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Why isn't Irish traditional music popular?

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  • 03-03-2012 8:34pm
    #1
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭


    I don't mean as in Ed Sheeran/chart type "mainstream" popularity, but as popular as other genres of music (Eg metal/punk etc.) that are not on the radio but still have a sustainable fanbase.

    I know serious music fans too who listen to most stuff (like myself) but just don't listen to trad.

    I listen to a good bit of it, from The Dubliners to Tommy Fleming but most people I know don't listen to it, barr a few who would like maybe a few songs by Christy Moore or The Pogues.

    Even the Traditional forum here on boards can be quite inactive at times compared to the other music forums.

    Is it because Irish trad is stereotyped as being for an older generation or such?


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    #2
    SilverScreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭SilverScreen


    You would have a lot of the older generation being into Irish trad but plenty of young people as well. There's still tons of trad sessions in pubs across the country, especially in the West, and you'll hear a lot of it on local radio stations so to say that Irish traditional music isn't popular is a bit wide of the mark. It's probably not as popular as it once was but it is still well and truly there.


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    #3
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    It is popular though...........


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    #4
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,691 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    ...cos a lot of its dung?


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    #5
    Rigsby
    Registered Users Posts: 4,452 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    It is popular though...........

    Yes. Everywhere.....except in Ireland. ;)


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    #6
    darkdubh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭darkdubh


    I think a lot of the trad you hear on the radio,at least daytime radio, is not true trad but some awful bastardised version such as country,n Irish or very middle of the road kind of stuff.


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    #7
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Because Im tired of it , there hasnt been a new artist releasing good stuff in along time.
    MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN BUT NOBODY TOLD ME
    Even that George Murphy fella , good at covers but as far as I remember his new stuff was below par.
    I will go to youtube now to see if i remember that right.

    He did two trad albums nearly every song if not every song was a cover as far as I gather.
    He did one original album and it was more pop rock , decent single on the pop rock album called something out of nothing.


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    #8
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    The predominantly popular music worldwide is pop/rock, music like trad, opera and folk will always be a minority interest by and large.


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    #9
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    darkdubh wrote: »
    I think a lot of the trad you hear on the radio,at least daytime radio, is not true trad but some awful bastardised version such as country,n Irish or very middle of the road kind of stuff.

    Barr DublinCityFM, Q102 is the only radio station I've heard playing anything remotely trad. That is Mary Black's version of No Frontiers, Christy Moore's Voyage and Sharon Shannon and Mundy's The Galway Girl. I would probably say the CM song is the only one of the three that is pure trad.
    Technocentral wrote: »
    The predominantly popular music worldwide is pop/rock, music like trad, opera and folk will always be a minority interest by and large.

    I wouldn't give up hope just yet.

    Most of what is in the charts today is rubbish but I do see a day when minority music genres (like trad) will make a comeback.


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    #10
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Barr DublinCityFM, Q102 is the only radio station I've heard playing anything remotely trad. That is Mary Black's version of No Frontiers, Christy Moore's Voyage and Sharon Shannon and Mundy's The Galway Girl. I would probably say the CM song is the only one of the three that is pure trad.

    If you think those songs are examples of traditional Irish music, you should retitle the thread. Those are folkish ballads at best. The Voyage: 'Pure trad'? ****in' hell..

    If you're looking for actual traditional Irish music on the radio, maybe try Grace Notes on Lyric.


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    #11
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Heard one, heard them all


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    #12
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Are ye talking about jigs and reels or something else entirely?


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    #13
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Sinfonia wrote: »
    If you think those songs are examples of traditional Irish music, you should retitle the thread. Those are folkish ballads at best. The Voyage: 'Pure trad'? ****in' hell..

    If you're looking for actual traditional Irish music on the radio, maybe try Grace Notes on Lyric.

    I don't think they are examples of traditional Irish music.

    "Remotely trad" does not imply a song to be pure trad.


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    #14
    Malice
    Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Malice


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Barr DublinCityFM, Q102 is the only radio station I've heard playing anything remotely trad.
    Doesn't Raidió na Gaeltachta play traditional music?


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    #15
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Malice wrote: »
    Doesn't Raidió na Gaeltachta play traditional music?

    Never listened to them but I'll check it out to see if they have any.


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    #16
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    karaokeman wrote: »
    I don't think they are examples of traditional Irish music.

    "Remotely trad" does not imply a song to be pure trad.
    karaokeman wrote: »
    I would probably say the CM song is the only one of the three that is pure trad.
    :confused:


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    #17
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Sinfonia wrote: »
    :confused:

    So what is the difference?

    The Voyage was written by Johnny Duhan who was a folk songwriter.

    If you look up "Irish traditional music" it will come up on wikipedia under the general term "Folk music of Ireland".

    Trad music is folk. Folk is traditional music, it is traditional because it uses traditional instruments.

    In the 1960s there was a folk revival and it became known as "world music" when elements of metal, jazz, rock and other genres were incorporated. Some material you would have found in that area may have been defined as not real folk music or not pure trad.

    The Voyage is trad because it is written in the traditional style of a folk song. There's no electric instruments or commercial elements to it.


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    #18
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭trashcan


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Sharon Shannon and Mundy's The Galway Girl.

    You mean Steve Earles Galway Girl ? (Thats the American, Steve Earle!)

    I certainly wouldn't say that trad is not popular. Don't make the mistake of thinking Chart music and popular music are the same thing, they frequently aren't.


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    #19
    lordgoat
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    karaokeman wrote: »
    So what is the difference?

    The Voyage was written by Johnny Duhan who was a folk songwriter.

    If you look up "Irish traditional music" it will come up on wikipedia under the general term "Folk music of Ireland".

    Trad music is folk. Folk is traditional music, it is traditional because it uses traditional instruments.

    In the 1960s there was a folk revival and it became known as "world music" when elements of metal, jazz, rock and other genres were incorporated. Some material you would have found in that area may have been defined as not real folk music or not pure trad.

    The Voyage is trad because it is written in the traditional style of a folk song. There's no electric instruments or commercial elements to it.


    wtf?

    Trad to me and i'd say anyone else with a clue is what you get at Fleadh Cheoil.


    The main reason i think it's becoming less popular is the fact that in competitions like Fleadh, what they look for (or used to it's been a good while since i've listened) is someone who plays the song how it was always played. They don't like modern takes on jigs/reels etc. And i can see this stance is taken however i think it stifles creativity.

    Christy Moore - trad? Wow.


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    #20
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,333 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    lordgoat wrote: »
    wtf?

    Trad to me and i'd say anyone else with a clue is what you get at Fleadh Cheoil.


    The main reason i think it's becoming less popular is the fact that in competitions like Fleadh, what they look for (or used to it's been a good while since i've listened) is someone who plays the song how it was always played. They don't like modern takes on jigs/reels etc. And i can see this stance is taken however i think it stifles creativity.

    Christy Moore - trad? Wow.

    Man, just let it wash over you, always the best response...


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    #21
    Caraville
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Caraville


    Was at the fleadh in Cavan the year before last, the place was heaving with people, young and old, wandering the streets, in pubs, in doorways of shops just playing trad. It was insane the amount of people that were there.

    So it is popular, it's just it's not played on most radio stations so you're not as exposed to it unless someone in your family is into trad. I'd highly recommend people go to a fleadh at last one in their lives, a great experience.

    And seriously, some people's idea here of what trad is is just bizarre...


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    #22
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Caraville wrote: »
    it's not played on most radio stations so you're not as exposed to it

    I don't listen to the radio, if you read my OP you will see my reason for believing trad is unpopular is due to the lack of interest between my friends.


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    #23
    SilverScreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭SilverScreen


    karaokeman wrote: »
    I don't listen to the radio, if you read my OP you will see my reason for believing trad is unpopular is due to the lack of interest between my friends.
    So you're saying that your friends speak for everyone else then? That doesn't seem like a valid enough reason. Dubstep isn't popular among my friends but that doesn't mean that it's unpopular in general.


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    #24
    BrensBenz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭BrensBenz


    It pains me to say this because the musician’s skill level can be very high but…..God, it’s boring! Two, three or even four high-pitched whiny instruments all playing exactly the same note with no attempt to add some depth with harmony. The almost unheard background plonking on piano or guitar doesn’t help either. Anyone remember what Planxty and their ilk could do with just a few musicians? Intricate and multi-layered music – it was panoramic.
    Fortunately, the days of the ancient, toothless singer are over but the obligatory closed eyes and “I’ll squeeze twenty notes in here if it kills me” style remains. But it’s our heritage and Heaven help anyone who tries to improve I mean change it.
    By the way, I came across some old Clancy Brothers stuff on youtube – can’t figure out how to add links – but, you know, they WERE good!


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    #25
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Zero1986 wrote: »
    So you're saying that your friends speak for everyone else then? That doesn't seem like a valid enough reason. Dubstep isn't popular among my friends but that doesn't mean that it's unpopular in general.

    I have several friends and friends of friends but I never really met anyone as into folk/trad my own age as I am (20).

    And in case you're confused by the radio comment I'll concede that I do listen to it, but not by choice to hear new music. When I want to hear music I've never heard I go on youtube. I hear the radio whenever I'm in someone's car and I rarely ever hear trad barr the few times I used to listen to DublinCityFM.


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    #26
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,836 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Trad doesn't exactly come with an image the same way metal, punk etc would and a lot of people growing up are trying to identify with an image and to fit in to a certain group. You'll usually find groups of friends will listen to the same music and with genres like metal and punk, general appearance, fashion and style will be part of this too.

    Trad doesn't generally have a rebellious image either and might be associated with old country folk, so not the most attractive for a teenager growing up, which is when most people will hone their music taste. Also, you always have people giving a blanket judgement on one genre of music based on what is perceived to be the popular amongst it. This is evident even with the suggestions above that Mary Black falls into the genre, aswell as "heard one, heard them all" comments.

    Have a listen to some of these for a bridge between trad Irish and what's a more modern style:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxE_DPQV4Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xTZcdoOjjs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aABohlZQM9c


    People dismiss whole genres based on what's popular within the genre or the image that may be associated with it, I think that's an unfortunate choice.


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