Thought cause hatred and depression.

Sindri

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Probably because your ego fears stillness, stillness reveals your mind made identity to be nonsense. That's why people feel "awkward" silences. The ego is being exposed in that silence.

WTF sort of pseudo bull**** are you on about?

WTF!!!

mikom

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Probably because your ego fears stillness, stillness reveals your mind made identity to be nonsense. That's why people feel "awkward" silences. The ego is being exposed in that silence.

Smoke a spliff of well cured sensi and your ego will shut the fuck up for a while....... this I guarantee.

Sindri

Cachinnations at the abbreviation of Eckhart Tolle as ET.

Red21

Biggins wrote: »

My overall concern is a number of things when I come across material such as his - and I admittedly can be very wrong in the following.

1. ET trying to get his ideas and theory's out there for if one looks, for the sake of profit and raking money in by clearly profession applied ways.
(Reminds me personally of the marketing and methods of the Scientology cult immediately, in revenue collection. Something I have studied for decades and personally involved in curtailing.)

2. The fact that in learning all this stuff and it taking up so much of ones time that instead of living a life, ones life is just spent more so on this stuff than living it.

Seriously?
The guy had something to say, so he wrote it all down and made a book out of it, this is not all that uncommon, but in his case it turned out that many people are interested and found some kinda worth in what he has to say.
Whats he supposed to do? Take the books off the shelf because they are achieving what they set out to do? How do know what he does with his money? as far as i'm aware he lives a very modest lifestyle and even if he didn't whould that effect the content of his books?

Scanlas The 2nd

Biggins wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

...Your perspective should be the observer of your thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You seem to be criticising what Tolle teaches without understanding what he teaches. By definition you can't prop yourself up intellectually by taking on board his teachings.

Any chance of speaking in words that make plain sense instead of talking in proverbial riddles?
What the fcuk are you on about?

...But for alone every six months, you can learn more and sound like your talking in riddles too!
https://www.eckharttolletv.com/join/

...After you have bought the DVD's, the books and then subscribed to other material also!
Get your checkbook out folks!

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Bla... bla... ...thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.

...So his teachings have thought you that when you get the emotion to kill, you should just go out and go it?

Stop listening to this daft stuff and go out and get a life!

He teaches you to be the observer of the thoughts and emotions that arise within you. Most people think they are there thoughts and emotions. Who you are is the presence or awareness behind your thoughts and emotions. He doesn't teach you to kill if you get an urge to kill, just to pay attention to the emotions in your body and how they feel, don't fight them, just let them be. You choose whatever actions you want to take.

As you can see from Internet forums like this, when you think your thoughts are who you are you get offended very easily by others belittling your opinion. As a result of your identification with your thoughts other people's comments have huge power to effect you emotionally and to hurt you. When you are present you can't be offended. Your thoughts and the story of who you are become very important to you when not present. It can consume your thinking and relationship to the world. You joy of life is lessened. Depression can follow, often people use drugs or alcohol to get some sort of joy from life that excessive thinking has removed.

Snake Pliisken

chin_grin wrote: »

Prefer a bit of Alan Watts meself. (The waves look like bewbs.....teeheehee).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrMVous0Ac

Im gonna quote this just to give people a second chance to click on it after passing over it the first time.

And here's a longer video for anyone who has the interest. Tolle and Watts are saying the same thing, it's just dressed up differently. For me at least, Id rather listen to someone who sounds like James Bond's dad rather than Dr. Strangelove's slow brother.

Wibbs

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You can choose to be comfortable with the way things are by being present. Thoughts cause most suffering.

It's really old hat this stuff. Live in the now etc. Yellow pack Buddhism repackaged for the disconnected and confused by the levels of first world choices they fret about navigating suburban set. A better polished version of The Secret minus the utter daftness of same. Even there TBH I rate Buddha in some ways, but in other ways I find him a right self absorbed type. Had hangups about the ladies to boot. Jesus could come down with some of that, but was generally more about the external and practical without disappearing up his own arse and for his time was unusually way more OK with women.

However I would agree with the ego being the bearer of bad news to the mind and actions. There is certainly more of a balance to be struck. In most cases of human unhappiness and stress it's the ego or a concentration on same in play. And it can be a struggle. It does get easier with the years I have to report. IF you are aware of it. If you feel shy, that's the ego shouting. If you feel a grudge that's the ego talking. If you can't let go of the shíte in your head that's the oul ego talking again. It's a loooong list.

At the same time it's all too easy to disappear up your own arse if you're not equipped to swim in the deep end of your own head. IMHO that can be a cause of problems. Just like I dunno running, some are naturally better at it than others. Sure we can all get better with practice, but if you don't know the right technique and push too far, too soon, it's all too easy to pull a muscle. Ditto with getting into your own head. Even talented people can come asunder. Quite a number of great philosophers went nuts(clinical term). So some caution is advised IMHO.



TL;DR? Don't sweat the small, even the medium stuff. Realise that a lot of what appears to be the big stuff usually isn't. Realise it'll ALL be forgotten. The graves are filled with forgotten self imposed guilt and ego and anquish and any one of those dry bones that was once like you would give anything to experience being you at your very worst if only for ten seconds. So chill the fcuk out and try to enjoy each second for the all too brief gift it is. (c) Wibbs 2012.

ygolometsipe

Dostoevsky wrote: »

His book, The Power of Now, is however well worth reading.

why?

Scanlas The 2nd

ygolometsipe wrote: »

Dostoevsky wrote: »

His book, The Power of Now, is however well worth reading.

why?

It can alter your way of being/living to make you enjoy life more and reduce your anxiety, depression, embarrassment etc.

ygolometsipe

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

It can alter your way of being/living to make you enjoy life more and reduce your anxiety, depression, embarrassment etc.

how much is the book then?

mikom

ygolometsipe wrote: »

how much is the book then?

Free.
Sean Sherlock uploaded it to rapidshare for me.

Scanlas The 2nd

ygolometsipe wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

It can alter your way of being/living to make you enjoy life more and reduce your anxiety, depression, embarrassment etc.

how much is the book then?

About 10 euro id say.

Earthhorse

Wibbs wrote: »

It's really old hat this stuff. Live in the now etc.

I don't think anybody's trying to say it's new, least of all Tolle. Old hat makes it sound like it's outworn it's use which just isn't true.

Yellow pack Buddhism repackaged for the disconnected and confused by the levels of first world choices they fret about navigating suburban set.

Yellow pack? As in the exact same material without a lot of the marketing behind it? I think you may have chosen your metaphor more wisely than you realised there.

A better polished version of The Secret minus the utter daftness of same.

From what I've read of The Secret the two are completely different beasts.

Ditto with getting into your own head. Even talented people can come asunder. Quite a number of great philosophers went nuts(clinical term). So some caution is advised IMHO.

Well, Tolle is encouraging you to get out of your head not into it. To reduce the amount of clutter and unnecessary thought. Navel-gazing can be counter productive to that. He's saying a lot of the thinking you do every day is unnecessary and probably quite negative; if you just sit back and observe you will notice this and you may even begin to reduce the amount of it through the "simple" act of observing it.

Earthhorse

ygolometsipe wrote: »

how much is the book then?

Around 10 euro as Scanlas said. As for why it's worth reading? Well, as I said earlier in the thread I think the question and answer style he writes in is a really good way of breaking down some of the mental barriers people will put up when reading on such a subject matter. I found it a really cool read anyway and it added a lot to how I deal with negative and unnecessary thoughts.

That's a totally subjective thing obviously, you might not need as much help in that area or find the style overly repetitive or something.

ygolometsipe

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

About 10 euro id say.

:eek: - thats expensive, I'll pass thanks!

ygolometsipe

Earthhorse wrote: »

Around 10 euro as Scanlas said. As for why it's worth reading? Well, as I said earlier in the thread I think the question and answer style he writes in is a really good way of breaking down some of the mental barriers people will put up when reading on such a subject matter. I found it a really cool read anyway and it added a lot to how I deal with negative and unnecessary thoughts.

That's a totally subjective thing obviously, you might not need as much help in that area or find the style overly repetitive or something.

I just wanted to know how much your man is making from the book.
Im glad you liked it tho. not my cup of tea.

Earthhorse

Well, the book has sold over a million copies worldwide so I'd say the answer is "quite a lot". Of course, he only gets a percentage of each book sold but I'm sure he's doing alright for himself. He couldn't have known that would happen when he wrote the book though.

Red21

ygolometsipe wrote: »

I just wanted to know how much your man is making from the book.
Im glad you liked it tho. not my cup of tea.

why are you concerned about the profits of this particular book?

ygolometsipe

Red21 wrote: »

why are you concerned about the profits of this particular book?

I'm concerned about all profits of everything.

the keen edge

Earthhorse wrote: »

Yellow pack? As in the exact same material without a lot of the marketing behind it? I think you may have chosen your metaphor more wisely than you realised there.

Brilliant.

In fact all that post was an excellent response.

BraziliaNZ

I really like his stuff, really helped me through a difficult period last year. I think he comes across as very genuine, a very warm person and quite funny too. I could watch him all day. Good article/interview here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/apr/11/eckhart-tolle-interview-spirituality

Wibbs

Earthhorse wrote: »

Yellow pack? As in the exact same material without a lot of the marketing behind it?

No, more like really low quality tat masquerading as a bargain. To be far to Tolle his stuff is better than the majority of tat found in the self help genre.

From what I've read of The Secret the two are completely different beasts.

Sorry I meant more aimed at the same audience. Those suffering chronically from notsureiftheyrereallyfulfilleditis. The Oprah sofa set.

Well, Tolle is encouraging you to get out of your head not into it. To reduce the amount of clutter and unnecessary thought. Navel-gazing can be counter productive to that. He's saying a lot of the thinking you do every day is unnecessary and probably quite negative; if you just sit back and observe you will notice this and you may even begin to reduce the amount of it through the "simple" act of observing it.

Which is a good thing, however I have found those in most need of doing exactly that, tend to go down the navel gazing rabbit hole while attempting to do so. Not Tolles fault of course.

Plus I find people who actually live like/follow this stuff to be among the most boring people you could meet. Then again I prefer a little bit of edginess in people.

Earthhorse

Wibbs wrote: »

No, more like really low quality tat masquerading as a bargain. To be far to Tolle his stuff is better than the majority of tat found in the self help genre.

Well, forget about the others because we're really talking about Tolle in this thread. In what way is TPON low quality tat? What would you regard as high quality tat, or non tat, in the same field?

Sorry I meant more aimed at the same audience. Those suffering chronically from notsureiftheyrereallyfulfilleditis. The Oprah sofa set.

Well, as the saying goes, an idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. Oprah came across Tolle and decided he had a message she felt was worthy of spreading. So I don't think Tolle aimed for this market at all, how could he? He just happened to get an endorsement from someone who has a heavy following in that "set" and it's no harm that they are exposed to ideas that may help them.

Which is a good thing, however I have found those in most need of doing exactly that, tend to go down the navel gazing rabbit hole while attempting to do so. Not Tolles fault of course.

Plus I find people who actually live like/follow this stuff to be among the most boring people you could meet. Then again I prefer a little bit of edginess in people.

That's as may be; like you say, people can misinterpret the message but I highly doubt that these people were madly interesting before reading Tolle, in that case, and if they did lose an edge of anxiety or whatever that made them appeared more interesting, good for them.

dyer

I read TPON a few years ago and found it extremely helpful.. having had a long history of depression it gave me knowledge that helped me overcome it. I know some people have read the book and found it made no sense or even completely meaningless, that doesn't mean there's nothing to it. I believe if i had read the book a few years earlier i probably wouldn't have understood it either.. but i happened to be in a particular place in my life where it did make sense. I certainly don't mean this in a bad way, but i think it takes a certain amount of personal development, growth and maturity before the lessons in this book can be realised, so don't discount it outright if it doesn't help you now.. because some day it might.

I study psychology and practice meditation.. many of the things being taught in the book are quite similar in ways.. in fact in cognitive therapy most of the emphasis is put on bringing awareness to one's own negative thoughts and how these patterns affect mood etc, but is completely removed from the subconscious and underlying awareness of the ego, which is why other humanistic fields in psychology have developed. Most people who receive these kinds of therapies usually relapse unless they have practiced some form of meditation or mindfulness techniques. These can help focus on the internal, or the 'I' that is so often referred to, that exists behind the ego.

When you are closer to that internal self, the ego and self destructive thoughts and thought patterns no longer have the power to dictate your habits or your moods. It can be extremely confusing to make that seperation at first, to understand that you really aren't your thoughts, but when you do understand it, it makes perfect sense and can have a profound influence on the way you live your life. In fact, the world would be a much better place if more people realised this, and that in itself can't be a bad thing.

Wibbs

Earthhorse wrote: »

Well, forget about the others because we're really talking about Tolle in this thread. In what way is TPON low quality tat? What would you regard as high quality tat, or non tat, in the same field?

I did say his stuff is better than the average out there in this self help universe. However it's a rehash and oversimplification of more rounded debates/theologies/philosophies that went before. It' an extension of a lot of the hippie guff coming outa the 60's and 70's. "Living in the now" and the "death of the ego" and "you're not your thoughts"(eh yea luv you are, you're just playing mental semantics here) stuff was lapped up by the counterculture, though usually translated through western impatience and quick fix mentality. One whack of blotter acid and "oh it's all moments maaaaan". Now all this sounds great in theory and may work if you're a monk living a monkish life in a distant valley in Somewhereistan. In practical reality it's quite simplistic and not so much in a good way. Yes one should be mindful of the now, but the now is not the isolated state your hippie tends to think. Yes many of us do get bogged down by the fear/thoughts of the future and the past, especially the latter and that's one extreme of dodgy thinking.

I would argue that the power of the now types go to the other extreme. I would be of the opinion that what's outa whack in both is the lack of balance. Sure your Tolle's and such can certainly appear more balanced, but I would argue that this stuff taken to the conclusion he suggests is anything but balanced. I mean the buddha after he got enlightened was waaaay out there in internal spiritual balance, but still wasn't the sharpest axe in the toolshed when dealing with the wife and kids he left to seek his spiritual fortune(I use spiritual not in the strictly theistic sense of course). Basically after all the Ommmmmm's die down you're still gonna have to plan to pay bills and take the dog for a walk etc. From what I've read on Buddhist folks who have reached that state or near that state after many years is the many more years it takes to integrate that into the rest of ones life. That's the hard part.

Well, as the saying goes, an idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. Oprah came across Tolle and decided he had a message she felt was worthy of spreading. So I don't think Tolle aimed for this market at all, how could he? He just happened to get an endorsement from someone who has a heavy following in that "set" and it's no harm that they are exposed to ideas that may help them.

My contention is that it helps them a lot less than they may think. Like diet books for the soul. There are more diets and diet books out there than ever before, yet people are still getting fatter and fatter. I would contend much the same with your flick the switch, buy the DVD path to enlightenment. People may lose spiritual weight at first, usually because their spiritual diet was so shíte in the first place, but down the line will likely pile it all back on again and more.

That's as may be; like you say, people can misinterpret the message but I highly doubt that these people were madly interesting before reading Tolle, in that case, and if they did lose an edge of anxiety or whatever that made them appeared more interesting, good for them.

God I dunno. To quote steddyeddy from another post on here, there is the danger of "Take away my demons and you take away my angels".

Earthhorse

Wibbs wrote: »

I did say his stuff is better than the average out there in this self help universe. However it's a rehash and oversimplification of more rounded debates/theologies/philosophies that went before. It' an extension of a lot of the hippie guff coming outa the 60's and 70's.

Okay so, what are better reading materials from that era so?

"Living in the now" and the "death of the ego" and "you're not your thoughts"(eh yea luv you are, you're just playing mental semantics here) stuff was lapped up by the counterculture, though usually translated through western impatience and quick fix mentality.

I disagree that it's just mental semantics but an important distinction between what you think and who you are. That is, trying to break down the investment people have in their opinions, that they put so much of themselves into them they can't afford to proven wrong on any point because if they were it'd their very selves that were wrong and not just a case of them holding an incorrect opinion.

In practical reality it's quite simplistic and not so much in a good way. Yes one should be mindful of the now, but the now is not the isolated state your hippie tends to think.

In what way is it not the isolated state your hippy tends to think? Or, perhaps I should ask, how isolated do you think hippy's think it is?

Basically after all the Ommmmmm's die down you're still gonna have to plan to pay bills and take the dog for a walk etc. From what I've read on Buddhist folks who have reached that state or near that state after many years is the many more years it takes to integrate that into the rest of ones life. That's the hard part.

Sure. He talks about this in the book; the difference between clocktime and psychological time. The former is a practical necessity in living day to day life; meeting people, holding a job etc. and the latter is usually unnecessary dwelling on past failures or worry about a future that may or may not come to pass.

My contention is that it helps them a lot less than they may think. Like diet books for the soul. There are more diets and diet books out there than ever before, yet people are still getting fatter and fatter. I would contend much the same with your flick the switch, buy the DVD path to enlightenment. People may lose spiritual weight at first, usually because their spiritual diet was so shíte in the first place, but down the line will likely pile it all back on again and more.

That's a nice analogy but the yo-yo nature of diets which tends to make people go back to over-eating with a vengance doesn't have an equivalent in the spiritual word that I'm aware of. People exposed to ideas like presence or mindfulness may or may not find them useful tools in their lives but they don't tend to adapt them and then go back to an even more mentally frustrated state than they had been in before.

God I dunno. To quote steddyeddy from another post on here, there is the danger of "Take away my demons and you take away my angels".

Well, we'll have to disagree. I've never believed in that whole "for a thing to exist it must have it's opposite" guff. A relationship between a person's angels and demons only exists in their head.

fenris

Lads - the chap found a hammer now all of his problems look like nails and will for a while, let him enjoy it while it lasts.

It is only human to want to share something that works for you in the hope that it might work for someone else in the same place.

It might be worth putting together a list of hammers to save the scrabbling about and if we are really bored then we can try and put them in order, maybe even call them levels and give some psychological tests to let people know what level they should start at :-)

In no particular order:

The Power of Now
Tony Robbins - Personal Power
The Celestine Prophecy
The Silva method of mind control
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Dune
The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
Barefoot Doctor
Tony Robbins - Blackadder

dyer

I don't understand your arguement Wibbs, you're taking things out of context here. Nobody is talking about spiritual enlightenment and I don't see how trying to better yourself by trying to understand what makes us who we are, makes you a hippy either. I don't consider myself, 'a power of now type' and hopefully, not too 'boring' .. the book has some useful information, some of it i don't agree with, but it's about what you can take from it that matters. I payed 10euro it.. but how that affected my way of life is worth infinitely more. I'm not trying to become a Buddha or start levitating any time soon, i just want to become a better person in myself, to grow and explore myself fully as a human being.

You mentioned self-help and diet books and lumped them all into the same pot, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The reason they don't work is because they are all cognitively and intellectually based.. they ignore the ego, which is what TPON is trying to teach us how to acknowledge. You can't kill the ego or your so called animal instincts because it is a fundamental part of who we are and we certainly couldn't survive without it, but you can learn to be stronger than what it represents by not allowing yourself or your life to be controlled by it.

Does it really matter, from which book, person or language, you learn this important message?

Dyr

Never trust a man who looks like a film nazi

eckhart tolle:

http://media1.break.com/breakstudios/2011/12/15/major%20toht%20raiders%20of%20the%20lost%20ark.jpg


baddie from raiders of the lost ark

http://b.vimeocdn.com/ps/179/179675_300.jpg

Mr.Biscuits

Regurgitated drivel.

Dangerous drivel in fact but has made many an onoxious cnut millions over the years.

It's dangerous because if someone is depressed and (or has mental and physical problems of another kind) this kind of crap can make them blame themselves. I have seen many friends over the years, with all sorts of health problems (usually which turn out to have physical causes when they found the right practitioner) that tried to implement this kind of shite into their lives, and without exception, it made them worse, as it drove them inwards and they became more self aware. Long after their physical problems were sorted, the mind fcuk of this stuff remains in one or two of them.

Our own Tony Quinn made a large large fortune running these courses for Irish people, with the usual 'how what you focus on, you create' and for €50 a week, they show you how to change that process, but it's isn't natural - it's a VIOLENT act when it's done in this way.

What people should be thaught is not to care about what their mind does, as it is controlled by a myriad of chemical processes and when you are healthy, you will naturally focus on the positive and not worry so much about the negative but when you are ill, you won't. A simple flu can turn the most positive person into a gibbering wreck that is crying and worrying non-stop about things they couldn't have cared less about the week before and won't again a week later.

So, if you are ill with a thyroid complaint (for example) then your mind is going at a hundred mile an hour or a snail's pace (usually with negative nonsense that the person will disportionately put weight to regarding issues in their life) and someone in such a state attempting to adopt these teachings could end up cracking up, as they will feel that they are in part responsible for their current state.

Louise L. hay was one of the first of these spiritual vampires who spouted this guff (making millions in the process of course) and I honestly think she caused more misery than Hitler. The kind of junk she had people believing wrecks peoples heads and while I think that a person's state of mind has undoubtedly has an effect on their health, I think it's overrated and grossly exaggerated.

What's far more important is actually to do the opposite of this and tell people to not give two fcuks what they think from one moment to the next. To not care about either negative or positive. Anything else will just cause anxiety for people and they will end up fearing their own thoughts. Fearing that they will focus on the NEGATIVE!!

Simple experiment:

I want you for the next 10 seconds to clear your mind, relax and don't think of a yellow bus.


Everyone just failed - of course.

It's the same with negativity and telling people to live in the "now" - that has a knock on effect of making them fear NOT being in the "now" and so just as you will inevitably think of the above 'yellow bus' - you will inevitably think negatively and so, they have failed - the person is now fears NOT being in the now and will try and force their minds to latch onto the now. This is what I mean by a 'violent act'.

However, the worst aspect to all this is that it can make people think that they are doing something wrong if they can't think in ways they are being advised too and worse, that they are in fact part of the cause of heir own ill-health.

This isn't just the domain of huppy gurus and the like, the psychiatric profession is full of this crap also, they just put a fancy name to it and called it Cognigtive Behavior Therapy - but it's the same animal in different fur, expensive fur.

Anyway, this stuff is junk and does more harm than good in my view. Words and powerful things in the wrong hands and while most can just take or leave this garbage, their are those in society who are vulnerable to this kind of crap and it has the great potential to send them down a road that they will just end up coming back up, in a more confused, hopeless and self analytical and blaming way than they were before, thinking that they are doing/have done something wrong that has been the catalyst for their problems in life.

What all these promoters of this stuff have in common is that they take a truth such as 'positive thinking' (something which of course can yeild benefits) and make it everything (unless they sell supplements also, in which case you need them too).

The greatest tool of a conman is a 'nugget of truth' and that's what these who peddle this inflated crap do when they sell an 'element of truth' (positive thinking) as the holy grail of solving your problems, when it is in fact just a small part of a far bigger picture. Along with having a few positive testimonals, what inevitably happens is that such dogma will also have some devistating effects on people's lives too. People that will put faith in this stuff, invest themselves both mentally and physicailly, usually as a last resort, in it producing results for mental and physical health issues, only for it too make them worse. This stuff is fine and harmless for those to try that are just trying to achieve some business goals etc but it makes my blood boil when it discussed in the arena of a person's mental and physical health.

From Tony Quinn to Tony Quinn - parasites one and all.

dyer

I don't know why you feel so strongly about it but i think your views are just a tad extreme. Sure, some of your statements might be true if you take isolated cases and focus on those alone, but for the most part it's a complete generalisation in the grand scheme of things and I'm sorry you see things that way.

What's far more important is actually to do the opposite of this and tell people to not give two fcuks what they think from one moment to the next. To not care about either negative or positive. Anything else will just cause anxiety for people and they will end up fearing their own thoughts.

Ironically.. this is the exact goal of cognitive behavioural therapy. Of course, it's not that easy in retrospect.. that is why 'therapy' exists. People need time to change and often don't respond well to being told what to do. CBT functions in a manner that allows the individual to realise the effect of how their thinking affects their lives. That is something that has to be experienced in order to be effective.

/out

Nulty

gamgsam wrote: »

The part where he claims that an inner silence exists. Also when he says that by analysing a sunset it immediately loses its beauty.

Throughout the speech he makes huge presuppositions without backing them up at all. In order to follow his logic, you have to accept everything he says as truth. As analogies they are fine but he presents them as rock solid facts. Which they are not.

That said, he's a good speaker and nice to listen to, but I'm lucky enough to know how to be happy without wasting time on abstract thought like this

If it works for you, more power to you

I took that to mean "The whole is greater than the sunn of its parts"

Nulty

Biggins wrote: »

Not really, your girlfriend might have discovered that she don't need his mental stuff to prop her up intellectually, emotionally and validate her way of getting through life.
She is her own person more so and is able to fend for herself without other possible unnecessary rubbish.

For a guy advertising the Irish Democratic Party, you are very undemocratic. :pac:

Nulty

ygolometsipe wrote: »

:eek: - thats expensive, I'll pass thanks!

Expense is measured in value - not price.

(I've never read or bought the book btw. I just resent your ill thought comment)

Nulty

ygolometsipe wrote: »

I'm concerned about all profits of everything.

:pac: - This explains my last quote!

matamoros1965

I would be about the last person to take seriously many of the books usually seen in the self help department but I have to share my experience having read TPON.

Firstly, let me say that I read a decent amount of Philosophy and be quite well versed for a layman. I bought TPON while rambling through a bookshop years ago and having read it, I had what I can only describe as the most calm, serene days of my life for two days after. It's a feeling that I never got back but as a fairly anxious person, it was a huge relief at the time. I'd love to be able to describe it exactly but it was like being on a mild E crossed between the final scene in the Matrix where Neo sees the world as it really is. Sorry, this looks mad on the screen but that's my best shot.

I think that the book is definitely worth a read, there is a fair bit of padding and it's far from academic philosophy but something did happen for me and I'm glad that I picked it up that day.

conor.hogan.2

I would prefer to go to the source, Buddhism.

Red21

The secret, tony robbins, tony quinn even hitler has got a mention in an attempt to stay away from the actual content of a book written by ET, there is a thread in spirituality and buddisim and it's the same story there.

Scanlas The 2nd

I think the unfortunate reality is people see a lot of nonsense in the self help industry so wouldn't consider Eckharte Tolle's work as its assumed to be like the rest.

He's a down to earth guy too which people don't realise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW6-iD713No&sns=em

Scanlas The 2nd

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Regurgitated drivel.

Dangerous drivel in fact but has made many an onoxious cnut millions over the years.

It's dangerous because if someone is depressed and (or has mental and physical problems of another kind) this kind of crap can make them blame themselves. I have seen many friends over the years, with all sorts of health problems (usually which turn out to have physical causes when they found the right practitioner) that tried to implement this kind of shite into their lives, and without exception, it made them worse, as it drove them inwards and they became more self aware. Long after their physical problems were sorted, the mind fcuk of this stuff remains in one or two of them.

Our own Tony Quinn made a large large fortune running these courses for Irish people, with the usual 'how what you focus on, you create' and for €50 a week, they show you how to change that process, but it's isn't natural - it's a VIOLENT act when it's done in this way.

What people should be thaught is not to care about what their mind does, as it is controlled by a myriad of chemical processes and when you are healthy, you will naturally focus on the positive and not worry so much about the negative but when you are ill, you won't. A simple flu can turn the most positive person into a gibbering wreck that is crying and worrying non-stop about things they couldn't have cared less about the week before and won't again a week later.

So, if you are ill with a thyroid complaint (for example) then your mind is going at a hundred mile an hour or a snail's pace (usually with negative nonsense that the person will disportionately put weight to regarding issues in their life) and someone in such a state attempting to adopt these teachings could end up cracking up, as they will feel that they are in part responsible for their current state.

Louise L. hay was one of the first of these spiritual vampires who spouted this guff (making millions in the process of course) and I honestly think she caused more misery than Hitler. The kind of junk she had people believing wrecks peoples heads and while I think that a person's state of mind has undoubtedly has an effect on their health, I think it's overrated and grossly exaggerated.

What's far more important is actually to do the opposite of this and tell people to not give two fcuks what they think from one moment to the next. To not care about either negative or positive. Anything else will just cause anxiety for people and they will end up fearing their own thoughts. Fearing that they will focus on the NEGATIVE!!

Simple experiment:

I want you for the next 10 seconds to clear your mind, relax and don't think of a yellow bus.


Everyone just failed - of course.

It's the same with negativity and telling people to live in the "now" - that has a knock on effect of making them fear NOT being in the "now" and so just as you will inevitably think of the above 'yellow bus' - you will inevitably think negatively and so, they have failed - the person is now fears NOT being in the now and will try and force their minds to latch onto the now. This is what I mean by a 'violent act'.

However, the worst aspect to all this is that it can make people think that they are doing something wrong if they can't think in ways they are being advised too and worse, that they are in fact part of the cause of heir own ill-health.

This isn't just the domain of huppy gurus and the like, the psychiatric profession is full of this crap also, they just put a fancy name to it and called it Cognigtive Behavior Therapy - but it's the same animal in different fur, expensive fur.

Anyway, this stuff is junk and does more harm than good in my view. Words and powerful things in the wrong hands and while most can just take or leave this garbage, their are those in society who are vulnerable to this kind of crap and it has the great potential to send them down a road that they will just end up coming back up, in a more confused, hopeless and self analytical and blaming way than they were before, thinking that they are doing/have done something wrong that has been the catalyst for their problems in life.

What all these promoters of this stuff have in common is that they take a truth such as 'positive thinking' (something which of course can yeild benefits) and make it everything (unless they sell supplements also, in which case you need them too).

The greatest tool of a conman is a 'nugget of truth' and that's what these who peddle this inflated crap do when they sell an 'element of truth' (positive thinking) as the holy grail of solving your problems, when it is in fact just a small part of a far bigger picture. Along with having a few positive testimonals, what inevitably happens is that such dogma will also have some devistating effects on people's lives too. People that will put faith in this stuff, invest themselves both mentally and physicailly, usually as a last resort, in it producing results for mental and physical health issues, only for it too make them worse. This stuff is fine and harmless for those to try that are just trying to achieve some business goals etc but it makes my blood boil when it discussed in the arena of a person's mental and physical health.

From Tony Quinn to Tony Quinn - parasites one and all.

You are very strong in your criticism. Do you know what you are so against? What are the principles Tolle teaches that you disagree with?

matamoros1965

Some people including myself get pretty pissed when they hear some of the meaningless, unprovable stuff that ET and others come out with and you can see why. What we have on Boards are some pretty clued in individuals who apply logic to test those statements made by so called self help practitioners.

For example, nobody could be worse than Deepak Chopra for this, talking about consciousness and quantum mechanics when most well informed people know that Stephen Pinker can't tell you exactly what consciousness is and Richard Feynman's quote about "if you think that you know Quantum Mechanics..." is well known.

It would be great to get past all the BS in self help and actually help someone.

Red21

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I would prefer to go to the source, Buddhism.

Are you saying that people who are capable of worthwhile or true insights where only around thousands of years ago?

Earthhorse

matamoros1965 wrote: »

Some people including myself get pretty pissed when they hear some of the meaningless, unprovable stuff that ET and others come out with and you can see why. What we have on Boards are some pretty clued in individuals who apply logic to test those statements made by so called self help practitioners.

For example, nobody could be worse than Deepak Chopra for this, talking about consciousness and quantum mechanics when most well informed people know that Stephen Pinker can't tell you exactly what consciousness is and Richard Feynman's quote about "if you think that you know Quantum Mechanics..." is well known.

It would be great to get past all the BS in self help and actually help someone.

Do you know what else would be great?

Is if one of the critics of Tolle's teachings actually focused on something he has said and not something Deepak Chopra, Oprah Winfrey, Tony Quinn or any other number of people have said.

matamoros1965

That some minds question things from a logical point of view to find the truth, that is the basis for their analysis of any issue, for example, we can be shown mathematically why the apple falls down from the tree and see it empirically happening. Let all things pass these tests.

His appearance and accent, his tone of voice and vague notions of truth, being and time etc. are not properly or easily explained and that says charlatan straight away to some people.

I've said in a previous post that I found something valuable when I read his book but also I can see why he might not connect with others.