I really want Ireland to be 'fixed'.We live in a great country,its not right.

OMARS_COMING_

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

CrazyRabbit

I have some Duct tape it that helps.

Duckworth_Luas

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

Don't worry, the Irish people are getting ready to reelect Fianna Fáil at the next general election. We'll be back to our normal levels of corruption, stupidity and incompetence by then.

GombeanMan

Vote "No" to the upcoming fiscal compact. If a "Yes" vote is passed. You can kiss Ireland as a Sovreign nation goodbye.

Immaculate Pasta

What exactly did we mess up and why are we broken?

I've heard no talk on any of this sort of thing before

Superbus

Yep.

*rocks awkwardly on feet*

squod

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

We? WTF? I didn't do jack mate. Don't include me in this.

mikom

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

The first step to recovery is through regular use of the space bar.

syklops

GombeanMan wrote: »

Vote "No" to the upcoming fiscal compact. If a "Yes" vote is passed. You can kiss Ireland as a Sovreign nation goodbye.

Gombeen is right.

lividduck

GombeanMan wrote: »

Vote "No" to the upcoming fiscal compact. If a "Yes" vote is passed. You can kiss Ireland as a Sovreign nation goodbye.

gombeen comment, the fiscal compact doesn't affect the very limited soverigty that we as a small open economy can ever have.

lividduck

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Don't worry, the Irish people are getting ready to reelect Fianna Fáil at the next general election. We'll be back to our normal levels of corruption, stupidity and incompetence by then.

Judging by the behaviour of the Fg/lab mob we never lost our appetite for corruption, incompetence, or parish pump politics.

swingking

Well I can't believe that snake Ahern showed up at the ff ard dheis. He should be strung by the balls :mad:

squod

swingking wrote: »

Well I can't believe that snake Ahern showed up at the ff ard dheis. He should be strung by the balls :mad:

Cowen first, then every complicit member of the dept of finance.

connundrum

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I have some Duct tape it that helps.

I remember being a kid, thinking that this was the cruellest of tapes available. The poor ducks ffs.

That was back in poor, 'unbroken' Ireland. Ah the good times

GombeanMan

syklops wrote: »

Gombeen is right.

It's a shame the Czechs and British were the only countries with sense to oppose draconian legislation. I have read all 11 pages. It uses dodgy, vague terms like "European Stability Mechanism" and "Growth Pact". If you read between the lines, these term basically mean more legalized theft on behalf of the Troika/IMF/EU. Sovereignty is the most important cornerstone for any country. Take it away, it becomes a non country. This is another large step in that dangerous direction.

GombeanMan

lividduck wrote: »

gombeen comment, the fiscal compact doesn't affect the very limited soverigty that we as a small open economy can ever have.

Limited, yes. But limited is better than none. If we still wanted to trade within the Eurozone and reap the benefits of the economic +'s, we could simply join EFTA. Granted, that would lead to no more bailouts, but that would not be a bad thing. Sometimes you gotta face up to reality sooner than later.

lividduck

GombeanMan wrote: »

It's a shame the Czechs and British were the only countries with sense to oppose draconian legislation. I have read all 11 pages. It uses dodgy, vague terms like "European Stability Mechanism" and "Growth Pact". If you read between the lines, these term basically mean more legalized theft on behalf of the Troika/IMF/EU. Sovereignty is the most important cornerstone for any country. Take it away, it becomes a non country. This is another large step in that dangerous direction.

They are not vague terms, they refer to specific systems. As for "If you read between the lines" that is just another way of saying "I need to make something up, because the facts are against me".
When did we ever have soverignty? we used Sterling as our currency until we joined the EMS, now we depend on others to lend us cheap money.

Eric Cartman

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

Socialism, dole scroungers, bailing out banks , suspended sentances for violent crimes , everyone becoming too PC to target the causes of most of the crimes.

GombeanMan

lividduck wrote: »

They are not vague terms, they refer to specific systems. As for "If you read between the lines" that is just another way of saying "I need to make something up, because the facts are against me".
When did we ever have soverignty? we used Sterling as our currency until we joined the EMS, now we depend on others to lend us cheap money.

Specific, failing systems. I won't argue with you, you are entitled not to agree with me. The most basic fact I base my argument upon is simple: The economy of the wider EU is chaotic at best. Why should I believe these People can bring stability over the next year or so, when the last 5 years have been nothing but a nightmare, fiscally speaking? Cheap, poorly regulated ECB credit is the root cause of all this misery. At least from my own research.

Atlantic Dawn

The country has a debt bill of over $500,000 per person, the only saviour is the vast oil and gas fields off our shores but these are being given away for a paltry 12.5% corporation tax. Rarely does a country get a 2nd chance, this is ours.

120_Minutes

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

.How did it ever get so bad.

In the 90's, for the first time in the history of the state, we got money.

then we got greedy, self important and self absorbed.


sadly, i doubt we've learned anything. its bound to happen again.

squod

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has a debt bill of over $500,000 per person, the only saviour is the vast oil and gas fields off our shores but these are being given away for a paltry 12.5% corporation tax. Rarely does a country get a 2nd chance, this is ours.

Wind pumped hydro. We don't need outside help for that. The solution everyone wants to ignore.

wendell borton

You know what the trouble is, OP? We used to make **** in this country, build ****. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket.

OMARS_COMING_

120_Minutes wrote: »

In the 90's, for the first time in the history of the state, we got money.

then we got greedy, self important and self absorbed.


sadly, i doubt we've learned anything. its bound to happen again.

Considering that recessions happen every few years anyway looking back in history,isnt it fair to day that we havent learnt from past mistakes and its just like a vicious circle?

GombeanMan

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Considering that recessions happen every few years anyway looking back in history,isnt it fair to day that we havent learnt from past mistakes and its just like a vicious circle?

This recession is nothing like the previous ones. The Great Depression is the closest reference point in my mind. This recession appears partly engineered to me. Debt is not an indication of actual value, just a bunch of numbers used to enslve people. How much gold or other metals is really behind the euro? Not too much I am guessing. Back to the gold standard I say.

ThinkAboutIt

If you don't listen to the news, you won't notice anything is "broken," go out and live life and forget about everyone else's moaning, don't let them bring you down.

mikemac1

120_Minutes wrote: »

then we got greedy, self important and self absorbed.

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.

Sorry lads

I didn't realize I'd sold out my country and brought it to ruin

What's this "we"

lividduck

mikemac1 wrote: »

Sorry lads

I didn't realize I'd sold out my country and brought it to ruin

What's this "we"

Enda says you did with your "madness, madness I say, all mad mad mad":D

GombeanMan

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Don't worry, the Irish people are getting ready to reelect Fianna Fáil at the next general election. We'll be back to our normal levels of corruption, stupidity and incompetence by then.

If Fianna Fail EVER gets into power again, I am jumping ship for much longer:D

GombeanMan

mikemac1 wrote: »

Our leader Bertie Ahern resigns

Country enters downward spiral soon afterwards

Coincidence??? I think not

Come back Bertie, all is forgiven.

It was just "resting" in his account:)

ItsAWindUp

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Socialism, dole scroungers, bailing out banks , suspended sentances for violent crimes , everyone becoming too PC to target the causes of most of the crimes.

Eh, what socialism was that then?

120_Minutes

mikemac1 wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

then we got greedy, self important and self absorbed.

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.

Sorry lads

I didn't realize I'd sold out my country and brought it to ruin

What's this "we"

A lot of the populace once they got a few quid also got an inflated sense of entitlement. The "me" decade happened everywhere else in the 80s, for us it was the mid 90s onward.

Celly Smunt

Can't we all just buy a union flag and get along?

TheZohanS

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.

Well we didn't mess up but we were certainly complacent. Now if anyone says that they didn't buy property yadda yadda and that you've had nothing to do with the mess we're in then I disagree. The property bubble had a knock on effect for everyone, it generated cash in the economy and every single person benefited as a result. Taxes were historically low, employment was high and even those on unemployment benefit had higher payments.

We may not have partied as much as property developers or the like but we certainly benefited in some way or another.

Doc Ruby

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has a debt bill of over $500,000 per person, the only saviour is the vast oil and gas fields off our shores but these are being given away for a paltry 12.5% corporation tax. Rarely does a country get a 2nd chance, this is ours.

There's just nothing correct in that comment. I mean factually right, not correct in the opinion sense. Ireland's public debt is not two trillion dollars and the royalties which are not the same as corporation tax are low because there aren't huge oil fields off our coast.

lividduck wrote: »

When did we ever have soverignty? we used Sterling as our currency until we joined the EMS, now we depend on others to lend us cheap money.

Sovereignty isn't a matter of loans and debts. If we wanted to tell everyone to feck off we could, and nobody could stop us, that is sovereignty. The side effects might be unpleasant mind you, like trade sanctions, but there it is.

pmcmahon wrote: »

Can't we all just buy a union flag and get along?

I've enough bogroll thanks.

KeithAFC

It does seem to be a right mess in the Irish Republic. Could be decades before you recover. Elections will not make any difference because the damage has been done it seems. Just a question of seeing out the storm as they say.

dxhound2005

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

It's not so bad, I just looked out the window and everything seems OK. Things were a lot worse in this country in the past.

Liam Byrne

squod wrote: »

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

We? WTF? I didn't do jack mate. Don't include me in this.

Exactly! And at least we're allowed to point this out in AH (unlike elsewhere)

Eric Cartman

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Eh, what socialism was that then?

the wasted government money and bloat of the whole civil service in trying to have the government control everything and keeping semi-state bodies alive.

Bailing out the banks and the scroungers.

Killer Wench

I think that should be "Omar's Coming Y'all".

Laisurg

We clearly don't live in a great country! I'd call it an ok country at best tbh.... It got this bad by voting in shítty governments that get worse each time and having a general ''I don't like this, but I will never ever try do anything about it'' attitude.

btard

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

We were never on our feet to start with. We had a few years of boom based on free credit is all. We are back to our normal state of high taxes, unemployment and emigration. Don't waste your time waiting for light at the end of the tunnel. The place was always a ****hole and always will be.


inb4 the usual 'if you don't like it leave morons'

dotsman

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Eh, what socialism was that then?

Where do we start...

• How about the ridiculously high minimum wage. Many employers warned that they would not be able to afford to stay in business or employ as many people, the economists warned that it would lead to huge inflation, resulting in Ireland becoming a very expensive country. The socialists laughed and, not only introduced minimum wage into Ireland, but subsequently increased it by 60% over just a few years.
• How about the public sector. Far too much to go into here, but in a nutshell - Trade unions squeezing as much money out of everybody's pockets to fund their members with no attempt to actually provide a service deserving of the money that's pumped into it.
• The fact that in 2006, a young unskilled worker with little motivation or work ethic, providing no economic output (in fact, very much driving the bubble) was being paid a lot more than a young highly skilled, hard-working, ambitious worker.
• Socialists even decided that we should greatly increase social welfare payments throughout the boom, despite there being no real need for anybody to be on the likes of Jobseekers etc.

Ultimately, the socialist economic policies of the FF dominated government resulted in the massive rise in inflation fuelling the boom, the hugely overpriced, yet very inefficient public sector, the massive lack of skilled people (ie the unemployable) now queuing at the dole offices, and a social welfare bill we cannot afford.

GombeanMan

Not to mention, the EU is a left wing creation. They can't even manage money properly. It's a joke.

lividduck

dotsman wrote: »

Where do we start...

• How about the ridiculously high minimum wage. Many employers warned that they would not be able to afford to stay in business or employ as many people, the economists warned that it would lead to huge inflation, resulting in Ireland becoming a very expensive country. The socialists laughed and, not only introduced minimum wage into Ireland, but subsequently increased it by 60% over just a few years.
• How about the public sector. Far too much to go into here, but in a nutshell - Trade unions squeezing as much money out of everybody's pockets to fund their members with no attempt to actually provide a service deserving of the money that's pumped into it.
• The fact that in 2006, a young unskilled worker with little motivation or work ethic, providing no economic output (in fact, very much driving the bubble) was being paid a lot more than a young highly skilled, hard-working, ambitious worker.
• Socialists even decided that we should greatly increase social welfare payments throughout the boom, despite there being no real need for anybody to be on the likes of Jobseekers etc.

Ultimately, the socialist economic policies of the FF dominated government resulted in the massive rise in inflation fuelling the boom, the hugely overpriced, yet very inefficient public sector, the massive lack of skilled people (ie the unemployable) now queuing at the dole offices, and a social welfare bill we cannot afford.

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

Chuck Stone

This is why we can't have nice things.

GombeanMan

lividduck wrote: »

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

The Doctor has also gone through years of medical school and college, not to mention 100,000 euro and upwards in loans for that schooling. The minimum wage artifically cuts out a large sector of people who could work for very little, build some track record, then earn more increases. This creates a situation whereby you can command better wages, because if not, the guy down the street will. Minimum wage schemes hurt profits. The minimum wage does nothing to encourage hard work. Rent is also artificially high as a result of Government interference in the market. Socialism again at work. If they just removed 80% of the regulations out there, we would probably be able to cut prices across the board for everyone.

dotsman

lividduck wrote: »

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

And why do you think it costs €50 to see a doctor? Why do you think it costs €600 for rent? Why do you think Ireland is so expensive (when, just 20 years ago it was very cheap)

Minimum wage is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People on it (or near it) think, "great, another increase, I'm going to have more money (for doing nothing)!", whereas the reality is that some of them will simply lose their jobs because of it, while the rest, although receiving the increase, will quickly notice a matching increase in the cost of living, thus it has an overall negative impact on the economy.

Nodin

dotsman wrote: »

And why do you think it costs €50 to see a doctor? Why do you think it costs €600 for rent? Why do you think Ireland is so expensive (when, just 20 years ago it was very cheap)

Minimum wage is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People on it (or near it) think, "great, another increase, I'm going to have more money (for doing nothing)!",............

...or 'Great, I'm finally getting half-decent pay for what I'm doing, as oppossed to being shafted'

themandan6611

shame Jim died, i bet he'd fix it

dotsman

Nodin wrote: »

...or 'Great, I'm finally getting half-decent pay for what I'm doing, as oppossed to being shafted'

Interesting terminology. If you fell you are being shafted, why not upskill and earn a higher wage? It's a free country - nobody is forcing you to be unskilled.