but I think we all have our doubts that we would have qualfied if any other name than Estonia had come out of the hat in the draw.

the other teams ireland could have got were turkey, bosnia or montenegro, ireland would have been hot favourites to progress against everyone except turkey

noodler

rossie1977 wrote: »

yes they are, the ones that aren't (keane, duff, dunne etc) are all well past their prime and this is their last dance, which of our current players would get close to the england, dutch, german or spanish squads?? and yet we are unbeaten against italy since trap took over, remarkable achievement

Jesus Christ, how about we compare our players to the likes of Slovakia, Russia, Montenagro and Bulgaria (all teams we failed to beat) rather than the world ****ing champions?

rossie1977 wrote: »

on that basis neither did italy, france, germany, greece, england as there was no top teams in their groups to beat.

I think that is poor reasoning.

My OP was simply confirming that Trap has not managed many groundbreaking results. I am not condemning him for it but it can't be disputed.

rossie1977 wrote: »

the other teams ireland could have got were turkey, bosnia or montenegro, ireland would have been hot favourites to progress against everyone except turkey

Are serious?

We would have been favourites against Bosnia?

Hot favourites?

ColeTrain

rossie1977 wrote: »

yes they are, the ones that aren't (keane, duff, dunne etc) are all well past their prime and this is their last dance, which of our current players would get close to the england, dutch, german or spanish squads?? and yet we are unbeaten against italy since trap took over, remarkable achievement

compared to the players charlton had at his disposal back in the day this is an incredibly average squad of players



on that basis neither did italy, france, germany, greece, england as there was no top teams in their groups to beat.



the other teams ireland could have got were turkey, bosnia or montenegro, ireland would have been hot favourites to progress against everyone except turkey

First Italy game we were playing against 10 men for most of the game and just about managed a point.

Also only took a point off them at home. The other game was a friendly.

The squad isn't as average as you might believe. There are some good young players mixed with players of experience. There is enough in that squad to have a real go at qualifying for tournaments.

ronsgonawin

Some people on the Irish forum are laughable, Between people I talk to in the pubs, friends and family not one person has said trap is doing a good job. Maybe at the start he was but his decision making is poor, and keeps getting worse and worse.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/03/02/2941231/giovanni-trapattoni-says-james-mcclean-james-mccarthy-are

How this fella is in charge now and the foreseeable is a complete joke :mad::mad:

djPSB

Dunphy is a clown.

All you have to do is compare his managerial achievments to Trappatonis and you won't be too long finding out who knows more about management, team selection and football in general.

djPSB

ColeTrain wrote: »

First Italy game we were playing against 10 men for most of the game and just about managed a point.

Also only took a point off them at home. The other game was a friendly.

The squad isn't as average as you might believe. There are some good young players mixed with players of experience. There is enough in that squad to have a real go at qualifying for tournaments.

We did qualify??

djPSB

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Some people on the Irish forum are laughable, Between people I talk to in the pubs, friends and family not one person has said trap is doing a good job. Maybe at the start he was but his decision making is poor, and keeps getting worse and worse.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/03/02/2941231/giovanni-trapattoni-says-james-mcclean-james-mccarthy-are

How this fella is in charge now and the foreseeable is a complete joke :mad::mad:

No you are wrong.

Look at his record. We are unbeaten in twelve games.

kfallon

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Some people on the Irish forum are laughable, Between people I talk to in the pubs, friends and family not one person has said trap is doing a good job. Maybe at the start he was but his decision making is poor, and keeps getting worse and worse.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/03/02/2941231/giovanni-trapattoni-says-james-mcclean-james-mccarthy-are

How this fella is in charge now and the foreseeable is a complete joke :mad::mad:

It's ok tho, we have Paul Green to fall back on :rolleyes:

If you're good enough you are old enough, laughable excuse tbh!

PHB

If Dunphy was a poster on this forum, he'd be perma banned ages ago.

ColeTrain

djPSB wrote: »

We did qualify??

Are you serious?!

I was making the point that qualifying for a tournament isn't a miracle given the players at his disposal.

ronsgonawin

djPSB wrote: »

No you are wrong.

Look at his record. We are unbeaten in twelve games.

Nice argument!!

Too many draws for me against average teams.

super_furry

Why is anyone surprised by this? Eamonn Dunphy's entire career was founded on him slagging off an Ireland manager in Jack Charlton. There hasn't been one single Ireland manager in the last 20 years that Dunphy hasn't gone after. He knows it will get him the headlines, keep him in the public eye and build on his persona.

StickyMcGinty

super_furry wrote: »

Why is anyone surprised by this? Eamonn Dunphy's entire career was founded on him slagging off an Ireland manager in Jack Charlton. There hasn't been one single Ireland manager in the last 20 years that Dunphy hasn't gone after. He knows it will get him the headlines, keep him in the public eye and build on his persona.

http://www.balls.ie/2012/03/01/the-more-things-change-the-more-dunphy-stays-the-same/

He's Ireland's own devil's advocate. He know's he's full of bóllox

darkman2

Look on the bright side. At least if Ireland lose games in Euro 2012 we are guaranteed at least entertainment from Dunphy.;)

briany

The game on Wednesday was absolutely par for the course as far as the Trap era goes. We know this is the way the team is going to play but to be fair, besides that one horrible bit of defending it's unlikely the Czechs could have gotten another goal so if that can be ironed out, that's something, though I in no way expect Ireland's defense to withstand the onslaught it is likely to face this Summer.

So we know the way Trap wants the team to play and you can either get behind that or not. I choose to get behind it at this point because I have little choice and would like to try and enjoy watching Ireland's campaign, probably through partially separated fingers. What is terrifying is the prospect of Ireland being 1-0 down to Spain and Trap's tactical masterstroke is to put on Paul Green. How does such a conversation even go on the sideline between Trap and no.2? ("Green? Yes........Green....") I have to think that whatever else is going on in Trapattoni's head, he is a competitive man, he wants to take the team far, but I just won't be able to understand it if something like that goes down. The groan from the country would audible in Polkraine.

I would never join the Trap out brigade though because I appreciate the good things he has done for the team also and I don't know what alternatives might be better. I'm also not convinced that all the players people want in the team would necessarily make the team play any better as a unit. Staunton and Kerr had arguably better players at their disposal but both failed in meeting the expectations that were placed on them so evidently there is a good good deal of importance in having a team that gels, that has a spirit about it and that respects the manager at the helm. Qualities that were apparently missing in the Staunton/Kerr camps according to reports in and around the time of their respective dismissals.

As for Dunphy, he's just being Dunphy and for all the hate he gets now, we'll miss him when all we have to look forward to for RTE soccer coverage is a panel of Peter Collins, Kenny Cunningham and maybe if he chooses to grace us with his presence, Ronnie Whelan.

Bodhisopha

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You people don't deserve a major championship.

You're right, we don't. We will stink the tournament out of it, crash out in the group stages and we'll be left wondering what it was all about.

We will be the worst team to watch in this tournament, i'm near certain of that.

tonycascarino

Apart from some people disliking Dunphy, what was actually wrong with what he said? He has some valid points. Some people really need to get their heads out of their asses in relation to Trapattoni, he is not untouchable.

darced

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