ESB - Low useage charge.

ForestFire

Hi,

I am writing to you about the low usage charge on one of my two ESB accounts.

The first account I have used 623 units so there is no charge here.

My second account I have used 81units over 62 days and I have been charged an additional 12.36euro.

My understanding is the limit would be 124 units for this period on this bill.

If I had used the 124 units I would have avoided the low usage charge and charged for an extra 40 units at €5.90

How can you charge me 12euro when if I had used 40 more units I would only get charged 5.90 euro?? Please help me understand.

Would you recommend that I leave a light on in my house permanently?

Thanks

Electric Ireland: David

Hi ForestFire,

If you used less than the 2 units per day over 62 days, you should only have been charged an additional €9.61 (Incl VAT). The charge is 15.5c per day if a customer is subject to the charge in a given billing period.

ForestFire wrote:

Would you recommend that I leave a light on in my house permanently?

Is the house occupied? For safety reasons we would never recommend that power is left on in a premises if there is nobody present. Alarms/security systems would be an exception.

Regards,

David.

ForestFire

Hi Dave,

I think the charge is missleading on the bill...

Here is my standing charges


Standing Charge 33 days @ €0.2893 / day 9.55
Standing Charge Low Usage 29 days @ €0.4263 / day 12.3

Can you explain what portion is the additional low usage.
What I suspect now is that it is not the full 12.3euro?

Maybe you can clear this up:)

Electric Ireland: David

Hi ForestFire,

Thanks for posting those figures, it should help us clear this up.

You suspect rightly; the low usage standing charge accounts for €4.50 of the overall amount. The remainder is the normal standing charge.

As the low usage charge was only introducted on 1st February, the billing period is split into 33/29 (totalling 62 days, as you noted earlier). For 29 of the 62 days, the charge was increased to €0.4263 per day.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

David.

ebbsy

Only in Ireland.

Paddy De Plasterer

Do other companies like Airtricity etc impose this low usage surcharge. Only in Ireland could this happen, and who sanctioned it, what about regulator ?

Standing charge should be enough to cover all those matters.

Priori

Neither Airtricity or Bord Gáis have this kind of charge, although I wouldn't be that surprised to see them eventually introduce it.

Paddy De Plasterer wrote:

who sanctioned it, what about regulator ?

The regulator has done sweet feck all so far as I can see - since it was set up in 1999, it has only served to artificially rise energy prices so as to introduce "competition" into the Irish electricity market. But of course, if Electric Ireland beat off the competition too much (i.e. if they go above 60% market share) the regulator will chain them up again and control their prices.

Part of the solution - they introduce a charge to get rid of a lot of their unwanted customers (of the high cost-to-serve, vacant premise variety).

Just my theory.

Electric Ireland: David

Hi Paddy De Plasterer/Priori,

We have an FAQ concerning the Low Usage Standing Charge on our website here, which should answer any other questions you might have.

The charge shouldn't affect most customers, as we have kept the threshold at a very low level (120 units in a given billing period, which works out at 2 units per day). The average household uses 14 to 15 units per day, more than 7 times this amount.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

David.

Paddy De Plasterer

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

Hi Paddy De Plasterer/Priori,

We have an FAQ concerning the Low Usage Standing Charge on our website here, which should answer any other questions you might have.

The charge shouldn't affect most customers, as we have kept the threshold at a very low level (120 units in a given billing period, which works out at 2 units per day). The average household uses 14 to 15 units per day, more than 7 times this amount.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

David.

I live alone, have gas cooker, and am away from home a lot. Sometimes I use little electricity except for fridge, light etc. Why should I be hit with this. And what is a standing charge for ?

Electric Ireland: David

Hi Paddy De Plasterer,

The standing charge is a combination of the fixed charges associated with providing electricity network services (e.g. meter reading and network operations/maintenance) and a share of the supply costs in servicing your electricity account.

The alternative to introducing a low user standing charge was to increase the normal standing charges for all customers. We felt a fairer approach was to apply the charge solely on accounts where we are currently not recovering our full costs.

Regards,

David.

maggy_thatcher

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

Hi Paddy De Plasterer,

The standing charge is a combination of the fixed charges associated with providing electricity network services (e.g. meter reading and network operations/maintenance) and a share of the supply costs in servicing your electricity account.

The alternative to introducing a low user standing charge was to increase the normal standing charges for all customers. We felt a fairer approach was to apply the charge solely on accounts where we are currently not recovering our full costs.

Regards,

David.

Meter reading and network operations/maintenance is handled by the (separate) company ESB networks, not Electric Ireland - are they charging you a higher charge than what you charge customers (and then you recoup some of this additional charge in the form of the per-unit price?)

It does seem bizarre that in a world where we are trying to minimize electric consumption you would actively penalize people in the low usage category...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I would look on this not as a penalty on low users but making them pay the true cost of maintaining an electricity supply to them to use when they want it. Much more fair than asking for everybody else to pay towards it.

Anyway, if you think it unfair you can always move quite easily to one of the other electricity suppliers now available to you.

maggy_thatcher

If it isn't a "penalty on low users" - can you explain this graph?



This is what the monthly price of an Electric Ireland bill would be, assuming a 31 day month, a €0.1838 unit charge, a standard standing charge of €0.2893/day vs a low user standing charge of €0.4263/day.

As soon as your monthly bill crosses the 'yellow' line, you're better off actually hoping you use that little bit more to push you into the standard user charge, or else you are penalized with a higher bill...

At least, unless I've completely mis-read how the charge works?

the_syco

Rachel Blue Schwa wrote: »

I would look on this not as a penalty on low users but making them pay the true cost of maintaining an electricity supply to them to use when they want it. Much more fair than asking for everybody else to pay towards it.

Agree.

Rachel Blue Schwa wrote: »

Anyway, if you think it unfair you can always move quite easily to one of the other electricity suppliers now available to you.

So far, the regulator has ensured that the other resellers get resold EI's electricity at a cheaper price.

cautiouskate

I am still trying to figure out how this charge is calculated. Used 99 units in most recent billing period and was charged the low usage charge for 49 out of the 61 days of the billing period. How is the figure of 49 days decided on? Surely, if I am allowed 2 units per day that is 99 divided by two, equaling 49 days at normal charge and I should be charged low usage charge on the balance of the days i.e. 12 days. Or am I totally misunderstanding how the charges are made??

Electric Ireland: Orla

Hi cautiouskate,

If you used 99 units over a 61 day billing period then you are using 0.616 units per day. The low usage standing charge went live on the 1st of February. If you have been charged for 49 days out of the 61 day billing period, this may be because your billing period started before the 1st of February.

If you'd like, I can check this for you by viewing your account. To arrange this, please send a group PM to ourselves, with your:

-account number
-name, address, telephone number and DOB
-and confirm that you are the account holder

Thank you,
Orla

maggy_thatcher

Electric Ireland: Orla wrote: »

Hi cautiouskate,

If you used 99 units over a 61 day billing period then you are using 0.616 units per day.

OK - I know this wasn't addressed at me, but how do you get that 99 units over 61 days means 0.616 units per day?

99 units / 61 days = 1.62 units, isn't it?

or have I completely missed something?

61 units over 99 days = 0.616 units...

Electric Ireland: David

Hi maggy_thatcher,

You're spot on with that, apologies on our behalf for the miscalculation.

To return to the example given by cautiouskate:

cautiouskate wrote: »

Used 99 units in most recent billing period and was charged the low usage charge for 49 out of the 61 days of the billing period.

The charge was introduced on February 1st, which would explain why the charge only applied to 49 of the 61 days of the billing period.

For the charge to apply, a customer would have to use an average of 2 units or less per day over the bimonthly billing period (i.e. the 61 days).

If the 99 units in question were used in the 49 days (which is the crucial detail I would need to check), that would average out at 2 units per day, in which case the charge would apply. I would need to have a look at the bill itself to provide further clarification.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

David.

padraig77

Hi,

Have a query about my bill hope you can help with...I used 145 units over 63 days (10 Feb to 12 Apr) and was billed for 63 days standing charge @ E0.3857/day = E24.30 * 13% vat. Now my understanding is that am over the minimum units but still got billed for the standing charge, maybe this is just a clerical error....?

EI: Una

Hi Padraig,

If you send me by private message the account number, name and address on the account, and telephone number on the account, we will have a look for you.

If you could also confirm by private message that you are the named account-holder as we are only authorised to discuss accounts with customers in whose name the account is.

Thanks and regards
Una

Paddy De Plasterer

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

Hi Paddy De Plasterer,

The standing charge is a combination of the fixed charges associated with providing electricity network services (e.g. meter reading and network operations/maintenance) and a share of the supply costs in servicing your electricity account.

The alternative to introducing a low user standing charge was to increase the normal standing charges for all customers. We felt a fairer approach was to apply the charge solely on accounts where we are currently not recovering our full costs.

Regards,

David.

I weas caught for low usage ESB in Feb as i was away. For the next bill March/April i was well over the limit, but what do you think i got an estimated reading,and was again put down for low usage. This is wrong, and is bullying. I will refuse to pay it, and i defy ESB to knock me off or pursue it. I intend changhing to another supplier as a result.

jd83

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

I weas caught for low usage ESB in Feb as i was away. For the next bill March/April i was well over the limit, but what do you think i got an estimated reading,and was again put down for low usage. This is wrong, and is bullying. I will refuse to pay it, and i defy ESB to knock me off or pursue it. I intend changhing to another supplier as a result.

We changed as well. Anyone who has a problem with this its not going away so just change company. Next they will be introducing a "using too much electricity charge" and a " wasn't too low but not high enough charge"

EI: Una

Hi Paddy De Plasterer and JD83,

The reason for Electric Ireland's low usage standing charge is as follows (as per ElectricIreland.ie):

We recover the fixed and variable costs associated with providing customers with an electricity supply, through the unit price of electricity and through daily standing charges. Costs relating to the supply of electricity relate to networks maintenance, meter reading, billing and customer service charges. Where there is very low electricity usage in a premises, we cannot recover the full cost of servicing that premises. This leaves us with no option in these situations but to increase the standing charge on these accounts.

And in answer to the question of whether there is an alternative to this charge:

The alternative was to increase standing charges for all customers; however we feel a fairer approach is to apply the charge solely on accounts where we are currently not recovering our full costs.

Regards,
Una

jd83

You could say the same about a shop, it has to pay staff, rent, insurance and other costs to operate. Should 1 customer be penalized because he or she only buys 1 or 2 items and another customer buys more. I know you only work there, so not having a go at you but its just bad form.

Paddy De Plasterer

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi Paddy De Plasterer and JD83,

The reason for Electric Ireland's low usage standing charge is as follows (as per ElectricIreland.ie):


And in answer to the question of whether there is an alternative to this charge:


Regards,
Una

You obviously did not read my post - i was well over the threshold for March April, yet was hit with it through a stupid estimated reading. But dont worry, i will not pay it.And i will expose it. And what is the standing charge for by the way ?

EI: Una

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

what is the standing charge for by the way ?

Hi again,

Do you mean the low usage standing charge or the general one across the board?

Would you like me to have a look at your account? If so, I can advise you of what details to send me by private message.

Regards,
Una

Paddy De Plasterer

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi again,

Do you mean the low usage standing charge or the general one across the board?

Would you like me to have a look at your account? If so, I can advise you of what details to send me by private message.

Regards,
Una

You are obviously not familiar with your own procedures. Low usage of couse, even though i was well over the 2 units per day for the period.

EI: Una

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

You are obviously not familiar with your own procedures. Low usage of couse, even though i was well over the 2 units per day for the period.

Hi Paddy De Plasterer,

I requested clarification as to which standing charge you meant, as post #23 here gives an outline of the reason for the low usage standing charge.

Sorry for any confusion. We can have a look at your account no problem if you wish.

Regards,
Una

rameire

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

You obviously did not read my post - i was well over the threshold for March April, yet was hit with it through a stupid estimated reading. But dont worry, i will not pay it.And i will expose it. And what is the standing charge for by the way ?

why dont you submit a meter reading.

IrritatedNow

Since the "Standing Charge Low Usage" was introduced I have been charged it on my home usage as I use less than the 2 units average per day (as decided unilaterally by Electric Ireland). I live in my home most days of the year except when I get a few days away - holidays of a few days or more are a distant memory! When I have spoken to ElectricIreland they seem to find it hard to believe that I'm living in a house that uses so little electricity.
I'm obviously more energy efficient than I had thought I was as I'm now hit by this low usage charge. I was even considering getting the cavity of the walls pumped with insulation but I won't now as Electric Ireland are taking the money rather than me saving up for the insulation. When you have been brought up to turn off the lights in a room that's empty, close the curtains when it gets dark and therefore cold, close the doors of each room to keep the heat in and wear more clothes when it gets cold, I suppose you would use less energy - doh. In addition, I have double-glazed windows, A-rated appliances and energy efficient light bulbs so again I, according to Electric Ireland, am setting myself up to be penalised for being a good citizen. And just to rub it in, my bill informs how much (little, in my case) carbon emissions I've used.
It is also annoying that in addition to being charged for not using enough of their product, VAT is charged on top of that! I've just looked at the ElectricIreland Standard rates and see that the Standing Charge is EUR119.85 p.a. and the Low Usage Standing Charge is EUR176.61; with VAT on top of this, if you use too little electricity (according to ElectricIreland), then the difference is EUR64.43 a year out of your pocket. Quite a difference if you haven't got it.
And today, I find it even more galling to see on the Electric Ireland website, on the page headed "Trouble paying your bill?" [ https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/residential/manage-your-account/trouble-paying-your-bill.jsp ] that there is a link to "tips that could help reduce your bills"!!! A financial health warning should be put on this, to tell customers that if you reduce your bills too much then a charge will be slapped on you.
Half of my current bill is made up of the Low Usage charge. I will pay this bill but not happily and I am looking into changing providers. This is another instance where a citizen is paying for the empty buildings around this country. The ESB was founded in the 1920s, why has it taken almost 90 years for this charge to arise? I would like to see a reduction in staff and other costs before once again it is the customer which bears the brunt of waste and mismanagement.
This is a disgraceful charge which is hitting a silent group of people especially those who live alone and so don't use much electricity. (And, by the way, is this another example of one arm of the (semi-)state being subsidised by another - for instance, pensioners get their standing charge paid so if they are low usage customers then it's being paid out through social welfare and, yep, that's us the taxpayers paying out again.) Just because customers are not vocal doesn't mean they're not there - the Irish famously don't complain but do vote with their feet. Yes, there are empty properties which it has taken ESB 80-odd years to figure out a way to make them pay but that doesn't mean those of us who are energy efficient, and to add insult to injury being encouraged to use less energy resources, should have to.
And please, ElectricIreland, don't come back with that guff about servicing empty properties - you don't, that's the job of ESB networks - or that I'm one of the unlucky few who use too little of your product - that's just insulting those of us who have made serious efforts to reduce our carbon footprint.

Paddy De Plasterer

IrritatedNow wrote: »

Since the "Standing Charge Low Usage" was introduced I have been charged it on my home usage as I use less than the 2 units average per day (as decided unilaterally by Electric Ireland). I live in my home most days of the year except when I get a few days away - holidays of a few days or more are a distant memory! When I have spoken to ElectricIreland they seem to find it hard to believe that I'm living in a house that uses so little electricity.
I'm obviously more energy efficient than I had thought I was as I'm now hit by this low usage charge. I was even considering getting the cavity of the walls pumped with insulation but I won't now as Electric Ireland are taking the money rather than me saving up for the insulation. When you have been brought up to turn off the lights in a room that's empty, close the curtains when it gets dark and therefore cold, close the doors of each room to keep the heat in and wear more clothes when it gets cold, I suppose you would use less energy - doh. In addition, I have double-glazed windows, A-rated appliances and energy efficient light bulbs so again I, according to Electric Ireland, am setting myself up to be penalised for being a good citizen. And just to rub it in, my bill informs how much (little, in my case) carbon emissions I've used.
It is also annoying that in addition to being charged for not using enough of their product, VAT is charged on top of that! I've just looked at the ElectricIreland Standard rates and see that the Standing Charge is EUR119.85 p.a. and the Low Usage Standing Charge is EUR176.61; with VAT on top of this, if you use too little electricity (according to ElectricIreland), then the difference is EUR64.43 a year out of your pocket. Quite a difference if you haven't got it.
And today, I find it even more galling to see on the Electric Ireland website, on the page headed "Trouble paying your bill?" [ https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/residential/manage-your-account/trouble-paying-your-bill.jsp ] that there is a link to "tips that could help reduce your bills"!!! A financial health warning should be put on this, to tell customers that if you reduce your bills too much then a charge will be slapped on you.
Half of my current bill is made up of the Low Usage charge. I will pay this bill but not happily and I am looking into changing providers. This is another instance where a citizen is paying for the empty buildings around this country. The ESB was founded in the 1920s, why has it taken almost 90 years for this charge to arise? I would like to see a reduction in staff and other costs before once again it is the customer which bears the brunt of waste and mismanagement.
This is a disgraceful charge which is hitting a silent group of people especially those who live alone and so don't use much electricity. (And, by the way, is this another example of one arm of the (semi-)state being subsidised by another - for instance, pensioners get their standing charge paid so if they are low usage customers then it's being paid out through social welfare and, yep, that's us the taxpayers paying out again.) Just because customers are not vocal doesn't mean they're not there - the Irish famously don't complain but do vote with their feet. Yes, there are empty properties which it has taken ESB 80-odd years to figure out a way to make them pay but that doesn't mean those of us who are energy efficient, and to add insult to injury being encouraged to use less energy resources, should have to.
And please, ElectricIreland, don't come back with that guff about servicing empty properties - you don't, that's the job of ESB networks - or that I'm one of the unlucky few who use too little of your product - that's just insulting those of us who have made serious efforts to reduce our carbon footprint.

Excellent post, I also live alone,use little electricity, has a gas cooker for cooking (bottle gas) and got penalised. I have started puting up my useage, now -electric heaters etc which i dont need as i feel it is better to use it than give money to EI.I have a solid fuel stove. I am thinking of changing provider.