Man wants maintenance repaid following dna test

Freefallen

Should a man get maintenance repaid after dna test proves the child is not his 3 years later??

Fittle

My initial, and immediate reaction to your question was of course, yes.

But when I thought about it more, I think it depends on the circumstances. Did he raise the child as his own for a period of time? Does the child think he is his/her dad?

I think if either of the above was the situation, that he possibly should not expect to be paid back - if he was acting as the childs father, than the maintenance should have contributed to the upkeep of the child.

But if he has little or no contact with the child, and has now found out that he's not the dad, then yes, I think he should be repaid.
If the woman set out to decieve him, then absolutely, yes, he should be repaid.

But there are various scenarios in this situation that might have varying answers to your question.

cynder

If his not the biological father or adoptive father than yes. Doesn't matter if he acted as the dad he isn't. can't imagine the anguish a father must feel after 3 years of being one, falling in love and bonding with the child then finding out he isn't a father . No amount of back money will replace that loss.

MarkR

Kind of a judge judy thing. It would be fair to the man to get it back. The mother defrauded him. Is the mother able to pay? Would repayment cause financial hardship for the child?

Most importantly, does that child know the man as daddy? Or is he just providing maintenance.

wolfpawnat

Oh God yes!!!! The woman should be made pay every penny! She defrauded the man and it is not his fault in anyway! He and the child are both victims!

up for anything

MarkR wrote: »

The mother defrauded him. ?

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Oh God yes!!!! The woman should be made pay every penny! She defrauded the man and it is not his fault in anyway! He and the child are both victims!

So quick to judge. I am sure there are many instances where it might not be intentional and therefore not fraud, but perhaps ignorance and lack of biological education. Then again, maybe the man knew at the outset that there was a chance the child wasn't his and still decided to act daddy and for whatever reasons changed his mind a few years later and is looking to recoup his losses.

Fittle

We don't know that the mother 'defrauded' him. We would need more information on this situation before any of us can judge.

MarkR

If she told him he was the father, and wasn't sure he was the father, then she was deceiving him.

She had sex with another man (presumably) so had to have known that there was a percentage chance that the other man wasn't the dad.

Intention doesn't really come into it, unless somehow she didn't know that she'd had sex with another man.

If he went into it eyes open, then there isn't any deception.

wolfpawnat

up for anything wrote: »

So quick to judge. I am sure there are many instances where it might not be intentional and therefore not fraud, but perhaps ignorance and lack of biological education. Then again, maybe the man knew at the outset that there was a chance the child wasn't his and still decided to act daddy and for whatever reasons changed his mind a few years later and is looking to recoup his losses.

Quick to judge? She slept with more than one man and allowed one act as father without informing him for 3 years that he may not be the father!!!! How can it not be intentional, she slept with more than one man!?!?!?!?!

Had he known there was a chance from the outset that he was not the father and he chose to go ahead for 3 years and not get the DNA test is one thing, were he oblivious then the cow should be held accountable legally!

iguana

MarkR wrote: »

If she told him he was the father, and wasn't sure he was the father, then she was deceiving him.

She had sex with another man (presumably) so had to have know.

You'd think that but some people get incredibly confused about the fact that as we currently date pregnancy you aren't actually pregnant for week 1 and 2, maybe even 3 if your cycle is more than 28 days, as an awful lot are.

Imagine a woman who doesn't understand how the dating system works has gets her period Jan 1st. She has sex with a man toward the end of her menstruation on the 5th. Then she has sex with a different man 16 days later, around the 20th of January, which is also the time of her ovulation. February comes, but her period doesn't. She does a pregnancy test and it's positive. She's freaked out, who's the father? She goes to the doctor on the 6th of February. He asks the day of her last period and when she tells him, he tells her she is just over 5 weeks pregnant. Great, now she has her answer, if she's over 5 weeks pregnant the father is the guy she was with over a month ago not the guy she was with 2 weeks ago.

Of course she's got it backwards, but it's not deliberate on her part. I don't even think you'd have to be particularly foolish to make that mistake. If no-one ever explained to you that you begin counting the weeks of a pregnancy 2-3 weeks before you were even pregnant, you'd never guess that's how it's done.

Freefallen

Basically, he acted as the father from the get go. He was denied the opportunity to witness the delivery. Wasnt allowed to see the child on birthdays, fathers day, christmas day, easter etc. Yet he continued to be there and provide for the child as he was oblivious that there was a possibility that the child was not his. During the pregnancy he asked the mother a few times was he the father and she said yes he was. From the moment the child was born the mother and her family treated him in a terrible fashion but he stuck it out cause he thoroughly believed he was the father and that the mother was being the way she was because she was a "bitch"

He contributed in every way that he possibly could. He paid for the christening, paid maintenance, gave more when needed and possible, paid for christmas clothes, gifts and presents, gave extra for holidays etc, days out trips etc..

He now totally believes that the mother, her family and friends were aware all along that the child was not his but used him as a scapegoat to maintain their and their daughters dignity and pride.

Example, he can remember at the christening after the service when the families were taking photos of the child, mother and "father" The paternal grandfather ask the "father" to step a side from the mother and child signalling that he did not want the "father" in the photo. Why did the paternal grandfather do this...??? They also made it their business not to mingle or get to close to his family. The mother hadnt even the courtesy to thank his family, relatives and friends for gifts etc. She used the money given by his family and friends to get professional photos/portraits of the child and never even offered any of them to him or his family, not even the negatives or copies of....

The period following was very hard for the "father" The mother and her family became very difficult and unreasonable towards him and treated him in a disgraceful manner.
She refused to put him on the birthcert saying it would affect her lone parent payment or give him guardianship. Began to mess him around in regards to access but none the less he continually believed that the child was his.

So he went to court for guardianship and regulated access, he established a parenting plan with the mothers solicitor and it was made a court order.

The decision to go to court had a big effect on him and he slipped in to depression and suffered with it for over six months and was diagnosed with clinical depression resulting with being admitted to hospital and received counselling after his discharge plus many visits to his physiciatrist and gp. It had a detrimental effect on him.

He didnt see the child for 2 weeks, letting his parents take her on the arranged days. During this period the mother said to his mother that the child is definately his. He got himself together and reinstated access continually paying maintenance.

Then all of a sudden the mother's attitude towards him changed and she wanted to rekindle the relationship with him and foolishly he went with it.

Everything was fine for a couple of months and she started to act up again treating him awfully. He gave it his all trying to keep the relationship alive but the mother wasnt happy for reasons only known to her(at the time) but looking back it was obvious she was aware she was living a lie and the guilt of it all was getting to her.

So they broke up again and she continued to treat him like ****...

Then his brother and his partner had a baby and he got talking with his brothers partner about pregnancy. She asked him how long was "his child in the womb/lenght of the pregnancy" He said the child was born in the 36th week and the mother said the child came early BUT he remembered the nurse in the hospital saying that it was a full term pregnancy if ever she seen one.. His brothers partner( a lot of her family work in a maternity hospital) informed him that a full term pregnancy is between 40 and 44 weeks not 36.. So he started to get doubt and did some research in to pregnancy, the on set of it, when morning sickness starts etc... Following this he had serious doubt so went to court for a court ordered paternity test cause when he asked her she laughed it off and said i'm not paying for it...

Before he realised that it was possible the child was not his. She made his life hell. Had cases against him wanting to stop him from seeing the child.. He then established cases against her And then the doubt occured and he went for the court ordered paternity test. He still believed that child was his but wasnt sure..??? But went with it in anyway for the clarity. The mother admitted in court to the judge that there's a possibility that the child was not his. Well he nearly fell of the seat in the court. The judge struck out everything, previous orders and current cases. He could tell when he went to collect the child for access that the mother was seriosly rattled after she recieved the summons for the court ordered paternity test, her body language said it all. Then by the way she carried on he realised that she knew all along that it was highly possible the child was not his but used him as a scapegoat and a cash cow and was willing to carry on with her lie forever....

Then he got the test done and the result's arrived and caused immense damage and a lot of collateral damage too....

Thats 4 years of his life he can never get back due to her lies...

There's a lot more detail to this saga...

Very sad situation....

planetX

It's terribly sad, but most of all for the child. She's lost her father.

the_syco

Freefallen wrote: »

Very sad situation....

Yes. A saying "revenge is a dish best served cold" comes to mind. He should get all the maintenance back, and she should serve some jailtime to show that this is not allowed.

Freefallen

Very true, the child was his world and he adored her.. He was her "daddy"

After the court he questioned her and it turned out she had (unprotected) sex with someone(s) while on holiday. The mother was on holiday with her sister and friend so they also knew that it was very possible that the child was not his but maintained silence for the sake of their sister/friend....

Some where out there is the child's real father, grandmother, grandfather and relatives and they don't even know it....

Yet his family have lost a grandchild, a cousin etc...

wolfpawnat

Well then that "lady" should be taken to the cleaners to get back every penny she STOLE from the man!

As for the dates of pregnancy possibly being off by 2 weeks, ANYONE you sleep with within the month of conception has the potential to be the child's father, what's to say the man referred to by the OP slept with slept with her on the time of ovulation? He may have slept with her at the end of week one and she decided he was the better man to choose to pretend to be the childs father.

I have seen a horrific situation recently where a friend (of whom I refuse to talk to anymore) was 2 weeks pregnant, realised this and then snared some poor decent bloke as father to her child, thankfully the man had good sense to get the DNA done!

My own mother did it with my sister, my father only got the truth out of her after my sister turned 21!!!! I have no time for my mother and women like her!!!!! She should be forced to pay back every penny and serve a nice long sentence with it!

What has happened the child is horrific, but it is that cows fault for doing it, she lied to the man and to her child!

If a woman is unsure of who the father is, the least they can do is be honest with the man, if he gets the test done then and he is the father then that's different!

heate

What kind of society has developed that children don't know who their father is. If that chap had half a brain he should of demanded a paternity test from the get go. As for the 'lady' in this case come on use a bloody condom and stop bringing children who are not wanted into this world

Freefallen

He also told the mother in the time between the test and the arrival of the result that if it comes back that he is not the biological father that he wants everything repaid, maintenance and all other costs incurred. This is because he was duped by to her lies and everything was done and paid for under false pretences. She then changed her phone number and blocked his family on social websites. When the result came back he contacted her father and told him that his daughter owes him a substantial amount of money. His reply was "what are you telling me for" and then informed "you'll have to go to court"

Freefallen

He was a very genuine, honest trusting individual to his peril(obviously)

The whole experience has changed him dramatically.

The mother would give women and mothers a bad name.

iguana

Freefallen wrote: »

When the result came back he contacted her father and told him that his daughter owes him a substantial amount of money. His reply was "what are you telling me for" and added "you'll have to go to court"

Well I'm afraid that he definitely will have to go to court in order to get the money back. I doubt the mother or anyone in her family are going to suddenly just pay him back all the money of their own volition. The problem is there are no guarantees with taking her to court and it may cost more than it's worth. In fact there is very little precedent of men taking cases like this and winning. If he does want to go down that road he's going to need legal advice.

He's going to need to decide what would be the motivation for taking the case. Does he just want the money back or does he want revenge? Because unfortunately taking the case could easily cost him much more than he is ever awarded. It's worth getting legal advice but I'm not sure if he will have much chance of success, I'm afraid.

Here's an article of a UK case. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/apr/04/law.world

Freefallen

The motivation for his case is the damage, hurt, loss and devastation caused to him both emotionally and financially. He suffered a hell of a lot and still does suffer due to her lies...

The devastation she has caused will not simply not just go away.

Then there is the loss, hurt, damage and devastation caused to his family too.

tfitzgerald

Of course he should get his money paid back

iguana

Freefallen wrote: »

The motivation for his case is the damage, hurt, loss and devastation caused to him both emotionally and financially. He suffered a hell of a lot and still does suffer due to her lies...

The devastation she has caused will not simply not just go away.

Then there is the loss, hurt, damage and devastation caused to his family too.

Of course it doesn't. But afaik this would be a civil case. That means he would have to employ a solicitor and as there is such a poor record for these cases it is not likely to be no win/no fee, so he would have substantial costs. There would also be court costs that could be awarded against him. Even if he does win, it doesn't appear that he would get everything he has paid out back, so the odds are he will end up even more out of pocket than he is now.

So if his motivation is to get his money back then he needs to think hard and get a lot of advice because it will be a long hard road with very little chance of winning. If his motivation is to upset the mother and her family, put them under stress, humiliate them and cost them financially, even if it doesn't reimburse him. Then I guess he could easily succeed at that. But he has to ask himself if that's really enough. As people often feel even worse after they get revenge.

I know it's not fair and I'm not saying he shouldn't pursue it and find out for certain. And the woman certainly should have to reimburse him, it's just that that's not very likely to happen. A judge will look at a single mother on a low income and not be likely to make a financial judgement against her. It really might be best for your friend's own sanity to find a way to let it go and move on. I know that sucks but sometimes life is just awful.

Daisy M

What happened is terrible especailly on the child, who knows what she is been told to explain the absence of her dad.
While I agree that the money should be paid back I think trying to retrieve it will actually cost the "father" more emotionally. He will spend a lot of time trying to get anywhere and face large solicitor bills. If the mother can prove she cant afford to repay the money she may be ordered to repay it at a minimal rate. Even then she may try and get out of paying and further court trips may be required. This man needs to speak to a solicitor and decide what the best action for him and his future is, I know it would be galling to walk away but if it means he gets over what happened sooner rather than later that may be for the best.
One way of looking at it is that he actually saved paying maintainance for someone elses child for the next 15 years and the mother will surely pay the price now as she doesnt even know who the real father is to pursue.

budweiser6

That is such a sad sad story. On first reaction ya definately of course he should get the money back, this 'mother' duped an obviously decent guy however my experience recently of family law makes me think hes in for a long and expensive journey through the courts system, interlaced probably by adjournments, fabricated statement of means etc by her and may just result in another financial hit coupled with the already emotional devastation of knowing that the child you 'thought' you had actually isn't... I don't know how anybody could get their head around this. I'm finding it hard myself to imagine what it'd be like and how you'd cope. As somebody else said the only 'up' side is that at least he knows now, it'd be a hell of alot worse to find out in 10 years time. Most of all I feel sorry for the child no matter what age they are they 'sense' things......:(

Moonbeam

The poor guy, no one should have to suffer through that.
The poor child their whole identity is in question now or else the think daddy does not love them anymore.
I think he needs a solicitor.

I hope he is ok.

cynder

Wondering if the man would still want access to the child as he has grown to love her as his own, I believe when someone acts as locoparentas they can apply for visitation. Or would the man just wipe the slate clean and walk away?


It's an awful situation to be in.

I am a friend

up for anything wrote: »

I am sure there are many instances where it might not be intentional and therefore not fraud, but perhaps ignorance and lack of biological education.

Poor excuses in this day and age...

samina

Terribly sad situation for himself and his family as well as the child. He should be entitled to all he paid.

One has to wonder how many other men are in this situation and don't or never will know.

Tomk1

grindelwald wrote: »

Wondering if the man would still want access to the child as he has grown to love her as his own, I believe when someone acts as locoparentas they can apply for visitation. Or would the man just wipe the slate clean and walk away?


It's an awful situation to be in.

I was wondering the same thing, in the childs eyes his her father, and in his eyes she was his daughter.

But from the story and the lie about the birth-cert, sadly, I think he should wash his hands of it, forget the money and walk away with his head held high, and met a proper woman, have some kids of his own, as he sounds like he'ld be a great father.

notsobusy

God that is awful, what a total slag to do that.

I feel awful for the poor child involved the mother is obviously extremely selfish.

He needs to go to a solicitor and find out whether it would be worth his while, make sure he goes to a really good family law solicitor.

If he really wants revenge he should threaten to go to the papers......but I'm guessing that this guy is far too nice for something like that but her family and her sound like total scumbags.

Sleepy

Since it was mentioned in the thread already that the woman in question is receiving the One-Parent Family Payment and was trying to block guardianship out of worry of affecting this I'd be reluctant to bring a civil case if I were in this poor chap's shoes.

The mother is clearly either not in a position to support herself or good enough at "proving" that she's not that it'll be difficult for the courts to do anything other than place a tiny lien on her payments e.g. €10 a week which would take decades for the man to be paid back via.

In his shoes, I'd be inclined to cut my losses unless I could legal aid to pay for the solicitor/barristers and write off the maintenance he's paid as the whore's fee.