Irish women earn 17% less than Irish men

smash

A study suggests that women in Ireland earn on average 17% less than men and only half of all working women earn more than €50,000 a year.

Women in Ireland earn 17% less than men and only half of all working women earn more than €50,000 a year.

An European Commission study suggests that Irish women in their 20s earn about 90% of what their male colleagues do.

The study suggests that Irish women in the 35-44 age group only earn 71.5% and this falls even further for women in their 50s and 60s.

The commission study says that there are a number of reasons for this gender pay gap, including discrimination against women, undervaluing of women's skills and the low number of women in senior and leadership positions.

It also notes that women are the primary care givers in Irish society and this takes away from their ability to earn as much as men.

The survey found that women in Ireland are more likely than men to work in low paid and precarious work.

The National Women's Council has said it is vital that the Government acts to improve the position of women in society and in the workplace.

National Women's Council Chief Executive Orla O'Connor said: "The gap between women's and men's earning needs to be reduced.

"As the Government persists with its austerity measures, it is vital that actions to improve the position of women in our society are not sidelined."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/gender.html

Lets break this down here... Nowhere in the article does it say that the survey looked at people of comparable roles. And in fact it even states "women in Ireland are more likely than men to work in low paid and precarious work", which is a choice!

Then there's "including discrimination against women, undervaluing of women's skills and the low number of women in senior and leadership positions" which really annoys be because I think it's pure bs. People in higher positions get there because of their merits, not gender.

Thoughts?

lastlaugh

Proper order if you ask me.

smash

lastlaugh wrote: »

Proper order if you ask me.

Nice one... This thread should last a while with that kind of input :rolleyes:

summerskin

Women take upto a year off to have babies, usually more than once. In the company i manage women have a drastically higher rate of sickness absence than the men, though all are paid equally.


But the women in Spar make better sandwiches than the lad who works there. All swings and roundabouts.

racso1975

Would be interesting to see if the pay difference still existed in comparable jobs if men were allowed parental leave of more then 3 days!!!!!!!

smash

summerskin wrote: »

Women take upto a year off to have babies, usually more than once.

I've never seen someone take a year off.

danniemcq

They always say a womans work is never done.

how can they expect to be paid the same if they never finish anything.

to busy chatting about shoes if you ask me

danniemcq

smash wrote: »

I've never seen someone take a year off.

it happens, i also noticed a lot of teachers seem to give birth in Sepember/October. by the time the maternity is up its the summer and they are on holidays again

Professey Chin

smash wrote: »

I've never seen someone take a year off.

Ive seen it 3 times in the last 4/5 years with my team.

Scanlas The 2nd

I think you'd find more of a correlation with testosterone levels and pay than gender and pay. While I'd assume there is possibly gender discriminatiOn I'd say the majority of the disparity is down to things like men being more likely to threaten to quit if they don't get a pay rise. Also I think women on average have a greater need to be liked which would reduce their earnings potential.

racso1975

danniemcq wrote: »

it happens, i also noticed a lot of teachers seem to give birth in Sepember/October. by the time the maternity is up its the summer and they are on holidays again

Yeah but infairness they are not getting paid for 16 weeks of that time and I would imagine that they are also using a up their annual leave to given that maternity leave is only 24 weeks. I use the word only in the context of taking a year off

jester77

So half the women in Ireland earn over €50k....

... books flight, packs bag ...

token101

This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.
This is going to be a productive debate.

summerskin

racso1975 wrote: »

Yeah but infairness they are not getting paid for 16 weeks of that time and I would imagine that they are also using a up their annual leave to given that maternity leave is only 24 weeks. I use the word only in the context of taking a year off

We pay them for 48 weeks, plus they get 24 days annual leave to take as extra if they choose.

We are way too generous with maternity pay, annoys the crap out of me to see female staff getting full salary while off work for what is essentially a lifestyle choice. (and yes, i do have a wife and kids myself).

newport2

How come all the companies struggling to keep costs down are not recruiting women by the bucketload? Surely there'd be far fewer women on the dole if they were that much cheaper to employ?

danniemcq

newport2 wrote: »

How come all the companies struggling to keep costs down are not recruiting women by the bucketload? Surely there'd be far fewer women on the dole if they were that much cheaper to employ?

see comments above,

i have seen people get a job and while in training they become preggers. so company is stuck with them, has to pay maternity leave and then train them all up again if they come back as some don't.

it seems to happen way more than the average too. its like they planned it

Dudess

summerskin wrote: »

annoys the crap out of me to see female staff getting full salary while off work for what is essentially a lifestyle choice. (and yes, i do have a wife and kids myself).

I'd say that about going travelling, but having kids?

Nothingbetter2d

where i work is predominently women... right now there is 3 on maternity leave and 3 more pregnant. 2 of which will be on leave next month.

biko

Even in Scandinavia, often heralded as the epitome of progressiveness and feminism women's wages are lower than men's.

The pay gap varies across the EU and throws up some surprising results. Sweden, renowned for its family-friendly policies, has a pay gap just shy of the EU average (17.1%) because many Swedish women work part-time. By contrast, Italy, a country associated with a more traditional stance on the family, has one of the narrowest pay gaps in the Union, 4.9%, which probably results from the relatively low number of unskilled women in the workforce.

So Westerberg, as deputy prime minister, started phasing in some heavy-handed policies in 1995.
Now two months of parental leave is reserved exclusively for men. This has substantially increased the number of fathers taking time off work, and that has had an impact on wages.

A study published by the Swedish Institute of Labor Market Policy Evaluation in March showed, for instance, that a mother’s future earnings increase on average 7 percent for every month the father takes leave.

http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/imported/closing-the-pay-gap/69455.aspx

c_man

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Ive seen it 3 times in the last 4/5 years with my team.

Have two gone from my team at the mo for a year each at least.

smash

A lot of companies only pay statutory these days for maternity leave though.

biko wrote: »

Even in Scandinavia, often heralded as the epitome of progressiveness and feminism women's wages are lower than men's.

But again, those articles give reasons for the gap:

"because many Swedish women work part-time"
"results from the relatively low number of unskilled women in the workforce."

so it's not a gender related pay gap. It's a choice. Up-skill or work full time!

Tigger

Can so
Done clarify the " only half of women earn 50k" bit cos its not in the PDF in the eu PDF

Sounds wrong

danniemcq

could you use the argument that during the x amount of months that a woman is off and a guy in the same job in the same company continues to work.

could the guy in that x months work extra, side projects etc give him an extra yearly wage raise?

so despite them both being the same qualifications and doing the same role the guy would be on a higher wage.

what should be done is a study where they only look at single men and women in the same position, see how that looks then

grindle

Dudess wrote: »

I'd say that about going travelling, but having kids?

What confuses you about that? It may seem to be the ultimate choice to those who want it, and travelling is just some pithy experience, but work is work. The business can't and shouldn't care why you're missing for a year, only that you are missing.
Got to agree with whoever mentioned sickness rates as well. I was looking at the 'sickness sheets' a few days ago, and the (three) girls take an average of three-five days a year, while none of the (three) guys have been sick in the last year-and-a-half.
Headline is pointless horseshït.
May as well say "Man who travels in gap year earns less in that year than men who don't!"

Really? No way!

pickarooney

These articles, studies and discussions are pointless as everyone can read into the vague statistics exactly what they want to get out of them. The figures are essentially meaningless given the hundreds of factors which are never considered.

opinion guy

summerskin wrote: »

Women take upto a year off to have babies, usually more than once. In the company i manage women have a drastically higher rate of sickness absence than the men, though all are paid equally.


But the women in Spar make better sandwiches than the lad who works there. All swings and roundabouts.

summerskin wrote: »

We pay them for 48 weeks, plus they get 24 days annual leave to take as extra if they choose.

We are way too generous with maternity pay, annoys the crap out of me to see female staff getting full salary while off work for what is essentially a lifestyle choice. (and yes, i do have a wife and kids myself).

Rubbish. We are not way too generous with maternity leave - we are way too sexist.

The reason women leave for all this time is because the law forces them to take the time off and doesn't allow men more than a few days. This, I believe is also a large part of why women earn less.

We need to update our archaic parental leave laws to give women the right to continue working should they want to, and men the option to be stay at home dads should they want to. Like they have in Norway. IT should be up to parents to make their own decisions who minds the child - not codified in law according to some neanderthal concept of parenthood

krudler

smash wrote: »

I've never seen someone take a year off.

My office is around 85% women give or take 9-12 months is fairly standard round here

jaja321

opinion guy wrote: »

Rubbish. We are not way too generous with maternity leave - we are way too sexist.

The reason women leave for all this time is because the law forces them to take the time off and doesn't allow men more than a few days. This, I believe is also a large part of why women earn less.

We need to update our archaic parental leave laws to give women the right to continue working should they want to, and men the option to be stay at home dads should they want to. Like they have in Norway. IT should be up to parents to make their own decisions who minds the child - not codified in law according to some neanderthal concept of parenthood

Absolutely. And its the reason women can be discriminated against in the hiring process.. 'she's around that age where she might have kids and go on maternity leave.. better not hire her', therefore making it more difficult for women to climb the ladder. Paid parental leave whereby parents make the decision on who raises their children ftw! :-)

summerskin

jaja321 wrote: »

Absolutely. And its the reason women can be discriminated against in the hiring process.. 'she's around that age where she might have kids and go on maternity leave.. better not hire her', therefore making it more difficult for women to climb the ladder. Paid parental leave whereby parents make the decision on who raises their children ftw! :-)

Of course it will be more difficult for a woman to climb the ladder. If she works for a company for 5 years but takes 2 years off for maternity, she should have less chance of promotion than a man of equal ability who has worked for the whole 5 years.

And you're right, parents having the choice of who stays home is the only answer to this. But in all honesty, how many mothers would choose to go back to work for the few months after birth? None that I have met or employed anyway.

Ben D Bus

only half of all working women earn more than €50,000 a year

I thought average imcome was around 35K

jaja321

summerskin wrote: »

Of course it will be more difficult for a woman to climb the ladder. If she works for a company for 5 years but takes 2 years off for maternity, she should have less chance of promotion than a man of equal ability who has worked for the whole 5 years.

And you're right, parents having the choice of who stays home is the only answer to this. But in all honesty, how many mothers would choose to go back to work for the few months after birth? None that I have met or employed anyway.

I would. If I had the chance to split parental leave with my partner then I would do it. My career is important to me as is having children. Both equally important. I'd like to have the same opportunity that men have to pursue a satisfying career and have a family. Plus, it would give male partners the chance to spend time with their kids when their young, also important imo.

44leto

A study suggests that women in Ireland earn on average 17% less than men and only half of all working women earn more than €50,000 a year.

Women in Ireland earn 17% less than men and only half of all working women earn more than €50,000 a year.

An European Commission study suggests that Irish women in their 20s earn about 90% of what their male colleagues do.

The study suggests that Irish women in the 35-44 age group only earn 71.5% and this falls even further for women in their 50s and 60s.

The commission study says that there are a number of reasons for this gender pay gap, including discrimination against women, undervaluing of women's skills and the low number of women in senior and leadership positions.

It also notes that women are the primary care givers in Irish society and this takes away from their ability to earn as much as men.

The survey found that women in Ireland are more likely than men to work in low paid and precarious work.

The National Women's Council has said it is vital that the Government acts to improve the position of women in society and in the workplace.

National Women's Council Chief Executive Orla O'Connor said: "The gap between women's and men's earning needs to be reduced.

"As the Government persists with its austerity measures, it is vital that actions to improve the position of women in our society are not sidelined."

The stats are bollox in that they are incomplete, its classic correlation making for causation. On average women do earn less then men in the WORKFORCE, but why. Is the woman sitting across from you in your office doing the same job earning less, I sincerely doubt that as that is disgusting and very illegal. So I ask which sex leaves the workforce earliest and not get the pay rides and promotions in time. On average that would be women, so naturally overall and on average they receive less income.

I know women do face discrimination in the workforce. I will be dangerously honest here and brace myself for a backlash. If I was an employer I would do my damnest not to hire women, not because I believe them to be less capable, they clearly are not, but because I see them as more problematic in the long term. At some stage they may get pregnant and have that time off and may give up work, so all my investment in that person would be wasted.

To be frank that attitude is absolutely wrong but I know it exists. So society and the law needs to protect women from it.

irelandrover

jaja321 wrote: »

I would. If I had the chance to split parental leave with my partner then I would do it. My career is important to me as is having children. Both equally important. I'd like to have the same opportunity that men have to pursue a satisfying career and have a family. Plus, it would give male partners the chance to spend time with their kids when their young, also important imo.

Is there a minimum amount of time that women have to take off after giving birth. Is there something in law stating that you cannot work for 3 months after the birth?

Stiffler2

I think men get paid more because men have bigger muscles and can lift heavier objects.

constitutionus

if you work less you get paid less.

jesus and someone got paid to figure this out ?

jaja321

irelandrover wrote: »

Is there a minimum amount of time that women have to take off after giving birth. Is there something in law stating that you cannot work for 3 months after the birth?

I think Irish law states that you must take at least 2 weeks before the end of the week of the baby’s expected birth and at least 4 weeks after. The main point is though that it should be about choice and paid parental leave would offer this choice.. to both women and men.

dark crystal

summerskin wrote: »

Of course it will be more difficult for a woman to climb the ladder. If she works for a company for 5 years but takes 2 years off for maternity, she should have less chance of promotion than a man of equal ability who has worked for the whole 5 years.

So the men who actually had a 50% stake in making the baby should automatically get a promotion over the women who gave birth to the babies they both created

I understand having children may cause some inconvenience to an employer, but just because a woman happens to have the biological components needed to have a baby, doesn't mean they are any less entitled to promotion than the man who helped create that baby. Promotion should be based on performance and skill, not gender.

It's a fact of life that employees of both genders will continue to have families, but it's unfair to hold the view that only the women should be punished for doing so.

irelandrover

dark crystal wrote: »

So the men who actually had a 50% stake in making the baby should automatically get a promotion over the women who gave birth to the babies they both created

I understand having children may cause some inconvenience to an employer, but just because a woman happens to have the biological components needed to have a baby, doesn't mean they are any less entitled to promotion than the man who helped create that baby. Promotion should be based on performance and skill, not gender.

It's a fact of life that all employees will continue to have families, but it's unfair to hold the view that only the women should be punished for doing so.

Yes it does, if both people are equally good and one has worked the previous 2 years and another only worked 18 months out of the two years, who should get the promotion. It makes absolutely no differenece to the company why that person missed 6 months.

Stiffler2

dark crystal wrote: »

So the men who actually had a 50% stake in making the baby should automatically get a promotion over the women who gave birth to the babies they both created

I understand having children may cause some inconvenience to an employer, but just because a woman happens to have the biological components needed to have a baby, doesn't mean they are any less entitled to promotion than the man who helped create that baby. Promotion should be based on performance and skill, not gender.

It's a fact of life that employees of both genders will continue to have families, but it's unfair to hold the view that only the women should be punished for doing so.

Unfortuntate - maybe - but you were born with the vadge at the end of the day.

As other people have said if you work for 5 yrs and take 2 yrs off for maternity which the man is not entitled to take then and as have you said above which I have highlighted tyour performance would have slipped during this time.

It's a fact of life. One you'll just have to get over. When a man and woman split up it's always the woman who gets total control over the child. Something us men have to deal with.

Life is tough, my heart bleeds for you.

Guy:Incognito

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Ive seen it 3 times in the last 4/5 years with my team.

Do you play a professional womans sport?

Getoffmytrain

Men work longer and more unsociable hours than women in full time jobs.
These studies often include part-time workers, of which a majority are women.
The pay gap is a myth if you measure pay per hour worked.

At the same time, CEOs, TDs and senior management are far more likely to be men, even in areas where women are in the majority.

smash

dark crystal wrote: »

So the men who actually had a 50% stake in making the baby should automatically get a promotion over the women who gave birth to the babies they both created

I understand having children may cause some inconvenience to an employer, but just because a woman happens to have the biological components needed to have a baby, doesn't mean they are any less entitled to promotion than the man who helped create that baby. Promotion should be based on performance and skill, not gender.

If someone is off work for a year then obviously the have nothing to base any performance on during that period. :rolleyes:

dark crystal

irelandrover wrote: »

Yes it does, if both people are equally good and one has worked the previous 2 years and another only worked 18 months out of the two years, who should get the promotion. It makes absolutely no differenece to the company why that person missed 6 months.

In that case, the only alternative is for women to put off having children altogether if they want to get promoted. Men, of course can continue to have children without it affecting them at all, but women in the same job must forgo having families if they wish to get ahead.

Would it not be fairer to have equal parental leave, as opposed to just maternity leave...this way, women would be less discriminated against in the event of starting a family.

smash

dark crystal wrote: »

In that case, the only alternative is for women to put off having children altogether if they want to get promoted. Men, of course can continue to have children without it affecting them at all, but women in the same job must forgo having families if they wish to get ahead.

This is not true at all. Women do not need to take extended maternity leave. They can also concentrate on career progression before having a baby which is the case these days. That's why you see women waiting until their 30's to have children.

dark crystal wrote: »

Would it not be fairer to have equal parental leave, as opposed to just maternity leave...this way, women would be less discriminated against in the event of starting a family.

Yes it would. Women's rights groups should campaign for this instead of saying there's a gender divide and pay inequality.

Stiffler2

dark crystal wrote: »

In that case, the only alternative is for women to put off having children altogether if they want to get promoted. Men, of course can continue to have children without it affecting them at all, but women in the same job must forgo having families if they wish to get ahead.

Would it not be fairer to have equal parental leave, as opposed to just maternity leave...this way, women would be less discriminated against in the event of starting a family.

Exactly - I think you're getting it now, basically they're 2 types of women :

Career Women - chose not to have kids to further their career
Housewives - worked for a period of time ,had kids, quit work or went back part time / not really ar$ed.

opinion guy

Stiffler2 wrote: »

It's a fact of life. One you'll just have to get over. When a man and woman split up it's always the woman who gets total control over the child. Something us men have to deal with.

Life is tough, my heart bleeds for you.

Two wrongs don't make a right. The law governing both areas needs changing

smash

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Exactly - I think you're getting it now, basically they're 2 types of women :

Career Women - chose not to have kids to further their career
Housewives - worked for a period of time ,had kids, quit work or went back part time / not really ar$ed.

You sound like an arse.

dark crystal

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Unfortuntate - maybe - but you were born with the vadge at the end of the day.

As other people have said if you work for 5 yrs and take 2 yrs off for maternity which the man is not entitled to take then and as have you said above which I have highlighted tyour performance would have slipped during this time.

It's a fact of life. One you'll just have to get over. When a man and woman split up it's always the woman who gets total control over the child. Something us men have to deal with.

Life is tough, my heart bleeds for you.

There's no need to feel sorry for me - Luckily, I manage to work around my children and my partners job and have no burning desire to get promoted in my crappy job. But thanks for the mature reply all the same...

Also, I don't agree with the lack of fathers rights in this country either, so don't try and beat me with that stick.

Life may be tough, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas that can't be improved on to make things better for everyone.

opinion guy

smash wrote: »

You sound like an arse.

I was going to say something along those lines but then I saw his username and was like...oh its Stiffler.....that explains it

jaja321

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Exactly - I think you're getting it now, basically they're 2 types of women :

Career Women - chose not to have kids to further their career
Housewives - worked for a period of time ,had kids, quit work or went back part time / not really ar$ed.

You've forgotten a third 'type': those women who want a career and want to have children

KeithAFC

This type of inequality is disgusting. This needs to be addressed and looked at and give women more basic human and civil rights.